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Debian slogan / tag line / emphasizing freedom

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  Debian slogan / tag line / emphasizing freedom Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.pro> - 2016-06-07 11:30 +0200
    Re: Debian slogan / tag line / emphasizing freedom Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2016-06-07 12:00 +0200
    Re: Debian slogan / tag line / emphasizing freedom Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2016-06-07 12:30 +0200
      Re: Debian slogan / tag line / emphasizing freedom Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.pro> - 2016-06-07 13:30 +0200
        Re: Debian slogan / tag line / emphasizing freedom Paul Tagliamonte <paultag@debian.org> - 2016-06-07 14:00 +0200
          Re: Debian slogan / tag line / emphasizing freedom Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.pro> - 2016-06-07 15:20 +0200
            Re: Debian slogan / tag line / emphasizing freedom Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2016-06-07 15:30 +0200
      Re: Debian slogan / tag line / emphasizing freedom Zlatan Todoric <zlatan@riseup.net> - 2016-06-07 13:40 +0200
      Re: Debian slogan / tag line / emphasizing freedom Paul Tagliamonte <paultag@debian.org> - 2016-06-07 14:00 +0200
        Re: Debian slogan / tag line / emphasizing freedom Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2016-06-07 14:00 +0200
          Re: Debian slogan / tag line / emphasizing freedom Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.pro> - 2016-06-07 15:30 +0200
    Re: Debian slogan / tag line / emphasizing freedom Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-06-07 13:50 +0200
    Re: Debian slogan / tag line / emphasizing freedom Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2016-06-07 20:10 +0200
      Re: Debian slogan / tag line / emphasizing freedom Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.pro> - 2016-06-08 07:40 +0200

#8708 — Debian slogan / tag line / emphasizing freedom

Debian has been using the slogan / tag line "The Universal Operating
System" for as long as I can remember.

It is a good choice and it represents the aims of many contributors, but
is it the optimal choice today?

For example, has there ever been discussion about replacing it with a
slogan that puts an emphasis on freedom, another value that is important
to many contributors?

E.g. "Powering your freedom", "Enabling your freedom", "The free
platform", "The universal free OS", etc

It would be interesting to consider this in the lead up to the next
stable release.

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#8709

Le Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 11:20:53AM +0200, Daniel Pocock a écrit :
> 
> Debian has been using the slogan / tag line "The Universal Operating
> System" for as long as I can remember.
> 
> It is a good choice and it represents the aims of many contributors, but
> is it the optimal choice today?
> 
> For example, has there ever been discussion about replacing it with a
> slogan that puts an emphasis on freedom, another value that is important
> to many contributors?
> 
> E.g. "Powering your freedom", "Enabling your freedom", "The free
> platform", "The universal free OS", etc

Hi Daniel,

good point, in my opinion.

"Universal" has been quite efficient in fuelling disagreement on what it means,
on the same level as other keywords such as "choice", etc.

On the other hand, by definition we stand united on what Free means for our project.

So on my side I would welcome putting "freedom" somewhere under the Debian logo.

Have a nice day,

-- 
Charles Plessy
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan

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#8710

On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 11:20:53AM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> Debian has been using the slogan / tag line "The Universal Operating
> System" for as long as I can remember.
> 
> It is a good choice and it represents the aims of many contributors, but
> is it the optimal choice today?

Make Debian Great Again.
</troll>

-- 
An imaginary friend squared is a real enemy.

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#8711

On 07/06/16 12:22, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 11:20:53AM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>> Debian has been using the slogan / tag line "The Universal Operating
>> System" for as long as I can remember.
>>
>> It is a good choice and it represents the aims of many contributors, but
>> is it the optimal choice today?
> Make Debian Great Again.

That sounds more political than product oriented.

Some organizations use latin for a motto: how about veni, vidi, contributi?

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#8714

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On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 01:27:34PM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> Some organizations use latin for a motto: how about veni, vidi, contributi?

(I think this is a bit tacky)

Most organizations just plain don't have one. If they do, it's humorous.

I don't have a problem with "The Universal Operating System", and I feel
like this thread is just one huge bike shed if not waiting to happen,
then plans are being drawn up.

I see two options:

 1. No one can work up the energy to care (status quo)
 2. We get rid of the tagline

I vote 1 > fd > 2

Cheers,
  paultag

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#8717

On 07/06/16 13:53, Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 01:27:34PM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>> Some organizations use latin for a motto: how about veni, vidi, contributi?
> (I think this is a bit tacky)
Agreed, it was deliberately comical.  The original form, veni, vidi,
vici may vaguely be connected with the well known figure who lurks
behind Adam's suggestion.  I'm not sure any of my concepts are as great
as the current slogan, they were simply provided to give examples of
other directions it could go.

>
> Most organizations just plain don't have one. If they do, it's humorous.

Like "For the Game".  Now there is a side-game improvising on the slogan
to reflect the current state of said organization[1].

>
> I don't have a problem with "The Universal Operating System", and I feel
> like this thread is just one huge bike shed if not waiting to happen,
> then plans are being drawn up.
>
> I see two options:
>
>  1. No one can work up the energy to care (status quo)
>  2. We get rid of the tagline
>
> I vote 1 > fd > 2

I agree it could be seen that way but I think it is a long way from any
vote.

Many organizations also spend far more time and money on consultants
helping them with such bike shedding/refreshing their slogan every few
years than they invest on their culture and character.

The current slogan is great and I would be disappointed if any comments
appeared disparaging it as that is not the intention of this thread. 
Apart from the reference to freedom, another thing that comes to mind is
that it doesn't exactly refer to the great community.

If somebody does have a great idea though they are very welcome to share it.

A couple of other ideas also come to mind:

- having different slogans for the product and for the organization

- having a tag line for each release, highlighting something innovative
like speed, privacy or security

Regards,

Daniel


1.
http://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/news/y=2007/m=5/news=for-the-game-for-the-world-new-fifa-slogan-brings-social-responsibilit-529894.html

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#8719

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On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 03:18:23PM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> - having a tag line for each release, highlighting something innovative
> like speed, privacy or security
 
I like "Debian, where code matters more than commercials".


-- 
cheers,
	Holger

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#8712

Hi,

On 06/07/2016 12:22 PM, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 11:20:53AM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>> Debian has been using the slogan / tag line "The Universal Operating
>> System" for as long as I can remember.
>>
>> It is a good choice and it represents the aims of many contributors, but
>> is it the optimal choice today?
> 
> Make Debian Great Again.
> </troll>
> 

I know you were joking but I didn't find it comfortable. Is Debian not
Great anymore?

Did you (and everyone else) try to sit for a moment and think about
leaving Debian for alternative. I surely tried to leave my comfort zones
and asked myself such question.

Trust me (or even better, don't and explore) - there isn't better place
on this small rock called planet Earth. Something that is community
driven for more than two decades is a feature of itself. What this
community did is a thing that can easily define future of society and
its benefits.

Even with all our problems we have (but understand that we are doing
technical and nowdays even socially sensitive work while collaborating
with hundreds and thousands of people from different social and cultural
backgrounds) we are still the most pure and natural evolving society.
Yes, Debian is a society rather than only an anarcho-doocratic hacker
collective.

We became more welcoming for everyone and while that maybe (I am not
saying it did at all) slowed a bit technical development - the future
impact it will have is this:

We will grow more than we could imagine, we adapted to natural way and
our development will start to grow more and more and Debian will (like
it or not) change but I am not afraid of change as we will uphold our
Social Contract and our guidelines. In other words - we will uphold FREEDOM.

My 2c on this.

Cheers,

zlatan

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#8715

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On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 12:22:51PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> Make Debian Great Again.

Because a few people seem confused, this is the slogan of the U.S.
reality TV star turned politician Donald Trump.

This is clearly a joke, and I doubt Adam was aligning himself with Mr.
Trump's views on how he'd make America "Great Again".

Cheers,
  Paul

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#8716

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On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 07:50:25AM -0400, Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 12:22:51PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> > Make Debian Great Again.
> Because a few people seem confused, this is the slogan of the U.S.
> reality TV star turned politician Donald Trump.

Trump even stole this slogan from Ronny Reagan…


-- 
cheers,
	Holger

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#8718

On 07/06/16 13:53, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 07:50:25AM -0400, Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 07, 2016 at 12:22:51PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
>>> Make Debian Great Again.
>> Because a few people seem confused, this is the slogan of the U.S.
>> reality TV star turned politician Donald Trump.
> Trump even stole this slogan from Ronny Reagan…
>
>

Careful, you should prefix statements like that with "allegedly" or
he'll either turn his lawyers on you or tell the world you are a Mexican

By the way, has there been any spike in applications for Mexican
passports since Trump started disparaging them?

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#8713

Daniel Pocock writes ("Debian slogan / tag line / emphasizing freedom"):
> Debian has been using the slogan / tag line "The Universal Operating
> System" for as long as I can remember.
> 
> It is a good choice and it represents the aims of many contributors, but
> is it the optimal choice today?

I think it's a great slogan.  It represents our view that everyone
should be able to use Debian for their own, often wildly diverging,
purposes.

> For example, has there ever been discussion about replacing it with a
> slogan that puts an emphasis on freedom, another value that is important
> to many contributors?
> 
> E.g. "Powering your freedom", "Enabling your freedom", "The free
> platform", "The universal free OS", etc
> 
> It would be interesting to consider this in the lead up to the next
> stable release.

I don't think we need to mention freedom in our slogan.  Doing so
would be trite.

Ian.

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#8720

Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.pro> writes:

> Debian has been using the slogan / tag line "The Universal Operating
> System" for as long as I can remember.

> It is a good choice and it represents the aims of many contributors, but
> is it the optimal choice today?

> For example, has there ever been discussion about replacing it with a
> slogan that puts an emphasis on freedom, another value that is important
> to many contributors?

That's always spoken to freedom to me, since something that isn't free
can't be universal.  By definition, access to it is restricted in some way
to some blessed set of people, either by money or by some other legal
arrangement, which is the opposite of universal.

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org)               <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

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#8721

On 07/06/16 20:01, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.pro> writes:
> 
>> Debian has been using the slogan / tag line "The Universal Operating
>> System" for as long as I can remember.
> 
>> It is a good choice and it represents the aims of many contributors, but
>> is it the optimal choice today?
> 
>> For example, has there ever been discussion about replacing it with a
>> slogan that puts an emphasis on freedom, another value that is important
>> to many contributors?
> 
> That's always spoken to freedom to me, since something that isn't free
> can't be universal.  By definition, access to it is restricted in some way
> to some blessed set of people, either by money or by some other legal
> arrangement, which is the opposite of universal.
> 

Free may imply universality, but the opposite isn't true.  The NSA aims
to achieve universal coverage, but does that give people more freedom or
less?

I'd suggest that universal is a slightly neutral term with respect to
freedom.

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