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Support for non-free-firmware in project webpages

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  Support for non-free-firmware in project webpages Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2023-01-19 17:50 +0100
    Re: Support for non-free-firmware in project webpages Cyril Brulebois <kibi@debian.org> - 2023-01-22 16:10 +0100
      Re: Support for non-free-firmware in project webpages Bill Allombert <ballombe@debian.org> - 2023-01-22 16:20 +0100
      Re: Support for non-free-firmware in project webpages Bill Allombert <ballombe@debian.org> - 2023-01-26 13:00 +0100
      Re: Support for non-free-firmware in project webpages Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2023-01-27 14:00 +0100
        Re: Support for non-free-firmware in project webpages Bill Allombert <ballombe@debian.org> - 2023-01-27 14:10 +0100
          Re: Support for non-free-firmware in project webpages Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2023-01-31 15:40 +0100
            Re: Support for non-free-firmware in project webpages Bill Allombert <ballombe@debian.org> - 2023-01-31 18:30 +0100
              Re: Support for non-free-firmware in project webpages Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2023-02-08 16:20 +0100

#13155 — Support for non-free-firmware in project webpages

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Hello,

I was asking around in IRC about moving firmware packages to
non-free-firmware, and was refered to Cyril Brulebois' message from
two days ago¹ — Seems the wheels are finally turning to populate it!

¹ https://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2023/01/msg00150.html

As of right now, we have only one package in that suite, and it's
somewhat hard to debug from there ;-) But I think it's time to bring
the fact that non-free-firmware has to be enabled in several of our
webpages to collective attention.

A couple of months ago I opened #1021728 to have the new suite enabled
in tracker.debian.org. Raphael Hertzog moved some bits and asked some
questions (which I left unanswered :-( Sorry!). But now, checking
onwards from there, I find packages.debian.org, buildd.debian.org and
qa.debian.org still don't recognize it:

    https://packages.debian.org/source/unstable/raspi-firmware
    https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=raspi-firmware
    https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=pkg-raspi-maintainers%40lists.alioth.debian.org

In IRC, Holger also mentioned:

- wiki.debian.org has no pages with the term `non-free-firmware' in
  them
- www.debian.org (plus its translations) mentions them, but only for
  the vote (english/vote/2022/vote_003.wml) and following announcement
  (english/News/2022/20221217.wml)
- tests.reproducible-builds.org/debian does not yet include it
- Neither debian-policy nor developers-reference know about it
- piuparts in unstable now supports it (although piuparts.debian.org
  is not yet testing it)

So... I'm going to try to push some of those bits, but wanted this to
be in the collective eyes as well :-] Please document other omissions,
or help fix them!


  Greetings,

    -Gunnar

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#13159

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Hi Bill,

Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> (2023-01-19):
> A couple of months ago I opened #1021728 to have the new suite enabled
> in tracker.debian.org. Raphael Hertzog moved some bits and asked some
> questions (which I left unanswered :-( Sorry!). But now, checking
> onwards from there, I find packages.debian.org, buildd.debian.org and
> qa.debian.org still don't recognize it:
> 
>     https://packages.debian.org/source/unstable/raspi-firmware
>     https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=raspi-firmware
>     https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=pkg-raspi-maintainers%40lists.alioth.debian.org
> 
> In IRC, Holger also mentioned:
> 
> - wiki.debian.org has no pages with the term `non-free-firmware' in
>   them
> - www.debian.org (plus its translations) mentions them, but only for
>   the vote (english/vote/2022/vote_003.wml) and following announcement
>   (english/News/2022/20221217.wml)
> - tests.reproducible-builds.org/debian does not yet include it
> - Neither debian-policy nor developers-reference know about it
> - piuparts in unstable now supports it (although piuparts.debian.org
>   is not yet testing it)

I might have overlooked better contact information, but couldn't find a
popcon.debian.org to report bugs against, or a repository for the server
side to file merge requests against.

I'm not sure how that works, but it'd be nice to add support for the
non-free-firmware component, which is going to be used starting with
bookworm.

Also, it /might/ be time to retire debian-non-US, obsolete since Sarge
(2005).


Cheers,
-- 
Cyril Brulebois (kibi@debian.org)            <https://debamax.com/>
D-I release manager -- Release team member -- Freelance Consultant

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#13160

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 03:43:38PM +0100, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> Hi Bill,
> 
> I might have overlooked better contact information, but couldn't find a
> popcon.debian.org to report bugs against, or a repository for the server
> side to file merge requests against.

There are a popularity-contest package you could have used!

> I'm not sure how that works, but it'd be nice to add support for the
> non-free-firmware component, which is going to be used starting with
> bookworm.

Done. Please check for the result tomorrow.

> Also, it /might/ be time to retire debian-non-US, obsolete since Sarge
> (2005).

The point is that there are still systems reporting it!

Cheers,
-- 
Bill. <ballombe@debian.org>

Imagine a large red swirl here. 

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#13164

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 03:43:38PM +0100, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> Hi Bill,
> 
> I might have overlooked better contact information, but couldn't find a
> popcon.debian.org to report bugs against, or a repository for the server
> side to file merge requests against.
> 
> I'm not sure how that works, but it'd be nice to add support for the
> non-free-firmware component, which is going to be used starting with
> bookworm.

It is listed now.
(note that popcon use the section information of sid for all version of the packages)

Cheers,
-- 
Bill. <ballombe@debian.org>

Imagine a large red swirl here. 

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#13165

Cyril Brulebois writes ("Re: Support for non-free-firmware in project webpages"):
> I might have overlooked better contact information, but couldn't find a
> popcon.debian.org to report bugs against, or a repository for the server
> side to file merge requests against.

I looked here:
  https://popcon.debian.org/
and then at the page footer.

It has
  [Popularity-contest project] by Avery Pennarun, Bill Allombert and
  Petter Reinholdtsen. 
where that's a link to
  https://salsa.debian.org/popularity-contest-team/popularity-contest

I think that is where the server side code lives ?  Ie, the code for
generating the charts reports ?  I grepped and found
  examples/bin/popcon.pl
which looks like it might be the right thing.

Would an MR to be more explicit about the precise code location be
welcome?  Soemthing like this perhaps.

  <a href="https://salsa.debian.org/popularity-contest-team/popularity-contest" > Popularity-contest project </a> by Avery Pennarun, Bill Allombert and Petter Reinholdtsen.
  <br>
+ This page generated by <a href="https://salsa.debian.org/popularity-contest-team/popularity-contest/-/blob/master/examples/bin/popcon.pl"><code>examples/bin/popcon.pl</code></a>
+ <br>

Thanks,
Ian.

-- 
Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk>   These opinions are my own.  

Pronouns: they/he.  If I emailed you from @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk,
that is a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.

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#13166

On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 11:41:10AM +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Cyril Brulebois writes ("Re: Support for non-free-firmware in project webpages"):
> > I might have overlooked better contact information, but couldn't find a
> > popcon.debian.org to report bugs against, or a repository for the server
> > side to file merge requests against.
> 
> I looked here:
>   https://popcon.debian.org/
> and then at the page footer.
> 
> It has
>   [Popularity-contest project] by Avery Pennarun, Bill Allombert and
>   Petter Reinholdtsen. 
> where that's a link to
>   https://salsa.debian.org/popularity-contest-team/popularity-contest
> 
> I think that is where the server side code lives ?  Ie, the code for
> generating the charts reports ?  I grepped and found
>   examples/bin/popcon.pl
> which looks like it might be the right thing.
> 
> Would an MR to be more explicit about the precise code location be
> welcome?

Actually I prefer bug reports against popularity-contest.
This link used to point to a page hosted on alioth that provided links
to the package page, BTS page and the alioth source repo.

Cheers,
-- 
Bill. <ballombe@debian.org>

Imagine a large red swirl here. 

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#13168

Bill Allombert writes ("Re: Support for non-free-firmware in project webpages"):
> On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 11:41:10AM +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:
> > Would an MR to be more explicit about the precise code location be
> > welcome?
> 
> Actually I prefer bug reports against popularity-contest.

I presume that someone who wants to fix something with the web page
should do so starting with the source code from salsa, though ?
After all, I guess the website probably isn't running off
the .debs from stable ?

> This link used to point to a page hosted on alioth that provided links
> to the package page, BTS page and the alioth source repo.

OK, great, but I'm not sure precisely now what patch I should send -
ie, what ought to be in the page footer.  Since you know the answers,
would you mind arranging that the popcon web pages contain the right
references ?

I think a reader (potential contributor) needs to know:

 * Where to get the source code for the actually deployed instance[1]
 * Where and in what form to send patches (or MRs, as the case may be)

Since in the general case, Debian services are managed by different
people in different ways, the reader won't be able to just guess the
answers to these questions.


[1] I think this means the git history, if the service source code is
maintained in git.

And the arrangements should be such that publication of the source
code for an updated deployment is automatic, rather than depending on
a manual release step (eg, an upload to sid).  If deployment is done
via git, this typically happens for free, since it's easy to make the
deployments happen from a branch which is also public.

If the deployment is done some other way then perhaps the software
should have a "download my own source code" feature.

Ian.

-- 
Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk>   These opinions are my own.  

Pronouns: they/he.  If I emailed you from @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk,
that is a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.

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#13169

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 02:31:44PM +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:
> 
> OK, great, but I'm not sure precisely now what patch I should send -
> ie, what ought to be in the page footer.  Since you know the answers,
> would you mind arranging that the popcon web pages contain the right
> references ?
> 
> I think a reader (potential contributor) needs to know:
> 
>  * Where to get the source code for the actually deployed instance[1]
>  * Where and in what form to send patches (or MRs, as the case may be)

The link in the footer points to a page on SALSA with all the informations
already. An extract:
""
FINDING THE SOURCE
==================

This package is being maintained in GIT on salsa.debian.org.
The project summary page is available from
<URL:https://salsa.debian.org/popularity-contest-team/popularity-contest>
The project home page is at <URL:https://popcon.debian.org/>.

REPORTING BUGS
==============

Report bugs into the Debian Bug Tracking System.  See
<URL:https://bugs.debian.org/> for instructions.  If you want to get in
touch with the popularity contest maintainers, send an email to
debian-popcon@lists.debian.org.
""

I could restore the missing popcon.alioth.d.o page but that does not seem
necessary.

Cheers,
-- 
Bill. <ballombe@debian.org>

Imagine a large red swirl here. 

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#13180

Bill Allombert writes ("Re: Support for non-free-firmware in project webpages"):
> The link in the footer points to a page on SALSA with all the informations
> already.

I had indeed found the page you link to.  But, for me it didn't answer
these questions.  Let me lead you through it.

The popcon.debian.org website page footer says:

  [Popularity-contest project] by Avery Pennarun, Bill Allombert and
  Petter Reinholdtsen.

I did indeed follow that link.  It is a link to

  https://salsa.debian.org/popularity-contest-team/popularity-contest

which starts with

  | The popularity-contest package sets up a cron job that will ...

Then there is some general information about what the popcon system is
for.  So, the reader has been told that the are looking at the data
upload client.

The text you then quote is right at the bottom of that README, which
is 137 lines long.  On my screen it does indeed say, on the 4th page:

> ""
> FINDING THE SOURCE
> ==================
> 
> This package is being maintained in GIT on salsa.debian.org.
       ^^^^^^^
> The project summary page is available from
> <URL:https://salsa.debian.org/popularity-contest-team/popularity-contest>
> The project home page is at <URL:https://popcon.debian.org/>.

Now we are talking about the *package*.

What will not be obvious to many readers is that:

 * The source code to the live popcon.debian.org *website instance*
   is to be found within this *Debian source package*.

 * Change requests *for the website* should be submitted to the
   *package* in the Debian bug system.

Perhaps it seems obvious to you that the source code for the website
would be in the source package containing the upload client.  But that
is not a universal way of organising things.  Indeed, I think,
nowadays, it is slightly unusual [1].

I think it would be better if the page footer explicitly said where
its own source code was.

Indeed, it ought to tell you *where in the source tree* it is.  Since,
it's in the "examples" directory!  After you told us it was in that
git repo, I looked again, and I did I eventually find the source code
for the website - but only by grepping the git repo for strings that
were displayed in my browser.

Amending the text at the bottom of the README would also be good, but
only helps a reader who is quite determined - a casual reader isn't
going to scroll through and skimread many pages of what they will
probably think is an irrelevant document.

Ian.

[1] I do it myself: src:dgit contains the source code for the
server-side.  But the deployed instance is not running from an
installed copy of dgit-infrastructure..deb.

-- 
Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk>   These opinions are my own.  

Pronouns: they/he.  If I emailed you from @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk,
that is a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.

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