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Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial

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On 10/10/2021 05:47 PM, Tom Dial wrote:
> 
> 
> On 10/10/21 04:14, Richard Owlett wrote:
>> On 10/09/2021 10:24 AM, Patrick Bartek wrote:
>>> On Sat, 9 Oct 2021 09:40:21 -0500
>>> Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> wrote:
> 
> (Omitted)
> 
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Just be forewarned, WINE is not the catchall solution to running
>>> Windows apps: The more involved codewise the program is like games or
>>> Photoshop, the more problems you'll have.
>>
>> For context, I've been providing informal support to a local couple for
>> decades. He is a retired pastor, now a missionary. They need a new
>> computer and as part of my support, I'll be purchasing a replacement. As
>> I've not used Windows since WinXP and they are pure Windows users I
>> planned to dual boot Windows and Debian. Debian primarily for its
>> maintenance tools. I hope WINE will run enough of their "must have" apps
>> that I can use that as a selling point to move from Windows to Linux.
>>
>>> In those cases, just run Windows in a virtual machine which is what I do
>>> for ALL Windows apps I need. Less or virtually no gotchas!
>>
>> On my personal machines I would have no motivation to install a VM.
>> However, I'll investigate the pros/cons of having their machine run a VM
>> in which I would run Debian as a demo.
>>
> 
> Full disclosure: I have not run WINE for 20 years or more, and assume
> without argument that it is much improved over what it was then. I run
> VMs regularly under Linux (using KVM), but the current ones are either
> Linux or FreeBSD; I haven't done a Windows VM for years.
> 
> That said, it is not the right solution for the problem you describe.
> And with due respect to Patrick, I do not think running windows in a
> (presumably) Linux VM is a good solution either.

Description tangled as well being in flux.
I will supply them with a Windows machine. For my convenience it will 
have a VM running Debian. The only use being considered now for WINE is 
my personal home machines.

> 
> I have supported my wife's various computers for about 25 years under an
> oral service agreement providing that I will install software  as
> requested, maintain the OS and installed software regularly, analyze and
> correct software and hardware problems as necessary, and replace the
> hardware as appropriate. That, and no more, under threat of Serious
> Issues. That has brought the suffering of Windows 95, now long in the
> past, and over time reinforced the validity of the first rule I was
> given as a novice mainframe system programmer 30 years ago: "We install
> vanilla."
> 
> Running an emulator like WINE, or Windows in a Linux (?) VM, would
> likely lead to operational issues arising from interfaces that are not
> overly well documented and therefore hard to analyze. Resolution often
> would have to based on web search results of uncertain accuracy and
> reliability, and consequent false starts and customer dissatisfaction.
> Either would cause you excessive work and likely enough bring
> unhappiness to both you and those you aim to assist.

Agreed.

> 
> I recommend you select, with your users' concurrence, a suitable factory
> refurbished business-grade laptop[1] from a major manufacturer. I have
> used HP, but Dell, Lenovo, and maybe others probably have similar
> programs. Refurbished business laptops are a bit costlier than new
> consumer laptops with comparable performance, but they also are built to
> a higher standard of reliability and come with significantly less
> preloaded crapware. They also (HP experience here) may have useful built
> in diagnostic tools and support software/firmware maintenance support,
> and they come with a full new unit warranty; in my experience, any
> defects are minor and cosmetic.

I've already talking to such a local vendor. I've bought several Lenovos 
from them and have observed how they interact with non-tech customers. 
Also, IIUC they can provide on customer site service.

> 
> For the use case you describe, I also recommend a service agreement, if
> available, that provides pick up and delivery service. The HP ones
> (presently $137 for three year coverage) are fairly inexpensive. While
> they are unlikely to be used, I consider them worthwhile unless there is
> a serious cost constraint).
> 
> Such equipment will come with preinstalled and configured Windows, and
> current Microsoft maintenance support is quite good and relatively
> trouble free. And when problems do arise, Microsoft or manufacturer
> support is likely to be usable to resolve it; they certainly will be as
> good as random WWW support for a home-brew OS and software setup.
> 
> Linux tools are undeniable useful in some cases, but will rarely be
> necessary for a vanilla or nearly vanilla Windows setup. For those
> instances where they are, it always is nice to have a bootable CD, DVD,
> or USB key with Linux and a set of common tools on it. I generally use a
> recent Debian DVD #1 for this and install any missing tools as necessary
> once it is booted and running.

Having Debian in a VM would be nice, but not a deal breaker.

> 
> Regards
> Tom Dial
> 
> [1] Manufacturers also will offer refurbished business desktop or
> workstation equipment. I like laptops not only for their portability,
> but because, having only one piece, they simpler to deal with.
> 
>> Are there good FOSS or low cost VMs for Windows machines?
>>
>> Thanks
> 
> 

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Thread

First time WINE user looking for tutorial Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-10-09 16:50 +0200
  Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2021-10-09 17:30 +0200
    Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2021-10-10 06:00 +0200
      Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-10-10 12:20 +0200
      Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2021-10-10 23:10 +0200
        Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2021-10-11 00:50 +0200
    Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-10-10 12:20 +0200
      Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-10-10 18:10 +0200
        Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-10-11 15:00 +0200
      Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2021-10-11 00:20 +0200
      Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2021-10-11 01:10 +0200
        Re: First time WINE user looking for tutorial Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-10-11 16:10 +0200

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