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Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch?

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  Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 09:00 +0200
    Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 10:00 +0200
      Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? "W. Martin Borgert" <debacle@debian.org> - 2018-04-24 10:20 +0200
        Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 12:30 +0200
    Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? "W. Martin Borgert" <debacle@debian.org> - 2018-04-24 10:00 +0200
    Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-04-24 10:10 +0200
      Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 12:30 +0200
        Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-04-24 12:50 +0200
          Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 15:30 +0200
            Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Brian May <bam@debian.org> - 2018-04-25 02:50 +0200
              Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 05:20 +0200
    Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Ludovic Gasc <gmludo@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 16:50 +0200
      Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 17:10 +0200
        Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-04-24 17:30 +0200
          Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 19:10 +0200
            Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-04-24 19:10 +0200
              Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 19:20 +0200
                Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-04-24 19:30 +0200
                  Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 05:10 +0200
                    Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2018-04-25 08:00 +0200
        Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2018-04-24 18:00 +0200
          Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 18:50 +0200
            Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2018-04-24 20:00 +0200
              Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 05:10 +0200
                Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Jeremy Stanley <fungi@yuggoth.org> - 2018-04-25 16:20 +0200
                  Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 19:20 +0200
    Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Matthew Woodcraft <matthew@woodcraft.me.uk> - 2018-04-24 22:20 +0200
      Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Ludovic Gasc <gmludo@gmail.com> - 2018-04-24 23:00 +0200
        Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Matthew Woodcraft <matthew@woodcraft.me.uk> - 2018-04-24 23:30 +0200
      Re: Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch? Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 05:20 +0200

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#10438 — Backport of Python 3.6 for Debian Stretch?

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I'm using Debian 9 on an ARM board (BeagleBone), for our IoT project.
We write an application which needs Python 3.6. But we are struggling with
packaging Python 3.6 as deb packages for Debian 9. We found the dsc file
for Debian buster. But there is difference in dependency hierarchy between
Stretch and Buster, so the found script produces *.deb files which are not
installable (due to missing dependencies).

Could you please provide an official packaging script for Python 3.6 and
Debian 9?

Thank you.


-- 
Quân

Nguyễn Hồng Quân
☎ 093 9030 338
Facebook: ng.hong.quan
🌏 quan.hoabinh.vn  agriconnect.vn

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#10439

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Python 3.6 has much better performance than Python 3.5, especially on
embedded computer (I tried and compared).
I also like new Python 3.6 features: f-string, improved type hint (Python
3.5 has it, but Python 3.6 improved).

On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 2:44 PM, W. Martin Borgert <debacle@debian.org>
wrote:

> Could you elaborate, why you need Python 3.6 instead of 3.5?
> Maybe there is a way to make your application work with 3.5?
> E.g. by backporting specific modules?
>

-- 
Quân

Nguyễn Hồng Quân
☎ 093 9030 338
Facebook: ng.hong.quan
🌏 quan.hoabinh.vn  agriconnect.vn

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#10442

Quoting Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com>:
> Python 3.6 has much better performance than Python 3.5, especially on
> embedded computer (I tried and compared).

This is interesting! Did you also compare Python 2.7 with 3.5/3.6?
I'm looking for more reasons to finally port my embedded software :~)

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#10443

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On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 3:12 PM, W. Martin Borgert <debacle@debian.org>
wrote:

> This is interesting! Did you also compare Python 2.7 with 3.5/3.6?
>
>
​No, I'm not interested in Python 2. Every my project is started with
Python 3.​

-- 
Quân

Nguyễn Hồng Quân
☎ 093 9030 338
Facebook: ng.hong.quan
🌏 quan.hoabinh.vn  agriconnect.vn

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#10440

Quoting Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com>:
> We write an application which needs Python 3.6.

Could you elaborate, why you need Python 3.6 instead of 3.5?
Maybe there is a way to make your application work with 3.5?
E.g. by backporting specific modules?

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#10441

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On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 01:58:23PM +0700, Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
> Could you please provide an official packaging script for Python 3.6 and
> Debian 9?
It's not enough to backport the interpreter, all binary modules will need
to be recompiled too.

-- 
WBR, wRAR

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#10444

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On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 3:05 PM, Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> wrote:

> It's not enough to backport the interpreter, all binary modules will need
> to be recompiled too.
>

​Why?​
Just leave Python3.6 exist in parallel to Python3.5. Don't touch Python3.5
package folder. Don't convert python3-xxx to be usable with Python3.6.


-- 
Quân

Nguyễn Hồng Quân
☎ 093 9030 338
Facebook: ng.hong.quan
🌏 quan.hoabinh.vn  agriconnect.vn

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#10445

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On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 05:27:08PM +0700, Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
> > It's not enough to backport the interpreter, all binary modules will need
> > to be recompiled too.
> >
> 
> ​Why?​
To be able to be imported in Python3.6.

-- 
WBR, wRAR

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#10450

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On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 5:41 PM, Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 05:27:08PM +0700, Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
> > > It's not enough to backport the interpreter, all binary modules will
> need
> > > to be recompiled too.
> > ​Why?​
> To be able to be imported in Python3.6.
>

​Sorry? As I told, just leave the python3-xxx packages to be used with
python3.5 (default Python3 of Debian 9).
I don't need those to be used with Python3.6.
For whatever I need to use with Python3.6, I just install via "pip3.6".​
For Python3.6, you just need to provide python3.6 (+ its standard lib),
python3.6-dev.

-- 
Quân

Nguyễn Hồng Quân
☎ 093 9030 338
Facebook: ng.hong.quan
🌏 quan.hoabinh.vn  agriconnect.vn

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#10464

Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> writes:

> ​Sorry? As I told, just leave the python3-xxx packages to be used with
> python3.5 (default Python3 of Debian 9).
> I don't need those to be used with Python3.6.
> For whatever I need to use with Python3.6, I just install via "pip3.6".​
> For Python3.6, you just need to provide python3.6 (+ its standard lib),
> python3.6-dev.

If using pip to install packages is fine (which can result in compiling
from source although increasing use of wheels helps), then I personally
fail to see the problem with using something like pyenv.
-- 
Brian May <bam@debian.org>

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#10469

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On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 7:43 AM, Brian May <bam@debian.org> wrote:

> Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com> writes:
>
> If using pip to install packages is fine (which can result in compiling
> from source although increasing use of wheels helps), then I personally
> fail to see the problem with using something like pyenv.
>
>
​I use pip to install from pre-built wheel. I don't let pip to compile the
source on my embedded computer, because it also takes much time.​
​So in summary, I tried to avoid doing compilation job directly on my
embedded computer, either Python interpreter or Python C libraries.​

(Where I get wheel? I rent a bare-metal ARM server from Scaleway to build
the wheel there).


-- 
Quân

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#10451

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Hi,

You can use pythonz, conda or pyenv to install the version of Python you
want without to disturb your system.

Regards.

--
Ludovic Gasc (GMLudo)

2018-04-24 8:58 GMT+02:00 Nguyễn Hồng Quân <ng.hong.quan@gmail.com>:

> I'm using Debian 9 on an ARM board (BeagleBone), for our IoT project.
> We write an application which needs Python 3.6. But we are struggling with
> packaging Python 3.6 as deb packages for Debian 9. We found the dsc file
> for Debian buster. But there is difference in dependency hierarchy between
> Stretch and Buster, so the found script produces *.deb files which are not
> installable (due to missing dependencies).
>
> Could you please provide an official packaging script for Python 3.6 and
> Debian 9?
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> --
> Quân
>
> Nguyễn Hồng Quân
> ☎ 093 9030 338
> Facebook: ng.hong.quan
> 🌏 quan.hoabinh.vn  agriconnect.vn
>
>

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#10452

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On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 9:45 PM, Ludovic Gasc <gmludo@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> You can use pythonz, conda or pyenv to install the version of Python you
> want without to disturb your system.
>

​I don't need to "not disturb" system.
If have to use conda, pyenv, I would rather build Python3.6 from source
tarball, not to bring more overhead (conda body, pyenv body), and
"Python3.6 from source"​ still not disturb my system, because it is
installed to "/usr/local".

But I don't want any method that requires to build Python from source
(tarball, pythonz, conda or alike), because I really need *pre-built
binaries*.

As I told in the first email, I use Python in an embedded board (BeagleBone
Black), which is very limited in term of disk space and CPU.
Building Python is a very heavy job, taking nights to done, and I also want
to save flash space from storing Python source.


​So, I try to build Python as deb and use apt to install to my board. I was
successful to do so with Python 3.6.1, using the .dsc file found on Debian
buster repo. But since Python 3.6.4, the build script has changed
drastically that​ it cannot be use to build for Debian stretch.

Btw, what I need is just a build/packaging script. I don't need you to
build and publish Python3.6 to official repository.

-- 
Quân

Nguyễn Hồng Quân
☎ 093 9030 338
Facebook: ng.hong.quan
🌏 quan.hoabinh.vn  agriconnect.vn

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#10453

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On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 10:07:03PM +0700, Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
> ​So, I try to build Python as deb and use apt to install to my board. I was
> successful to do so with Python 3.6.1, using the .dsc file found on Debian
> buster repo. But since Python 3.6.4, the build script has changed
> drastically that​ it cannot be use to build for Debian stretch.
> 
> Btw, what I need is just a build/packaging script. I don't need you to
> build and publish Python3.6 to official repository.
Adapt it from the 3.6.1 one?

-- 
WBR, wRAR

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#10456

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On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 11:45 PM, Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@wrar.name> wrote:

> > > Adapt it from the 3.6.1 one?
> > >
> >
> > ​Excuse me. What do​ ​you mean by "adapt"?
> Replacing the tarball and changing the version in the changelog, for a
> start.
>

As I told: "But there is difference in dependency hierarchy between Stretch
and Buster, so the found script produces *.deb files which are not
installable (due to missing dependencies)."

​Changing changelog file is not enough to make it works.

One example:
>From 3.6.4, the build script specifies that​ python3.6 depends on
python3-distutils, but python3-distutils doesn't exist on Debian stretch.
In 3.61, there is no this dependence relationship, so the deb is
installable on Debian stretch.

"python3-distutils" is just one of problems starting to appear from Python
3.6.4 packaging script.


-- 
Quân

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#10457

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On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 12:01:45AM +0700, Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 11:45 PM, Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@wrar.name> wrote:
> 
> > > > Adapt it from the 3.6.1 one?
> > > >
> > >
> > > ​Excuse me. What do​ ​you mean by "adapt"?
> > Replacing the tarball and changing the version in the changelog, for a
> > start.
> >
> 
> As I told: "But there is difference in dependency hierarchy between Stretch
> and Buster, so the found script produces *.deb files which are not
> installable (due to missing dependencies)."
> 
> ​Changing changelog file is not enough to make it works.
> 
> One example:
> From 3.6.4, the build script specifies that​ python3.6 depends on
> python3-distutils, but python3-distutils doesn't exist on Debian stretch.
> In 3.61, there is no this dependence relationship, so the deb is
> installable on Debian stretch.
> 
> "python3-distutils" is just one of problems starting to appear from Python
> 3.6.4 packaging script.
How is this related to my suggestion?

-- 
WBR, wRAR

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#10458

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On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 12:05 AM, Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org>
wrote:

>
> How is this related to my suggestion?
>


​Your suggestion is:

​"
​
​Adapt it from the 3.6.1 one. Replacing the tarball and changing the
version in the changelog"

​And I'm proving that it is not enough.​

There are so many change between Debian's Python 3.6.1 & 3.6.4 packaging
script that I cannot do it myself and I have to request here. I don't
understand the packaging as well as the maintainers here.


-- 
Quân

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#10459

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On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 12:11:03AM +0700, Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 12:05 AM, Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org>
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > How is this related to my suggestion?
> >
> 
> 
> ​Your suggestion is:
> 
> ​"
> ​
> ​Adapt it from the 3.6.1 one. Replacing the tarball and changing the
> version in the changelog"
> 
> ​And I'm proving that it is not enough.​
No, you are talking about the 3.6.4 packaging files while I'm suggesting
to not use them.

-- 
WBR, wRAR

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#10466

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On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 12:21 AM, Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org>
wrote:

>
> No, you are talking about the 3.6.4 packaging files while I'm suggesting
> to not use them.
>

Do you mean to use "
​​python3.6_3.6.1-1.debian.tar.xz" (of 3.6.1) and change its number to
"python3.6_3.6.4-4.debian.tar.xz" (of 3.6.4) and change its changelog
content?

Unfortunately, the .debian.tar.xz for 3.6.1 already disappear from Debian
repository!
Today, even the 3.6.4 disappears, only 3.6.5 stay and the dependencies
graph of 3.6.5 is the same as 3.6.4.

-- 
Quân

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#10470

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On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 10:00:51AM +0700, Nguyễn Hồng Quân wrote:
> Do you mean to use "
> ​​python3.6_3.6.1-1.debian.tar.xz" (of 3.6.1) and change its number to
> "python3.6_3.6.4-4.debian.tar.xz" (of 3.6.4) and change its changelog
> content?
No, I meant to use the debian/ directory from that tarball, otherwise the
idea is more or less correct.

> Unfortunately, the .debian.tar.xz for 3.6.1 already disappear from Debian
> repository!
Well, you were able to compare the packaging so you had it locally. If you
don't anymore, there is always http://snapshot.debian.org/

-- 
WBR, wRAR

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