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Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)

From Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com>
Newsgroups linux.debian.user
Subject Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit)
Date 2017-03-24 08:50 +0100
Message-ID <tos8V-6GD-5@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <tokbn-14j-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <tokuJ-1bN-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <tolqO-1P5-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <tomdb-2rZ-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <top1n-4qf-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On 24-03-17, Catherine Gramze wrote:
> 
> > On Mar 23, 2017, at 9:20 PM, David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> wrote:
> > 
> > It's not really polite to call this "expert" (only in the sense
> > described by the Advanced options in the installer) rabid, and what
> > I do with the installer ridiculous.
> > 
> > I don't wish to accept arbitrary impositions on what I can do with
> > free software. That's the rationale behind its existence: freedom.
> > Nor do I wish to be told what I ought to be spending my money on,
> > just to conform with your, ahem, suggestions.
> 
> The point of free software is not to cater to your personal preferences, or mine, but to make that software accessible and useful to the greatest number of people. The netinst installer doesn't do that when it allows a very broken installation to result. There will inevitably be "arbitrary" decisions involved in a project like this, like not including the non-free firmware in the installer, and the switch to systemd. 
> 
> If you don't have a spare network card to use temporarily for a netinst and don't want to spend $15 on a USB NIC then download and use a different installer, like the first dvd of the complete set. It's free!
> 
> You still have not mentioned any actual use case for this hypothetical base system box with no network capability. What is the practical daily function of this box? You just keep insisting that you have such a use, and that using a different installer to get it is unacceptable as an option. Why is it so unacceptable? Because changing the netinst installer it might make it easier for new users to Debian?
> 
> Cathy

While I do agree that Debian should be made more newbie friendly, I do
not think that it will do much good towards that goal to change net
installer. Debian has solid documentation. Not as good as some, like for
example Arch and FreeBSD, but it is solid one. Trouble for newbie is to
find some things that it will make their lives with Debian easier. One
of those things is firmware needed for installation. Newbie with net
installer that has firmware on it is in much better position than newbie
who has net installer that will fail to do installation if it can not
set up networking. Some better hints for newbies on front page of site,
like special welcome link for newbies which kind of says "Welcome
newcomers, click here please for important things you want and need to 
know". And there, some kind of FAQ list with further links should exits.

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Re: Suggested edit Adrian O'Dell <crimsonmane@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 16:30 +0100
  Re: Suggested edit Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-16 17:10 +0100
    Re: Suggested edit Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-17 15:30 +0100
      Re: Suggested edit Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-17 16:40 +0100
        Re: Suggested edit Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 17:10 +0100
          Re: Suggested edit Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 18:00 +0100
            Re: Suggested edit Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-03-17 18:40 +0100
            Re: Suggested edit Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-17 18:50 +0100
              Re: Suggested edit Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 19:00 +0100
            Re: Suggested edit Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-20 11:00 +0100
          Re: Suggested edit Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-17 18:10 +0100
        Re: Suggested edit Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-03-17 18:50 +0100
        installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-20 10:50 +0100
          Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-20 21:10 +0100
            Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-20 21:40 +0100
              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-20 22:20 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 01:00 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 01:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 03:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 04:20 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 11:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 16:00 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-21 16:20 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 18:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 19:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-21 19:50 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-03-22 10:20 +0100
                Re: cell phone .sigs (was: installer defaults for desktops) Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-03-22 10:50 +0100
                Re: cell phone .sigs (was: installer defaults for desktops) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-03-22 11:20 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) cbannister@slingshot.co.nz - 2017-04-01 18:50 +0200
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 19:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 20:00 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 21:00 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-21 19:20 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 20:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-21 20:20 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 21:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-22 00:30 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-22 02:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2017-03-22 04:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-22 13:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-22 13:20 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2017-03-22 13:30 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2017-03-24 07:30 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-24 11:20 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2017-03-24 17:30 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-03-24 18:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Mart van de Wege <mvdwege@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 11:30 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-03-23 13:00 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 13:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-23 22:00 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 11:30 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-03-24 13:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 16:20 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 16:20 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-03-24 19:30 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-25 10:20 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-24 11:30 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-22 17:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 20:20 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-21 20:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-21 16:00 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-21 17:50 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-23 17:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-23 18:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 18:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-23 19:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 19:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-23 19:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 19:50 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-23 23:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-23 23:50 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 00:20 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 00:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 01:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-24 02:30 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 05:30 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Dejan Jocic <jodejka@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 08:50 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-24 19:30 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-24 20:50 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-24 02:30 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 03:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-03-24 15:50 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-24 19:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 21:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-24 23:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-25 00:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-25 02:50 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-03-25 03:50 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-24 13:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-24 15:00 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-24 16:00 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-03-24 19:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Catherine Gramze <rhiamom@mac.com> - 2017-03-24 20:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2017-03-24 20:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-23 19:00 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2017-03-23 19:50 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-03-24 11:30 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Fred <fred@blakemfg.com> - 2017-03-23 20:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-23 17:40 +0100
              Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 00:50 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-21 01:40 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 03:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-21 11:40 +0100
                [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested  edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-22 15:10 +0100
                Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-22 15:30 +0100
                Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re:  Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-22 16:00 +0100
                Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-22 16:40 +0100
                Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re:  Suggested edit) Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-03-22 18:30 +0100
                Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-22 18:50 +0100
                Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2017-03-23 17:50 +0100
                Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re:  Suggested edit) cbannister@slingshot.co.nz - 2017-04-01 20:10 +0200
                Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 20:50 +0200
                Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re:  Suggested edit) Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 22:30 +0200
                Re: [TEST RUNS] Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 23:10 +0200
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Liam O'Toole <liam.p.otoole@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 12:10 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-03-21 13:00 +0100
                Re: installer defaults for desktops (was Re: Suggested edit) Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-03-21 16:00 +0100

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