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Re: DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current release?

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On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 09:10:21AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
>On 08/27/2024 08:14 AM, Dan Ritter wrote:
>>Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>I'm looking for for where *Debian* documents which processors support
>>>current Debian release.
>>>
>>>I have three machines whose processors are 64 bit capable.
>>>Processors identified by running lscpu:
>>>
>>>Machine 1:
>>>Architecture:	i686
>>>Model name:	Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU       M 540  @ 2.53GHz
>>>
>>>Machine 2:
>>>Architecture:	x86_64
>>>Model name:	Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T7300  @ 2.00GHz
>>>
>>>Machine 3:
>>>Architecture:	i686
>>>Model name:	Pentium(R) Dual-Core  CPU      E5300  @ 2.60GHz
>>>
>>>Will the OS linked to by https://www.debian.org/ run on all three?
>>>[For historical reasons I currently run 32 bit on all.]
>>
>>https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch02s01.en.html
>
>That was the USELESS page prompting the question!
>>
>>and
[snip more rudeness]
>
>OFF-TOPIC: I explicitly asked for *DEBIAN DOCUMENTATION*.
>
>>
>>and
>>
>>https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/30774/intel-celeron-processor-540-1m-cache-1-86-ghz-533-mhz-fsb.html
>>says that the M540 also has that, so will also run amd64.
>
>OFF-TOPIC: I explicitly asked for *DEBIAN DOCUMENTATION*.
>
>>
>>All of these CPUs should run Debian amd64.
>
>Weak point there is the word "should". Based on *your* background.
>I was looking for documentation that *does not* assume the reader has 
>some unspecified expertise.

Did the documentation tell you to run lscpu and do something with the 
architecture field? It seems to me that you're doing your own thing in 
your own way and expecting us to accomodate that, which seems at least 
somewhat unreasonable. For background: the lscpu architecture field 
doesn't tell you what kind of cpu you're running. Instead, it tells you 
the architecture of the system on which lscpu is running, and more 
specifically, what architecture the *kernel* is built for. If you run 
lscpu on a bookworm i386 system with the default kernel, it will say 
i686. If you reboot the system with an amd64 kernel, it will say x86_64, 
even though it's the same i386 install! You can see why giving us this 
line is completely USELESS? (So how would an amd64 kernel get on an i386 
install? Two ways: in older versions, there were multiple kernel options 
like i486, i686, and amd64, and the user could select any of them. The 
benefit of using an amd64 kernel on an i386 install was that you could 
utilize more memory efficiently. With a current release if you want to 
do the same thing you can set up a multiarch system or just install the 
amd64 deb and force the architecture.)

As others have suggested, the bottom line is that debian doesn't know 
whether *your machine* can run debian amd64. In general most computers
from the past 10+ years can, even many from the past 20+ years. The cpu 
manufacturer documentation will give you some information (e.g., intel 
ark says for the E5300: "Intel® 64 Yes"). But it's possible that a 
computer might not support 64 bit mode even if the cpu does (not common 
now, but was a thing once upon a time) so you'd need to also check the 
computer manufacturer's documentation. The practical answer, because 
documentation for old computers is hard to find and mostly was terrible 
when it was written, is to simply run the amd64 netinst or live image: 
if 64 bit mode isn't supported, it won't run.

FWIW, there isn't any reasonably general x86 OS that maintains a 
comprehensive list of every possible computer model it will run on. 
There may be a list of machines it was tested on, but that will be a 
subset of all possible machines. The odds that your specific old machine 
is on any such list for a current OS is fairly small, whether from 
debian or anyone else.

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Thread

DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current release? Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> - 2024-08-27 14:20 +0200
  Re: DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current release? David <bouncingcats@gmail.com> - 2024-08-27 15:40 +0200
    Re: DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current  release? Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> - 2024-08-27 16:40 +0200
      Re: DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current  release? debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-08-27 17:50 +0200
  Re: DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current  release? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2024-08-27 15:40 +0200
    Re: DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current  release? Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> - 2024-08-27 16:20 +0200
      Re: DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current  release? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2024-08-27 17:40 +0200
        Re: DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current  release? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2024-08-27 18:00 +0200
      Re: DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current  release? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2024-08-29 04:10 +0200
        Re: DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current  release? Richard Owlett <rowlett@access.net> - 2024-08-29 12:40 +0200
          Re: DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current  release? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2024-08-29 14:50 +0200
          Re: DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current  release? debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-08-29 17:40 +0200
          Re: DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current  release? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-08-29 19:20 +0200
  Re: DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current release? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-08-27 15:40 +0200
  Re: DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current  release? Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2024-08-27 17:30 +0200
  Re: DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current release? Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-08-27 17:30 +0200
  Re: DEBIAN documentation: which 64 bit processors run current release? Stanislav Vlasov <stanislav.v.v@gmail.com> - 2024-08-27 19:30 +0200

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