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Re: Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades

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  Re: Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades Victor Sudakov <vas@sibptus.ru> - 2020-05-12 07:00 +0200
    Re: Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades Keifer Bly <keifer.bly@gmail.com> - 2020-05-12 07:30 +0200
      Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2020-05-13 15:10 +0200
    Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2020-05-12 08:20 +0200
      Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades Keifer Bly <keifer.bly@gmail.com> - 2020-05-12 08:30 +0200
        Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades l0f4r0@tuta.io - 2020-05-12 11:10 +0200
          Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-05-12 12:10 +0200
            Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades l0f4r0@tuta.io - 2020-05-12 12:20 +0200
            Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-05-12 16:40 +0200
              Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-05-12 17:10 +0200
                Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2020-05-12 17:20 +0200
                Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2020-05-13 05:10 +0200
                  Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades Keifer Bly <keifer.bly@gmail.com> - 2020-05-13 06:40 +0200
                    Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades l0f4r0@tuta.io - 2020-05-13 10:00 +0200
                      Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-05-13 10:20 +0200
                  Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2020-05-13 06:50 +0200
          Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades Keifer Bly <keifer.bly@gmail.com> - 2020-05-13 03:20 +0200
        Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-05-12 13:50 +0200
          Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-05-12 14:00 +0200
          Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2020-05-12 14:00 +0200
          Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-05-12 18:00 +0200
            Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades John Covici <covici@ccs.covici.com> - 2020-05-12 21:30 +0200
              Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-05-12 22:50 +0200
                Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades John Covici <covici@ccs.covici.com> - 2020-05-12 23:50 +0200
                  Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades l0f4r0@tuta.io - 2020-05-13 00:20 +0200

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#222398 — Re: Re: Question on Unattended Upgrades

Keifer Bly wrote:
>    So upon doing that, I am seeing this:

Please don't use graphics where you could have shown plain text. Not
everyone here is using a graphical mail client.

> 
>    Does this mean it is updating these automatically? 

Look for lines matching "Commandline: /usr/bin/unattended-upgrade" in
the log. Text under those lines would inform you what unattended-upgrade
did automatically. Use 

grep -A3 unattended-upgrade /var/log/apt/history.log


> Does the OS need to be restarted for this to take effect? Thx.

That depends. If the kernel has been upgraded, then probably yes. 

If some daemon has been upgraded, it could be enough to restart the
daemon (or does apt restart it for you automatically? I'm not sure).

If some user utility has been upgraded, then reboot is not required.

-- 
Victor Sudakov,  VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
2:5005/49@fidonet http://vas.tomsk.ru/

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#222399

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Is there a way to configure it to automatically restart when a package that
needs to be restarted is upgraded? Thx.

--Keifer


<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon>
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<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:15 PM Keifer Bly <keifer.bly@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is there a way to configure it to automatically restart when a package
> that needs to be restarted is upgraded? Thx.
> --Keifer
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link>
> <#m_-4773324396636007474_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:55 PM Victor Sudakov <vas@sibptus.ru> wrote:
>
>> Keifer Bly wrote:
>> >    So upon doing that, I am seeing this:
>>
>> Please don't use graphics where you could have shown plain text. Not
>> everyone here is using a graphical mail client.
>>
>> >
>> >    Does this mean it is updating these automatically?
>>
>> Look for lines matching "Commandline: /usr/bin/unattended-upgrade" in
>> the log. Text under those lines would inform you what unattended-upgrade
>> did automatically. Use
>>
>> grep -A3 unattended-upgrade /var/log/apt/history.log
>>
>>
>> > Does the OS need to be restarted for this to take effect? Thx.
>>
>> That depends. If the kernel has been upgraded, then probably yes.
>>
>> If some daemon has been upgraded, it could be enough to restart the
>> daemon (or does apt restart it for you automatically? I'm not sure).
>>
>> If some user utility has been upgraded, then reboot is not required.
>>
>> --
>> Victor Sudakov,  VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
>> 2:5005/49@fidonet http://vas.tomsk.ru/
>>
>>

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#222457

On 12.05.20 07:25, Keifer Bly wrote:
> Is there a way to configure it to automatically restart when a package 
> that needs to be restarted is upgraded? Thx.

Restarting might not be needed at all if applying some "live patching" 
mechanism. It might not be helpful for you, but I thought to mention it 
for the sake of completeness.
Searching online quickly let find several solution providers, and my 
impression it that setting it up and running it is not as trivial and 
fast as simply taking your time to (manually or automatically) trigger a 
reboot for a few systems. The benefit might come for bigger server 
farms, though.
Gene Heskett some 2 years ago nicely considered about it here on the list:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2018/06/msg00702.html

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#222400

On Tue, 12 May 2020 11:54:48 +0700
Victor Sudakov <vas@sibptus.ru> wrote:

> > Does the OS need to be restarted for this to take effect? Thx.  
> 
> That depends. If the kernel has been upgraded, then probably yes. 
> 
> If some daemon has been upgraded, it could be enough to restart the
> daemon (or does apt restart it for you automatically? I'm not sure).
> 
> If some user utility has been upgraded, then reboot is not required.

One way to tell if a restart is required is to run needrestart.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#222401

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Is there a way to configure it to automatically restart when a package that
needs to be restarted is upgraded? Thx.
--Keifer


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:14 PM Charles Curley <
charlescurley@charlescurley.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 12 May 2020 11:54:48 +0700
> Victor Sudakov <vas@sibptus.ru> wrote:
>
> > > Does the OS need to be restarted for this to take effect? Thx.
> >
> > That depends. If the kernel has been upgraded, then probably yes.
> >
> > If some daemon has been upgraded, it could be enough to restart the
> > daemon (or does apt restart it for you automatically? I'm not sure).
> >
> > If some user utility has been upgraded, then reboot is not required.
>
> One way to tell if a restart is required is to run needrestart.
>
> --
> Does anybody read signatures any more?
>
> https://charlescurley.com
> https://charlescurley.com/blog/
>
>

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#222406

Hi,

12 mai 2020 à 08:22 de keifer.bly@gmail.com:

> Is there a way to configure it to automatically restart when a package that needs to be restarted is upgraded?
>
I think 'Unattended-Upgrade::Automatic-Reboot "true";' should do it in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades.
If I were you, I would check /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades as well because those are the 2 most important configuration files for unattended-upgrades.

Best regards,
l0f4r0

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#222407

On Tuesday 12 May 2020 05:07:04 l0f4r0@tuta.io wrote:

> Hi,
>
> 12 mai 2020 à 08:22 de keifer.bly@gmail.com:
> > Is there a way to configure it to automatically restart when a
> > package that needs to be restarted is upgraded?
>
> I think 'Unattended-Upgrade::Automatic-Reboot "true";' should do it
> in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades. If I were you, I would
> check /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades as well because those are
> the 2 most important configuration files for unattended-upgrades.
>
> Best regards,
> l0f4r0

I can see a major disaster in the making, what if that reboot was 
commanded in the middle of your nightly backup run, leaving your backup 
program with a totally bogus database it cannot recover from?

Frankly the update shouldn't be allowed if your backup is actually 
running.  So it might be safer to schedule the update and reboot if 
needed before the backup starts.  That means one cron driven script does 
it all in the sequence desired.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#222409

Hi,

12 mai 2020 à 12:03 de gheskett@shentel.net:

> I can see a major disaster in the making, what if that reboot was 
> commanded in the middle of your nightly backup run, leaving your backup 
> program with a totally bogus database it cannot recover from?
>
> Frankly the update shouldn't be allowed if your backup is actually 
> running.  So it might be safer to schedule the update and reboot if 
> needed before the backup starts.  That means one cron driven script does 
> it all in the sequence desired.
>
Of course, nice reminder from Gene, as usual technology doesn't replace common sense ;)
Binaries simply execute what you ask them to, they don't see the whole picture and what you really intend to do eventually... 

Best regards,
l0f4r0

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#222417

On Tue, 12 May 2020 06:03:52 -0400
Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:

> On Tuesday 12 May 2020 05:07:04 l0f4r0@tuta.io wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > 12 mai 2020 à 08:22 de keifer.bly@gmail.com:
> > > Is there a way to configure it to automatically restart when a
> > > package that needs to be restarted is upgraded?
> >
> > I think 'Unattended-Upgrade::Automatic-Reboot "true";' should do it
> > in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades. If I were you, I would
> > check /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades as well because those are
> > the 2 most important configuration files for unattended-upgrades.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > l0f4r0
> 
> I can see a major disaster in the making, what if that reboot was 
> commanded in the middle of your nightly backup run, leaving your backup 
> program with a totally bogus database it cannot recover from?

That would be unfortunate - but surely a serious backup program would
be designed to be robust enough that ending up "with a totally bogus
database it cannot recover from" should never happen? What if you
have some sort of system crash during a backup? Do you have a specific
backup system in mind?

> Frankly the update shouldn't be allowed if your backup is actually 
> running.  So it might be safer to schedule the update and reboot if 
> needed before the backup starts.  That means one cron driven script does 
> it all in the sequence desired.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

Celejar

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#222418

On Tuesday 12 May 2020 10:30:04 Celejar wrote:

> On Tue, 12 May 2020 06:03:52 -0400
>
> Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:
> > On Tuesday 12 May 2020 05:07:04 l0f4r0@tuta.io wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > 12 mai 2020 à 08:22 de keifer.bly@gmail.com:
> > > > Is there a way to configure it to automatically restart when a
> > > > package that needs to be restarted is upgraded?
> > >
> > > I think 'Unattended-Upgrade::Automatic-Reboot "true";' should do
> > > it in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades. If I were you, I
> > > would check /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades as well because
> > > those are the 2 most important configuration files for
> > > unattended-upgrades.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > l0f4r0
> >
> > I can see a major disaster in the making, what if that reboot was
> > commanded in the middle of your nightly backup run, leaving your
> > backup program with a totally bogus database it cannot recover from?
>
> That would be unfortunate - but surely a serious backup program would
> be designed to be robust enough that ending up "with a totally bogus
> database it cannot recover from" should never happen? What if you
> have some sort of system crash during a backup? Do you have a specific
> backup system in mind?

You are trying to justify an automatic reboot, very bad idea. Granted, 
most such would be ok, and will leave a requester popup to advise the 
admin, doing its normal routine in the meantime.

I happen to use amanda to backup 5 machines here, but any backup suite 
that maintains a recovery database is going to be in deep doodoo if it 
gets rebooted in the middle of a backup.  I probably do better than most 
but a worst case scenario here if everything in place works, would only 
lose me that days data because I do keep separate copies of that data. 
But 60 days of that is 33GB, the biggest single entry in my nearly 70 
items long list.

> > Frankly the update shouldn't be allowed if your backup is actually
> > running.  So it might be safer to schedule the update and reboot if
> > needed before the backup starts.  That means one cron driven script
> > does it all in the sequence desired.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#222420

On Tue, 12 May 2020 11:05:55 -0400
Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:

> On Tuesday 12 May 2020 10:30:04 Celejar wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 12 May 2020 06:03:52 -0400
> >
> > Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 12 May 2020 05:07:04 l0f4r0@tuta.io wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > 12 mai 2020 à 08:22 de keifer.bly@gmail.com:
> > > > > Is there a way to configure it to automatically restart when a
> > > > > package that needs to be restarted is upgraded?
> > > >
> > > > I think 'Unattended-Upgrade::Automatic-Reboot "true";' should do
> > > > it in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades. If I were you, I
> > > > would check /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades as well because
> > > > those are the 2 most important configuration files for
> > > > unattended-upgrades.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > l0f4r0
> > >
> > > I can see a major disaster in the making, what if that reboot was
> > > commanded in the middle of your nightly backup run, leaving your
> > > backup program with a totally bogus database it cannot recover from?
> >
> > That would be unfortunate - but surely a serious backup program would
> > be designed to be robust enough that ending up "with a totally bogus
> > database it cannot recover from" should never happen? What if you
> > have some sort of system crash during a backup? Do you have a specific
> > backup system in mind?
> 
> You are trying to justify an automatic reboot, very bad idea. Granted, 
> most such would be ok, and will leave a requester popup to advise the 
> admin, doing its normal routine in the meantime.

I'm not trying to justify an automatic reboot; I'm just questioning the
specific dire scenario you mention.

> I happen to use amanda to backup 5 machines here, but any backup suite 
> that maintains a recovery database is going to be in deep doodoo if it 
> gets rebooted in the middle of a backup.  I probably do better than most 

Surely any "recovery database" used by a serious backup program is
atomic!

> but a worst case scenario here if everything in place works, would only 
> lose me that days data because I do keep separate copies of that data. 
> But 60 days of that is 33GB, the biggest single entry in my nearly 70 
> items long list.

Celejar

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#222440

On 5/12/20 09:05, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 12 May 2020 10:30:04 Celejar wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 12 May 2020 06:03:52 -0400
>>
>> Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:
>>> On Tuesday 12 May 2020 05:07:04 l0f4r0@tuta.io wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> 12 mai 2020 à 08:22 de keifer.bly@gmail.com:
>>>>> Is there a way to configure it to automatically restart when a
>>>>> package that needs to be restarted is upgraded?
>>>>
>>>> I think 'Unattended-Upgrade::Automatic-Reboot "true";' should do
>>>> it in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades. If I were you, I
>>>> would check /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades as well because
>>>> those are the 2 most important configuration files for
>>>> unattended-upgrades.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> l0f4r0
>>>
>>> I can see a major disaster in the making, what if that reboot was
>>> commanded in the middle of your nightly backup run, leaving your
>>> backup program with a totally bogus database it cannot recover from?
>>
>> That would be unfortunate - but surely a serious backup program would
>> be designed to be robust enough that ending up "with a totally bogus
>> database it cannot recover from" should never happen? What if you
>> have some sort of system crash during a backup? Do you have a specific
>> backup system in mind?
> 
> You are trying to justify an automatic reboot, very bad idea. Granted, 
> most such would be ok, and will leave a requester popup to advise the 
> admin, doing its normal routine in the meantime.
> 
> I happen to use amanda to backup 5 machines here, but any backup suite 
> that maintains a recovery database is going to be in deep doodoo if it 
> gets rebooted in the middle of a backup.  I probably do better than most 
> but a worst case scenario here if everything in place works, would only 
> lose me that days data because I do keep separate copies of that data. 
> But 60 days of that is 33GB, the biggest single entry in my nearly 70 
> items long list.
> 

I don't know about Amanda other than understanding it to be a commercial
quality backup system. In my working days as an administrator, my
organization used HP Data Protector (now Micro Focus). As I recall, it
had a proprietary transactional database that should have been up to
date as of the last successfully completed file backups before a crash.
It also, at least in our usage, backed up its database as the first
action in a cycle, so in the worst case, reloading the database and
rerunning the faulted backup would restore synchronization of the
database and data. And if all else failed, I think there were procedures
for rebuilding the database from the tapes. I wonder if Amanda does not
provide similar features.

We also did not do automatic updates, there being organizational
requirements to test configuration changes before installing them on
production systems.

I don't consider automatic updates a very good idea, although out of
laziness in retirement I allow automatic security updates. Unplanned
reboots seem an even worse idea inasmuch as they occasionally will
either fail or affect system function. (Updating without rebooting also
may do that, of course).

>>> Frankly the update shouldn't be allowed if your backup is actually
>>> running.  So it might be safer to schedule the update and reboot if
>>> needed before the backup starts.  That means one cron driven script
>>> does it all in the sequence desired.

With respect, I would run the backup first and schedule upgrades and
possible reboots to follow, and perhaps depend on success of, the backup.

Regards,
Tom Dial

> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> 

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#222442

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

I am not backing this machine up to a physical drive, it is a VPS, so being
hosted in the cloud and all. We are not dealing with databases, but just
pushing traffic between nodes, etc. They strongly advise be running both
the most secure version of the OS and their software at all times, that's
why I am wanting to update them both automatically. Thanks very much.
--Keifer


On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 8:06 PM Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>
> On 5/12/20 09:05, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 12 May 2020 10:30:04 Celejar wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 12 May 2020 06:03:52 -0400
> >>
> >> Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday 12 May 2020 05:07:04 l0f4r0@tuta.io wrote:
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> 12 mai 2020 à 08:22 de keifer.bly@gmail.com:
> >>>>> Is there a way to configure it to automatically restart when a
> >>>>> package that needs to be restarted is upgraded?
> >>>>
> >>>> I think 'Unattended-Upgrade::Automatic-Reboot "true";' should do
> >>>> it in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades. If I were you, I
> >>>> would check /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades as well because
> >>>> those are the 2 most important configuration files for
> >>>> unattended-upgrades.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>> l0f4r0
> >>>
> >>> I can see a major disaster in the making, what if that reboot was
> >>> commanded in the middle of your nightly backup run, leaving your
> >>> backup program with a totally bogus database it cannot recover from?
> >>
> >> That would be unfortunate - but surely a serious backup program would
> >> be designed to be robust enough that ending up "with a totally bogus
> >> database it cannot recover from" should never happen? What if you
> >> have some sort of system crash during a backup? Do you have a specific
> >> backup system in mind?
> >
> > You are trying to justify an automatic reboot, very bad idea. Granted,
> > most such would be ok, and will leave a requester popup to advise the
> > admin, doing its normal routine in the meantime.
> >
> > I happen to use amanda to backup 5 machines here, but any backup suite
> > that maintains a recovery database is going to be in deep doodoo if it
> > gets rebooted in the middle of a backup.  I probably do better than most
> > but a worst case scenario here if everything in place works, would only
> > lose me that days data because I do keep separate copies of that data.
> > But 60 days of that is 33GB, the biggest single entry in my nearly 70
> > items long list.
> >
>
> I don't know about Amanda other than understanding it to be a commercial
> quality backup system. In my working days as an administrator, my
> organization used HP Data Protector (now Micro Focus). As I recall, it
> had a proprietary transactional database that should have been up to
> date as of the last successfully completed file backups before a crash.
> It also, at least in our usage, backed up its database as the first
> action in a cycle, so in the worst case, reloading the database and
> rerunning the faulted backup would restore synchronization of the
> database and data. And if all else failed, I think there were procedures
> for rebuilding the database from the tapes. I wonder if Amanda does not
> provide similar features.
>
> We also did not do automatic updates, there being organizational
> requirements to test configuration changes before installing them on
> production systems.
>
> I don't consider automatic updates a very good idea, although out of
> laziness in retirement I allow automatic security updates. Unplanned
> reboots seem an even worse idea inasmuch as they occasionally will
> either fail or affect system function. (Updating without rebooting also
> may do that, of course).
>
> >>> Frankly the update shouldn't be allowed if your backup is actually
> >>> running.  So it might be safer to schedule the update and reboot if
> >>> needed before the backup starts.  That means one cron driven script
> >>> does it all in the sequence desired.
>
> With respect, I would run the backup first and schedule upgrades and
> possible reboots to follow, and perhaps depend on success of, the backup.
>
> Regards,
> Tom Dial
>
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >
>
>

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#222451

Hi,

13 mai 2020 à 06:39 de keifer.bly@gmail.com:

> I am not backing this machine up to a physical drive, it is a VPS, so being hosted in the cloud and all. We are not dealing with databases, but just pushing traffic between nodes, etc. They strongly advise be running both the most secure version of the OS and their software at all times, that's why I am wanting to update them both automatically. Thanks very much.
>
Personnally, I would deactivate the automatic reboot after upgrading but make sure an email is sent to me after each upgrade.
>From memory, "reboot needed" or something like that is indicated inside this email when required so you can manually & precisely deal with the situation yourself afterwards.

Best regards,
l0f4r0

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#222453

On Wednesday 13 May 2020 03:53:36 l0f4r0@tuta.io wrote:

> Hi,
>
> 13 mai 2020 à 06:39 de keifer.bly@gmail.com:
> > I am not backing this machine up to a physical drive, it is a VPS,
> > so being hosted in the cloud and all. We are not dealing with
> > databases, but just pushing traffic between nodes, etc. They
> > strongly advise be running both the most secure version of the OS
> > and their software at all times, that's why I am wanting to update
> > them both automatically. Thanks very much.
>
> Personnally, I would deactivate the automatic reboot after upgrading
> but make sure an email is sent to me after each upgrade. From memory,
> "reboot needed" or something like that is indicated inside this email
> when required so you can manually & precisely deal with the situation
> yourself afterwards.
>
> Best regards,
> l0f4r0

That would make the most sense.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#222443

On Tuesday 12 May 2020 22:49:48 Tom Dial wrote:

> On 5/12/20 09:05, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 12 May 2020 10:30:04 Celejar wrote:
> >> On Tue, 12 May 2020 06:03:52 -0400
> >>
> >> Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday 12 May 2020 05:07:04 l0f4r0@tuta.io wrote:
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> 12 mai 2020 à 08:22 de keifer.bly@gmail.com:
> >>>>> Is there a way to configure it to automatically restart when a
> >>>>> package that needs to be restarted is upgraded?
> >>>>
> >>>> I think 'Unattended-Upgrade::Automatic-Reboot "true";' should do
> >>>> it in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades. If I were you, I
> >>>> would check /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades as well because
> >>>> those are the 2 most important configuration files for
> >>>> unattended-upgrades.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>> l0f4r0
> >>>
> >>> I can see a major disaster in the making, what if that reboot was
> >>> commanded in the middle of your nightly backup run, leaving your
> >>> backup program with a totally bogus database it cannot recover
> >>> from?
> >>
> >> That would be unfortunate - but surely a serious backup program
> >> would be designed to be robust enough that ending up "with a
> >> totally bogus database it cannot recover from" should never happen?
> >> What if you have some sort of system crash during a backup? Do you
> >> have a specific backup system in mind?
> >
> > You are trying to justify an automatic reboot, very bad idea.
> > Granted, most such would be ok, and will leave a requester popup to
> > advise the admin, doing its normal routine in the meantime.
> >
> > I happen to use amanda to backup 5 machines here, but any backup
> > suite that maintains a recovery database is going to be in deep
> > doodoo if it gets rebooted in the middle of a backup.  I probably do
> > better than most but a worst case scenario here if everything in
> > place works, would only lose me that days data because I do keep
> > separate copies of that data. But 60 days of that is 33GB, the
> > biggest single entry in my nearly 70 items long list.
>
> I don't know about Amanda other than understanding it to be a
> commercial quality backup system. In my working days as an
> administrator, my organization used HP Data Protector (now Micro
> Focus). As I recall, it had a proprietary transactional database that
> should have been up to date as of the last successfully completed file
> backups before a crash. It also, at least in our usage, backed up its
> database as the first action in a cycle, so in the worst case,
> reloading the database and rerunning the faulted backup would restore
> synchronization of the database and data. And if all else failed, I
> think there were procedures for rebuilding the database from the
> tapes. I wonder if Amanda does not provide similar features.
>
> We also did not do automatic updates, there being organizational
> requirements to test configuration changes before installing them on
> production systems.
>
> I don't consider automatic updates a very good idea, although out of
> laziness in retirement I allow automatic security updates. Unplanned
> reboots seem an even worse idea inasmuch as they occasionally will
> either fail or affect system function. (Updating without rebooting
> also may do that, of course).
>
> >>> Frankly the update shouldn't be allowed if your backup is actually
> >>> running.  So it might be safer to schedule the update and reboot
> >>> if needed before the backup starts.  That means one cron driven
> >>> script does it all in the sequence desired.
>
> With respect, I would run the backup first and schedule upgrades and
> possible reboots to follow, and perhaps depend on success of, the
> backup.
>
> Regards,
> Tom Dial
>
We are in violent agreement on that. I've never done an "automatic" 
upgrade, although apt does do a update to keep its database as to whats 
available automaticly.  The only fault with the list --upgradeable 
output is that it does not filter out what is pinned, which on the other 
4 machines here, is the kernel and its libs because its a special 
realtime built kernel for running cnc machinery.  So they don't often 
get rebooted unless something has obviously screwed the moose. X related 
stuff for instance often qualifies.  Although x development's pace has 
slowed, the gui's it makes possible hasn't.

As far as amanda's database is concerned, until the backup has been done, 
that database is effectively yesterdays, so I wrote a wrapper that 
appends that now up to date database to the just completed backup so the 
database in THAT backup is up to date.  Gives me a little more peace of 
mind.

Thanks, stay well and safe now.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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#222438

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Right, so according to I0f4ro@tutra.io's advice, I changed the line "
 'Unattended-Upgrade::Automatic-Reboot "false" to
'Unattended-Upgrade::Automatic-Reboot
"true" in   /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades. Upon checking
 /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades I see the lines:

APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "1";
APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "1";

What I am doing is running a small web server via a Debian Linux VPS, which
I am trying to use Unattended Upgrades to keep the software for this web
server and he OS Kernel up to date automatically. Based on what I see it
looks like it is working. Will this restart the OS and all processes I have
to restart via Chron automatically?  Thx.




--Keifer


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On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 2:07 AM <l0f4r0@tuta.io> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> 12 mai 2020 à 08:22 de keifer.bly@gmail.com:
>
> > Is there a way to configure it to automatically restart when a package
> that needs to be restarted is upgraded?
> >
> I think 'Unattended-Upgrade::Automatic-Reboot "true";' should do it
> in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades.
> If I were you, I would check /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20auto-upgrades as well
> because those are the 2 most important configuration files for
> unattended-upgrades.
>
> Best regards,
> l0f4r0
>
>

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#222412

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 02:22:13 AM Keifer Bly wrote:
> Is there a way to configure it to automatically restart when a package that
> needs to be restarted is upgraded? Thx.

If there is a comand named "needrestart" (I don't see it on my Wheezy system), 
then presumably a (bash?) script could be written to automate a restart.

(If I did it (which I won't), I'd make it present its results to the user / 
administrator and ask for confirmation, and/or use that command that warns 
users that the system is about to be shut down.)

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#222413

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 07:48:49AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 02:22:13 AM Keifer Bly wrote:
> > Is there a way to configure it to automatically restart when a package that
> > needs to be restarted is upgraded? Thx.
> 
> If there is a comand named "needrestart" (I don't see it on my Wheezy system), 
The package appears to have been added in jessie.

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#222414

	Hi.

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 07:48:49AM -0400, rhkramer@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 02:22:13 AM Keifer Bly wrote:
> > Is there a way to configure it to automatically restart when a package that
> > needs to be restarted is upgraded? Thx.
> 
> If there is a comand named "needrestart" (I don't see it on my Wheezy system), 
> then presumably a (bash?) script could be written to automate a restart.

$ file /usr/sbin/needrestart
/usr/sbin/needrestart: Perl script text executable

Appeared in Jessie, still here.

Reco

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