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Renaming the Debian Project

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  Renaming the Debian Project benjamin barber <starworks5@gmail.com> - 2015-12-30 23:10 +0100
    Re: Renaming the Debian Project Ben Finney <ben+debian@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-12-30 23:20 +0100
    Re: Renaming the Debian Project Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.pro> - 2015-12-30 23:20 +0100
    Re: Renaming the Debian Project Dimitri John Ledkov <dimitri.ledkov@surgut.co.uk> - 2015-12-30 23:50 +0100
      Re: Renaming the Debian Project Ben Finney <ben+debian@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-12-31 00:10 +0100
      Re: Renaming the Debian Project Hans <hans.ullrich@loop.de> - 2015-12-31 00:30 +0100
    Re: Renaming the Debian Project "Fuller, Lee" <lee.fuller@leesys.co.uk> - 2015-12-31 00:00 +0100
    Re: Renaming the Debian Project larocca@larocca.io - 2015-12-31 01:10 +0100
    Re: Renaming the Debian Project Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2015-12-31 02:10 +0100
    Re: Renaming the Debian Project Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2015-12-31 05:00 +0100
      Re: Renaming the Debian Project Ben Finney <ben+debian@benfinney.id.au> - 2015-12-31 05:20 +0100
      Re: Renaming the Debian Project Daniel Pocock <daniel@pocock.pro> - 2015-12-31 08:50 +0100
    Re: Renaming the Debian Project Jeff Garra <jgarra@aglilly.com> - 2015-12-31 05:10 +0100
      RE: Renaming the Debian Project Manuel <manchax@gmail.com> - 2015-12-31 05:40 +0100
    Re: Renaming the Debian Project keito <audioactivist@gmail.com> - 2015-12-31 13:40 +0100
    Re: Renaming the Debian Project Ehud Gavron <gavron@wetwork.net> - 2016-01-01 07:30 +0100
    Re: Renaming the Debian Project gaffa <gaffa@confuseacat.dk> - 2016-01-02 19:40 +0100

#69438 — Renaming the Debian Project

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It's unfortunate that Debian is named after Debra and Ian, because having
the project named after a white supremacist, who used his ex-wifes name as
an trophy. Being that the current year is almost 2016 and is 20 years after
Debian started, we should look to the future and not the past. We shouldn't
tolerate the project being named after a person who uses the N word, or
marginalizes women who've been sexually assaulted. Instead I think we ought
to rename the project "Euphemia", which means "good speech" and represents
our code of conduct, as well as being the name of Euphemia Lofton Haynes
the first African American woman who earned a math PHD.

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#69440

benjamin barber <starworks5@gmail.com> writes:

> It's unfortunate that Debian is named after Debra and Ian

Nevertheless, that's the reason for the name: a historical fact that
will not change.

> because having the project named after a white supremacist, who used
> his ex-wifes name as an trophy.

You need to take your unsubstantiated hate elsewhere, and stop poisoning
this community.

-- 
 \                   己所不欲、勿施于人。 (What is undesirable to you, |
  `\                                             do not do to others.) |
_o__)                            —孔夫子 Confucius (551 BCE – 479 BCE) |
Ben Finney

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#69441

On 30/12/15 23:03, benjamin barber wrote:
> It's unfortunate that Debian is named after Debra and Ian, because
> having the project named after a white supremacist, who used his
> ex-wifes name as an trophy. Being that the current year is almost 2016
> and is 20 years after Debian started, we should look to the future and
> not the past. We shouldn't tolerate the project being named after a
> person who uses the N word, or marginalizes women who've been sexually
> assaulted. Instead I think we ought to rename the project "Euphemia",
> which means "good speech" and represents our code of conduct, as well as
> being the name of Euphemia Lofton Haynes the first African American
> woman who earned a math PHD.


a) leave out debian-devel, maybe continue on debian-project alone?

b) is Debra's opinion documented anywhere?

c) do you have verifiable references for the other allegations you are
making about the project founder?  It is very inappropriate to post
things like that without citing some solid evidence, doing so only
undermines your own credibility.

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#69442

Hello,

Your email is highly insensitive due to impeccable timing.

At the present moment Debian project mourns the passing of Ian
Murdock. https://bits.debian.org/2015/12/mourning-ian-murdock.html

A lot of Debian Developers and the wider Debian community have great
respect for the amazing things that happened, thanks to Ian starting
the Debian project.

Furthermore, his family has made an explicit call for privacy during
this difficult time for them, and we shall respect that. The email you
have sent violates that.

In Russian culture, one says good things about those who have passed
away, and remains silent about everything else.

-- 
Regards,

Dimitri.

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#69444

Dimitri John Ledkov <dimitri.ledkov@surgut.co.uk> writes:

> Your email is highly insensitive due to impeccable timing.

Given the complete lack of citation for any of the outlandish claims, I
suspect the timing and insensitivity of the original post was entirely
intentional.

-- 
 \      “Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest do not |
  `\     happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these |
_o__)                          defects.” —Mark Twain, _A Horse's Tale_ |
Ben Finney

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#69446

Am Mittwoch, 30. Dezember 2015, 22:31:14 schrieb Dimitri John Ledkov:
> Hello,
> 
> Your email is highly insensitive due to impeccable timing.
> 
Hi all, 

I think (and this is honest), debian should keep its name. It honours the 
founders for theire great idea and theire vision. 

Doing so, they will never be forgotton.

Sorry, but this is my opinion.

Best regards and thank you for this project.

Hans 

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#69443

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On 2015-12-30 22:03, benjamin barber wrote: 

> It's unfortunate that Debian is named after Debra and Ian, because having the project named after a white supremacist, who used his ex-wifes name as an trophy. Being that the current year is almost 2016 and is 20 years after Debian started, we should look to the future and not the past. We shouldn't tolerate the project being named after a person who uses the N word, or marginalizes women who've been sexually assaulted. Instead I think we ought to rename the project "Euphemia", which means "good speech" and represents our code of conduct, as well as being the name of Euphemia Lofton Haynes the first African American woman who earned a math PHD.

This post is grossly inappropriate. Consider Ian's family before you
post such inaccurate, incoherently worded nonsense. 

-- 
-- LEE FULLER
 

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#69447

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 02:03:40PM -0800, benjamin barber wrote:
> It's unfortunate that Debian is named after Debra and Ian, because having
> the project named after a white supremacist, who used his ex-wifes name as
> an trophy. Being that the current year is almost 2016 and is 20 years after
> Debian started, we should look to the future and not the past. We shouldn't
> tolerate the project being named after a person who uses the N word, or
> marginalizes women who've been sexually assaulted. Instead I think we ought
> to rename the project "Euphemia", which means "good speech" and represents
> our code of conduct, as well as being the name of Euphemia Lofton Haynes
> the first African American woman who earned a math PHD.

The neo-tribalist, pseudo-leftist, anti-materialist form of ideology that 
took shape during the famed '80s Culture Wars--"identity politics"--seems to 
have had a slight resurgence in the past few years. So much for those who 
take it up.

"First as tragedy, then as farce."

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#69449

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 02:03:40PM -0800, benjamin barber wrote:
> It's unfortunate that Debian is named after Debra and Ian, because having the
> project named after a white supremacist, who used his ex-wifes name as an
> trophy. Being that the current year is almost 2016 and is 20 years after Debian
> started, we should look to the future and not the past. We shouldn't tolerate
> the project being named after a person who uses the N word, or marginalizes
> women who've been sexually assaulted. Instead I think we ought to rename the
> project "Euphemia", which means "good speech" and represents our code of
> conduct, as well as being the name of Euphemia Lofton Haynes the first African
> American woman who earned a math PHD.

Please, do *not* feed this troll. Ian deserves better.

-- 
It is easy to love a country that is famous for chocolate and beer

  -- Barack Obama, speaking in Brussels, Belgium, 2014-03-26

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#69450

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On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 02:03:40PM -0800, benjamin barber wrote:
> It's unfortunate that Debian is named after Debra and Ian, because having
> the project named after a white supremacist, who used his ex-wifes name as
> an trophy.

I agree in whole with the responses of my fellow developers Dimitri and
Russ.  I also believe, because the Internet never forgets, that this
libelous accusation needs to be addressed directly.

In the time leading up to Ian's death, he posted on his now-deleted twitter
account about an altercation with police.  He described being the victim of
police brutality, and expressed the desire that his story be widely known -
in the hopes that, where stories of police brutality (up to and including
murder) of racial minorities in the United States have failed to lead to the
systemic reforms that are needed, perhaps a story of a white, affluent,
educated, middle-aged man being a victim of the same systems might tip the
scale.

In the course of expressing these views on twitter, Ian used a racial
epithet.

It appears to be this one word that has led to him being branded here as a
"white supremacist".

It is not racism to call attention to racial bias inherent in systems of
unequal power.

It is not white supremacy to use a taboo word for its shock value when
discussing violations of civil rights that should be shocking to all,
regardless of the color of the victim.

One can certainly disagree with his methods, but there is no cause for
accusing Ian of "white supremacy" when all the evidence suggests he desired
to see civil rights abuses corrected for the good of all.  His memory
deserves better than this.

-- 
Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer                                    http://www.debian.org/
slangasek@ubuntu.com                                     vorlon@debian.org

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#69452

Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> writes:

> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 02:03:40PM -0800, benjamin barber wrote:
> > It's unfortunate that Debian is named after Debra and Ian, because having
> > the project named after a white supremacist, who used his ex-wifes name as
> > an trophy.
>
> I agree in whole with the responses of my fellow developers Dimitri and
> Russ.  I also believe, because the Internet never forgets, that this
> libelous accusation needs to be addressed directly.

Thanks for responding to libel with information.

> In the time leading up to Ian's death, he posted on his now-deleted
> twitter account about an altercation with police.

To be clear, there is reasonable doubt those posts were made by him
<URL:http://news.softpedia.com/news/founder-of-debian-threatens-suicide-on-twitter-and-police-abuse-allegedly-498205.shtml>,
since they aren't consonant with his previous postings, and are quite
close to the time of his death.

If, as seems plausible, it turns out those posts were not made by Ian
Murdock, the libelous accusations that started this thread will lack all
substance in fact.

-- 
 \          “A hundred times every day I remind myself that […] I must |
  `\       exert myself in order to give in the same measure as I have |
_o__)                received and am still receiving” —Albert Einstein |
Ben Finney

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#69454

On 31/12/15 04:22, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 02:03:40PM -0800, benjamin barber wrote:
>> It's unfortunate that Debian is named after Debra and Ian,
>> because having the project named after a white supremacist, who
>> used his ex-wifes name as an trophy.
> 
> I agree in whole with the responses of my fellow developers Dimitri
> and Russ.  I also believe, because the Internet never forgets, that
> this libelous accusation needs to be addressed directly.
> 
> In the time leading up to Ian's death, he posted on his now-deleted
> twitter account about an altercation with police.  He described
> being the victim of police brutality, and expressed the desire that
> his story be widely known - in the hopes that, where stories of
> police brutality (up to and including murder) of racial minorities
> in the United States have failed to lead to the systemic reforms
> that are needed, perhaps a story of a white, affluent, educated,
> middle-aged man being a victim of the same systems might tip the 
> scale.
> 
> In the course of expressing these views on twitter, Ian used a
> racial epithet.
> 

In fact, it has not been verified that those Tweets were from Ian
himself.  It can only be said that there were Tweets and they appear
to originate from Ian's Twitter ID.

Had somebody hacked his account?

Had somebody stolen his mobile phone and hacked the screen unlock?
Has the phone been found yet?

Has somebody found an arbitrary way to send Tweets with forged identities?

Did Ian rename or close his Twitter account at some point and then
somebody else created a new Twitter account using the same name?

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#69451

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"Being that the current year is almost 2016 and is 20 years after Debian
started"

Yes, let's rename a project because of an arbitrary date. That makes
perfect sense. No it doesn't, that is absurd.

"because having the project named after a white supremacist"

Those are some pretty serious accusations you are making. You have any
proof to back up those claims? Further, your tactics of shaming someone
based on their beliefs, while potentially gross beliefs, is still pretty
insulting and petty.

I wish the name to stay as-is. If people want to create a project with a
different name they are welcome to fork, at the core that is the essence of
Debian and its licenses.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 2:03 PM, benjamin barber <starworks5@gmail.com>
wrote:

> It's unfortunate that Debian is named after Debra and Ian, because having
> the project named after a white supremacist, who used his ex-wifes name as
> an trophy. Being that the current year is almost 2016 and is 20 years after
> Debian started, we should look to the future and not the past. We shouldn't
> tolerate the project being named after a person who uses the N word, or
> marginalizes women who've been sexually assaulted. Instead I think we ought
> to rename the project "Euphemia", which means "good speech" and represents
> our code of conduct, as well as being the name of Euphemia Lofton Haynes
> the first African American woman who earned a math PHD.
>

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#69453

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IMHO: Two words for those proposing it: attention whores


From: Jeff Garra
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 10:00 PM
To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Cc: debian-project@lists.debian.org; debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Renaming the Debian Project

"Being that the current year is almost 2016 and is 20 years after Debian started"

Yes, let's rename a project because of an arbitrary date. That makes perfect sense. No it doesn't, that is absurd.

"because having the project named after a white supremacist"

Those are some pretty serious accusations you are making. You have any proof to back up those claims? Further, your tactics of shaming someone based on their beliefs, while potentially gross beliefs, is still pretty insulting and petty.

I wish the name to stay as-is. If people want to create a project with a different name they are welcome to fork, at the core that is the essence of Debian and its licenses.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 2:03 PM, benjamin barber <starworks5@gmail.com> wrote:
It's unfortunate that Debian is named after Debra and Ian, because having the project named after a white supremacist, who used his ex-wifes name as an trophy. Being that the current year is almost 2016 and is 20 years after Debian started, we should look to the future and not the past. We shouldn't tolerate the project being named after a person who uses the N word, or marginalizes women who've been sexually assaulted. Instead I think we ought to rename the project "Euphemia", which means "good speech" and represents our code of conduct, as well as being the name of Euphemia Lofton Haynes the first African American woman who earned a math PHD.

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#69456

I believe Debian should retain its name, for the following reasons...


      * Debian is a well known brand. 
      * Name changes are disruptive. Lot's of work would be involved in
        updating documentation and branding.
      * It would lead to confusion for users trying to search for help
        with a problem (do they search for Debian or the replacement
        name?).  This would fragment existing documentation and support,
        which is a high price to pay.
      * Ian's (now deleted) tweets, although inappropriate, were not
        intended to be racist, or at least that's how I see it.  It's
        all a matter of context.  I think in this situation we can
        clearly see his tweets and outgoing manner are entirely out of
        character, when compared with previous tweets on the account.
        There are all sorts of factors to weigh in here, stress, mental
        health issues, possible head injuries, etc. It's entirely
        inappropriate to suggest a name change at this point in time,
        when there is grief enough to contend with.
      * Ian Murdoch has dedicated much of his life to the furthering of
        open source software.  It would be a shame to steal his legacy
        away from him, after his untimely and unfortunate death.

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#69473

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I love it that trolls have the same freedom of speech to spew
their crap that I have to defend against it.

I mourn Ian's loss.  I respect his right to choose his words.
I VOW to SUPPORT the DEBIAN concept, distribution, and works.

There's no racism here.  Nor is there any room for trolls.

FUCK political correctness.

Ehud
Tucson AZ US

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#69504

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You are either playing an artificial character or you are simply not very good
at reading people and interpreting text.

I hope you find more constructive things to do in the future. I hope you find
happiness and love.

Thank you Ian, for initiating this great community. Your legacy will not be
forgotten.

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