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Groups > linux.debian.project > #10986 > unrolled thread

Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?

Started by"Chris Lamb" <lamby@debian.org>
First post2019-09-28 23:10 +0200
Last post2019-09-29 10:10 +0200
Articles 14 — 13 participants

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  Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC? "Chris Lamb" <lamby@debian.org> - 2019-09-28 23:10 +0200
    Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC? Laura Arjona Reina <larjona@debian.org> - 2019-09-29 01:00 +0200
      Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC? Andy Simpkins <andy@koipond.org.uk> - 2019-09-29 01:50 +0200
    Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent  Imaging LLC? Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2019-09-29 02:20 +0200
      Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent  Imaging LLC? Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2019-09-29 11:40 +0200
        Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent  Imaging LLC? Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2019-09-29 13:10 +0200
          Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent  Imaging LLC? Samuel Henrique <samueloph@debian.org> - 2019-09-29 19:10 +0200
    Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent  Imaging LLC? Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2019-09-29 02:30 +0200
      Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent  Imaging LLC? Paul Tagliamonte <paultag@debian.org> - 2019-09-29 03:10 +0200
        Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent  Imaging LLC? Neil McGovern <neilm@debian.org> - 2019-09-30 15:30 +0200
          Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent  Imaging LLC? Neil McGovern <neilm@debian.org> - 2019-10-22 11:30 +0200
            Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC. Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-10-28 17:40 +0100
    Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent  Imaging LLC? Yao Wei <mwei@debian.org> - 2019-09-29 04:40 +0200
    Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC? Zlatan <zlatan@riseup.net> - 2019-09-29 10:10 +0200

#10986 — Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?

From"Chris Lamb" <lamby@debian.org>
Date2019-09-28 23:10 +0200
SubjectStanding behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?
Message-ID<yLs8x-75h-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
Dear -project,

For those not yet aware, Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC has filed a
lawsuit against the GNOME Foundation on the grounds that their
"Shotwell" photo manager violates patent §9,936,086:

  https://www.gnome.org/news/2019/09/gnome-foundation-facing-lawsuit-from-rothschild-patent-imaging/

If we can leave the legal merits of this specific case or of software
patents in general for another time and venue, can I seek agreement
that the Debian Project would publically stand with the GNOME
Foundation against this attack on a cherished sister project of ours
and, by extension, on free software in general?

I plan to draft and publish a short "micronews" statement if there is
consensus here.


Regards,

-- 
      ,''`.
     : :'  :     Chris Lamb
     `. `'`      lamby@debian.org 🍥 chris-lamb.co.uk
       `-

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#10987

FromLaura Arjona Reina <larjona@debian.org>
Date2019-09-29 01:00 +0200
Message-ID<yLtR0-7Y7-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10986
Hi

El 28 de septiembre de 2019 23:04:03 CEST, Chris Lamb <lamby@debian.org> escribió:
>Dear -project,
>
>For those not yet aware, Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC has filed a
>lawsuit against the GNOME Foundation on the grounds that their
>"Shotwell" photo manager violates patent §9,936,086:
>
>https://www.gnome.org/news/2019/09/gnome-foundation-facing-lawsuit-from-rothschild-patent-imaging/
>
>If we can leave the legal merits of this specific case or of software
>patents in general for another time and venue, can I seek agreement
>that the Debian Project would publically stand with the GNOME
>Foundation against this attack on a cherished sister project of ours
>and, by extension, on free software in general? 
>

Personal opinion: I agree.

>I plan to draft and publish a short "micronews" statement if there is
>consensus here.
>

Thanks for volunteering :-)

With my publicity hat on, I think it's better an article in bits.debian.org. It does not need to be long. The title and link to it would be published as micronews too.

Kind regards,

-- 
Laura Arjona Reina
https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona
Sent with K-9 mail

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#10989

FromAndy Simpkins <andy@koipond.org.uk>
Date2019-09-29 01:50 +0200
Message-ID<yLuDn-8un-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10987

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Having read the 'claim' being made, I for one, can not see there being a case to answer, however my experience does not cover the American patant/legal systems.  To me this looks like a classic case of patent tolling.  Any and all instaces of which SHOULD be taken into court to be struck down and the patent invalidated. On no account should these trolls be allowed to walk away without a legal rulling against them.

Neil
Where can I contribute to the war chest in order to help fund fighting this?

/Andy

On 28 September 2019 23:59:11 BST, Laura Arjona Reina <larjona@debian.org> wrote:
>Hi
>
>El 28 de septiembre de 2019 23:04:03 CEST, Chris Lamb
><lamby@debian.org> escribió:
>>Dear -project,
>>
>>For those not yet aware, Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC has filed a
>>lawsuit against the GNOME Foundation on the grounds that their
>>"Shotwell" photo manager violates patent §9,936,086:
>>
>>https://www.gnome.org/news/2019/09/gnome-foundation-facing-lawsuit-from-rothschild-patent-imaging/
>>
>>If we can leave the legal merits of this specific case or of software
>>patents in general for another time and venue, can I seek agreement
>>that the Debian Project would publically stand with the GNOME
>>Foundation against this attack on a cherished sister project of ours
>>and, by extension, on free software in general? 
>>
>
>Personal opinion: I agree.
>
>>I plan to draft and publish a short "micronews" statement if there is
>>consensus here.
>>
>
>Thanks for volunteering :-)
>
>With my publicity hat on, I think it's better an article in
>bits.debian.org. It does not need to be long. The title and link to it
>would be published as micronews too.
>
>Kind regards,
>
>-- 
>Laura Arjona Reina
>https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona
>Sent with K-9 mail

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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#10990 — Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?

FromDon Armstrong <don@debian.org>
Date2019-09-29 02:20 +0200
SubjectRe: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?
Message-ID<yLv6p-st-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10986
On Sat, 28 Sep 2019, Chris Lamb wrote:
> For those not yet aware, Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC has filed a
> lawsuit against the GNOME Foundation on the grounds that their
> "Shotwell" photo manager violates patent §9,936,086:
> 
>   https://www.gnome.org/news/2019/09/gnome-foundation-facing-lawsuit-from-rothschild-patent-imaging/
> 
> If we can leave the legal merits of this specific case or of software
> patents in general for another time and venue, can I seek agreement
> that the Debian Project would publically stand with the GNOME
> Foundation against this attack on a cherished sister project of ours
> and, by extension, on free software in general?

I concur, especially as Debian also distributes shotwell.

-- 
Don Armstrong                      https://www.donarmstrong.com

"She decided what she wished to happen and then assumed that reality
would bend to her wishes." [...] "Reality doesn't indulge wishes."
 -- Terry Goodkind _Phantom_ p133

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#10998 — Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?

FromHolger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org>
Date2019-09-29 11:40 +0200
SubjectRe: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?
Message-ID<yLDQm-5YN-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10990

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 05:04:47PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
> I concur, especially as Debian also distributes shotwell.
 
+1


-- 
cheers,
	Holger

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
               holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org
       PGP fingerprint: B8BF 5413 7B09 D35C F026 FE9D 091A B856 069A AA1C

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#11006 — Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?

FromAdam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl>
Date2019-09-29 13:10 +0200
SubjectRe: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?
Message-ID<yLFfs-704-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10998
On Sun, Sep 29, 2019 at 09:34:48AM +0000, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 05:04:47PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
> > I concur, especially as Debian also distributes shotwell.
>  
> +1

And as someone who doesn't use shotwell, and has strong opinions against
many things done by Gnome:

big fat +1

-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ A MAP07 (Dead Simple) raspberry tincture recipe: 0.5l 95% alcohol,
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ 1kg raspberries, 0.4kg sugar; put into a big jar for 1 month.
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ Filter out and throw away the fruits (can dump them into a cake,
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ etc), let the drink age at least 3-6 months.

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#11020 — Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?

FromSamuel Henrique <samueloph@debian.org>
Date2019-09-29 19:10 +0200
SubjectRe: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?
Message-ID<yLKRP-27P-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#11006

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Totally agree, and thanks for bringing that up!


-- 
Samuel Henrique <samueloph>

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#10991 — Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?

FromNorbert Preining <norbert@preining.info>
Date2019-09-29 02:30 +0200
SubjectRe: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?
Message-ID<yLvg5-vV-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10986
On Sat, 28 Sep 2019, Chris Lamb wrote:
> that the Debian Project would publically stand with the GNOME
> Foundation against this attack on a cherished sister project of ours
> and, by extension, on free software in general?

Totally agreed, thanks a lot.
I have invested lots of code into Shotwell over the years, and it hurts
to see these patent trolls.

Norbert

--
PREINING Norbert                               http://www.preining.info
Accelia Inc. + IFMGA ProGuide + TU Wien + JAIST + TeX Live + Debian Dev
GPG: 0x860CDC13   fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13

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#10993 — Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?

FromPaul Tagliamonte <paultag@debian.org>
Date2019-09-29 03:10 +0200
SubjectRe: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?
Message-ID<yLvSO-YN-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10991

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Aye aye! We should distribute a fundraising site more widely among Debian
for anyone in our community who is willing to donate to the collective
defense of our tools.

paultag

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 8:28 PM Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info>
wrote:

> On Sat, 28 Sep 2019, Chris Lamb wrote:
> > that the Debian Project would publically stand with the GNOME
> > Foundation against this attack on a cherished sister project of ours
> > and, by extension, on free software in general?
>
> Totally agreed, thanks a lot.
> I have invested lots of code into Shotwell over the years, and it hurts
> to see these patent trolls.
>
> Norbert
>
> --
> PREINING Norbert                               http://www.preining.info
> Accelia Inc. + IFMGA ProGuide + TU Wien + JAIST + TeX Live + Debian Dev
> GPG: 0x860CDC13   fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13
>
>

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#11031 — Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?

FromNeil McGovern <neilm@debian.org>
Date2019-09-30 15:30 +0200
SubjectRe: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?
Message-ID<yM3Ut-5Nm-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10993

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Thanks Chris and all for the support that's been shown in this thread,
it really does mean a lot while we're going through this complex period.

On Sun, Sep 29, 2019 at 12:25:53AM +0100, Andy Simpkins wrote:
> Having read the 'claim' being made, I for one, can not see there being
> a case to answer, however my experience does not cover the American
> patant/legal systems.  To me this looks like a classic case of patent
> tolling.  Any and all instaces of which SHOULD be taken into court to
> be struck down and the patent invalidated. On no account should these
> trolls be allowed to walk away without a legal rulling against them.
>

At the moment, I'm not going to publicly state our strategy or position
on the patent in question, as anything I do say wouldn't be legally
privileged. However, I think I can say that my concern isn't just about
GNOME and this case, but how free software projects are affected by this
sort of patent activity more widely.

On Sun, Sep 29, 2019 at 12:25:53AM +0100, Andy Simpkins wrote:
> Where can I contribute to the war chest in order to help fund fighting this?
On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 09:03:37PM -0400, Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
> Aye aye! We should distribute a fundraising site more widely among Debian
> for anyone in our community who is willing to donate to the collective
> defense of our tools.

At the point when we require significant funds to fight this, I'll
address it. At the moment, we're very much in the preliminary stages of
this legal case. More generally, I'm talking to other folk around how to
make sure that GNOME and free software isn't attacked in future.

Apologies for not being able to provide more clarity at this stage, I'm
sure you'll understand why!

Neil
--

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#11134 — Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?

FromNeil McGovern <neilm@debian.org>
Date2019-10-22 11:30 +0200
SubjectRe: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?
Message-ID<yTYEi-6lu-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#11031

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 02:29:38PM +0100, Neil McGovern wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 29, 2019 at 12:25:53AM +0100, Andy Simpkins wrote:
> > Where can I contribute to the war chest in order to help fund fighting this?
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 09:03:37PM -0400, Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
> > Aye aye! We should distribute a fundraising site more widely among Debian
> > for anyone in our community who is willing to donate to the collective
> > defense of our tools.
> 
> At the point when we require significant funds to fight this, I'll
> address it. At the moment, we're very much in the preliminary stages of
> this legal case. More generally, I'm talking to other folk around how to
> make sure that GNOME and free software isn't attacked in future.
> 
> Apologies for not being able to provide more clarity at this stage, I'm
> sure you'll understand why!
> 

For those not following closely, we've now filed our motion to dismiss,
response and counterclaim:
https://www.gnome.org/news/2019/10/gnome-files-defense-against-patent-troll/

Our strategy is to not only get the case dropped or dismissed, but to
take out the patent as well. We do need funds to do this, and for those
who are kind enough to donate, please do so at
https://secure.givelively.org/donate/gnome-foundation-inc/gnome-patent-troll-defense-fund

If you can't, please help spread the word.

Neil
--

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#11137 — Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC.

FromSam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org>
Date2019-10-28 17:40 +0100
SubjectRe: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC.
Message-ID<yWgdK-4cF-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#11134

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

  Debian has pledged to donate  $5,000.00 to the GNOME Foundation; see [1].

  [1]:
  https://bits.debian.org/2019/10/debian-donates-support-gnome-patent-defense.html


I asked on debian-private and there was a very strong consensus (no
objections) in favor of this step.
I chose to have the discussion in private because I thought that the PR
impact would be better if someone didn't jump on the discussion and turn
that into an announcement before we were ready.

However, this step did have very wide support in the developer community
for the reasons we've discussed in our blog posts on the GNOME case.

If GNOME needs more money later, I am contemplating running a matching
campaign to help them out.
I think I already have the necessary project support I'd need to take
that step.

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#10995 — Re: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?

FromYao Wei <mwei@debian.org>
Date2019-09-29 04:40 +0200
SubjectRe: Standing behind GNOME Foundation against Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC?
Message-ID<yLxhT-1Qe-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10986

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 09:04:03PM -0000, Chris Lamb wrote:
> If we can leave the legal merits of this specific case or of software
> patents in general for another time and venue, can I seek agreement
> that the Debian Project would publically stand with the GNOME
> Foundation against this attack on a cherished sister project of ours
> and, by extension, on free software in general?

I am in support of this public message.

Yao Wei

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#10996

FromZlatan <zlatan@riseup.net>
Date2019-09-29 10:10 +0200
Message-ID<yLCrf-5eb-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
In reply to#10986

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

+1

Absolutely in support against this cancerous troll organization.

Z

On September 28, 2019 11:04:03 PM GMT+02:00, Chris Lamb <lamby@debian.org> wrote:
>Dear -project,
>
>For those not yet aware, Rothschild Patent Imaging LLC has filed a
>lawsuit against the GNOME Foundation on the grounds that their
>"Shotwell" photo manager violates patent §9,936,086:
>
>https://www.gnome.org/news/2019/09/gnome-foundation-facing-lawsuit-from-rothschild-patent-imaging/
>
>If we can leave the legal merits of this specific case or of software
>patents in general for another time and venue, can I seek agreement
>that the Debian Project would publically stand with the GNOME
>Foundation against this attack on a cherished sister project of ours
>and, by extension, on free software in general?
>
>I plan to draft and publish a short "micronews" statement if there is
>consensus here.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>-- 
>      ,''`.
>     : :'  :     Chris Lamb
>     `. `'`      lamby@debian.org 🍥 chris-lamb.co.uk
>       `-

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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