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Re: Feature idea: show upstream release dates on packages

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On Thu, Jul 03, 2025 at 08:42:52AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
> Borden wrote: 
> > On a few  projects, I've discovered how ancient some software is (like, last commit more than  15 years ago ancient). Unless I missed something, `apt-cache show` doesn't show the upstream release date.

Ignoring the usual gripes about outdated software versions in stable, this
seems like a pretty great idea. I am not sufficiently familiar with the
.deb metadata format, but I suspect including an Upstream-Version field
to any given package would be trivial. Displaying that field in apt-cache
show may or may not require a minor code change.

> This runs into problems quickly. Relevant issues include:

s/problems/exceptions/

> - no upstream ever existed
> - the upstream no longer exists

Okay, sure, and it's entirely reasonable to note that in the Upstream-Version
field.

> - the upstream doesn't release; the DD had to pick a particular
>   git/svn/hg... version and use that

That can also be noted with an identifier for the commit, which certainly
has a date attached.

> - the official release date for the version was X, but this is
>   the eleventh time a DD has patched in fixes from later
>   versions

That doesn't change the upstream version the package is based on.

> - the package is synthetic and has multiple release dates,
>   possibly including other problems from above

That can be noted in the Upstream-Version field and more details can be
included in the description. Or not.

> - there are roughly 60,000 packages in Trixie. At five minutes
>   per package to research the date, make a decision, add the
>   header and re-upload, that's 5000 hours of new work you are asking
>   volunteers to do. Two and a half years of full-time employment.

I don't think the suggestion was that DDs would have to go through all
previous packages and update them. It makes sense to do this going forward
whenever a new package version is uploaded. Or possibly only when a package
based on a new upstream version is uploaded.

> Is it a plausible idea to suggest? Yes. Is making it mandatory
> for Trixie reasonable? No.

There was absolutely no suggestion that it should be mandatory. It's useful
information that package maintainers can be encouraged to include in a
standardized way. That's it. There is no need to invent burdens.

> -dsr-
--Gregory

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Thread

Feature idea: show upstream release dates on packages Borden <borden_c@tutanota.com> - 2025-07-03 10:40 +0200
  Re: Feature idea: show upstream release dates on packages Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2025-07-03 15:10 +0200
    Re: Feature idea: show upstream release dates on packages Gregory Seidman <gsslist+debian@anthropohedron.net> - 2025-07-03 16:20 +0200
    Re: Feature idea: show upstream release dates on packages Borden <borden_c@tutanota.com> - 2025-07-04 06:20 +0200
  Re: Feature idea: show upstream release dates on packages David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2025-07-03 16:40 +0200
  Re: Feature idea: show upstream release dates on packages "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-07-03 19:00 +0200
    Re: Feature idea: show upstream release dates on packages David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2025-07-03 19:40 +0200
      Re: Feature idea: show upstream release dates on packages "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-07-04 22:40 +0200

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