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Proposal to deprecate and remove mailing list specific code of conduct

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  Proposal to deprecate and remove mailing list specific code of conduct "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2020-11-23 21:30 +0100
    Re: Proposal to deprecate and remove mailing list specific code of conduct Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2020-11-26 09:30 +0100
      Re: Proposal to deprecate and remove mailing list specific code of conduct Alexander Wirt <formorer@formorer.de> - 2020-11-26 10:20 +0100

#12107 — Proposal to deprecate and remove mailing list specific code of conduct

Folks,

We currently have a minimal Debian mailing list code of conduct at
https://www.debian.org/MailingLists which is, essentially,
primarily tips on how to format email. At the same time, we have the
main Debian Code of Conduct at https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct} which 
is also referenced on the mailing lists page.

This has the potential to be confusing and certainly the intent of the
text overlaps in large part: is it now sensible to drop the mailing
list code of conduct per se and refer only to the main Debian code of
conduct in the future?

The fewer resources we have to direct people to, have to keep up to
date and to copy across various platforms then potentially the better.

Note: For the avoidance of doubt: this is not an attempt to lessen the
good effect of the mailing list code of conduct, which has been in effect
for a long time, nor is it an excuse for another flame war as to
whether/why we should have any code of conduct at all.  

The main Debian Code of Conduct, applicable to all Debian mailing lists, 
forums and public media is probably enough for all purposes, works well and
was passed into effect by a GR: in some sense, that's not negotiable. 
This is merely an attempt to simplify things a little
particularly for folk new to Debian.

Your thoughts on this would be very much appreciated

With all the very best wishes to all, as ever,

Andy Cater

[Speaking on behalf of the Debian Community team: this content of this email
has also been reviewed by other members of the team]

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#12109

Hi Andrew,

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 08:12:35PM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> We currently have a minimal Debian mailing list code of conduct at
> https://www.debian.org/MailingLists which is, essentially,
> primarily tips on how to format email. At the same time, we have the
> main Debian Code of Conduct at https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct} which 
> is also referenced on the mailing lists page.
[...]
> Your thoughts on this would be very much appreciated

When I made the proposal for the Debian CoC, I asked for the list
manager's feedback. This was their reponse:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/02/msg00045.html

After I prodded a bit about the mailinglist specific parts that
Alexander referred to in that mail, he replied with:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/02/msg00054.html

In other words, unless their position has changed in the intervening
years, listmasters don't really want to lose their document, because
they believe it still has value.

As I'm not involved in listmastery, I can't really say whether or not I
agree with that position, but I do think that if you want to drop the
mailinglist CoC you need to convince listmasters first that it's
actually a good idea to do so.

I'll finish with saying that it was always my intent that the Debian CoC
replace the Mailinglist CoC; but when it became clear that listmasters
really didn't want to see that document go, I couldn't think of any
better way to move forward than to make the mailinglist CoC be linked to
from the Debian CoC (as suggested through amendment by Neil McGovern),
and so in effect make it explicit that one does not override the other.

-- 
To the thief who stole my anti-depressants: I hope you're happy

  -- seen somewhere on the Internet on a photo of a billboard

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#12110

Hi,

> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 08:12:35PM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > Folks,
> > 
> > We currently have a minimal Debian mailing list code of conduct at
> > https://www.debian.org/MailingLists which is, essentially,
> > primarily tips on how to format email. At the same time, we have the
> > main Debian Code of Conduct at https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct} which 
> > is also referenced on the mailing lists page.
> [...]
> > Your thoughts on this would be very much appreciated
> 
> When I made the proposal for the Debian CoC, I asked for the list
> manager's feedback. This was their reponse:
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/02/msg00045.html
> 
> After I prodded a bit about the mailinglist specific parts that
> Alexander referred to in that mail, he replied with:
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/02/msg00054.html
> 
> In other words, unless their position has changed in the intervening
> years, listmasters don't really want to lose their document, because
> they believe it still has value.
> 
> As I'm not involved in listmastery, I can't really say whether or not I
> agree with that position, but I do think that if you want to drop the
> mailinglist CoC you need to convince listmasters first that it's
> actually a good idea to do so.

Basically my opinion is still the same, but if you clean up the
Mailinglist CoC and remove all non list specific things we can just
use it as an amendment to the general CoC. 

Alex 

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