Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons]

From	Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons]
Date	2020-06-21 14:40 +0200
Message-ID	<Ak7qq-4wW-5@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<AjRbY-3hl-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <AjUMy-5uj-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

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On Sat 20 Jun 2020 at 16:51:12 -0600, Tom Dial wrote:

> 
> 
> On 6/20/20 13:17, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> 
> > On Sb, 20 iun 20, 18:37:31, Brian wrote:
> >> On Sat 20 Jun 2020 at 17:53:56 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Vi, 19 iun 20, 15:12:27, Tom Dial wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I notice that tasksel (= /usr/bin/tasksel) is a Perl program in which it
> >>>> appears the "cmd" to be executed once selections are made (line 24 from
> >>>> the end) is
> >>>>
> >>>> apt-get -q -y -o APT::Install-Recommends=true -o \
> >>>> APT::Get::AutomaticRemove=true -o APT::Acquire::Retries=3 install
> >>>>
> >>>> I suspect that has something to do with the apparent fact that tasksel
> >>>> ignores "recommends=false" from other sources. I also suspect that
> >>>> editing that line would change the behavior in the desired direction.
> >>>> >From long-standing practice and inclination I have no wish to test this,
> >>>> but someone else might.
> >>>>
> >>>> I assume this would need to be done by skipping tasksel during
> >>>> installation of the d-i minimal system, then altering and running the
> >>>> installed tasksel after the post-install reboot.
> >>>
> >>> Why not just run 'apt install task-<whatever>' afterwards?
> >>
> >> Without the suggested alteration made by Tom Dial? How does that fulfill
> >> Richard's desired outcome of not installing recommended packages?
> > 
> > As far as I know all tasks are now[1] metapackages that one can just 
> > install with apt, hence one doesn't need tasksel at all.
> 
> This seems to be quite correct: apt would happily install each of the
> tasksel-listed tasks as described. With "APT::Install-Recommends=false"
> it will do it without the recommends.

Indeed.
 
> I do wonder how appropriate or useful it would be to install these task
> groups without the recommends, though. On my system (with gnome
> installed), for instance, task-xfce-desktop would install 37 packages
> exclusive of the recommends and 213 more with recommends included. I
> have to think some of them would be useful almost to the point of necessity.
> 
> Sometimes you have to be careful what you ask for, lest you get it, as
> Mencken put it, good and hard.

The changelog for debconf has

   * Install recommends by default.

That's from 2009. Here is not the place to recount the history, but the
reasons for the change are not trivial.

> > If you are referring to the lack of '--no-install-recommends', I was 
> > under the impression that we are in the context of a system installed 
> > with 'recommends=false' preseeded, which as per your posting[2] is 
> > already configured to not install recommends.
> > 
> > I just now realised that skipping the tasksel step completely makes 
> > 'recommends=false' optional (it's only use would be to get a system 
> > pre-configured to not install recommends), so one should add 
> > '--no-install-recommends' as needed to the above 
> 
> This approach is much better than hacking a file that a standard package
> installed.

Agreed. One may hope that Richard will see it in the same light.

I am not sure that the only use for 'recommends=false' 

  > ... would be to get a system pre-configured to not install
  > recommends ...

It is possible that it is obeyed when preseeding with pkgsel and a
late_command. Not having tried it, I wouldn't know.

-- 
Brian.

Thread

Need commands ROHIT SONI <rs499647@gmail.com> - 2020-06-13 07:10 +0200
  Re: Need commands deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2020-06-13 08:20 +0200
  Re: Need commands Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-13 12:50 +0200
  Re: Need commands Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> - 2020-06-13 13:20 +0200
    Re: Need commands Mike McClain <mike.junk.46@att.net> - 2020-06-14 06:10 +0200
      Re: Need commands David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-06-14 17:20 +0200
  Re: Need commands mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-06-14 13:30 +0200
    Re: Need commands <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-14 13:50 +0200
      Re: Need commands mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-06-14 14:20 +0200
      Re: Need commands mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-06-14 14:40 +0200
        Re: Need commands <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-14 15:50 +0200
          Re: Need commands Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-06-15 14:10 +0200
            Re: Need commands <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-15 14:10 +0200
        Re: Need commands davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-16 10:50 +0200
          bash-completion pros/cons (was: Re: Need commands) l0f4r0@tuta.io - 2020-06-16 13:00 +0200
            Re: bash-completion pros/cons (was: Re: Need commands) Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-06-16 13:30 +0200
              Re: bash-completion pros/cons (was: Re: Need commands) l0f4r0@tuta.io - 2020-06-16 14:00 +0200
                Re: bash-completion pros/cons (was: Re: Need commands) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-16 15:00 +0200
                Re: bash-completion pros/cons The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-06-16 15:20 +0200
                Re: bash-completion pros/cons David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-06-16 21:50 +0200
                Re: bash-completion pros/cons Anders Andersson <pipatron@gmail.com> - 2020-06-17 10:10 +0200
                Re: bash-completion pros/cons David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-06-18 21:20 +0200
                Re: bash-completion pros/cons David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-06-18 22:20 +0200
                Re: bash-completion pros/cons David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-06-19 04:20 +0200
                Re: bash-completion pros/cons <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-17 10:40 +0200
                Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-17 12:00 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-17 13:20 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-17 13:40 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-17 13:40 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-17 14:00 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-17 14:30 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-17 14:40 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-17 19:20 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-06-17 21:20 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-17 21:50 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-06-18 21:20 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-19 17:30 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2020-06-19 23:40 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2020-06-19 23:40 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-20 01:20 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 17:00 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-20 19:40 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 21:20 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2020-06-21 01:10 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-21 14:40 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-19 05:20 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-19 17:00 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-19 05:30 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-19 13:30 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-06-19 16:40 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2020-06-19 19:20 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 17:10 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-19 19:50 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-18 02:00 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-18 10:20 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2020-06-18 13:50 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-18 14:50 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-18 21:00 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-18 21:10 +0200
                Re: Disabling recommends - was [Re: bash-completion pros/cons] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-06-18 21:20 +0200
                Re: bash-completion pros/cons (was: Re: Need commands) davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-18 09:30 +0200
                Re: bash-completion pros/cons (was: Re: Need commands) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-18 10:20 +0200
            Re: bash-completion pros/cons (was: Re: Need commands) davidson <davidson@freevolt.org> - 2020-06-18 09:10 +0200
              Re: bash-completion pros/cons (was: Re: Need commands) l0f4r0@tuta.io - 2020-06-18 20:40 +0200
          Re: Need commands mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-06-16 13:20 +0200

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