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Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands)

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On Friday, May 18, 2018 11:31:37 AM Matthias Klose wrote:
> On 18.05.2018 05:19, Piotr Ożarowski wrote:
> > [Matthias Klose, 2018-05-17]
> > 
> >> PEP 394 [1] saw an update in April 2018 [2], the diffs at [3].
> >> 
> >> The most important change from my point of view is
> >> 
> >> -* It is suggested that even distribution-specific packages follow the
> >> -  ``python2``/``python3`` convention, even in code that is not intended
> >> to
> >> +* It is strongly encouraged that distribution-specific packages use
> >> ``python2`` +  or ``python3`` rather than ``python``, even in code that
> >> is not intended to>> 
> >>    operate on other distributions.
> > 
> > FTR: the day this PEP asks us to point /usr/bin/python to python3 is the
> > day I start ignoring it, to say the least.
> > 
> >> I don't think there is enough time to replace all python shebangs to
> >> python2 in time for the buster release, however there is no harm in
> >> starting this process now.
> > 
> > too late, this process has already started (since dh_python2 v3.20180313)
> > ;-P> 
> >> But I'd like to get this done for buster+1, in the case we still need to
> >> ship a Python2/2.7, so that buster+1 doesn't ship with a python command,
> >> but maybe with a python2 command.
> > 
> > we already ship /usr/bin/python2. Removing /usr/bin/python makes sense
> > as well (administrators can symlink it to whatever they want once it's
> > gone from Debian), but...
> > 
> >> The first step is to create a set of python2* packages in
> >> python-defaults, with contain all the python2* symlinks, and having the
> >> python* packages depend on those python2 packages.  This change itself
> >> is a no-op and shouldn't affect anything.
> >> 
> >> As a second step change the dh_python2 (in python-defaults), and
> >> dh-python to generate dependencies on python2 instead of python, and
> >> replacing the shebang from python to python2.
> >> 
> >> This should cover the majority of packages to replace dependencies on
> >> python with dependencies on python2.  There are packages which don't
> >> check for python2, so these probably need adjustments.  But again, the
> >> goal for buster+1 is to ship as few Python2 dependent packages as
> >> possible, if any.
> > 
> > this is useless. What will we gain by renaming packages?
> 
> who said, that we should rename packages? The only packages being dropped
> are the python defaults packages.
> 
> > I refuse to do that work!
> 
> There is no work in renaming the packages. It's about the dependency
> generation and the shebang.
> 
> > The only message it sends is that we don't think /usr/bin/python or
> > python package is Python 2.7 anymore and that's definitely not the
> > message I want to send.
> 
> No, that's not what the PEP says.

Upstream is free to follow Arch in their insanity (even if more slowly) and 
suggest pointing /usr/bin/python at a python3 version is a reasonable thing to 
do (eventually).  It's not (and they even explain why in the PEP).  Debian 
doesn't have to follow.  We can have higher standards.

I don't see any reason to be able to "apt install python2" instead of "apt 
install python".  I think it's perfectly fine the way it is now where the same 
package provides /usr/bin/oython and /usr/bin/python2.  If you exclude 
eventually pointint /usr/bin/python at a python3 version (and we should), then 
there's no value in doing it.

I agree with Piotr.  I don't think we need to "create a set of python2* 
packages".

Scott K

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Thread

Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org> - 2018-05-17 21:00 +0200
  Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2018-05-18 11:30 +0200
    Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org> - 2018-05-18 17:40 +0200
      Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2018-05-18 18:20 +0200
        Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org> - 2018-05-18 19:40 +0200
          Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2018-05-18 21:20 +0200
      Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2018-05-18 19:10 +0200
        Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org> - 2018-05-18 19:20 +0200
          Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2018-05-18 19:30 +0200
            Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org> - 2018-05-18 19:40 +0200
              Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Stuart Prescott <stuart@debian.org> - 2018-05-19 07:30 +0200
                Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org> - 2018-06-08 19:10 +0200
                Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2018-06-10 14:00 +0200
                Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org> - 2018-09-25 21:40 +0200
                Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2018-09-25 23:20 +0200
  Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2018-05-20 23:50 +0200
    Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2018-05-21 01:40 +0200
      Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2018-05-22 09:10 +0200
    Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2018-05-22 21:30 +0200
      Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2018-05-23 02:10 +0200
  Re: Updated PEP 394 (python and python2 commands) Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2018-05-22 21:00 +0200

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