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Groups > linux.debian.project > #10835 > unrolled thread

Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.

Started byCharles Plessy <plessy@debian.org>
First post2019-07-25 10:30 +0200
Last post2019-07-29 13:40 +0200
Articles 14 — 10 participants

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  Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we  redistribute. Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2019-07-25 10:30 +0200
    Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects  we redistribute. Felipe Sateler <fsateler@debian.org> - 2019-07-25 16:20 +0200
      Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute. Xavier <yadd@debian.org> - 2019-07-25 16:30 +0200
        Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects  we redistribute. Felipe Sateler <fsateler@debian.org> - 2019-07-25 19:10 +0200
          Bug#934062: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute. Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2019-08-06 17:50 +0200
      Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute. Jelmer Vernooij <jelmer@jelmer.uk> - 2019-07-25 22:00 +0200
        Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects  we redistribute. Felipe Sateler <fsateler@debian.org> - 2019-07-29 19:30 +0200
      Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute. Ole Streicher <olebole@debian.org> - 2019-07-30 10:10 +0200
    Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects  we redistribute. Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2019-07-26 03:40 +0200
    on using the wrong mailinglists (Re: Upstream metadata to help our  users contribute back to projects we redistribute.) Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2019-07-26 18:40 +0200
    Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects  we redistribute. Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2019-07-29 11:20 +0200
      Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects  we redistribute. Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2019-07-29 13:30 +0200
        Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects  we redistribute. [and 1 more messages] Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2019-08-06 18:00 +0200
      Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects  we redistribute. Alex Muntada <alexm@debian.org> - 2019-07-29 13:40 +0200

#10835 — Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.

FromCharles Plessy <plessy@debian.org>
Date2019-07-25 10:30 +0200
SubjectUpstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.
Message-ID<ynHip-5tJ-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
Hello everybody,

(posted on -project because of the context, but answers probably
belong to -devel, where I am not subscribed...)

there is an intersting discussion going on about Git and the preferred
form for modification of the programs we redistribute.

Indeed, as of today would be hard to say « just run “apt-get source
<packagename>” and voilà, you can hack and contribute back upstream ».

There has been now and in the past (for instance when discussing the
proposed format “3.0 (Git)” for dpkg) some important points raised
explaining the challenge of redistributing the upstream VCS instead of a
flat file archive.

This is why some packges are shipping metadata indicating where to find
the upstream sources, send upstream bugs, or even where to dontate
money, in order to help our users contribute back to the developement
of the software that Debian is made of.

For many of you, I am sure that it is only a reminder.  But in any case
please have a look at https://wiki.debian.org/debian/upstream and
https://wiki.debian.org/AppStream for details.

Have a nice day,

Charles

-- 
Charles Plessy                                  Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan
Debian Med packaging team         http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med
Tooting from work,           https://mastodon.technology/@charles_plessy
Tooting from home,                 https://framapiaf.org/@charles_plessy

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#10838 — Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.

FromFelipe Sateler <fsateler@debian.org>
Date2019-07-25 16:20 +0200
SubjectRe: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.
Message-ID<ynML7-su-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10835
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 17:27:51 +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:

> Hello everybody,

Hello Charles,

> 
> (posted on -project because of the context, but answers probably belong
> to -devel, where I am not subscribed...)
> 
> there is an intersting discussion going on about Git and the preferred
> form for modification of the programs we redistribute.
> 
> Indeed, as of today would be hard to say « just run “apt-get source
> <packagename>” and voilà, you can hack and contribute back upstream ».
> 
> There has been now and in the past (for instance when discussing the
> proposed format “3.0 (Git)” for dpkg) some important points raised
> explaining the challenge of redistributing the upstream VCS instead of a
> flat file archive.
> 
> This is why some packges are shipping metadata indicating where to find
> the upstream sources, send upstream bugs, or even where to dontate
> money, in order to help our users contribute back to the developement of
> the software that Debian is made of.

Are there tools that are actively using this information? Unfortunately, 
the links you quote below do not provide much information about where 
this information is used (other than bibref table in UDD).

On the other side of the coin, are there any tools that help generate 
this metadata? For example, github-hosted projects can have their Bug-
Database, Bug-Submit, Changelog, Repository, Repository-Browse 
automatically derived.

-- 
Saludos,
Felipe Sateler

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#10839 — Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.

FromXavier <yadd@debian.org>
Date2019-07-25 16:30 +0200
SubjectRe: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.
Message-ID<ynMUN-vS-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10838

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi,

pkg-js-tools embeds a tool that generates debian/upstream/metadata for Github repositories (github-missing-upstream).

dpt from pkg-perl-tools uses this file to link locally upstream repo in "git remote"



Le 25 juillet 2019 16:17:13 GMT+02:00, Felipe Sateler <fsateler@debian.org> a écrit :
>On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 17:27:51 +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
>
>> Hello everybody,
>
>Hello Charles,
>
>> 
>> (posted on -project because of the context, but answers probably
>belong
>> to -devel, where I am not subscribed...)
>> 
>> there is an intersting discussion going on about Git and the
>preferred
>> form for modification of the programs we redistribute.
>> 
>> Indeed, as of today would be hard to say « just run “apt-get source
>> <packagename>” and voilà, you can hack and contribute back upstream
>».
>> 
>> There has been now and in the past (for instance when discussing the
>> proposed format “3.0 (Git)” for dpkg) some important points raised
>> explaining the challenge of redistributing the upstream VCS instead
>of a
>> flat file archive.
>> 
>> This is why some packges are shipping metadata indicating where to
>find
>> the upstream sources, send upstream bugs, or even where to dontate
>> money, in order to help our users contribute back to the developement
>of
>> the software that Debian is made of.
>
>Are there tools that are actively using this information?
>Unfortunately, 
>the links you quote below do not provide much information about where 
>this information is used (other than bibref table in UDD).
>
>On the other side of the coin, are there any tools that help generate 
>this metadata? For example, github-hosted projects can have their Bug-
>Database, Bug-Submit, Changelog, Repository, Repository-Browse 
>automatically derived.
>
>-- 
>Saludos,
>Felipe Sateler

-- 
Envoyé de mon appareil Android avec Courriel K-9 Mail. Veuillez excuser ma brièveté.

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#10844 — Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.

FromFelipe Sateler <fsateler@debian.org>
Date2019-07-25 19:10 +0200
SubjectRe: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.
Message-ID<ynPpD-27q-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10839
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 16:26:02 +0200, Xavier wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> pkg-js-tools embeds a tool that generates debian/upstream/metadata for
> Github repositories (github-missing-upstream).

Thanks, this is useful. It's named github-debian-upstream though ;)

> 
> dpt from pkg-perl-tools uses this file to link locally upstream repo in
> "git remote"

This sounds cool too. Sounds more useful than for just perl packages.


-- 
Saludos,
Felipe Sateler

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#10882 — Bug#934062: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.

FromIan Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Date2019-08-06 17:50 +0200
SubjectBug#934062: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.
Message-ID<ys9SN-41I-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10844
Package: dgit
Version: 9.0

Felipe Sateler writes ("Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute."):
> On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 16:26:02 +0200, Xavier wrote:
> > pkg-js-tools embeds a tool that generates debian/upstream/metadata for
> > Github repositories (github-missing-upstream).
> 
> Thanks, this is useful. It's named github-debian-upstream though ;)
> 
> > dpt from pkg-perl-tools uses this file to link locally upstream repo in
> > "git remote"
> 
> This sounds cool too. Sounds more useful than for just perl packages.

Yes.  I think "dgit clone" should set up a remote for this
automatically.  (The information is useful for a lot more than
contributing back: having the upstream git history, where it can be
found, is often useful for bugfixing, etc.)

What does pkg-perl-tools call this remote ?  dgit and pkg-perl-tools
should agree.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk>   These opinions are my own.

If I emailed you from an address @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk, that is
a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.

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#10849 — Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.

FromJelmer Vernooij <jelmer@jelmer.uk>
Date2019-07-25 22:00 +0200
SubjectRe: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.
Message-ID<ynS49-3wq-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10838

On 25 July 2019 15:17:13 GMT+01:00, Felipe Sateler <fsateler@debian.org> wrote:
>On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 17:27:51 +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
>
>> Hello everybody,
>
>Hello Charles,
>
>> 
>> (posted on -project because of the context, but answers probably
>belong
>> to -devel, where I am not subscribed...)
>> 
>> there is an intersting discussion going on about Git and the
>preferred
>> form for modification of the programs we redistribute.
>> 
>> Indeed, as of today would be hard to say « just run “apt-get source
>> <packagename>” and voilà, you can hack and contribute back upstream
>».
>> 
>> There has been now and in the past (for instance when discussing the
>> proposed format “3.0 (Git)” for dpkg) some important points raised
>> explaining the challenge of redistributing the upstream VCS instead
>of a
>> flat file archive.
>> 
>> This is why some packges are shipping metadata indicating where to
>find
>> the upstream sources, send upstream bugs, or even where to dontate
>> money, in order to help our users contribute back to the developement
>of
>> the software that Debian is made of.
>
>Are there tools that are actively using this information?
>Unfortunately, 
>the links you quote below do not provide much information about where 
>this information is used (other than bibref table in UDD).
>
>On the other side of the coin, are there any tools that help generate 
>this metadata? For example, github-hosted projects can have their Bug-
>Database, Bug-Submit, Changelog, Repository, Repository-Browse 
>automatically derived.

lintian-brush (https://packages.debian.org/intuan-brush) can update debian/upstream/metadata from various kinds of upstream-bundled files like dist.ini, META.json, doap (used by GNOME) or setup.py.

Jelmer

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#10865 — Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.

FromFelipe Sateler <fsateler@debian.org>
Date2019-07-29 19:30 +0200
SubjectRe: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.
Message-ID<yphDc-1cC-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10849

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 3:34 PM Jelmer Vernooij <jelmer@jelmer.uk> wrote:

>
>
> On 25 July 2019 15:17:13 GMT+01:00, Felipe Sateler <fsateler@debian.org>
> wrote:
> >On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 17:27:51 +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> >
> >> Hello everybody,
> >
> >Hello Charles,
> >
> >>
> >> (posted on -project because of the context, but answers probably
> >belong
> >> to -devel, where I am not subscribed...)
> >>
> >> there is an intersting discussion going on about Git and the
> >preferred
> >> form for modification of the programs we redistribute.
> >>
> >> Indeed, as of today would be hard to say « just run “apt-get source
> >> <packagename>” and voilà, you can hack and contribute back upstream
> >».
> >>
> >> There has been now and in the past (for instance when discussing the
> >> proposed format “3.0 (Git)” for dpkg) some important points raised
> >> explaining the challenge of redistributing the upstream VCS instead
> >of a
> >> flat file archive.
> >>
> >> This is why some packges are shipping metadata indicating where to
> >find
> >> the upstream sources, send upstream bugs, or even where to dontate
> >> money, in order to help our users contribute back to the developement
> >of
> >> the software that Debian is made of.
> >
> >Are there tools that are actively using this information?
> >Unfortunately,
> >the links you quote below do not provide much information about where
> >this information is used (other than bibref table in UDD).
> >
> >On the other side of the coin, are there any tools that help generate
> >this metadata? For example, github-hosted projects can have their Bug-
> >Database, Bug-Submit, Changelog, Repository, Repository-Browse
> >automatically derived.
>
> lintian-brush (https://packages.debian.org/intuan-brush) can update
> debian/upstream/metadata from various kinds of upstream-bundled files like
> dist.ini, META.json, doap (used by GNOME) or setup.py.
>
>
Thanks, this tool looks very useful, and not only for upstream/metadata.


-- 

Saludos,
Felipe Sateler

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#10866 — Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.

FromOle Streicher <olebole@debian.org>
Date2019-07-30 10:10 +0200
SubjectRe: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.
Message-ID<ypvmN-1Bf-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10838
Felipe Sateler <fsateler@debian.org> writes:
> Are there tools that are actively using this information? Unfortunately, 
> the links you quote below do not provide much information about where 
> this information is used (other than bibref table in UDD).

For the (science) Pure Blends, this information is displayed in the
tasks pages:

https://blends.debian.org/astro/tasks/iraf#iraf

Best

Ole

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#10850 — Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.

FromPaul Wise <pabs@debian.org>
Date2019-07-26 03:40 +0200
SubjectRe: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.
Message-ID<ynXnb-6Ns-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10835
On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 4:28 PM Charles Plessy wrote:

> This is why some packges are shipping metadata indicating where to find
> the upstream sources, send upstream bugs, or even where to dontate
> money, in order to help our users contribute back to the developement
> of the software that Debian is made of.
>
> For many of you, I am sure that it is only a reminder.  But in any case
> please have a look at https://wiki.debian.org/debian/upstream and
> https://wiki.debian.org/AppStream for details.

You might want to copy this reminder to Misc Dev News:

https://wiki.debian.org/DeveloperNews

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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#10855 — on using the wrong mailinglists (Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.)

FromHolger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>
Date2019-07-26 18:40 +0200
Subjecton using the wrong mailinglists (Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.)
Message-ID<yobq9-7dl-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10835

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 05:27:51PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> (posted on -project because of the context, but answers probably
> belong to -devel, where I am not subscribed...)

I understand we live in strange times, but pleaaaaaaaaaaase, if your
content belongs on -devel, but you are neither subscribed to -devel nor
-project then

a.) please *dont* post to -private instead
b.) either subscribe to -devel and post there or
c.) dont subscribe to -devel and post there and ask to be cc:ed.

Technical discussions about the development of Debian belong to
debian-devel@.

Thank you very much, HTH, HAND.


--
cheers,
	Holger


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
               holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org
       PGP fingerprint: B8BF 5413 7B09 D35C F026 FE9D 091A B856 069A AA1C

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#10861 — Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.

FromChris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org>
Date2019-07-29 11:20 +0200
SubjectRe: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.
Message-ID<yp9YZ-4Mu-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10835
* Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> [190725 10:28]:
> For many of you, I am sure that it is only a reminder.  But in any case
> please have a look at https://wiki.debian.org/debian/upstream and
> https://wiki.debian.org/AppStream for details.

Someone else has asked me recently to ship a
debian/upstream/metadata file, and I now have questions:

http://upstream-metadata.debian.net appears to be dead. Are there
any easy to use tools that help validate/parse the metadata for
developers?

Is there a canonical documentation of useful fields for
debian/upstream/metadata? Why do we not have examples in the Wiki?

With the current state of the upstream metadata docs, I was about to
abandon the effort of adding metadata. It's not clear at all which
fields are useful, how a "normal" file looks like, what it contains,
...
Skimming the wiki gives me the impression its only useful for
academic citations.
Using codesearch, one will see many different formats in use, with
almost no overlapping fields. I'm not sure how any centralized data
collector should deal with this, and what they would be getting out
of it.

Is the debian upstream data now redundant/obsoleted by AppStream?

Thanks,
Chris

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#10862 — Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.

FromPaul Wise <pabs@debian.org>
Date2019-07-29 13:30 +0200
SubjectRe: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.
Message-ID<ypc0N-634-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10861
On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 5:18 PM Chris Hofstaedtler wrote:

> http://upstream-metadata.debian.net appears to be dead.

>From the wiki:

Help! there is a bug that I do not manage to solve by myself. -- Charles
https://lists.debian.org/debian-qa/2014/06/msg00022.html

> Is there a canonical documentation of useful fields for
> debian/upstream/metadata? Why do we not have examples in the Wiki?

https://wiki.debian.org/UpstreamMetadata

> Is the debian upstream data now redundant/obsoleted by AppStream?

I think they serve overlapping but somewhat different purposes, for
example coreutils isn't going to have an AppStream file but upstream
metadata is useful for it.

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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#10883 — Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute. [and 1 more messages]

FromIan Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Date2019-08-06 18:00 +0200
SubjectRe: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute. [and 1 more messages]
Message-ID<ysa2u-45t-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10862
Paul Wise writes ("Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute."):
> https://wiki.debian.org/UpstreamMetadata

Alex Muntada writes ("Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute."):
> We use debian/upstream/metadata in the Perl team to easily
> obtain the CPAN distribution name and the bug tracker URL,
> so we can forward patches to CPAN RT or GitHub or mail them
> to the upstream authors:
> 
> https://manpages.debian.org/unstable/pkg-perl-tools/dpt-forward.1.en.html

Thanks for these links etc.

I have bounced them to the Debian bug where I requested that dgit do
something useful with this information.

Ian.

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#10863 — Re: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.

FromAlex Muntada <alexm@debian.org>
Date2019-07-29 13:40 +0200
SubjectRe: Upstream metadata to help our users contribute back to projects we redistribute.
Message-ID<ypcat-66g-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10861

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi Chris,

> With the current state of the upstream metadata docs, I was
> about to abandon the effort of adding metadata. It's not clear
> at all which fields are useful, how a "normal" file looks like,
> what it contains, ...
> Skimming the wiki gives me the impression its only useful for
> academic citations.

We use debian/upstream/metadata in the Perl team to easily
obtain the CPAN distribution name and the bug tracker URL,
so we can forward patches to CPAN RT or GitHub or mail them
to the upstream authors:

https://manpages.debian.org/unstable/pkg-perl-tools/dpt-forward.1.en.html

When the upstream metadata doesn't exist we try to get that
information from other places (i.e. META.*, debian/control,
debian/copyright, etc.).

For us, having upstream metadata is useful to record that
a particular contact method is preferred by upstream. Even
though there are only a handful of cases where they prefer
to be contacted by mail, those are very important to keep a
healthy relationship.

Hope this helps,
Alex

--
  ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
  ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁   Alex Muntada <alexm@debian.org>
  ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋   Debian Developer 🍥 log.alexm.org
  ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀

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