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Groups > linux.debian.project > #8978
| From | Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | linux.debian.project |
| Subject | Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) |
| Date | 2016-12-12 18:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <sNCqB-75R-7@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink) |
| References | <sLj8J-81i-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <sNonE-6Rt-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <sNyGm-4Q4-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <sNzM6-5s8-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| Organization | linux.* mail to news gateway |
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Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> writes:
> On Monday, December 12, 2016 01:16:49 PM Ian Jackson wrote:
>> Scott Kitterman writes ("Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in
> source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers)"):
>> > If anyone can unilaterally add themselves as maintainer (to pick one
>> > proposal as an example) and make intrusive package changes (since
>> > they are a maintainer), there's really no maintainer at all.
>>
>> I was suggesting this only for the situtation where there is only one
>> maintainer.
>
> I know, but once it's one, then it will be two, because reasons.
>
>> > I do sense a general trend of the conversation towards the idea of
>> > undermining package maintainership. Push to hard in that direction
>> > and you get revert wars and even larger chunks of the archive left
>> > to rot.
>>
>> I think we have a problem that a few maintainers are unresponsive to
>> external corrective input, or uncommunicative (except to block). I
>> don't think our systems for dealing with such situations are any good.
>> It mostly seems to involve having a conversation (necessarily) full of
>> personal attacks, on the TC list.
>
> I agree the current system isn't working, but I think if you optimize for
> these relatively rare hard cases, you'll do more harm than good.
I have to agree: my thought on this was that hard cases make bad law.
The thing that comes to mind from my experience would be the request to
enable ssh -c none (which turns off crypto, giving better speed in
exchange for exposing private key material to the net, and only meant
for testing).
Some people were _very_ keen on this idea indeed. The related bug
(#13389) doesn't really give the full impression.
Of course times are quite different, and it would be a very brave person
who would now try to unilaterally join debian-ssh and upload a patched
package, but I imagine there are other security sensitive packages being
quietly and carefully maintained by someone that doesn't realise that
they're giving a public impression of inactivity.
> In line with some other recent comments (I think on this list, I lose track),
> I think if the TC were a bit more aggressive about requiring people with
> issues they want the TC to address to put them in neutral technical terms
> (the U.S. legal parallel would be roughly case dismissed for failure to make a
> justiciable claim [1]) before they will consider them, the existing process
> could work in a less painful way.
Until now I've tended to be irritated by the way courts do that, but
suddenly I have more of an understanding of why they do ;-)
Having someone that is familiar with court processes on the TC might
help. I don't know if any of the current batch have a legal background.
I wonder how long it would be before people start acting as advocates to
guide others though our increasingly arcane rules -- that might actually
work quite well though. Perhaps we'd have a better process if someone
not involved in the dispute acted as champion for each party, so that
even timid folk could be confident that the person they were dealing
with was on their side.
> It would also help if third parties kept their rants to a minimum.
I'm not sure what sanction we could enforce for contempt of TC ;-)
Cheers, Phil.
--
|)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd.
|-| http://www.hands.com/ http://ftp.uk.debian.org/
|(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg, GERMANY
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Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-01 16:50 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@debian.org> - 2016-12-01 17:20 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2016-12-01 18:30 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-01 19:00 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-01 18:50 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-01 19:10 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@debian.org> - 2016-12-01 19:30 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Sheetal Shalini <sheetalsh456@gmail.com> - 2016-12-03 11:40 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Jérémy Bobbio <lunar@debian.org> - 2016-12-03 21:30 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2016-12-08 16:30 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2016-12-01 19:10 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Clint Adams <clint@debian.org> - 2016-12-01 19:30 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@debian.org> - 2016-12-01 19:40 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Stefano Zacchiroli <zack@debian.org> - 2016-12-01 19:30 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-02 12:50 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Johannes Schauer <josch@debian.org> - 2016-12-02 13:40 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-02 14:00 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2016-12-02 16:10 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Iustin Pop <iustin@debian.org> - 2016-12-02 20:40 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2016-12-02 13:20 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Johannes Schauer <josch@debian.org> - 2016-12-02 13:50 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2016-12-02 14:50 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Mattia Rizzolo <mattia@debian.org> - 2016-12-02 16:30 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2016-12-02 23:30 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2016-12-03 07:00 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-03 11:30 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2016-12-03 11:50 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Sheetal Shalini <sheetalsh456@gmail.com> - 2016-12-03 11:50 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers David Bremner <david@tethera.net> - 2016-12-03 12:20 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers [and 1 more messages] Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-05 12:40 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers [and 1 more messages] Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2016-12-05 18:50 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers [and 1 more messages] Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-05 19:10 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers [and 1 more messages] Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi> - 2016-12-05 19:20 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers [and 1 more messages] Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi> - 2016-12-05 20:10 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers [and 1 more messages] Laura Arjona Reina <larjona@debian.org> - 2016-12-05 20:10 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers [and 1 more messages] Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2016-12-05 21:10 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers [and 1 more messages] Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-05 23:10 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers [and 1 more messages] Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2016-12-06 05:30 +0100
Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Johannes Schauer <josch@debian.org> - 2016-12-06 09:20 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2016-12-06 10:20 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Johannes Schauer <josch@debian.org> - 2016-12-06 15:00 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> - 2016-12-06 15:20 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2016-12-06 15:20 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Johannes Schauer <josch@debian.org> - 2016-12-06 16:00 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi> - 2016-12-06 16:10 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Johannes Schauer <josch@debian.org> - 2016-12-06 16:20 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Lars Wirzenius <liw@liw.fi> - 2016-12-06 16:30 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-06 16:50 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Enrico Zini <enrico@enricozini.org> - 2016-12-11 19:50 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 02:30 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2016-12-12 02:40 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 03:00 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2016-12-12 03:20 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 14:20 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2016-12-12 15:30 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 18:20 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2016-12-12 18:20 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2016-12-12 19:40 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2016-12-12 09:30 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2016-12-12 13:50 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2016-12-06 16:40 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Christian Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2016-12-06 18:40 +0100
Re: Formal declaration of weak package ownership in source packages (was: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-06 14:50 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2016-12-08 16:40 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Rhonda D'Vine <rhonda@deb.at> - 2016-12-09 13:10 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 02:20 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-02 16:50 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2016-12-03 11:50 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-03 18:40 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2016-12-03 23:30 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-05 12:10 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2016-12-05 19:30 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2016-12-05 21:20 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-05 23:10 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2016-12-05 23:20 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-06 00:20 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2016-12-06 01:00 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-06 15:10 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2016-12-06 05:40 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Didier 'OdyX' Raboud <odyx@debian.org> - 2016-12-05 15:20 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-06 15:30 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Stefano Zacchiroli <zack@debian.org> - 2016-12-07 11:30 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-07 12:00 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2016-12-08 07:40 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2016-12-08 11:30 +0100
Maintainerless Hive-Mind? (was Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2016-12-08 03:20 +0100
Re: Maintainerless Hive-Mind? (was Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers) Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2016-12-09 11:40 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Didier 'OdyX' Raboud <odyx@debian.org> - 2016-12-05 15:20 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-05 15:50 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2016-12-05 19:50 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-05 15:50 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Didier 'OdyX' Raboud <odyx@debian.org> - 2016-12-05 16:10 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-05 18:50 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2016-12-05 21:30 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-05 23:00 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2016-12-05 21:20 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2016-12-05 22:10 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2016-12-05 22:20 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2016-12-05 22:50 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Matthew Woodcraft <matthew@woodcraft.me.uk> - 2016-12-05 23:20 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2016-12-10 07:50 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-12 02:40 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2016-12-16 13:30 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-16 14:10 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Russell Stuart <russell-debian@stuart.id.au> - 2016-12-07 00:10 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Didier 'OdyX' Raboud <odyx@debian.org> - 2016-12-07 09:40 +0100
Re: Replace the TC power to depose maintainers Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2016-12-07 12:00 +0100
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