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Groups > linux.debian.user > #223282

Re: Zoom- best practice?

From <tomas@tuxteam.de>
Newsgroups linux.debian.user
Subject Re: Zoom- best practice?
Date 2020-06-09 14:00 +0200
Message-ID <AfL57-W7-7@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
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On Tue, Jun 09, 2020 at 06:41:33AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> (Please stop CCing me on replies [...]

Sorry.

[...]

> FWIW, I have tried, at least in part.

Thanks for taking the time to do, and thanks for reporting back.

[...]

> Even a successful build from a repository like that would not
> demonstrate that you can actually completely rebuild the project from
> scratch [...]

Yes, this is a well-known problem with many facets.

ISTR that there was a Lisp which only could build itself: the
whole buildery (which, this being Lisp included everything,
compiler, assembler and all) was written in Lisp, and took
advantage of newer and newer features. A full bootstrap involved
unearthing "old versions" and following the historical evolution
of that thing.

Some "ecosystems", like Java, tend to build up a huge network
of dependencies on "well-known" components -- something I used
to call it the "Java Disease". Until Javascript came with npm,
or PHP with composer. It can get worse.

Building something significant, like Jitsi, lands you in this
hell, and to survive, you end up ingesting those dependencies
(that's what is called "vendoring" -- imo the Euphemism of the
Decennium).

On the other end there are heroes, like the Guix folks [1],
or the reproducible build folks [2] working relentlessly on
disentangling those things. Debian packaging belongs into that
class of heroism.

So from my POV there is a lot to critizice there, and a lot
to fix -- but "this is not free software just because I'm too
lazy to check thoroughly", as some have basically said here
is simply unfair -- and counterproductive.

Cheers

[1] https://guix.gnu.org/
[2] https://reproducible-builds.org/

-- tomás

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Thread

Zoom- best practice? Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-06-05 18:50 +0200
  Re: Zoom- best practice? Paul Johnson <baloo@ursamundi.org> - 2020-06-05 18:50 +0200
    Re: Zoom- best practice? Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-06-05 21:20 +0200
      Re: Zoom- best practice? Seeds Notoneofmy <notoneofmyseeds@gmx.de> - 2020-06-07 20:30 +0200
        Re: Zoom- best practice? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2020-06-07 20:40 +0200
          Re: Zoom- best practice? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-07 21:00 +0200
            Re: Zoom- best practice? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2020-06-07 21:00 +0200
              Re: Zoom- best practice? Seeds Notoneofmy <notoneofmyseeds@gmx.de> - 2020-06-07 21:20 +0200
              Re: Zoom- best practice? tomas@tuxteam.de - 2020-06-07 21:20 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-07 22:10 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-07 22:30 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-08 00:20 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-08 01:00 +0200
              Re: Zoom- best practice? Seeds Notoneofmy <notoneofmyseeds@gmx.de> - 2020-06-07 21:20 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2020-06-07 21:30 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2020-06-07 21:40 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-06-07 21:50 +0200
          Re: Zoom- best practice? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-07 21:00 +0200
            Re: Zoom- best practice? Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-06-07 21:20 +0200
          Re: Zoom- best practice? Seeds Notoneofmy <notoneofmyseeds@gmx.de> - 2020-06-07 21:10 +0200
          Re: Zoom- best practice? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-06-07 22:00 +0200
            Re: Zoom- best practice? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2020-06-07 23:10 +0200
              Re: Zoom- best practice? Anastasios Lisgaras <tasosnumberten@yahoo.gr> - 2020-06-08 16:00 +0200
            Re: Zoom- best practice? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-06-07 23:10 +0200
            Re: Zoom- best practice? "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-06-07 23:10 +0200
              Re: Zoom- best practice? Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2020-06-08 23:20 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-09 10:50 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2020-06-09 11:50 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-06-09 17:10 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? Alberto Sentieri <22t@tripolho.com> - 2020-06-09 20:00 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-06-09 20:30 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-06-09 12:50 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2020-06-09 13:00 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-06-09 13:10 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2020-06-10 15:30 +0200
                Reply semantics, yet again (was Re: Zoom- best practice?) The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2020-06-10 16:00 +0200
                Re: Reply semantics, yet again (was Re: Zoom- best practice?) Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2020-06-11 17:20 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-06-10 15:20 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2020-06-10 15:20 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2020-06-10 15:30 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? Paul Johnson <baloo@ursamundi.org> - 2020-06-10 16:00 +0200
                Re: Zoom- best practice? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-09 14:00 +0200
          Re: Zoom- best practice? "Russell L. Harris" <russell@rlharris.org> - 2020-06-07 22:00 +0200
            Re: Zoom- best practice? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-06-08 03:50 +0200
            Re: Zoom- best practice? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2020-06-08 03:50 +0200
        Re: Zoom- best practice? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-07 20:40 +0200
        Re: Zoom- best practice? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2020-06-07 21:00 +0200
  Re: Zoom- best practice? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-06-05 19:10 +0200
    Re: Zoom- best practice? Seeds Notoneofmy <notoneofmyseeds@gmx.de> - 2020-06-07 20:10 +0200
  Re: Zoom- best practice? "der.hans" <deb-user@LuftHans.com> - 2020-06-05 19:10 +0200
    Re: Zoom- best practice? Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-06-05 21:40 +0200
  Re: Zoom- best practice? john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2020-06-05 19:40 +0200
    Re: Zoom- best practice? Keith bainbridge <keithrbau@gmail.com> - 2020-06-07 07:20 +0200
      Re: Zoom- best practice? Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-06-07 16:10 +0200
        Re: Zoom- best practice? Admin4 <admin4@dwaves.de> - 2020-06-07 20:10 +0200
          Re: Zoom- best practice? Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2020-06-07 20:30 +0200
  Re: Zoom- best practice? Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2020-06-05 19:50 +0200
  Re: Zoom- best practice? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2020-06-05 21:50 +0200
    Re: Zoom- best practice? Dominik George <nik@naturalnet.de> - 2020-06-05 23:10 +0200
    Re: Zoom- best practice? Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2020-06-06 03:30 +0200
  Re: Zoom- best practice? Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2020-06-06 00:20 +0200
    Re: Zoom- best practice? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-06 10:40 +0200
    Re: Zoom- best practice? Alex Mestiashvili <amestia@rsh2.donotuse.de> - 2020-06-06 13:20 +0200
      Re: Zoom- best practice? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-06 17:50 +0200
        Re: Zoom- best practice? Paul Johnson <baloo@ursamundi.org> - 2020-06-06 18:00 +0200
  Re: Zoom- best practice? Ryan Nowakowski <tubaman@fattuba.com> - 2020-06-12 00:30 +0200

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