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Groups > linux.debian.user > #179898
| From | The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | linux.debian.user |
| Subject | Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... |
| Date | 2017-04-08 13:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <ttWg2-4d3-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink) |
| References | (2 earlier) <ttNmq-76Q-23@gated-at.bofh.it> <ttQNj-YJ-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <ttSP7-2eC-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <ttVah-3x9-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <ttVjY-3BY-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| Organization | This space intentionally left blank. |
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On 2017-04-08 at 05:56, Nicolas George wrote: > Le nonidi 19 germinal, an CCXXV, Martin Read a écrit : > >> If a systemd unit for a particular service needs the attention of >> an expert in order to be robust, the SysV-style RC script for the >> same service probably also needs the attention of an expert in >> order to be robust. >> >> As such, I find your suggestion that declarative configuration >> causes 'stronger separation between "priests" and "mortals"' more >> than a little bit questionable. > > I think Tomás is perfectly aware of that, and quoted that argument > from systemd opponents without making it his own. > > But you raise an interesting point. The people who invoke that > argument do not realize that they are already experts, "priests", of > the shell scripting language. > > I think that explains some of the most vocal systemd opposition: > systemd aims to get rid of the scoriae of the past, but since it is > IMHO somewhat over-engineered, it has a learning curve that is rather > steep at the beginning. People who painstakingly learned the > specifics of shell scripts and init scripts are afraid that their > skill will lose value or become obsolete and they will need to start > again. With the additional factor that expertise in shell is useful in multiple contexts, but (AFAIK, though I'm not an authority here) expertise in systemd unit files et al. is useful *only* in the context of systemd - with the result that the former is both more rewarding to learn, and more likely to be already known by someone who is new to what might be called 'sysadmin work'. (Though there's something to be said for a new-to-the-problem-domain person starting from zero rather than having to unlearn things that may be useful in other problem domains but aren't advisable in this one.) -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw
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If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... David Niklas <doark@mail.com> - 2017-04-07 20:50 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... David Niklas <doark@mail.com> - 2017-04-07 22:10 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 03:30 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-04-08 07:10 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-04-08 09:20 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-04-08 11:10 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-04-08 22:30 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Martin Read <zen75502@zen.co.uk> - 2017-04-08 11:50 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-04-08 12:00 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-04-08 13:00 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-04-08 22:40 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 15:20 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 01:30 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-04-09 09:50 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-04-10 15:40 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-04-10 16:10 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-04-10 16:20 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-04-10 16:30 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2017-04-10 16:40 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... tomas@tuxteam.de - 2017-04-10 21:10 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 02:20 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... GiaThnYgeia <GiaThnYgeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-04-10 23:30 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 23:40 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... GiaThnYgeia <GiaThnYgeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-04-11 16:40 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-04-12 17:40 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-04-12 17:30 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... GiaThnYgeia <GiaThnYgeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-04-12 18:50 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-04-12 21:50 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-04-13 00:00 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 22:50 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... GiaThnYgeia <GiaThnYgeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-04-13 00:50 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-04-13 02:20 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2017-04-13 08:50 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-04-13 11:00 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 22:50 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 23:20 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-04-12 23:20 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... GiaThnYgeia <GiaThnYgeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-04-13 01:20 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2017-04-13 02:00 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 22:50 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-04-13 01:00 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 02:20 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 02:10 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 05:40 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 03:40 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2017-04-11 05:10 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-04-09 12:30 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 20:10 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 03:10 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-04-11 15:00 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 15:20 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-04-11 17:10 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 17:50 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 22:20 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2017-04-09 23:50 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 00:20 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 08:10 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-04-10 09:40 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> - 2017-04-10 16:30 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-04-12 11:40 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 18:20 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-04-12 23:10 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-04-13 17:50 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-04-13 19:40 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-04-14 14:00 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-04-17 23:40 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-04-18 16:40 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-04-18 17:10 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2017-04-18 17:50 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-20 02:20 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... GiaThnYgeia <GiaThnYgeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-04-21 16:40 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Reco <recoverym4n@gmail.com> - 2017-04-18 18:50 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-04-20 12:00 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-04-20 12:00 +0200
Debian contributor Register of Interests (was Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-05-09 17:00 +0200
Re: Debian contributor Register of Interests (was Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ...) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-05-09 21:10 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... GiaThnYgeia <GiaThnYgeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-04-18 17:40 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Ben Caradoc-Davies <ben@transient.nz> - 2017-04-18 23:30 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Michael Fothergill <michael.fothergill@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 18:10 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... GiaThnYgeia <GiaThnYgeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-04-13 03:10 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-13 03:40 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... GiaThnYgeia <GiaThnYgeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-04-13 11:00 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-04-13 04:20 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-04-13 09:20 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-04-13 04:20 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... GiaThnYgeia <GiaThnYgeia@openmailbox.org> - 2017-04-13 11:30 +0200
Re: If Linux Is About Choice, Why Then ... Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-04-13 17:20 +0200
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