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IPython/Jupyter plans for buster

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  IPython/Jupyter plans for buster Gordon Ball <gordon@chronitis.net> - 2017-06-24 16:20 +0200
    Re: IPython/Jupyter plans for buster Ximin Luo <infinity0@debian.org> - 2017-06-25 22:00 +0200
      Re: IPython/Jupyter plans for buster Gordon Ball <gordon@chronitis.net> - 2017-06-26 15:40 +0200
        Re: IPython/Jupyter plans for buster Ximin Luo <infinity0@debian.org> - 2017-06-27 18:40 +0200
          Re: IPython/Jupyter plans for buster Julien Puydt <julien.puydt@laposte.net> - 2017-06-27 19:00 +0200

#9585 — IPython/Jupyter plans for buster

Hello

We currently have IPython 5.1 in the archive.

Upstream has announced [1][2] IPython/Jupyter 5.x as an LTS branch (36
months support, ending July 2019), and the last version to support
Python 2.7. The first releases of IPython 6 (supporting Python 3 only)
are now available.

There seem to be several possibilities:

 * Stick with 5.x only for this cycle
 * Stick with 5.x as the default for 2 and 3 and provide an alternative
6.x package for python 3
 * Stick with 5.x only for python 2.7 and create a separate ipython 6.x
source package for python 3

This decision probably only needs to be made for the "user visible"
components of jupyter (ipython, ipykernel and their dependencies); the
application/script parts (nbconvert, jupyter-notebook, qtconsole, etc)
can probably be moved to be python 3 only when required.

Gordon

[1]:
https://github.com/jupyter/roadmap/blob/master/accepted/migration-to-python-3-only.md
[2]: http://www.python3statement.org/

postscript: I've just pushed updates to git for several of the jupyter
packages
 * ipython -> 5.4.0
 * jupyter-client -> 5.1.0
 * nbconvert -> 5.2.1 (blocked on pandocfilters >= 1.4)
 * ipykernel -> 4.6.1

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#9587

Hey, it depends on the details.

I think (2) would be the best option, I think it's not worth the effect trying to set up an "alternatives" system, we have enough stuff to do already without needing to test all of this complexity.

One thing we have to watch out for, is if their LTS versions stays on older libraries that are incompatible with the newest versions (cough cough NPM, but also python libs might be affected). Hopefully this would only happen rarely.

Are they dropping python2 support for the core components as well? It would be pretty annoying to have to package two of *everything* just for python2 support. (SageMath definitely needs it.)

X

Gordon Ball:
> Hello
> 
> We currently have IPython 5.1 in the archive.
> 
> Upstream has announced [1][2] IPython/Jupyter 5.x as an LTS branch (36
> months support, ending July 2019), and the last version to support
> Python 2.7. The first releases of IPython 6 (supporting Python 3 only)
> are now available.
> 
> There seem to be several possibilities:
> 
>  * Stick with 5.x only for this cycle
>  * Stick with 5.x as the default for 2 and 3 and provide an alternative
> 6.x package for python 3
>  * Stick with 5.x only for python 2.7 and create a separate ipython 6.x
> source package for python 3
> 
> This decision probably only needs to be made for the "user visible"
> components of jupyter (ipython, ipykernel and their dependencies); the
> application/script parts (nbconvert, jupyter-notebook, qtconsole, etc)
> can probably be moved to be python 3 only when required.
> 
> Gordon
> 
> [1]:
> https://github.com/jupyter/roadmap/blob/master/accepted/migration-to-python-3-only.md
> [2]: http://www.python3statement.org/
> 
> postscript: I've just pushed updates to git for several of the jupyter
> packages
>  * ipython -> 5.4.0
>  * jupyter-client -> 5.1.0
>  * nbconvert -> 5.2.1 (blocked on pandocfilters >= 1.4)
>  * ipykernel -> 4.6.1
> 


-- 
GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git

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#9589

I don't have more information than was in the [1] link below, but my 
reading of it is:

----8<----

All ipython/jupyter components will drop python 2.7 support from version 
6.

For ipython, ipykernel and dependencies ipython-genutils, traitlets the 
current, python-2.7 supporting branch gets extended support until July 
2019 (needed to run user-level python 2.7 code).

For components the user is meant to use as an application rather than an 
importable library (notebook, nbconvert) there will be no extended python 
2 support.

For components which might be useful to other projects (jupyter-core, 
jupyter-client, nbformat) there *might* be extended support of the current 
branch, but it isn't clear.

----8<----

I think we want to follow the same strategy: keep support for running 
python 2 code in interactive sessions and notebooks as long as possible, 
but for other parts like the notebook server which the user is not 
expected to import from, we drop python 2 support when upstream no longer 
provides it.

Which interfaces in jupyter does sagemath use? Is it just a kernel or does 
it import directly from notebook/nbformat/nbconvert, etc?

When you say (2), since I failed to number them originally, I think you 
meant:

     split ipython source package,
     python-ipython stays as version 5.x,
     python3-ipython gets version 6.x from a new source package

(correct?)

Gordon

On Sun, 25 Jun 2017, Ximin Luo wrote:

> Hey, it depends on the details.
>
> I think (2) would be the best option, I think it's not worth the effect trying to set up an "alternatives" system, we have enough stuff to do already without needing to test all of this complexity.
>
> One thing we have to watch out for, is if their LTS versions stays on older libraries that are incompatible with the newest versions (cough cough NPM, but also python libs might be affected). Hopefully this would only happen rarely.
>
> Are they dropping python2 support for the core components as well? It would be pretty annoying to have to package two of *everything* just for python2 support. (SageMath definitely needs it.)
>
> X
>
> Gordon Ball:
>> Hello
>>
>> We currently have IPython 5.1 in the archive.
>>
>> Upstream has announced [1][2] IPython/Jupyter 5.x as an LTS branch (36
>> months support, ending July 2019), and the last version to support
>> Python 2.7. The first releases of IPython 6 (supporting Python 3 only)
>> are now available.
>>
>> There seem to be several possibilities:
>>
>>  * Stick with 5.x only for this cycle
>>  * Stick with 5.x as the default for 2 and 3 and provide an alternative
>> 6.x package for python 3
>>  * Stick with 5.x only for python 2.7 and create a separate ipython 6.x
>> source package for python 3
>>
>> This decision probably only needs to be made for the "user visible"
>> components of jupyter (ipython, ipykernel and their dependencies); the
>> application/script parts (nbconvert, jupyter-notebook, qtconsole, etc)
>> can probably be moved to be python 3 only when required.
>>
>> Gordon
>>
>> [1]:
>> https://github.com/jupyter/roadmap/blob/master/accepted/migration-to-python-3-only.md
>> [2]: http://www.python3statement.org/
>>
>> postscript: I've just pushed updates to git for several of the jupyter
>> packages
>>  * ipython -> 5.4.0
>>  * jupyter-client -> 5.1.0
>>  * nbconvert -> 5.2.1 (blocked on pandocfilters >= 1.4)
>>  * ipykernel -> 4.6.1
>>
>
>
> -- 
> GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
> GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
> https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git
>

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#9592

Gordon Ball:
> I don't have more information than was in the [1] link below, but my reading of it is:
> 
> ----8<----
> 
> All ipython/jupyter components will drop python 2.7 support from version 6.
> 
> For ipython, ipykernel and dependencies ipython-genutils, traitlets the current, python-2.7 supporting branch gets extended support until July 2019 (needed to run user-level python 2.7 code).
> 
> For components the user is meant to use as an application rather than an importable library (notebook, nbconvert) there will be no extended python 2 support.
> 
> For components which might be useful to other projects (jupyter-core, jupyter-client, nbformat) there *might* be extended support of the current branch, but it isn't clear.
> 
> ----8<----
> 
> I think we want to follow the same strategy: keep support for running python 2 code in interactive sessions and notebooks as long as possible, but for other parts like the notebook server which the user is not expected to import from, we drop python 2 support when upstream no longer provides it.
> 
> Which interfaces in jupyter does sagemath use? Is it just a kernel or does it import directly from notebook/nbformat/nbconvert, etc?
> 

SageMath heavily imports from IPython, ipykernel, ipywidgets, but imports from the "notebook" at only two points, as far as I can tell:

src/bin/sage-notebook:        from notebook.notebookapp import main
src/sage/repl/ipython_kernel/install.py:        from notebook.notebookapp import NotebookApp

The second one is a dependency check, that would be easy to patch out in Debian.

The first one would take a bit more work since it's a public-facing interface that "sage -n jupyter" should start up the app. We'd have to patch it so that the Sage python2 process calls an external python3 process, probably.

This assumes the Sage kernel would still work with a python3-only notebook... I certainly hope so, if jupyter upstream are ready to drop the python2 notebook so quickly...

There is also this:

src/sage/repl/ipython_kernel/install.py:from jupyter_core.paths import ENV_JUPYTER_PATH

which would also be easy to patch out in Debian, by hard-coding directly with the actual path.

> When you say (2), since I failed to number them originally, I think you meant:
> 
>     split ipython source package,
>     python-ipython stays as version 5.x,
>     python3-ipython gets version 6.x from a new source package
> 
> (correct?)
> 

Yes, that's what I meant.

X

>>> [..]
>>>
>>> [1]:
>>> https://github.com/jupyter/roadmap/blob/master/accepted/migration-to-python-3-only.md
>>> [2]: http://www.python3statement.org/
>>>

-- 
GPG: ed25519/56034877E1F87C35
GPG: rsa4096/1318EFAC5FBBDBCE
https://github.com/infinity0/pubkeys.git

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#9593

Hi,

Le 27/06/2017 à 18:20, Ximin Luo a écrit :

> This assumes the Sage kernel would still work with a python3-only notebook... I certainly hope so, if jupyter upstream are ready to drop the python2 notebook so quickly...

there's a good chance sagemath will end up using Python 3 too at some
not-too-remote moment...

Snark on #debian-python

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