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Debian and GG

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  Debian and GG Hermann Ingjaldsson <hermanningjaldsson@gmail.com> - 2021-04-21 12:10 +0200
    Re: Debian and GG Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2021-04-21 12:50 +0200
      Re: Debian and GG "Yao Wei (魏銘廷)" <mwei@debian.org> - 2021-04-21 13:20 +0200
        Re: Debian and GG Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2021-04-21 13:40 +0200
      Re: Debian and GG Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2021-04-21 13:30 +0200
      Re: Debian and GG Davide Prina <davide.prina@gmail.com> - 2021-04-21 21:10 +0200
        Re: Debian and GG Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2021-04-21 22:20 +0200
          Re: Debian and GG <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-04-21 22:40 +0200
          Re: Debian and GG Davide Prina <davide.prina@gmail.com> - 2021-04-24 10:50 +0200
        Re: Debian and GG Hermann Ingjaldsson <hermanningjaldsson@gmail.com> - 2021-04-30 15:40 +0200
          Re: Debian and GG Jacob Lifshay <programmerjake@gmail.com> - 2021-04-30 15:50 +0200
          Re: Debian and GG Clément Hermann <nodens@debian.org> - 2021-04-30 16:30 +0200
          Re: Debian and GG Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2021-04-30 16:30 +0200
            Re: Debian and GG Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> - 2021-04-30 17:10 +0200
              Re: Debian and GG Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2021-04-30 17:30 +0200
                Re: Debian and GG Geert Stappers <stappers@debian.org> - 2021-04-30 20:30 +0200

#12345 — Debian and GG

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Hello my name is Hermann and I'm an innovator.

I have developed a program that makes it easier to work in the terminal.
I have published it here:
https://openage.org/gg/

Would Debian be interested in including GG in the Debian system?

Kind regards,
Hermann,
Iceland

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#12346

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On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 08:00:05AM +0000, Hermann Ingjaldsson wrote:
> I have developed a program that makes it easier to work in the terminal.
> I have published it here:
> https://openage.org/gg/
To be honest I couldn't understand from this page what does this software
actually do except for displaying the folder contents, for which you could
just use a much more featureful file navigator like mc (or, if one likes
toys and vim integration, run `vim .`).

> Would Debian be interested in including GG in the Debian system?
Debian cannot include it until it has a license (and a DFSG-free one).
But I also doubt Debian will benefit from including his software.

-- 
WBR, wRAR

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#12347

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(I suspect this a spam mail...)

Yao Wei

(This email is sent from a phone; sorry for HTML email if it happens.)

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#12349

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On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 07:01:36PM +0800,  Yao Wei (魏銘廷) wrote:
> (I suspect this a spam mail...)
Doesn't look like one to me.

-- 
WBR, wRAR

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#12348

On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 03:11:26PM +0500, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 08:00:05AM +0000, Hermann Ingjaldsson wrote:
> > I have developed a program that makes it easier to work in the terminal.
> > I have published it here:
> > https://openage.org/gg/
> To be honest I couldn't understand from this page what does this software
> actually do except for displaying the folder contents, for which you could
> just use a much more featureful file navigator like mc (or, if one likes
> toys and vim integration, run `vim .`).
> 
> > Would Debian be interested in including GG in the Debian system?
> Debian cannot include it until it has a license (and a DFSG-free one).

That being said (I agree), there needs to be a Debian Developer or a
Debian Maintainer who would be willing to do the packaging, take care of
bug reports etc. Best method would be to file a wishlist RFP (Request
for Package) with the wnpp (Work Needing and Prospective Packages)
pseudopackage in our BTS.

Greetings
Marc

P.S.: While I agree that this is an attempt of an Upstream to plug his
software, which I find legitimate, I would not call this a Spam mail.


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber         | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany    |  lose things."    Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

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#12350

I CC to Hermann because I don't know if he has subscribe to this 
mailing-list.

On 21/04/21 12:11, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 08:00:05AM +0000, Hermann Ingjaldsson wrote:
>> I have developed a program that makes it easier to work in the terminal.
>> I have published it here:
>> https://openage.org/gg/

> To be honest I couldn't understand from this page what does this software
> actually do except for displaying the folder contents, for which you could
> just use a much more featureful file navigator like mc (or, if one likes
> toys and vim integration, run `vim .`).

I think it is not so simple to understand what that software can do, 
probably it is better that Hermann create some examples that show what 
you can do with that.

I have seen other terminal "extensions" that let you have help during 
command composition...

>> Would Debian be interested in including GG in the Debian system?

> Debian cannot include it until it has a license (and a DFSG-free one).
> But I also doubt Debian will benefit from including his software.

If I don't mistake the software don't have a copyright statement and a 
license to apply to them.

If this is correct the software cannot be used by anyone without a 
written permission signed by the copyright owner.

I suggest to Hermann to search for a license to use and then to compile 
a correct "use" of that license (== Copyright + license).

You can find an useful introduction on how to do that here, also if you 
don't select the GPL license:
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html

I would like to suggest to use always the AGPL license, this one is the 
only license that I know that let protect your free software on any 
actual usage type.

After you have done that and you have select a license that is 
"compatible" with Debian you can do:

1) ask is someone in Debian (a DD = Debian Developer) or someone else 
can create a package for this software and maintain it.

for doing that you can fill a bug report in the wnpp pseudo-package
you can see here the wnpp filled actually
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?package=wnpp

I would warn you that this is not a good choice, because probably you 
don't will find anyone that will do that.

2) package your software yourself and do the maintenance work. You must 
find a mentor that tell you what, eventually, you have make in the wrong 
way and help you solve problems. And also a DD: someone (that can be the 
same person above) that can publish the package in the Debian repository 
for you

you can find more info here:
https://mentors.debian.net

Ciao
Davide

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#12351

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On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 08:54:45PM +0200, Davide Prina wrote:
> I would like to suggest to use always the AGPL license, this one is the only
> license that I know that let protect your free software on any actual usage
> type.
I would like to suggest to a) never suggest AGPL; b) read what does AGPL
actually do, how is it actually different from GPL and how does it need to
be applied to software; c) think how should it be applied to this
particular software.

-- 
WBR, wRAR

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#12352

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On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 01:02:56AM +0500, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 08:54:45PM +0200, Davide Prina wrote:

> I would like to suggest to a) never suggest AGPL;

AGPL is fine, for the purpose it was designed for. You
just have to know what it does.

> b) read what does AGPL actually do [...]

If you apply a license to your software, it is always a
good idea to understand it, yes :-)

Cheers
 - t

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#12353

On 21/04/21 22:02, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 08:54:45PM +0200, Davide Prina wrote:

>> I would like to suggest to use always the AGPL license

> c) think how should it be applied to this
> particular software.

I think that in future some player will let you have all your software 
on-line. You will need to have only a thin-client-like that let you to 
access the "cloud" and you will have all here.
So every thing that have an user interface can be protected with the 
AGPL and not let the "cloud provider" to do everything he would like 
with your software without giving back nothing.

I think that this scenario can be very dangerous for free software and 
the only way to protect you software is to use the AGPL also for things 
that have not a user interface, as a library.

In this scenario nearly all the software can be not free software and 
"they" can use free software to build not free software products 
legally... except if you use AGPL.

Also in this scenario all the free software can be less interoperable 
and less usable to do things, it is very simple to do that.
For example look at Firefox. I see a "war" against Firefox from a lot of 
players that not let their software working correctly or fully working 
on Firefox (see, for example, a lot of videoconferencing software). This 
obligate a lot of user to use other browser and this is the first step 
for take away users from Firefox.
You can say that there is Chromium, but also Chromium not always work 
correctly... without some proprietary parts that are in Chrome, Edge, ...
Note also that there are pressure to Mozilla to build Firefox on Chromium...

Ciao
Davide

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#12357

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hey did i miss any emails?
sorry for the delayed response, i had to take care of things.
im not sure how to subscribe to this email list.

i have updated the website to describe right at the start, what this
program actually does.
and now there is a copyright disclaimer in the .bin.
openage.org/gg

thank you for the feedback. its very useful.

im not quite sure how to ask someone to create a package for this project
in debian.
if i make a bug report.. but this is not a bug. this is a program that im
trying to promote.

Should i send an email to wnpp@debian.org
<https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?maint=wnpp%40debian.org>
?

kind regards,
Hermann,
Iceland














On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 6:54 PM Davide Prina <davide.prina@gmail.com> wrote:

> I CC to Hermann because I don't know if he has subscribe to this
> mailing-list.
>
> On 21/04/21 12:11, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 08:00:05AM +0000, Hermann Ingjaldsson wrote:
> >> I have developed a program that makes it easier to work in the terminal.
> >> I have published it here:
> >> https://openage.org/gg/
>
> > To be honest I couldn't understand from this page what does this software
> > actually do except for displaying the folder contents, for which you
> could
> > just use a much more featureful file navigator like mc (or, if one likes
> > toys and vim integration, run `vim .`).
>
> I think it is not so simple to understand what that software can do,
> probably it is better that Hermann create some examples that show what
> you can do with that.
>
> I have seen other terminal "extensions" that let you have help during
> command composition...
>
> >> Would Debian be interested in including GG in the Debian system?
>
> > Debian cannot include it until it has a license (and a DFSG-free one).
> > But I also doubt Debian will benefit from including his software.
>
> If I don't mistake the software don't have a copyright statement and a
> license to apply to them.
>
> If this is correct the software cannot be used by anyone without a
> written permission signed by the copyright owner.
>
> I suggest to Hermann to search for a license to use and then to compile
> a correct "use" of that license (== Copyright + license).
>
> You can find an useful introduction on how to do that here, also if you
> don't select the GPL license:
> https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html
>
> I would like to suggest to use always the AGPL license, this one is the
> only license that I know that let protect your free software on any
> actual usage type.
>
> After you have done that and you have select a license that is
> "compatible" with Debian you can do:
>
> 1) ask is someone in Debian (a DD = Debian Developer) or someone else
> can create a package for this software and maintain it.
>
> for doing that you can fill a bug report in the wnpp pseudo-package
> you can see here the wnpp filled actually
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?package=wnpp
>
> I would warn you that this is not a good choice, because probably you
> don't will find anyone that will do that.
>
> 2) package your software yourself and do the maintenance work. You must
> find a mentor that tell you what, eventually, you have make in the wrong
> way and help you solve problems. And also a DD: someone (that can be the
> same person above) that can publish the package in the Debian repository
> for you
>
> you can find more info here:
> https://mentors.debian.net
>
> Ciao
> Davide
>
>

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#12358

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On Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 06:33 Hermann Ingjaldsson <
hermanningjaldsson@gmail.com> wrote:

> hey did i miss any emails?
> sorry for the delayed response, i had to take care of things.
> im not sure how to subscribe to this email list.
>

You can subscribe here:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/

Jacob Lifshay

>

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#12359

Hi Hermann,

On 30/04/2021 14:56, Hermann Ingjaldsson wrote:
> hey did i miss any emails?
> sorry for the delayed response, i had to take care of things.
> im not sure how to subscribe to this email list.

I CC-ed you then. That said, if you want to subscribe, check this page:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/

> i have updated the website to describe right at the start, what this
> program actually does.
> and now there is a copyright disclaimer in the .bin.
> openage.org/gg <http://openage.org/gg>
> 
> thank you for the feedback. its very useful.
> 
> im not quite sure how to ask someone to create a package for this
> project in debian.
> if i make a bug report.. but this is not a bug. this is a program that
> im trying to promote.
> 
> Should i send an email to wnpp@debian.org
> <https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?maint=wnpp%40debian.org>
> ?

You can make an RFP bug. Every request (even "it'd be nice to do this")
is handled by Debian BTS, so we call all these bugs as well.

Indeed, the pseudopackage used for non-yet-existing package is WNPP, so
you can use this, but if you have a Debian system handy, the best and
easiest way to report a bug is the reportbug program:

https://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/#l1

It will help you making sure your message includes everything needed
(even if you send it as email with a separate program afterward instead
of sending it with reportbug directly).

Cheers,

-- 
nodens

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#12360

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On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 12:56:31PM +0000, Hermann Ingjaldsson wrote:
> and now there is a copyright disclaimer in the .bin.
Not sure what do you mean by that, but the software still doesn';t have a
license stated anywhere.

> im not quite sure how to ask someone to create a package for this project
> in debian.
You can submit an RFP bug to the wnpp pseudopackage but that won't
guarantee anything. Also, we don't package software without a license
anyway.

> if i make a bug report.. but this is not a bug. this is a program that im
> trying to promote.
Exactly.
Debian is not a place to promote your programs.

-- 
WBR, wRAR

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#12361

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Quoting Andrey Rahmatullin (2021-04-30 16:22:17)
> On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 12:56:31PM +0000, Hermann Ingjaldsson wrote:
> > if i make a bug report.. but this is not a bug. this is a program 
> > that im trying to promote.
> Exactly.
> Debian is not a place to promote your programs.

Uhm, what are RFP bugs if not exactly a way for someone to promote the 
existence of code projects they consider relevant to get into Debian?


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#12362

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On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 04:57:55PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > > if i make a bug report.. but this is not a bug. this is a program 
> > > that im trying to promote.
> > Exactly.
> > Debian is not a place to promote your programs.
> 
> Uhm, what are RFP bugs if not exactly a way for someone to promote the 
> existence of code projects they consider relevant to get into Debian?
The main purpose of RFP bugs is to collect dust.
Also, they are created from stale ITP bugs by Bart's scripts.
And as far as RFP bugs are useful for finding software to package, I feel
like ones about software that someone finds useful but lacks the skills to
package it are much more useful than ones created by software authors.

-- 
WBR, wRAR

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#12363

On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 08:14:10PM +0500, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 04:57:55PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > > > if i make a bug report.. but this is not a bug. this is a program 
> > > > that im trying to promote.
> > > Exactly.
> > > Debian is not a place to promote your programs.
> > 
> > Uhm, what are RFP bugs if not exactly a way for someone to promote the 
> > existence of code projects they consider relevant to get into Debian?
> The main purpose of RFP bugs is to collect dust.
> Also, they are created from stale ITP bugs by Bart's scripts.
> And as far as RFP bugs are useful for finding software to package, I feel
> like ones about software that someone finds useful but lacks the skills to
> package it are much more useful than ones created by software authors.
> 
> WBR, wRAR

Andrey,

We need to talk.
Location  https://jitsi.debian.social/ExactLocationYetUnknown

Which date does suit you?


 
Regards
Geert Stappers
DD
-- 
Silence is hard to parse

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