Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.maint.python > #10618 > unrolled thread

Could somebody change the alioth documentation, have a buster roadmap and know what's missing to move to python 3 entirely.

Back to article view | Back to linux.debian.maint.python

Contents

  Could somebody change the alioth documentation, have a buster roadmap  and know what's missing to move to python 3 entirely. shirish शिरीष <shirishag75@gmail.com> - 2018-06-06 17:10 +0200
    Re: Could somebody change the alioth documentation, have a buster  roadmap and know what's missing to move to python 3 entirely. Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-06-06 17:30 +0200
    Re: Could somebody change the alioth documentation, have a buster  roadmap and know what's missing to move to python 3 entirely. shirish शिरीष <shirishag75@gmail.com> - 2018-06-06 19:00 +0200
      Re: Could somebody change the alioth documentation, have a buster  roadmap and know what's missing to move to python 3 entirely. Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-06-06 20:10 +0200
      Re: Could somebody change the alioth documentation, have a buster roadmap and know what's missing to move to python 3 entirely. Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2018-06-07 11:10 +0200
        Re: Could somebody change the alioth documentation, have a buster  roadmap and know what's missing to move to python 3 entirely. Ondrej Novy <novy@ondrej.org> - 2018-06-07 12:00 +0200
          Re: Could somebody change the alioth documentation, have a buster roadmap and know what's missing to move to python 3 entirely. Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2018-06-08 00:10 +0200

#10618 — Could somebody change the alioth documentation, have a buster roadmap and know what's missing to move to python 3 entirely.

Dear Friends,

I was just looking for documentation about what's keeping us from
getting to python 3 but couldn't find anything which I could lay my
finger on.

I did find some obsolete documentation though on the wiki. The entries
can be seen at -

https://wiki.debian.org/Python

and

https://wiki.debian.org/Python/Python3Port

The list addresses are of alioth glven therein. I am guessing most of
those mails have been submerged in debian-python debian mailing list
(i.e. here) probably.

I was also looking for a BusterRoadmap on lines of the Stretch roadmap
and the Jessie roadmap from before but didn't find anything :(

https://wiki.debian.org/Python/StretchRoadmap
https://wiki.debian.org/Python/JessieRoadmap

I have also been trying to understand which packages/modules are
remaining for python 3 to be the default-python

$ apt-cache policy python
python:
  Installed: 2.7.15~rc1-1
  Candidate: 2.7.15~rc1-1
  Version table:
 *** 2.7.15~rc1-1 500
        500 http://cdn-fastly.deb.debian.org/debian buster/main amd64 Packages
        100 http://cdn-fastly.deb.debian.org/debian unstable/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status

Look forward to answers. I do remember of times reading documentation
when the stdlib did not have all the libraries of a particular 3.x
version. I also remember reading somewhere that we still used lot of
python 2 scripts. Another could be that 2.7 will have support till
2020.

In either way having a roadmap would be nice.

-- 
          Regards,
          Shirish Agarwal  शिरीष अग्रवाल
  My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/
http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com
EB80 462B 08E1 A0DE A73A  2C2F 9F3D C7A4 E1C4 D2D8

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#10619 — Re: Could somebody change the alioth documentation, have a buster roadmap and know what's missing to move to python 3 entirely.

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, Jun 06, 2018 at 08:38:56PM +0530, shirish शिरीष wrote:
> I was just looking for documentation about what's keeping us from
> getting to python 3
Depends on your definition of "getting to python 3".

> I have also been trying to understand which packages/modules are
> remaining for python 3 to be the default-python
There is no default Python in Debian.

> $ apt-cache policy python
The python package will never contain Python 3.

-- 
WBR, wRAR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#10620 — Re: Could somebody change the alioth documentation, have a buster roadmap and know what's missing to move to python 3 entirely.

at bottom :-

On 06/06/2018, shirish शिरीष <shirishag75@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Friends,
>
> I was just looking for documentation about what's keeping us from
> getting to python 3 but couldn't find anything which I could lay my
> finger on.
>
> I did find some obsolete documentation though on the wiki. The entries
> can be seen at -
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/Python
>
> and
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/Python/Python3Port
>
> The list addresses are of alioth glven therein. I am guessing most of
> those mails have been submerged in debian-python debian mailing list
> (i.e. here) probably.
>
> I was also looking for a BusterRoadmap on lines of the Stretch roadmap
> and the Jessie roadmap from before but didn't find anything :(
>
> https://wiki.debian.org/Python/StretchRoadmap
> https://wiki.debian.org/Python/JessieRoadmap
>
> I have also been trying to understand which packages/modules are
> remaining for python 3 to be the default-python
>
> $ apt-cache policy python
> python:
>   Installed: 2.7.15~rc1-1
>   Candidate: 2.7.15~rc1-1
>   Version table:
>  *** 2.7.15~rc1-1 500
>         500 http://cdn-fastly.deb.debian.org/debian buster/main amd64
> Packages
>         100 http://cdn-fastly.deb.debian.org/debian unstable/main amd64
> Packages
>         100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
>
> Look forward to answers. I do remember of times reading documentation
> when the stdlib did not have all the libraries of a particular 3.x
> version. I also remember reading somewhere that we still used lot of
> python 2 scripts. Another could be that 2.7 will have support till
> 2020.
>
> In either way having a roadmap would be nice.
>

I just read Andrey's mail at
https://lists.debian.org/debian-python/2018/06/msg00024.html . Please
CC me if somebody replies.

Maybe it would have been better to say that right now python gives

$ python --version
Python 2.7.15

To be more precise,  I meant to know if 'Bullseye' i.e Debian 11 would
have python 3.0 as default or not.

-- 
          Regards,
          Shirish Agarwal  शिरीष अग्रवाल
  My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/
http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com
EB80 462B 08E1 A0DE A73A  2C2F 9F3D C7A4 E1C4 D2D8

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#10621 — Re: Could somebody change the alioth documentation, have a buster roadmap and know what's missing to move to python 3 entirely.

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Wed, Jun 06, 2018 at 10:20:13PM +0530, shirish शिरीष wrote:
> Maybe it would have been better to say that right now python gives
> 
> $ python --version
> Python 2.7.15
> 
> To be more precise,  I meant to know if 'Bullseye' i.e Debian 11 would
> have python 3.0 as default or not.
/usr/bin/python will, too, never be a Python 3 executable.

-- 
WBR, wRAR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#10623 — Re: Could somebody change the alioth documentation, have a buster roadmap and know what's missing to move to python 3 entirely.

shirish शिरीष <shirishag75@gmail.com> writes:

> On 06/06/2018, shirish शिरीष <shirishag75@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have also been trying to understand which packages/modules are
> > remaining for python 3 to be the default-python

There is no “default Python” in Debian. Python 2 and Python 3 are
separate run-time systems, and are provided by different packages.

> > $ apt-cache policy python

The ‘python’ package is always Python 2.

To find the default version of Python 3, you want the ‘python3’ package.

> I just read Andrey's mail at
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-python/2018/06/msg00024.html . Please
> CC me if somebody replies.

Please subscribe to the forum in order to participate.

> Maybe it would have been better to say that right now python gives
>
> $ python --version
> Python 2.7.15

Yes. The ‘/usr/bin/python’ program is the Python 2 interpreter. There
are no plans yet for that to change.

The ‘/usr/bin/python2’ program is the Python 2 interpreter, and always
will be.

The ‘/usr/bin/python3’ program is the Python 3 interpreter, and always
will be.

There is no command in Debian for “the default Python”, because Python 2
and Python 3 are separate run-time systems that are not fully
compatible. By using one of the above commands, you are explicitly
declaring which Python run-time system to use.

> To be more precise,  I meant to know if 'Bullseye' i.e Debian 11 would
> have python 3.0 as default or not.

Bullseye will have both Python 2 and Python 3 available to install. I
know of no plan to remove either of them in Bullseye.

There is no “default Python” in Debian. To run a Python interpreter, you
choose which major version you want to run; they are not meant to be
compatible, and (as you pointed out) they are both in common use. So
there is no default.

I hope that helps clarify the issue.

-- 
 \       “Come on, if your religion is so vulnerable that a little bit |
  `\           of disrespect is going to bring it down, it's not worth |
_o__)               believing in, frankly.” —Terry Gilliam, 2005-01-18 |
Ben Finney

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#10624 — Re: Could somebody change the alioth documentation, have a buster roadmap and know what's missing to move to python 3 entirely.

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Hi,

2018-06-07 11:03 GMT+02:00 Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org>:
>
> There is no “default Python” in Debian....
> ...
> There is no command in Debian for “the default Python”,
> ...
> There is no “default Python” in Debian.
>

do I understand you correctly that there is no default Python in Debian? :)

Just kiddin', thanks for explanation.

-- 
Best regards
 Ondřej Nový

Email: novy@ondrej.org
PGP: 3D98 3C52 EB85 980C 46A5  6090 3573 1255 9D1E 064B

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#10631 — Re: Could somebody change the alioth documentation, have a buster roadmap and know what's missing to move to python 3 entirely.

Ondrej Novy <novy@ondrej.org> writes:

> do I understand you correctly that there is no default Python in
> Debian? :)

:-) Hopefully a little polite repetition will help the point become
clearer, though Andrey said it plainly in the initial response.

Shirish, now that we've established there is no “default Python” in
Debian, you may want to know that there *is* a concept of the default
interpreter for *a specific Python major version*.

You can ask the Debian system. First choose which Python major version
(currently Python 2 or Python 3) you want, then run the command to ask
what interpreter command to use:

    $ pyversions --default  # What is the name of the default Python 2 interpreter command?
    python2.7

    $ py3version --default  # What is the name of the default Python 3 interpreter command?
    python3.6

Note that you can *only* ask about the default within a specific Python
major version. Each of those commands is installed by a completely
separate Python environment, and neither of them care about the other:

    $ dpkg --search $(which pyversions py3versions)
    python-minimal: /usr/bin/pyversions
    python3-minimal: /usr/bin/py3versions

The ‘pyversions’ command asks *only* about Python 2. The ‘py3versions’
commandasks *only* about Python 3.

The answer you get for “default interpreter” depends which Python major
version you choose to interrogate; there's no default choice.

-- 
 \     “If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will |
  `\      not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog |
_o__)                    and a man.” —Mark Twain, _Pudd'n'head Wilson_ |
Ben Finney

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | linux.debian.maint.python

csiph-web