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Re: XLibre in Debian

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  Re: XLibre in Debian Gerardo Ballabio <gerardo.ballabio@gmail.com> - 2025-10-10 10:40 +0200
    Re: XLibre in Debian <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2025-10-10 11:00 +0200
      GUI toolkits [Was: Re: XLibre in Debian] Peter Pentchev <roam@ringlet.net> - 2025-10-10 11:40 +0200
        Re: GUI toolkits [Was: Re: XLibre in Debian] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2025-10-10 12:10 +0200
    Re: XLibre in Debian wlipinski@posteo.net - 2025-10-10 19:50 +0200

#13986 — Re: XLibre in Debian

Wojciech Lipinski wrote:
> As a non-IT person
> who is involved in development of specialized simulation software
> (solar energy engineering), I feel uncertain about investing my time
> in solutions compatible with X11 or with Wayland.

Hello Wojciech,
I don't see why you should worry about that at all.
You need not develop an application that talks the X11 or Wayland
protocol directly. Nobody does that, it would be like reinventing the
wheel. If you use one of the most common graphical toolkits (e.g.,
Gtk+ or Qt), it is my understanding that they support both protocols
transparently.
I have been developing a few programs with Gtk+ and when I switched my
Debian system from X11 to Wayland (if I'm not mistaken that was with
the Bookworm release) they simply kept working, I didn't need to do
anything.
Do you actually have any specific requirements that either X11 or
Wayland would not support (and would XLibre change anything to that
respect)?

Gerardo

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#13987

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On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 10:19:48AM +0200, Gerardo Ballabio wrote:
> Wojciech Lipinski wrote:
> > As a non-IT person
> > who is involved in development of specialized simulation software
> > (solar energy engineering), I feel uncertain about investing my time
> > in solutions compatible with X11 or with Wayland.
> 
> Hello Wojciech,
> I don't see why you should worry about that at all.
> You need not develop an application that talks the X11 or Wayland
> protocol directly. Nobody does that, it would be like reinventing the
> wheel. If you use one of the most common graphical toolkits (e.g.,
> Gtk+ or Qt), it is my understanding that they support both protocols
> transparently.

Not Wojcieh here, but... if you could propose something which is less
of a monster than Gtk of Qt, I'd be all ears!

Nearly 20 years ago I made a couple of Gtk applications (Gtk2 back
then), one of which is still in use. Having followed Gtk's development,
nowadays I'd pass, thankyouverymuch.

Today, I think I'd go with Tk or something.

Cheers
-- 
t

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#13988 — GUI toolkits [Was: Re: XLibre in Debian]

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On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 10:43:15AM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 10:19:48AM +0200, Gerardo Ballabio wrote:
> > Wojciech Lipinski wrote:
> > > As a non-IT person
> > > who is involved in development of specialized simulation software
> > > (solar energy engineering), I feel uncertain about investing my time
> > > in solutions compatible with X11 or with Wayland.
> > 
> > Hello Wojciech,
> > I don't see why you should worry about that at all.
> > You need not develop an application that talks the X11 or Wayland
> > protocol directly. Nobody does that, it would be like reinventing the
> > wheel. If you use one of the most common graphical toolkits (e.g.,
> > Gtk+ or Qt), it is my understanding that they support both protocols
> > transparently.
> 
> Not Wojcieh here, but... if you could propose something which is less
> of a monster than Gtk of Qt, I'd be all ears!
> 
> Nearly 20 years ago I made a couple of Gtk applications (Gtk2 back
> then), one of which is still in use. Having followed Gtk's development,
> nowadays I'd pass, thankyouverymuch.
> 
> Today, I think I'd go with Tk or something.

Well, there is always Fltk, and some people would also mention wxWindows.

G'luck,
Peter

-- 
Peter Pentchev  roam@ringlet.net roam@debian.org peter@morpheusly.com
PGP key:        https://www.ringlet.net/roam/roam.key.asc
Key fingerprint 2EE7 A7A5 17FC 124C F115  C354 651E EFB0 2527 DF13

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#13989 — Re: GUI toolkits [Was: Re: XLibre in Debian]

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On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 12:03:25PM +0300, Peter Pentchev wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 10:43:15AM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> > Today, I think I'd go with Tk or something.
> 
> Well, there is always Fltk, and some people would also mention wxWindows.

Fltk is c++-heavy, that's something I dislike. But it seems to have a
Wayland backend, good. I have little idea about wxWindows, will look
into it -- thanks :)

Cheers
-- 
t

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#13990

Thank you Gerardo for the hints. Indeed, I hope to not have to go
to the level of XLib or wlroots. I tend to converge towards a simpler solution
than writing any graphical interface, even if GTK (and Cairo) are some
viable options. I will most likely keep my work entirely separate from any
display protocol/graphical environment developments in the GNU/Linux
world by using well-proven third-party tools like Gnuplot as long as the Gnuplot
functionality under Wayland improves (I do not want to use XWayland or similar,
nested layers). A similar philosophy for visualization is applied in
GNU Octave (it uses QT to display Gnuplot plots). On my system
(Trixie with hyprland from Sid), I cannot get on-screen, real-time
or interactive plots yet, as there seem to be no suitable Wayland-compatible
Gnuplot terminal in my Gnuplot installation (v6.0, from Trixie) yet
unless I have overlooked something essential here.

I hope the situation with GNU/Linux graphics improves in the near future
and either the Wayland ecosystem matures faster or the X11-based
ecosystem is modernized and continued if the transition to Wayland will
require users like me to wait for a few more years. Wayland already works
very well on my mobile devices with Ubuntu Touch (I hope to run Mobian in
the near future!) though.

Thanks to all for this constructive discussion.

Wojciech

On 2025 Oct 10  10:19, Gerardo Ballabio wrote:
>Wojciech Lipinski wrote:
>> As a non-IT person
>> who is involved in development of specialized simulation software
>> (solar energy engineering), I feel uncertain about investing my time
>> in solutions compatible with X11 or with Wayland.
>
>Hello Wojciech,
>I don't see why you should worry about that at all.
>You need not develop an application that talks the X11 or Wayland
>protocol directly. Nobody does that, it would be like reinventing the
>wheel. If you use one of the most common graphical toolkits (e.g.,
>Gtk+ or Qt), it is my understanding that they support both protocols
>transparently.
>I have been developing a few programs with Gtk+ and when I switched my
>Debian system from X11 to Wayland (if I'm not mistaken that was with
>the Bookworm release) they simply kept working, I didn't need to do
>anything.
>Do you actually have any specific requirements that either X11 or
>Wayland would not support (and would XLibre change anything to that
>respect)?
>
>Gerardo

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