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Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium?

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  Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? Friedhelm Waitzmann <fach220408.fwnsp@xoxy.net> - 2022-04-17 10:30 +0200
    Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2022-04-17 10:30 +0200
      Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? Cyril Brulebois <kibi@debian.org> - 2022-04-17 11:00 +0200
        Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? Valeri Galtsev <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu> - 2022-04-17 14:40 +0200
    Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2022-04-17 15:10 +0200
    Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium? Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2022-04-21 23:10 +0200

#6076 — Re: amd64 running on Intel Celeron and Pentium?

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Hash: SHA512

piorunz:
>On 12/04/2022 04:59, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:
>> You mean, that it is possible to run amd64 on my old hardware 
>>
>>
>> 1#
>>
>> vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
>> cpu family      : 6
>> model           : 22
>> model name      : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU          440  @ 2.00GHz
>> stepping        : 1
>> microcode       : 0x43
>> cpu MHz         : 1229.629
>> cache size      : 512 KB
>>
>> and
>>
>> 2#
>>
>> vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
>> cpu family      : 15
>> model           : 2
>> model name      : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz
>> stepping        : 4
>> cpu MHz         : 1993.656
>> cache size      : 512 KB
>>
>> ?

>Celeron 440 for sure is 64-bit. Pentium 4 2.00 GHz I am not 
>sure, there are many models and variations of this processor. Is 
>it socket LGA775 also?

It is a Willamette on a socket 423. 



Friedhelm
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#6077

I haven´t heard yet of a Pentium IV supporting amd64.
Likely it does not exist.

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:05:39AM +0200, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> piorunz:
> > On 12/04/2022 04:59, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:
> > > You mean, that it is possible to run amd64 on my old hardware
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 1#
> > > 
> > > vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
> > > cpu family      : 6
> > > model           : 22
> > > model name      : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU          440  @ 2.00GHz
> > > stepping        : 1
> > > microcode       : 0x43
> > > cpu MHz         : 1229.629
> > > cache size      : 512 KB
> > > 
> > > and
> > > 
> > > 2#
> > > 
> > > vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
> > > cpu family      : 15
> > > model           : 2
> > > model name      : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz
> > > stepping        : 4
> > > cpu MHz         : 1993.656
> > > cache size      : 512 KB
> > > 
> > > ?
> 
> > Celeron 440 for sure is 64-bit. Pentium 4 2.00 GHz I am not sure, there
> > are many models and variations of this processor. Is it socket LGA775
> > also?
> 
> It is a Willamette on a socket 423.
> 
> 
> 
> Friedhelm
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> 

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#6078

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> (2022-04-17):
> I haven´t heard yet of a Pentium IV supporting amd64.
> Likely it does not exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_4_processors seems
to disagree in general. Willamette seems to be old enough to be 32-bit
only though.


Cheers,
-- 
Cyril Brulebois (kibi@debian.org)            <https://debamax.com/>
D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant

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#6079

On 4/17/22 4:52 AM, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> (2022-04-17):
>> I haven´t heard yet of a Pentium IV supporting amd64.
>> Likely it does not exist.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_4_processors seems
> to disagree in general. Willamette seems to be old enough to be 32-bit
> only though.
> 

Interesting. The architecture is called amd64 quite rightfully in my 
opinion, as it was first introduced by release in 2003 of Opteron CPU 
(project Hammer) by AMD (Advanced Micro Devices):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opteron

However, Intel continued calling CPUs "Pentium 4" and since 2004 Intel 
CPUs in Wikipedia article Cyril mentions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Pentium_4_processors

are said to be "Intel 64". That article does not mention the core CPU 
data width not address width. If my memory serves me, these were the 
same 32 bit CPUs with "physical address extension" just expanding the 
ability of CPU to handle larger address space. So, wikipedia article 
about Pentium CPU is at least wrong when it points "Intel 64" to Opteron 
(Amd64 or its x86_64 synonym). But somebody more knowledgeable in the 
history may correct me.

<rant>
Incidentally, technical documentation on Intel website for these later 
pentiums is not acessible. I just tried to take a look at the technical 
documentation to prove for myself that I'm wrong above... but no 
information from primary source: Intel, just something on wikipedia (and 
we don't even know who takes responsibility for what wikipedia page says).
</rant>

Valeri

PS Of course, 32 bit CPU core can handle 64 bit data and addresses by 
using multiple operations for what 64 bit CPU will use a single one. 
Like pocket calculators which are using 1 to 4 bit addition register, 
yet happily processing really large numbers.

> 
> Cheers,

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#6080

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 10:05:39AM +0200, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:
>>>vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
>>>cpu family      : 15
>>>model           : 2
>>>model name      : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz
>>>stepping        : 4
>>>cpu MHz         : 1993.656
>>>cache size      : 512 KB
>>>
>>>?
>
>>Celeron 440 for sure is 64-bit. Pentium 4 2.00 GHz I am not sure, 
>>there are many models and variations of this processor. Is it socket 
>>LGA775 also?
>
>It is a Willamette on a socket 423.

Nope, that would be model 1; model 2 was northwood. It's much easier to 
look at the family/model than trying to guess based on the marketing 
name.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/27433/intel-pentium-4-processor-2-00-ghz-512k-cache-400-mhz-fsb.html

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#6088

On Sun, 17 Apr 2022, Friedhelm Waitzmann wrote:
> > > You mean, that it is possible to run amd64 on my old hardware

I had quite a lot of trouble mapping this a long time ago for
intel-microcode.  I ended up using several sources including, but not
limited to: ark.intel.com, the processor specification datasheets
available at intel.com, and boot logs.  And ark.intel.com proved to not
be correct at least once from what little I recall.

So, FWIW, according to the work I did at that time:

> > > cpu family      : 6
> > > model           : 22
> > > model name      : Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU          440  @ 2.00GHz
> > > stepping        : 1

sig 0x10661, 64-bit capable, latest public microcode update: rev 0x43

> > > cpu family      : 15
> > > model           : 2
> > > model name      : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.00GHz
> > > stepping        : 4

sig 0xf24, 32-bit only, latest public microcode update: rev 0x20.

-- 
  Henrique Holschuh

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