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Working for Linux/Debian

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  Working for Linux/Debian Zayd Ahmed <zayd.ahmed92@gmail.com> - 2021-08-04 17:30 +0200
    Re: Working for Linux/Debian Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2021-08-04 20:40 +0200
    Re: Working for Linux/Debian Onildo R Ribeiro - Pessoal <onildoricardo@gmail.com> - 2021-08-05 06:20 +0200
      Re: Working for Linux/Debian Zayd Ahmed <zayd.ahmed92@gmail.com> - 2021-08-05 06:20 +0200
        Re: Working for Linux/Debian Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> - 2021-08-05 10:50 +0200
          Re: Working for Linux/Debian Zayd <zayd.ahmed92@gmail.com> - 2021-08-05 21:50 +0200
            Re: Working for Linux/Debian Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> - 2021-08-05 23:40 +0200
              Re: Working for Linux/Debian Zayd <zayd.ahmed92@gmail.com> - 2021-08-06 00:50 +0200
                Re: Working for Linux/Debian Zayd <zayd.ahmed92@gmail.com> - 2021-08-06 00:50 +0200
                  Re: Working for Linux/Debian Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> - 2021-08-06 17:10 +0200
                    Re: Working for Linux/Debian Agata Erminia Pennisi <agataerminiapennisi@gmail.com> - 2021-08-07 16:20 +0200
                      Re: Working for Linux/Debian Peter Pentchev <roam@ringlet.net> - 2021-08-08 00:10 +0200
                        Re: Working for Linux/Debian Agata Erminia Pennisi <agataerminiapennisi@gmail.com> - 2021-08-08 02:10 +0200
                          Re: Working for Linux/Debian Zayd Ahmed <zayd.ahmed92@gmail.com> - 2021-08-08 05:20 +0200
                      Re: Working for Linux/Debian Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> - 2021-08-08 09:20 +0200
                        Re: Working for Linux/Debian Agata Erminia Pennisi <agataerminiapennisi@gmail.com> - 2021-08-08 10:40 +0200
                          Re: Working for Linux/Debian Agata Erminia Pennisi <agataerminiapennisi@gmail.com> - 2021-08-08 12:40 +0200
                          Re: Working for Linux/Debian Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> - 2021-08-08 12:40 +0200
                        Re: Working for Linux/Debian Zayd Ahmed <zayd.ahmed92@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 17:20 +0100
                          Re: Working for Linux/Debian Agata Erminia Pennisi <agataerminiapennisi@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 18:30 +0100
                            Re: Working for Linux/Debian Zayd Ahmed <zayd.ahmed92@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 18:30 +0100
                              Re: Working for Linux/Debian Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> - 2021-11-23 19:30 +0100
                                Re: Working for Linux/Debian Agata Erminia Pennisi <agataerminiapennisi@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 20:30 +0100
                                  Re: Working for Linux/Debian Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> - 2021-11-23 21:00 +0100
                                    Re: Working for Linux/Debian Agata Erminia Pennisi <agataerminiapennisi@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 21:20 +0100
                                      Re: Working for Linux/Debian Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> - 2021-11-23 21:50 +0100
                                        Re: Working for Linux/Debian Agata Erminia Pennisi <agataerminiapennisi@gmail.com> - 2021-11-23 22:00 +0100
                          Re: Working for Linux/Debian Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> - 2021-11-23 20:30 +0100
              Re: Working for Linux/Debian Zayd <zayd.ahmed92@gmail.com> - 2021-08-06 00:50 +0200
                Re: Working for Linux/Debian Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> - 2021-08-06 10:10 +0200
                  Re: Working for Linux/Debian Agata Erminia Pennisi <agataerminiapennisi@gmail.com> - 2021-08-06 11:40 +0200
        Mail privacy (was: Working for Linux/Debian) Martin <debacle@debian.org> - 2021-08-05 10:50 +0200
          Re: Mail privacy (was: Working for Linux/Debian) Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> - 2021-08-05 18:50 +0200
          Re: Mail privacy (was: Working for Linux/Debian) Parodper <parodper@gmail.com> - 2021-08-05 20:40 +0200
    Re: Working for Linux/Debian Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2021-08-05 06:20 +0200
      Re: Working for Linux/Debian Zayd <zayd.ahmed92@gmail.com> - 2021-08-05 21:50 +0200

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#12423 — Working for Linux/Debian

Hello,

I hope that you are doing well. My name is Zayd. I am currently in the midst of a career change. A couple of years ago, I discovered Linux and realize that I have a passion for it. I have already completed my Bachelors degree. I recently also completed an Introduction to Linux course through the Linux Foundation. I was looking at different jobs and realized there are many different Linux Engineer positions available. I, however, do not have the necessary experience and qualifications. This is something that I would like to pursue and was wondering if you can give me information about pursuing a career in Linux. I enjoy and use Debian but I wasn’t sure who to get in touch with this. If you do not have the information, can you point me in the direction of someone either at Debian or elsewhere who could help me learn how to get into a career with Linux Administration or Software Development geared towards Linux. Thank you and best wishes!

Sincerely,

Zayd

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#12424

Hello Zayd,

> I hope that you are doing well. My name is Zayd. I am currently in
> the midst of a career change. A couple of years ago, I discovered
> Linux and realize that I have a passion for it. I have already
> completed my Bachelors degree. I recently also completed an
> Introduction to Linux course through the Linux Foundation. I was
> looking at different jobs and realized there are many different
> Linux Engineer positions available. I, however, do not have the
> necessary experience and qualifications. This is something that I
> would like to pursue and was wondering if you can give me
> information about pursuing a career in Linux.

There are way too many companies that employ Linux for their
day-to-day operation; I would not know where to start, and it would be
foolish of me to point you at one of them without first knowing what
do you enjoy doing with Linux. Are you interested in becoming a
programmer? A systems administrator? A network administrator? Aiding
the adoption of Linux in the desktop? In documenting software use?
etc. Each of them points to a completely different career -- with a
completely different entry point.

> I enjoy and use Debian but I wasn’t sure who to get in touch with
> this. If you do not have the information, can you point me in the
> direction of someone either at Debian or elsewhere who could help me
> learn how to get into a career with Linux Administration or Software
> Development geared towards Linux. Thank you and best wishes!

Debian is not a company, and has no employees at all. There are
several companies, of course, that employ people to work for Debian in
different ways -- but Debian itself cannot be the workplace you are
looking for.

I see here you do mention "Linux administration or software
development" -- OK, I lacked some reading when writing my first
paragraph ;-) Try to think what areas you know (and enjoy) most, and
build a profile around those specific areas. That will help you narrow
down your search!

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#12425

Hello Zayd, how are you doing?

	Unless you are already working in some company it is very
difficult for some recruiter believes you only in your words and
feeling about linux. I suggest you to be cerified with Comptia Linux+
or LPI-1, 2 and 3 and after you get those certs you apply to a lot of
jobs which requires linux knowledge. Unfortunately, the market is cruel
and won't believe you. Peharps you have good knlowledge but if you have
the ceritifcations it becomes easier to find your lovely job,

On Wed, 2021-08-04 at 05:46 -0400, Zayd Ahmed wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I hope that you are doing well. My name is Zayd. I am currently in
> the midst of a career change. A couple of years ago, I discovered
> Linux and realize that I have a passion for it. I have already
> completed my Bachelors degree. I recently also completed an
> Introduction to Linux course through the Linux Foundation. I was
> looking at different jobs and realized there are many different Linux
> Engineer positions available. I, however, do not have the necessary
> experience and qualifications. This is something that I would like to
> pursue and was wondering if you can give me information about
> pursuing a career in Linux. I enjoy and use Debian but I wasn’t sure
> who to get in touch with this. If you do not have the information,
> can you point me in the direction of someone either at Debian or
> elsewhere who could help me learn how to get into a career with Linux
> Administration or Software Development geared towards Linux. Thank
> you and best wishes!
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Zayd
-- 
Att

Onildo

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#12426

Hello everyone for the responses and I appreciate the help. When I originally sent this message I just saw the contact information on the Debian website and didn’t realize that this was a chain email. I was just looking to speak with someone at Debian that could answer my question but it seems there is no actual organization at Debian like other enterprise Linux distros. I contacted Canonical, Red Hat, and SUSE and it seems they have trainings but those are more enterprise Linux distributions. Was just wondering if there was a path to having a career in Linux while focusing on Debian but you probably have to work with one of those enterprise organizations in order to find a career.

> On Aug 4, 2021, at 3:09 PM, Onildo R Ribeiro - Pessoal <onildoricardo@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello Zayd, how are you doing?
> 
> 	Unless you are already working in some company it is very
> difficult for some recruiter believes you only in your words and
> feeling about linux. I suggest you to be cerified with Comptia Linux+
> or LPI-1, 2 and 3 and after you get those certs you apply to a lot of
> jobs which requires linux knowledge. Unfortunately, the market is cruel
> and won't believe you. Peharps you have good knlowledge but if you have
> the ceritifcations it becomes easier to find your lovely job,
> 
> On Wed, 2021-08-04 at 05:46 -0400, Zayd Ahmed wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I hope that you are doing well. My name is Zayd. I am currently in
>> the midst of a career change. A couple of years ago, I discovered
>> Linux and realize that I have a passion for it. I have already
>> completed my Bachelors degree. I recently also completed an
>> Introduction to Linux course through the Linux Foundation. I was
>> looking at different jobs and realized there are many different Linux
>> Engineer positions available. I, however, do not have the necessary
>> experience and qualifications. This is something that I would like to
>> pursue and was wondering if you can give me information about
>> pursuing a career in Linux. I enjoy and use Debian but I wasn’t sure
>> who to get in touch with this. If you do not have the information,
>> can you point me in the direction of someone either at Debian or
>> elsewhere who could help me learn how to get into a career with Linux
>> Administration or Software Development geared towards Linux. Thank
>> you and best wishes!
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> Zayd
> -- 
> Att
> 
> Onildo
> 

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#12428

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Quoting Zayd Ahmed (2021-08-04 22:09:47)
> Hello everyone for the responses and I appreciate the help. When I 
> originally sent this message I just saw the contact information on the 
> Debian website and didn’t realize that this was a chain email. I was 
> just looking to speak with someone at Debian that could answer my 
> question but it seems there is no actual organization at Debian like 
> other enterprise Linux distros. I contacted Canonical, Red Hat, and 
> SUSE and it seems they have trainings but those are more enterprise 
> Linux distributions. Was just wondering if there was a path to having 
> a career in Linux while focusing on Debian but you probably have to 
> work with one of those enterprise organizations in order to find a 
> career.

You wanted to talk about your options for earning money with Debian, and 
you contacted us at the proper place: This mailinglist _is_ where we 
talk together about non-technical parts of developing Debian which 
includes how we attract new developers.

To answer your question: Yes, there are several paths to make a living 
from your passion with Debian, besides taking a job with an enterprise 
company and hope that they will let you spend some of "their" time to 
focus on Debian.

One approach is to become an independent self-employed contractor, 
taking smaller jobs at multiple companies (which will then more often be 
smaller companies that don't need you full time).  That's what I have 
done for the past 25 years, and I know I am not the only one.

Freedom is simple but not easy.

Easier (although not super easy: life is not super easy) is - as you 
sort-of indicate yourself - to ask employment departments of enterprise 
companies if they want to cover your living costs and tell you what to 
do (and then hope that they will give you tasks related to your passions 
for Debian).

Simpler is to live out your passion, and then try find someone 
appreciating that work of yours and willing to cover your living costs. 
But then more complex to operate like that - e.g. how to survive periods 
of having little or no income.

Personally, my main approach to stay free to work on my passions has 
been to reduce living costs: It is often cheaper (but maybe less fun, if 
you want a social life in meatspace) to live in the country side than in 
larger cities.  If is cheaper (but less comfortable) to live in a room 
than in an apartment or a house.  Avoid debt: banks want their money 
back, and if they cannot have that in a steady flow then they charge 
extra.  None of that is specific to Debian, however - sorry if I am 
pointing out things already obvious to you.

I wish you the best of luck, whichever path you choose to take - and 
welcome you to ask questions here again.

You might also discuss more casually at our various IRC channels.


Kind regards,

 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#12433

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Hey Jonas,

That is really awesome and my mindset is similar. It’s just that there are
sometimes cultural pressures and such so I’m just trying to figure out a
way to pursue my passions, learn what I am interested in practically while
making the money I need in the mean time. Awesome to have met someone that
has a similar mindset and really inspiring to hear that you have been able
to make it work. How did you go about building your knowledge? I’ve just
tried different things on Linux and completed An Introductory certification
through the Linux foundation. I’m comfortable with the basics of how to
operate Debian and other distros but want to learn more. I’m most
comfortable with apt and Debian based systems at this point.

That is really helpful that you point out that you’re basically a
freelancer and that you’ve been able to make it work. I wasn’t sure if that
was possible and up to this point was assuming that you just had to work
for a big company in order to make the money you need and then do various
projects on the side.

Zayd

On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 04:03 Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> wrote:

> Quoting Zayd Ahmed (2021-08-04 22:09:47)
> > Hello everyone for the responses and I appreciate the help. When I
> > originally sent this message I just saw the contact information on the
> > Debian website and didn’t realize that this was a chain email. I was
> > just looking to speak with someone at Debian that could answer my
> > question but it seems there is no actual organization at Debian like
> > other enterprise Linux distros. I contacted Canonical, Red Hat, and
> > SUSE and it seems they have trainings but those are more enterprise
> > Linux distributions. Was just wondering if there was a path to having
> > a career in Linux while focusing on Debian but you probably have to
> > work with one of those enterprise organizations in order to find a
> > career.
>
> You wanted to talk about your options for earning money with Debian, and
> you contacted us at the proper place: This mailinglist _is_ where we
> talk together about non-technical parts of developing Debian which
> includes how we attract new developers.
>
> To answer your question: Yes, there are several paths to make a living
> from your passion with Debian, besides taking a job with an enterprise
> company and hope that they will let you spend some of "their" time to
> focus on Debian.
>
> One approach is to become an independent self-employed contractor,
> taking smaller jobs at multiple companies (which will then more often be
> smaller companies that don't need you full time).  That's what I have
> done for the past 25 years, and I know I am not the only one.
>
> Freedom is simple but not easy.
>
> Easier (although not super easy: life is not super easy) is - as you
> sort-of indicate yourself - to ask employment departments of enterprise
> companies if they want to cover your living costs and tell you what to
> do (and then hope that they will give you tasks related to your passions
> for Debian).
>
> Simpler is to live out your passion, and then try find someone
> appreciating that work of yours and willing to cover your living costs.
> But then more complex to operate like that - e.g. how to survive periods
> of having little or no income.
>
> Personally, my main approach to stay free to work on my passions has
> been to reduce living costs: It is often cheaper (but maybe less fun, if
> you want a social life in meatspace) to live in the country side than in
> larger cities.  If is cheaper (but less comfortable) to live in a room
> than in an apartment or a house.  Avoid debt: banks want their money
> back, and if they cannot have that in a steady flow then they charge
> extra.  None of that is specific to Debian, however - sorry if I am
> pointing out things already obvious to you.
>
> I wish you the best of luck, whichever path you choose to take - and
> welcome you to ask questions here again.
>
> You might also discuss more casually at our various IRC channels.
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>  - Jonas
>
> --
>  * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
>  * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
>
>  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#12434

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Quoting Zayd (2021-08-05 21:26:03)
> That is really awesome and my mindset is similar. It’s just that there 
> are sometimes cultural pressures and such so I’m just trying to figure 
> out a way to pursue my passions, learn what I am interested in 
> practically while making the money I need in the mean time. Awesome to 
> have met someone that has a similar mindset and really inspiring to 
> hear that you have been able to make it work. How did you go about 
> building your knowledge?

Like Paul Wise also suggested you to do, I did a lot of volunteer work. 
I also offered my services at a very low price until I grew confident 
that I was worth more.


> I’ve just tried different things on Linux and completed An 
> Introductory certification through the Linux foundation. I’m 
> comfortable with the basics of how to operate Debian and other distros 
> but want to learn more. I’m most comfortable with apt and Debian based 
> systems at this point.

Training courses and certifications are nice, but experience is better: 
Your future employer or client don't care if you learned your lessons at 
a well-paid job or through volunteer work, but they do care if you have 
_experience_ or only know theoretically how to solve a task.


> That is really helpful that you point out that you’re basically a 
> freelancer and that you’ve been able to make it work. I wasn’t sure if 
> that was possible and up to this point was assuming that you just had 
> to work for a big company in order to make the money you need and then 
> do various projects on the side.

Certainly possible, but not glamorous.  I do my hobby full-time, and 
earn about half of the standard wage in my country for a taxi driver or 
garbage man.

To me, money is nice but also a distraction: I strongly prefer the 
freedom of working on things that I value and enjoy.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#12435

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I respect your dedication to the hustle though good sir

On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 18:29 Zayd <zayd.ahmed92@gmail.com> wrote:

> That makes sense. For me I want to know everything I can and solve my own
> problems and do projects but I do think that I want to make something so
> that I can afford what I need and then also maybe help to support projects
> in the community. So I I have my interests and passions but also want to
> make some money. So I sort of want to do both. Just trying to manage that
> if that makes sense. So I basically like open source and Debian because of
> the freedom it offers but see them as both sort of existing. Idealism and
> ethics and money making so the best thing to do is maybe just to have a
> limit on business practices. And living and learning so if I gain more
> insight and find a better way then I’ll try and do that lol
>
> On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 17:29 Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> wrote:
>
>> Quoting Zayd (2021-08-05 21:26:03)
>> > That is really awesome and my mindset is similar. It’s just that there
>> > are sometimes cultural pressures and such so I’m just trying to figure
>> > out a way to pursue my passions, learn what I am interested in
>> > practically while making the money I need in the mean time. Awesome to
>> > have met someone that has a similar mindset and really inspiring to
>> > hear that you have been able to make it work. How did you go about
>> > building your knowledge?
>>
>> Like Paul Wise also suggested you to do, I did a lot of volunteer work.
>> I also offered my services at a very low price until I grew confident
>> that I was worth more.
>>
>>
>> > I’ve just tried different things on Linux and completed An
>> > Introductory certification through the Linux foundation. I’m
>> > comfortable with the basics of how to operate Debian and other distros
>> > but want to learn more. I’m most comfortable with apt and Debian based
>> > systems at this point.
>>
>> Training courses and certifications are nice, but experience is better:
>> Your future employer or client don't care if you learned your lessons at
>> a well-paid job or through volunteer work, but they do care if you have
>> _experience_ or only know theoretically how to solve a task.
>>
>>
>> > That is really helpful that you point out that you’re basically a
>> > freelancer and that you’ve been able to make it work. I wasn’t sure if
>> > that was possible and up to this point was assuming that you just had
>> > to work for a big company in order to make the money you need and then
>> > do various projects on the side.
>>
>> Certainly possible, but not glamorous.  I do my hobby full-time, and
>> earn about half of the standard wage in my country for a taxi driver or
>> garbage man.
>>
>> To me, money is nice but also a distraction: I strongly prefer the
>> freedom of working on things that I value and enjoy.
>>
>>
>>  - Jonas
>>
>> --
>>  * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
>>  * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
>>
>>  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
>
>

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#12437

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How did you basically start learning or was it just a process of trial and
error?

On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 18:30 Zayd <zayd.ahmed92@gmail.com> wrote:

> I respect your dedication to the hustle though good sir
>
> On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 18:29 Zayd <zayd.ahmed92@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That makes sense. For me I want to know everything I can and solve my own
>> problems and do projects but I do think that I want to make something so
>> that I can afford what I need and then also maybe help to support projects
>> in the community. So I I have my interests and passions but also want to
>> make some money. So I sort of want to do both. Just trying to manage that
>> if that makes sense. So I basically like open source and Debian because of
>> the freedom it offers but see them as both sort of existing. Idealism and
>> ethics and money making so the best thing to do is maybe just to have a
>> limit on business practices. And living and learning so if I gain more
>> insight and find a better way then I’ll try and do that lol
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 17:29 Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> wrote:
>>
>>> Quoting Zayd (2021-08-05 21:26:03)
>>> > That is really awesome and my mindset is similar. It’s just that there
>>> > are sometimes cultural pressures and such so I’m just trying to figure
>>> > out a way to pursue my passions, learn what I am interested in
>>> > practically while making the money I need in the mean time. Awesome to
>>> > have met someone that has a similar mindset and really inspiring to
>>> > hear that you have been able to make it work. How did you go about
>>> > building your knowledge?
>>>
>>> Like Paul Wise also suggested you to do, I did a lot of volunteer work.
>>> I also offered my services at a very low price until I grew confident
>>> that I was worth more.
>>>
>>>
>>> > I’ve just tried different things on Linux and completed An
>>> > Introductory certification through the Linux foundation. I’m
>>> > comfortable with the basics of how to operate Debian and other distros
>>> > but want to learn more. I’m most comfortable with apt and Debian based
>>> > systems at this point.
>>>
>>> Training courses and certifications are nice, but experience is better:
>>> Your future employer or client don't care if you learned your lessons at
>>> a well-paid job or through volunteer work, but they do care if you have
>>> _experience_ or only know theoretically how to solve a task.
>>>
>>>
>>> > That is really helpful that you point out that you’re basically a
>>> > freelancer and that you’ve been able to make it work. I wasn’t sure if
>>> > that was possible and up to this point was assuming that you just had
>>> > to work for a big company in order to make the money you need and then
>>> > do various projects on the side.
>>>
>>> Certainly possible, but not glamorous.  I do my hobby full-time, and
>>> earn about half of the standard wage in my country for a taxi driver or
>>> garbage man.
>>>
>>> To me, money is nice but also a distraction: I strongly prefer the
>>> freedom of working on things that I value and enjoy.
>>>
>>>
>>>  - Jonas
>>>
>>> --
>>>  * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
>>>  * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
>>>
>>>  [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
>>
>>

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#12442

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Quoting Zayd (2021-08-06 00:30:58)
> How did you basically start learning or was it just a process of trial 
> and error?

I did not attend any formal school or training courses, if that's what 
you mean.

If you mean what drove me, then I have always felt that computers lacked 
meaning unless they had some practical use in the real world.  I mean, 
playing computer games as a kid was fun but didn't _produce_ anything.  
And working as an intern at an advertising agency for a year, where my 
job was basically to put out fires all the time, similarly wasn't 
fullfilling for me (despite the huge payment I got).  I wanted my work 
to stick - which lead me to work on education-related tools and semantic 
web tools, and lead me to Debian and to maintaining packages for Debian.

If you mean which concrete types of work I did at the beginning when my 
skills were far lower than my passion, then (as I wrote briefly in 
previous post) I did lots and lots of unpaid volunteer work.  For about 
5 years I mainly (from the top of my head) did...:

Proof-reading texts, photo refining, and desktop publishing for family 
and friends.

Installing and tuning desktop systems for family and friends, and 
consulting in best practices of doing backup and which tools to use for 
which tasks. Later doing same for a small fee for friends-of-friends and 
then strangers: My first source of income when I started my company.

Maintaining workstations, servers, and networking for a small 
non-governmental organisation. Later doing same for small businesses, 
charging a monthly fee for that (crucially *not* charging by the hour, 
to shift attention from fighting fires to getting ahead of them): This 
became my main source of income for 20 years.

Packaging .deb packages for stuff needed for above tasks but missing in 
Debian - unofficially at first, until someone in Debian stumbled upon my 
work online and encouraged me to join.  This work continued as mostly¹ 
volunteer work for 20 years, but made my paid work much much easier and 
therefore (due to the subscription-based approach) more economic.  The 
past few years I am directly paid by Purism to maintain packages 
officially in Debian.


[ in reply to questions asked privately... ]

I don't know any "real" programming language like C or C++ or Rust.  My 
scripting language of choice is Perl, and I also grok shell and make 
(yes, that's a language).  For other languages I can juggle patches, 
needed for the (far too many²) packages I maintain in Debian.

I live in Denmark, where monthly income is DKK 30.000 for a garbage man 
and DKK 25.861 for a taxi driver, according to some³ sources: 
https://www.dekra.dk/blog/lastbil/hvad-tjener-en-skraldemand 
https://www.dekra.dk/blog/taxa/hvad-tjener-en-taxachauffoer

My accounting is at https://source.jones.dk/ledger/tree/data with usage 
notes at https://source.redpill.dk/accounting/tree/USE.md


 - Jonas

¹ with rare exceptions, e.g. Canonical paying for speeding up the 
packaging of a major new release of MoinMoin when Ubuntu started, and a 
cryptocoin developer paying (in that obscure coin which later gained 
significant value) for packaging a wallet for their coin.

² please get in touch if you want to help maintain some of them: 
https://udd.debian.org/dmd/?email1=dr@jones.dk

³ When I tried to locate some sources written in english for this email, 
I learned that numbers vary wildly.

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#12445

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*Red pill r*efers to (becoming enlightened to) the truth about reality,
especially a truth that is difficult to accept or exposes disillusions.

Online, *red pill* is especially used among anti-feminist
<https://www.dictionary.com/browse/feminism> and white supremacist
<https://www.dictionary.com/browse/white-supremacy> groups to refer to
"waking up" to the truth that women and liberal politics are oppressing men
and white people.


https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/red-pill/


Il ven 6 ago 2021, 17:06 Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> ha scritto:

Quoting Zayd (2021-08-06 00:30:58)
> How did you basically start learning or was it just a process of trial
> and error?

I did not attend any formal school or training courses, if that's what
you mean.

If you mean what drove me, then I have always felt that computers lacked
meaning unless they had some practical use in the real world.  I mean,
playing computer games as a kid was fun but didn't _produce_ anything.
And working as an intern at an advertising agency for a year, where my
job was basically to put out fires all the time, similarly wasn't
fullfilling for me (despite the huge payment I got).  I wanted my work
to stick - which lead me to work on education-related tools and semantic
web tools, and lead me to Debian and to maintaining packages for Debian.

If you mean which concrete types of work I did at the beginning when my
skills were far lower than my passion, then (as I wrote briefly in
previous post) I did lots and lots of unpaid volunteer work.  For about
5 years I mainly (from the top of my head) did...:

Proof-reading texts, photo refining, and desktop publishing for family
and friends.

Installing and tuning desktop systems for family and friends, and
consulting in best practices of doing backup and which tools to use for
which tasks. Later doing same for a small fee for friends-of-friends and
then strangers: My first source of income when I started my company.

Maintaining workstations, servers, and networking for a small
non-governmental organisation. Later doing same for small businesses,
charging a monthly fee for that (crucially *not* charging by the hour,
to shift attention from fighting fires to getting ahead of them): This
became my main source of income for 20 years.

Packaging .deb packages for stuff needed for above tasks but missing in
Debian - unofficially at first, until someone in Debian stumbled upon my
work online and encouraged me to join.  This work continued as mostly¹
volunteer work for 20 years, but made my paid work much much easier and
therefore (due to the subscription-based approach) more economic.  The
past few years I am directly paid by Purism to maintain packages
officially in Debian.


[ in reply to questions asked privately... ]

I don't know any "real" programming language like C or C++ or Rust.  My
scripting language of choice is Perl, and I also grok shell and make
(yes, that's a language).  For other languages I can juggle patches,
needed for the (far too many²) packages I maintain in Debian.

I live in Denmark, where monthly income is DKK 30.000 for a garbage man
and DKK 25.861 for a taxi driver, according to some³ sources:
https://www.dekra.dk/blog/lastbil/hvad-tjener-en-skraldemand
https://www.dekra.dk/blog/taxa/hvad-tjener-en-taxachauffoer

My accounting is at https://source.jones.dk/ledger/tree/data with usage
notes at https://source.redpill.dk/accounting/tree/USE.md


 - Jonas

¹ with rare exceptions, e.g. Canonical paying for speeding up the
packaging of a major new release of MoinMoin when Ubuntu started, and a
cryptocoin developer paying (in that obscure coin which later gained
significant value) for packaging a wallet for their coin.

² please get in touch if you want to help maintain some of them:
https://udd.debian.org/dmd/?email1=dr@jones.dk

³ When I tried to locate some sources written in english for this email,
I learned that numbers vary wildly.

--
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#12446

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On Fri, Aug 06, 2021 at 11:56:10PM +0200, Agata Erminia Pennisi wrote:
> > Il ven 6 ago 2021, 17:06 Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> ha scritto:
> [snip]
> > [ in reply to questions asked privately... ]
> > 
> > I don't know any "real" programming language like C or C++ or Rust.  My
> > scripting language of choice is Perl, and I also grok shell and make
> > (yes, that's a language).  For other languages I can juggle patches,
> > needed for the (far too many²) packages I maintain in Debian.
> > 
> > I live in Denmark, where monthly income is DKK 30.000 for a garbage man
> > and DKK 25.861 for a taxi driver, according to some³ sources:
> > https://www.dekra.dk/blog/lastbil/hvad-tjener-en-skraldemand
> > https://www.dekra.dk/blog/taxa/hvad-tjener-en-taxachauffoer
> > 
> > My accounting is at https://source.jones.dk/ledger/tree/data with usage
> > notes at https://source.redpill.dk/accounting/tree/USE.md
> 
> *Red pill r*efers to (becoming enlightened to) the truth about reality,
> especially a truth that is difficult to accept or exposes disillusions.
> 
> Online, *red pill* is especially used among anti-feminist
> <https://www.dictionary.com/browse/feminism> and white supremacist
> <https://www.dictionary.com/browse/white-supremacy> groups to refer to
> "waking up" to the truth that women and liberal politics are oppressing men
> and white people.
> 
> 
> https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/red-pill/

[quoting style fixed, top-posting fixed, Jonas's message indented]

While I completely agree that the term "red pill" has, in the past
couple of years, become overloaded with a very unfortunate (and, indeed,
very dog-whistle-like) meaning, I believe that Jonas's use of it for
their domain predates that by, well, quite some time. A "whois" query
for redpill.dk shows that it has been registered in 2001, so I suppose
that it was inspired by the movie "The Matrix" - that's where the "truth
about reality" meaning from your first sentence comes from.

So, yeah, while I myself would be very careful trying to use the term
itself in online discussions (and I would most probably not), in this
case this long-standing domain name does not try to convey any of those
overtones; it might even still be used to reinforce the "original"
meaning of the phrase.

G'luck,
Peter

-- 
Peter Pentchev  roam@ringlet.net roam@debian.org pp@storpool.com
PGP key:        http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc
Key fingerprint 2EE7 A7A5 17FC 124C F115  C354 651E EFB0 2527 DF13

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#12447

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*Thanks Peter,*

*I imagined and hoped he was referring to the Matrix.*

*But in my life I have suffered from racism, so I preferred to share the
meaning assigned to that term. That's all.*


*Red pill r*efers to (becoming enlightened to) the truth about reality,
especially a truth that is difficult to accept or exposes disillusions.

Online, *red pill* is especially used among anti-feminist
<https://www.dictionary.com/browse/feminism> and white supremacist
<https://www.dictionary.com/browse/white-supremacy> groups to refer to
"waking up" to the truth that women and liberal politics are oppressing men
and white people.


https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/red-pill/

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#12448

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Sorry for late response Jonas but that does make sense. I’m just trying to find the path to a career and it is tricky and unfortunately it seems slow and takes a while to gain experience. I might consider doing something like a coding bootcamp and then seeing if I can get a degree or maybe whatever other job I can get along the way to learn the basics. I hear there are a lot of different low cost online courses nowadays so I may consider looking into that as well. 

That is interesting Agata. I guess I was looking for one particular path that would quickly get me a job, knowledge, and experience, but I guess it’s a journey and you learn slowly. That makes sense. I’ll see if I can figure out a way to try my hand at some projects and see if I can design something. 

Jonas, that is very interesting to hear your story. I grew up and live in the states but I’ve been to Denmark and Norway. Denmark seems quite expensive and I had assumed that the average salary was quite high. That is interesting to know. With regard to package maintenance, that seems quite interesting. Was Debian mostly made by software engineers and other computer professionals who volunteered to design it? 

Agatha with regard to Red Pill and anti-feminism and all, I wasn’t sure what your tone was so I was hesitant to respond at first. But I think that it is true. There is this idea of awakening which can often be exploited by toxicity. But the concept of self improvement and seeing beyond the everyday limitations is important and something that everyone should try and do in order to self-actualize. We do our best. But any form of hate is not good for anyone. 


Zayd

> On Aug 7, 2021, at 8:00 PM, Agata Erminia Pennisi <agataerminiapennisi@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Peter,
> 
> I imagined and hoped he was referring to the Matrix.
> 
> But in my life I have suffered from racism, so I preferred to share the meaning assigned to that term. That's all.
> 
> 
> 
> Red pill refers to (becoming enlightened to) the truth about reality, especially a truth that is difficult to accept or exposes disillusions.
> 
> Online, red pill is especially used among anti-feminist <https://www.dictionary.com/browse/feminism> and white supremacist <https://www.dictionary.com/browse/white-supremacy> groups to refer to "waking up" to the truth that women and liberal politics are oppressing men and white people.
> 
> https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/red-pill/ <https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/red-pill/>

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#12449

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Quoting Agata Erminia Pennisi (2021-08-06 23:56:10)
> *Red pill r*efers to (becoming enlightened to) the truth about 
> reality, especially a truth that is difficult to accept or exposes 
> disillusions.

Funny you should emphasize redpill in the context of how to make a 
living off of Free software, because it is at the heart of my work.

My use of the term is summarized here¹:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190811015333/http://support.redpill.dk/redpill/

In my use, a "Redpill" is a standardized way of sharing ICT resources 
across multiple organisations, without the need for sharing secrets 
(access codes or content).

It grew from my strong interest in long-term sustainability of my work.  
When at the beginning working independently I mostly did tuning of 
desktop/laptop systems, I realized that it became quite repetitive for 
me, without being easy to codify the steps I made.  I noticed the same 
when moving to maintaining servers and networks, and wanted to try 
standardize some of the structures, in a modular way to still serve each 
client uniquely yet do so with reusable components.

My first steady client paying me a monthly subscription fee (established 
after 1-2 years of charging by the hour) was a small business 
university, but also a related business consultancy firm and a small 
team of volunteer activism consultants in their backyard.  I developed a 
computer setup for them all, called "Homebase", and slowly generalized 
that into something reusable for other groups of organizations - called 
"Redpill".

Now, 25 years later, Homebase still exists (see the dusty documentation 
at https://support.homebase.dk/ and a newer draft at 
https://docs.homebase.dk/ ) but the business university recently decided 
to switch to a Microsoft solution so its future is uncertain.

One other experimental Redpill exists, consisting of my own network also 
used by my life partner in her business as a graphics designer using 
purely Free software, a server run by another Debian developer and 
friend of mine, and another friend of mine in couple of his projects on 
ICT education and eco activism in Germany.

My hope is to introduce redpill as packages in Debian, but I am not 
quite there yet.  If anyone wants to help, please to get in touch :-)


Kind regards,

 - Jonas


¹ I reference an archive.org snapshot both because that main web page 
(which is also what you would be redirected to if you went to 
https://redpill.dk/ ) is not currently online, and because it might 
interest you for how long that web page has existed.

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#12450

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Thanks Jonas for sharing your experience. But in my life I have not only
known Debian.
Sicilians in Italy are not considered Italians. We only serve to increase
the flock, to vote, to pay taxes. And in the world, Italians, in general,
are seen as cooks, pizza makers, mafia people, covid sufferers. After all,
racism is present all over the world, even in Denmark and the USA. And in
order to know the reality I don't need pills.
Furthermore, not all European countries are as rich as Denmark. However in
reference to voluntary and free work, if it does not harm my daily
activities, it is possible. But only small assignments.

Thank you.

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#12451

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Dear Jonas,
I'll put it aside with your redpills.

You're welcome

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#12452

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Quoting Agata Erminia Pennisi (2021-08-08 09:27:51)
> Sicilians in Italy are not considered Italians.

This thread has as subject "Working for Linux/Debian", and since I 
suspected that the original poster might expect a high salary I found it 
relevant to point out that my own income was more comparable to 
low-income jobs where I live - which happens to be Denmark but I that 
irrelevant to the point I was making.

I don't eat pills either, but find that pretty irrelevant to my use of 
the term "Redpill", as it is not using the literal meaning of the word 
(sorry if that was not obvious to you).

Let me be more explicit: Please take your racism discussion elsewhere.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#12523

Responding to these messages after a long time but I took a bootcamp and hope to pursue further education in order to learn more computer science so then I can hopefully find a career in the field!

> On Aug 8, 2021, at 12:00 AM, Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> wrote:
> 
> Quoting Agata Erminia Pennisi (2021-08-06 23:56:10)
>> *Red pill r*efers to (becoming enlightened to) the truth about 
>> reality, especially a truth that is difficult to accept or exposes 
>> disillusions.
> 
> Funny you should emphasize redpill in the context of how to make a 
> living off of Free software, because it is at the heart of my work.
> 
> My use of the term is summarized here¹:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20190811015333/http://support.redpill.dk/redpill/
> 
> In my use, a "Redpill" is a standardized way of sharing ICT resources 
> across multiple organisations, without the need for sharing secrets 
> (access codes or content).
> 
> It grew from my strong interest in long-term sustainability of my work.  
> When at the beginning working independently I mostly did tuning of 
> desktop/laptop systems, I realized that it became quite repetitive for 
> me, without being easy to codify the steps I made.  I noticed the same 
> when moving to maintaining servers and networks, and wanted to try 
> standardize some of the structures, in a modular way to still serve each 
> client uniquely yet do so with reusable components.
> 
> My first steady client paying me a monthly subscription fee (established 
> after 1-2 years of charging by the hour) was a small business 
> university, but also a related business consultancy firm and a small 
> team of volunteer activism consultants in their backyard.  I developed a 
> computer setup for them all, called "Homebase", and slowly generalized 
> that into something reusable for other groups of organizations - called 
> "Redpill".
> 
> Now, 25 years later, Homebase still exists (see the dusty documentation 
> at https://support.homebase.dk/ and a newer draft at 
> https://docs.homebase.dk/ ) but the business university recently decided 
> to switch to a Microsoft solution so its future is uncertain.
> 
> One other experimental Redpill exists, consisting of my own network also 
> used by my life partner in her business as a graphics designer using 
> purely Free software, a server run by another Debian developer and 
> friend of mine, and another friend of mine in couple of his projects on 
> ICT education and eco activism in Germany.
> 
> My hope is to introduce redpill as packages in Debian, but I am not 
> quite there yet.  If anyone wants to help, please to get in touch :-)
> 
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> - Jonas
> 
> 
> ¹ I reference an archive.org snapshot both because that main web page 
> (which is also what you would be redirected to if you went to 
> https://redpill.dk/ ) is not currently online, and because it might 
> interest you for how long that web page has existed.
> 
> -- 
> * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
> * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
> 
> [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#12524

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Thanks for your sharing, but this is an excerpt from a closed discussion,
which also does not include my complete answers. Discussion that I do not
intend to open again.

Il mar 23 nov 2021, 17:01 Zayd Ahmed <zayd.ahmed92@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Responding to these messages after a long time but I took a bootcamp and
> hope to pursue further education in order to learn more computer science so
> then I can hopefully find a career in the field!
>
> > On Aug 8, 2021, at 12:00 AM, Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> wrote:
> >
> > Quoting Agata Erminia Pennisi (2021-08-06 23:56:10)
> >> *Red pill r*efers to (becoming enlightened to) the truth about
> >> reality, especially a truth that is difficult to accept or exposes
> >> disillusions.
> >
> > Funny you should emphasize redpill in the context of how to make a
> > living off of Free software, because it is at the heart of my work.
> >
> > My use of the term is summarized here¹:
> >
> https://web.archive.org/web/20190811015333/http://support.redpill.dk/redpill/
> >
> > In my use, a "Redpill" is a standardized way of sharing ICT resources
> > across multiple organisations, without the need for sharing secrets
> > (access codes or content).
> >
> > It grew from my strong interest in long-term sustainability of my work.
> > When at the beginning working independently I mostly did tuning of
> > desktop/laptop systems, I realized that it became quite repetitive for
> > me, without being easy to codify the steps I made.  I noticed the same
> > when moving to maintaining servers and networks, and wanted to try
> > standardize some of the structures, in a modular way to still serve each
> > client uniquely yet do so with reusable components.
> >
> > My first steady client paying me a monthly subscription fee (established
> > after 1-2 years of charging by the hour) was a small business
> > university, but also a related business consultancy firm and a small
> > team of volunteer activism consultants in their backyard.  I developed a
> > computer setup for them all, called "Homebase", and slowly generalized
> > that into something reusable for other groups of organizations - called
> > "Redpill".
> >
> > Now, 25 years later, Homebase still exists (see the dusty documentation
> > at https://support.homebase.dk/ and a newer draft at
> > https://docs.homebase.dk/ ) but the business university recently
> decided
> > to switch to a Microsoft solution so its future is uncertain.
> >
> > One other experimental Redpill exists, consisting of my own network also
> > used by my life partner in her business as a graphics designer using
> > purely Free software, a server run by another Debian developer and
> > friend of mine, and another friend of mine in couple of his projects on
> > ICT education and eco activism in Germany.
> >
> > My hope is to introduce redpill as packages in Debian, but I am not
> > quite there yet.  If anyone wants to help, please to get in touch :-)
> >
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > - Jonas
> >
> >
> > ¹ I reference an archive.org snapshot both because that main web page
> > (which is also what you would be redirected to if you went to
> > https://redpill.dk/ ) is not currently online, and because it might
> > interest you for how long that web page has existed.
> >
> > --
> > * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
> > * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
> >
> > [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private
>
>

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