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Re: FW: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux

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Hi Jonathan
On 6/3/2020 4:40 PM, Jonathan Carter wrote:
> Hey Mark
> 
> On 2020/06/03 20:24, Mark Pearson wrote:
> 
<snip>
>> In my mind the best long term solution for Debian is if Lenovo are
>> contributing fixes ourselves - after all we usually know what the fixes
>> are. We're not technically at the stage where that is doable though -
>> but it's what I'm aiming for and I'm the trial guinea-pig.
> 
> Fantastic! Yes feel free to reach out to me any time if you need some
> help. I can give some guidance with Debian procedures or can help you
> with sponsoring fixes, patches and package uploads, but what I can't do
> is pressure someone in a team to prioritise an issue or force them to
> accept a patch that they don't want, but I think in general, people will
> be supportive in getting issues solved to get Debian on an OEM laptop
> (and fixing these issues in Debian helps for all our existing ThinkPad
> users too).
> 
That sounds awesome.

And agreed - I would never want to pressure picking up patches that are 
wrong. My general mantra to *anybody* in open source for any of our 
Linux offerings is if you see us doing anything crappy let me know as 
it's very important to me that we do things right. I think any open 
source collaboration has to be correct for both sides or it will just 
get shunned.

My expectation is anything I ask for is upstream so I can't see asking 
for anything controversial :)

>> For me the first step would be an understanding that if we propose a
>> patch then we're doing it for a good reason and it doesn't sit there for
>> a couple of months.
> 
> I did another talk over the last weekend in our first ever online
> MiniDebConf where I talked about our patch backlog, we definitely want
> to get better at this.
> 
>> I don't think we're at the stage where you can trust us to merge things
>> in without review but longer term I'd hope to be a more trusted
>> community member who can be relied on to deliver quality items. How we
>> get from here to there is in my mind the challenge - for that we need
>> support and I appreciate peoples time is limited and very precious :)
> 
> Nice! If you're interested, it would be great for you to join us a full
> fledged project member too. That takes a lot of work, but in the
> meantime we also have a status called Debian Maintainer where you're
> allowed to upload some packages without any supervision before you're a
> full Debian Developer.
I would be really interested in this. This month is crazy with planning 
for the web release (too many meetings...) but Debian is important and 
I'd like to make time for it. Let me know what the recommended steps 
are. So far I've been raising bugs and doing a few kernel merge requests 
(and in the process of that asking Hector probably too many questions 
about how to do kernel tasks)
> 
>>>> I think we generally care about the hardware that we have, and that our
>>>> employers typically buy and deploy. I think "other people's hardware
>>>> problems" will always be less exciting than your own. Usually when more
>>>> of the latest hardware starts hitting us personally we tend to care
>>>> more. I think part of this is just natural.
>>
>> Agreed. I'm afraid from a Lenovo preload shipping point of view it has
>> to be the latest HW though and that's a challenge.
>> If it's any consolation, whilst I have access to a lot of devices I also
>> have to fight for some HW access. I don't have an X1C8 yet (my colleague
>> does....I'm not bitter ;)) Getting HW where it needs to be is one of the
>> big challenges I face generally.
> 
> I understand. From a preload point of view, I suppose it's possible to
> start off with a subset of laptops that might work well? Or is there a
> strong preference from Lenovo to support a wide range from the start (I
> noticed that that's what Fedora did, so just wanted to check).
I think a subset is almost certainly the way to realistically go but 
I'll discuss internally. As I'm sure you appreciate this stuff doesn't 
happen overnight :)

With Fedora on both sides we're still learning what works and doesn't 
for their community. We also need to gauge customer interest and there 
is a cost in Lenovo for every preload we do - we have internal testing, 
manufacturing and support costs that apply so it has to be worth it. I'm 
hoping it's a no-brainer.

Mark

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Re: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2020-06-03 18:10 +0200
  Re: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-06-03 18:50 +0200
  Re: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> - 2020-06-03 19:20 +0200
  Re: FW: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux Mark Pearson <markpearson@lenovo.com> - 2020-06-03 20:50 +0200
    Re: FW: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2020-06-03 22:50 +0200
      Re: FW: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux Mark Pearson <markpearson@lenovo.com> - 2020-06-04 00:10 +0200
        Re: Re: FW: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux Hideki Yamane <henrich@iijmio-mail.jp> - 2020-06-05 08:30 +0200
    Re: FW: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2020-06-05 21:50 +0200
      Re: FW: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2020-06-06 05:40 +0200
        Re: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux Marc Haber <mh+debian-project@zugschlus.de> - 2020-06-09 17:20 +0200
          Re: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> - 2020-06-09 18:20 +0200
          Re: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2020-06-09 19:30 +0200
            Re: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2020-06-09 21:40 +0200
              Re: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2020-06-10 02:50 +0200
                Re: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux Michael Kesper <mkesper@schokokeks.org> - 2020-06-10 14:20 +0200
                Re: [External] Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2020-06-10 17:40 +0200
        Re: Debian utility live distribution (was Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux) Harshad Joshi <firewalrus@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 07:20 +0200
        Re: Debian utility live distribution (was Re: ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux) RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2020-06-12 07:50 +0200
  Debian hardware support and enablement for newer devices (was ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux) Hector Oron <zumbi@debian.org> - 2020-06-04 00:10 +0200
    Re: Debian hardware support and enablement for newer devices (was ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux) Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2020-06-04 05:10 +0200
      Re: Debian hardware support and enablement for newer devices (was ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux) Ansgar <ansgar@debian.org> - 2020-06-05 12:40 +0200
        Re: Debian hardware support and enablement for newer devices (was ThinkPad laptops preinstalled Linux) Noah Meyerhans <noahm@debian.org> - 2020-06-05 19:20 +0200

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