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Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure

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  Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Dmitry Smirnov <onlyjob@debian.org> - 2015-08-16 05:50 +0200
    Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2015-08-16 07:00 +0200
      Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Dmitry Smirnov <onlyjob@debian.org> - 2015-08-16 12:10 +0200
      Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure md@Linux.IT (Marco d'Itri) - 2015-08-16 12:20 +0200
    Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Michael Meskes <meskes@debian.org> - 2015-08-16 09:50 +0200
      Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Martin Zobel-Helas <zobel@debian.org> - 2015-08-16 11:20 +0200
        Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Martin Zobel-Helas <zobel@debian.org> - 2015-08-16 17:50 +0200
      Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Dmitry Smirnov <onlyjob@debian.org> - 2015-08-16 12:10 +0200
        Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Michael Meskes <michael@fam-meskes.de> - 2015-08-16 13:40 +0200
          Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure "Joshua R. Poulson" <jrp@pun.org> - 2015-08-16 13:50 +0200
            Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Dmitry Smirnov <onlyjob@debian.org> - 2015-08-16 14:10 +0200
            Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Marcin Kulisz <debian@kulisz.net> - 2015-08-18 00:20 +0200
    Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2015-08-16 10:50 +0200
      Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Dmitry Smirnov <onlyjob@debian.org> - 2015-08-16 12:10 +0200
        Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Michael Meskes <meskes@debian.org> - 2015-08-16 13:30 +0200
          Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Bernd Zeimetz <bernd@bzed.de> - 2015-08-22 23:00 +0200
      Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org> - 2015-08-16 15:30 +0200
      Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Hideki Yamane <henrich@iijmio-mail.jp> - 2015-08-16 22:30 +0200
        Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2015-08-22 22:00 +0200
          Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.or.jp> - 2015-10-16 09:30 +0200
            Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure "Joshua R. Poulson" <jrp@pun.org> - 2015-10-16 15:10 +0200
            Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> - 2015-10-17 14:20 +0200
              Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2015-10-17 20:00 +0200
                Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Hideki Yamane <henrich@debian.or.jp> - 2015-10-18 05:40 +0200
                  Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2015-11-22 21:50 +0100
                    Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure "Adam D. Barratt" <adam@adam-barratt.org.uk> - 2015-11-22 22:40 +0100
                      Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2015-11-22 23:00 +0100
                        Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure "Adam D. Barratt" <adam@adam-barratt.org.uk> - 2015-11-23 21:10 +0100
                          Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure "Joshua R. Poulson" <jrp@pun.org> - 2015-11-23 21:50 +0100
                            Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure "Adam D. Barratt" <adam@adam-barratt.org.uk> - 2015-11-23 22:00 +0100
                              Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure "Joshua R. Poulson" <jrp@pun.org> - 2015-11-23 22:20 +0100
                                Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure "Adam D. Barratt" <adam@adam-barratt.org.uk> - 2015-11-23 22:20 +0100
    Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@gwolf.org> - 2015-08-17 21:10 +0200
      RE: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Jose Miguel Parrella Romero <bureado@debian.org> - 2015-08-17 23:10 +0200
    Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure "Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars)" <fourdollars@gmail.com> - 2015-12-04 09:30 +0100
      Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Martin Zobel-Helas <martin.zobel-helas@credativ.de> - 2015-12-04 18:50 +0100
    Re: Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure Ritesh Raj Sarraf <rrs@debian.org> - 2015-12-04 13:50 +0100

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#67013 — Debian is not welcome on Microsoft Azure

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Hi everyone,

I'm struggling to convince a client of mine to use Debian. They already had 
enough troubles with RHEL/CentOS to they are open to the idea -- that's a 
good thing. The bad thing is that they want to use Microsoft Azure (please 
don't ask me why people in the right mind would ever consider using 
proprietary cloud from one of the most unethical companies ever known in the 
IT industry).

I found it very disappointing that I had to defend Debian against Ubuntu  
which is stealing our audience by somehow arranging more favourable hosting 
conditions on Azure. I'm not talking about availability of OS images. 
According to "Information for Non-Endorsed Distributions" [1] 

    "The Azure platform SLA applies to virtual machines running the Linux OS
     only when one of the endorsed distributions [2] is used".

So naturally my client is concerned that by choosing Debian they won't have 
benefits of SLA like they would have if they choose Ubuntu because the latter 
is "endorsed".

I'm not sure what can be done about this. Personally I'm reluctant to 
approach Microsoft (I believe DPL or representative of debian-cloud team may 
be a better person to do that) and I don't know how to challenge unfair 
endorsement when some parties already formed cartel to suit their 
interests...

Maybe someone could draft a press release to draw attention to the problem, 
if we should be concerned?

[1]: https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/documentation/articles/virtual-machines-linux-create-upload-vhd-generic/

[2]: https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/documentation/articles/virtual-machines-linux-endorsed-distributions/

-- 
Cheers,
 Dmitry Smirnov.

---

It is no use saying, 'We are doing our best.' You have got to succeed
in doing what is necessary.
        -- Winston Churchill

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#67014

Dmitry Smirnov <onlyjob@debian.org> writes:

> I found it very disappointing that I had to defend Debian against Ubuntu  
> which is stealing our audience by somehow arranging more favourable hosting 
> conditions on Azure. I'm not talking about availability of OS images. 
> According to "Information for Non-Endorsed Distributions" [1] 

>     "The Azure platform SLA applies to virtual machines running the Linux OS
>      only when one of the endorsed distributions [2] is used".

> So naturally my client is concerned that by choosing Debian they won't have 
> benefits of SLA like they would have if they choose Ubuntu because the latter 
> is "endorsed".

I suspect you're attributing to malice what's probably due to other
causes.  My bet is that their "endorsed" list is the stuff that either
they've actually tested or that their "partners" are testing in some
formal way, and they're not going to test every Linux distribution, and
they don't guarantee that the ones they haven't tested will work.

This is sadly very typical of any sort of vendor support.  I see this all
the time for complex software stacks with support contracts (you can only
ask them for support if you run it all on some OS that they "support") or
for anything that requires hardware support or drivers.  It's basically
universal in the world of proprietary software.

It's possible, I suppose, that money has changed hands to get Microsoft to
endorse Ubuntu, but I think it's equally likely that they just looked at
the "enterprise" Linux space to see what the most popular distributions
commercial are, and then some other companies reached out to them to see
what was involved in getting on the list.

Note that one thing in common with all of the supported distributions is
that there is a company behind it.  (CentOS is on there only because
OpenLogic put themselves on the hook for it.)  Debian is notoriously hard
for companies to actually contact because we don't actually exist as a
formal organization, and there isn't a strategic partnerships coordinator
who is calling their counterpart at Microsoft and chatting about things
like this.  I suspect all of those companies have at least one employee
whose job it is to set up things like this.  It's possible we're not there
just because we haven't asked in that sort of a way, or don't sufficiently
exist to be able to ask in the way that they would expect.

> Maybe someone could draft a press release to draw attention to the
> problem, if we should be concerned?

I think it would be tricky to draft a press release that didn't make us
sound faintly silly.  They don't list Arch or Gentoo or quite a few other
distributions either; it's not like they're singling out Debian in
particular.  They don't list any community-maintained distributions, only
ones with companies behind them.

This sort of limited support list (however constructed, possibly via
business deals with money involved) is pretty much universal in the
industry.  If, like me, you're not a big fan of capitalism in general,
you're probably not a big fan of this manifestation of it, but it's
certainly not illegal and, by capitalism rules, not unethical.

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org)               <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

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#67021

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On Saturday 15 August 2015 21:52:19 Russ Allbery wrote:
> It's possible, I suppose, that money has changed hands to get Microsoft to
> endorse Ubuntu, but I think it's equally likely that they just looked at
> the "enterprise" Linux space to see what the most popular distributions
> commercial are, and then some other companies reached out to them to see
> what was involved in getting on the list.

You are right, either could be the case. I believe it would be unfortunate if 
we compete for privileged hosting terms with other distros...


> Note that one thing in common with all of the supported distributions is
> that there is a company behind it.  (CentOS is on there only because
> OpenLogic put themselves on the hook for it.)

I thought CentOS is there because there is no effort to support it since (as 
RHEL derivative) CentOS promises binary compatibility with RHEL...


> Debian is notoriously hard
> for companies to actually contact because we don't actually exist as a
> formal organization, and there isn't a strategic partnerships coordinator
> who is calling their counterpart at Microsoft and chatting about things
> like this.  I suspect all of those companies have at least one employee
> whose job it is to set up things like this.  It's possible we're not there
> just because we haven't asked in that sort of a way, or don't sufficiently
> exist to be able to ask in the way that they would expect.

Right. If one company is enough to take responsibility for liaison with one 
cloud provider then hopefully one of our consultants [1] could be of help...

[1]: https://www.debian.org/consultants/


> They don't list Arch or Gentoo or quite a few other
> distributions either; it's not like they're singling out Debian in
> particular.  They don't list any community-maintained distributions, only
> ones with companies behind them.

It is true but neither size of the audience of Arch and Gentoo combined nor 
importance of those projects come close to our exposure. To me it is more 
like as if they overlooked RHEL but included CentOS...

Intentionally or not, it is harmful when our own derivative is stepping on 
our toes like this...

 
> This sort of limited support list (however constructed, possibly via
> business deals with money involved) is pretty much universal in the
> industry.

Sigh... :(


> If, like me, you're not a big fan of capitalism in general,
> you're probably not a big fan of this manifestation of it, but it's
> certainly not illegal and, by capitalism rules, not unethical.

I recognise lack of ethics in absence of vendor-neutrality (when they try to 
influence what should be running in rented VMs) and in designing conditions 
allowing them to avoid meeting their own SLA under some circumstances...

-- 
Regards,
 Dmitry Smirnov.

---

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

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#67024

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On Aug 16, Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> wrote:

> This is sadly very typical of any sort of vendor support.  I see this all
> the time for complex software stacks with support contracts (you can only
> ask them for support if you run it all on some OS that they "support") or
> for anything that requires hardware support or drivers.  It's basically
Indeed. Try to use Debian with fibre channel hardware...

-- 
ciao,
Marco

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#67016

> Maybe someone could draft a press release to draw attention to the problem, 
> if we should be concerned?

Or maybe we should just wait a little bit longer until the problem is
fixed. As it happens work is already underway as you can see here:
http://www.credativ.de/blog/debian-images-f%C3%BCr-microsoft-azure

Sorry, only in German, English text is forthcoming.

Also, for those of you at Debconf, feel free to talk to credativ or
Microsoft people at the conference if you want to learn more. There
should be some event as well, but since I'm not yet on-site I cannot
tell when and where. Maybe somebody who know could chime in.

Michael
-- 
Michael Meskes
Michael at Fam-Meskes dot De, Michael at Meskes dot (De|Com|Net|Org)
Meskes at (Debian|Postgresql) dot Org
Jabber: michael.meskes at gmail dot com
VfL Borussia! Força Barça! Go SF 49ers! Use Debian GNU/Linux, PostgreSQL

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#67019

Hi, 

On Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 09:35:37 +0200, Michael Meskes wrote:
> > Maybe someone could draft a press release to draw attention to the problem, 
> > if we should be concerned?
> 
> Or maybe we should just wait a little bit longer until the problem is
> fixed. As it happens work is already underway as you can see here:
> http://www.credativ.de/blog/debian-images-f%C3%BCr-microsoft-azure
> 
> Sorry, only in German, English text is forthcoming.
> 
> Also, for those of you at Debconf, feel free to talk to credativ or
> Microsoft people at the conference if you want to learn more. There
> should be some event as well, but since I'm not yet on-site I cannot
> tell when and where. Maybe somebody who know could chime in.
> 

I intend to do a short live demo about the work credativ has done so
far. No date and place settled yet, though.

Cheers,
Martin
-- 
 Martin Zobel-Helas <zobel@debian.org>    Debian System Administrator
 Debian & GNU/Linux Developer                       Debian Listmaster
 http://about.me/zobel                               Debian Webmaster
 GPG Fingerprint:  6B18 5642 8E41 EC89 3D5D  BDBB 53B1 AC6D B11B 627B 

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#67037

Hi, 

On Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 11:18:55 +0200, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> On Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 09:35:37 +0200, Michael Meskes wrote:
> > > Maybe someone could draft a press release to draw attention to the problem, 
> > > if we should be concerned?
> > 
> > Or maybe we should just wait a little bit longer until the problem is
> > fixed. As it happens work is already underway as you can see here:
> > http://www.credativ.de/blog/debian-images-f%C3%BCr-microsoft-azure
> > 
> > Sorry, only in German, English text is forthcoming.
> > 
> > Also, for those of you at Debconf, feel free to talk to credativ or
> > Microsoft people at the conference if you want to learn more. There
> > should be some event as well, but since I'm not yet on-site I cannot
> > tell when and where. Maybe somebody who know could chime in.
> > 
> 
> I intend to do a short live demo about the work credativ has done so
> far. No date and place settled yet, though.

There will be a Q&A session in room Vienna (Wien) tomorrow at 4 pm.

https://summit.debconf.org/debconf15/meeting/365/debian-on-microsoft-azure-qa/


Cheers,
Martin

-- 
 Martin Zobel-Helas <zobel@debian.org>    Debian System Administrator
 Debian & GNU/Linux Developer                       Debian Listmaster
 http://about.me/zobel                               Debian Webmaster
 GPG Fingerprint:  6B18 5642 8E41 EC89 3D5D  BDBB 53B1 AC6D B11B 627B 

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#67023

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On Sunday 16 August 2015 09:35:37 Michael Meskes wrote:
> Or maybe we should just wait a little bit longer until the problem is
> fixed. As it happens work is already underway as you can see here:
> http://www.credativ.de/blog/debian-images-f%C3%BCr-microsoft-azure
 
I hope Debian have some future on Azure however blog mention only native 
Debian images (that shouldn't be too hard to prepare anyway) but not SLA...

There are some Wheezy (but not Jessie) images mentioned on

    https://wiki.debian.org/Cloud/WindowsAzureImage

-- 
Best wishes,
 Dmitry Smirnov.

---

Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking
our potential.
        -- Winston Churchill

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#67029

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> I hope Debian have some future on Azure however blog mention only native 
> Debian images (that shouldn't be too hard to prepare anyway) but not SLA...

I'm pretty sure there'll be some SLA offering.

Michael

-- 
Michael Meskes
Michael at Fam-Meskes dot De, Michael at Meskes dot (De|Com|Net|Org)
Meskes at (Debian|Postgresql) dot Org
Jabber: michael.meskes at gmail dot com
VfL Borussia! Força Barça! Go SF 49ers! Use Debian GNU/Linux, PostgreSQL

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#67030

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Specifically, due to the efforts of Credativ, Debian will soon become an
"endorsed" distribution available from the image gallery on Azure. There
will be a DebConf 15 Q&A tomorrow on this topic. You can also chat us up at
DebConf this week.

--jrp
Linux Integration Services Program Manager, Open Source Technology Center,
Microsoft

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#67031

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On Sunday 16 August 2015 04:45:46 Joshua R. Poulson wrote:
> Specifically, due to the efforts of Credativ, Debian will soon become an
> "endorsed" distribution available from the image gallery on Azure.

This will be a good news. I'm looking forward to see it happen.
Thank you, Joshua.

-- 
Regards,
 Dmitry Smirnov.

---

Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.
        -- H. L. Mencken

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#67083

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On 2015-08-16 04:45:46, Joshua R. Poulson wrote:
> Specifically, due to the efforts of Credativ, Debian will soon become an
> "endorsed" distribution available from the image gallery on Azure. There will
> be a DebConf 15 Q&A tomorrow on this topic. You can also chat us up at DebConf
> this week.

Hi guys,

we had kinda Q&A in relation to this topic and the conclusion is that we will
have Debian on Azure and on other 'clouds', but ...

1. It's not going to be called 'Official Debian' but something similar, probably
  something like 'Official Debian Image for Azure' (or whatever cloud provider
  you want to have in this place)
2. To achieve 1 we need to specify set of tests which image will have to pass
  to be called as the above.
3. Cloud provider if want to certify our image probably (according to MS guys
  for sure) will want to run some test on their own but for us (Debian) to accept
  that and to give Debian name to it, they will be obliged to publish those
  tests (ideally as deb packages) for public/community scrutiny and eventual
  testing if one wish to do so.

So now we're in the point when we have to specify what tests should run, so we as
a Debian could rubber stamp it as Debian 'certified'.

If you have idea how those tests should (more/less) looks like and what should
we test to have standardised test suite for images please add them into wiki:
https://wiki.debian.org/Testing%20Debian%20Cloud%20Images and ideally write
some code for doing so. (if repo for tests will be needed pls let us know on
debian-cloud@lists.debian.org so we will organize it)
-- 

|_|0|_|                                          |
|_|_|0|         "Heghlu'Meh QaQ jajVam"          |
|0|0|0|         -------- kuLa ---------          |

gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 0x58C338B3
3DF1 A4DF C732 4688 38BC F121 6869 30DD  58C3 38B3

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#67018

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On Sun, 2015-08-16 at 13:41 +1000, Dmitry Smirnov wrote:
[...]
> I found it very disappointing that I had to defend Debian against Ubuntu  
> which is stealing our audience by somehow arranging more favourable hosting 
> conditions on Azure. I'm not talking about availability of OS images. 
> According to "Information for Non-Endorsed Distributions" [1] 
> 
>     "The Azure platform SLA applies to virtual machines running the Linux OS
>      only when one of the endorsed distributions [2] is used".
> 
> So naturally my client is concerned that by choosing Debian they won't have 
> benefits of SLA like they would have if they choose Ubuntu because the latter 
> is "endorsed".
[...]

No stable release of Debian includes the Hyper-V guest agents, which I
believe are strongly recommended.

They are now packaged in unstable (hyperv-daemons built from linux
-tools source), and could possible be backported to jessie if they are
that important.  However, I think some more work is needed to integrate
them properly.

Ben.

-- 
Ben Hutchings
[W]e found...that it wasn't as easy to get programs right as we had thought.
... I realized that a large part of my life from then on was going to be spent
in finding mistakes in my own programs. - Maurice Wilkes, 1949

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#67022

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On Sunday 16 August 2015 10:43:17 Ben Hutchings wrote:
> No stable release of Debian includes the Hyper-V guest agents, which I
> believe are strongly recommended.
> 
> They are now packaged in unstable (hyperv-daemons built from linux
> -tools source), and could possible be backported to jessie if they are
> that important.  However, I think some more work is needed to integrate
> them properly.

Interesting, thanks. As for "The Microsoft Azure Linux Agent" [1], it is 
Apache-2.0 licensed and should be trivially package-able...

[1]: https://github.com/Azure/WALinuxAgent

-- 
Best wishes,
 Dmitry Smirnov.

---

It is impossible to imagine Goethe or Beethoven being good at billiards
or golf.
        -- H. L. Mencken

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#67028

> Interesting, thanks. As for "The Microsoft Azure Linux Agent" [1], it is 
> Apache-2.0 licensed and should be trivially package-able...
> 
> [1]: https://github.com/Azure/WALinuxAgent

It's been in Debian for years. Recently it was updated to the latest
version. Please check https://packages.qa.debian.org/w/waagent.html

Michael
-- 
Michael Meskes
Michael at Fam-Meskes dot De, Michael at Meskes dot (De|Com|Net|Org)
Meskes at (Debian|Postgresql) dot Org
Jabber: michael.meskes at gmail dot com
VfL Borussia! Força Barça! Go SF 49ers! Use Debian GNU/Linux, PostgreSQL

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#67177

On 08/16/2015 01:22 PM, Michael Meskes wrote:
>> Interesting, thanks. As for "The Microsoft Azure Linux Agent" [1], it is 
>> Apache-2.0 licensed and should be trivially package-able...
>>
>> [1]: https://github.com/Azure/WALinuxAgent
> 
> It's been in Debian for years. Recently it was updated to the latest
> version. Please check https://packages.qa.debian.org/w/waagent.html

... it just never made it into a stable release....

-- 
 Bernd Zeimetz                            Debian GNU/Linux Developer
 http://bzed.de                                http://www.debian.org
 GPG Fingerprint: ECA1 E3F2 8E11 2432 D485  DD95 EB36 171A 6FF9 435F

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#67033

On Sun, Aug 16, 2015, at 05:43, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> On Sun, 2015-08-16 at 13:41 +1000, Dmitry Smirnov wrote:
> [...]
> > I found it very disappointing that I had to defend Debian against Ubuntu  
> > which is stealing our audience by somehow arranging more favourable hosting 
> > conditions on Azure. I'm not talking about availability of OS images. 
> > According to "Information for Non-Endorsed Distributions" [1] 
> > 
> >     "The Azure platform SLA applies to virtual machines running the Linux OS
> >      only when one of the endorsed distributions [2] is used".
> > 
> > So naturally my client is concerned that by choosing Debian they won't have 
> > benefits of SLA like they would have if they choose Ubuntu because the latter 
> > is "endorsed".
> [...]
> 
> No stable release of Debian includes the Hyper-V guest agents, which I
> believe are strongly recommended.

Not only that, but we would also likely have to pay attention to hv
support kernel-side (to backport important fixes and features that did
not make it to the stable kernels for whatever reason).

Someone that really cares about this should step up and claim the
debian-on-hv hat ;-)

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique de Moraes Holschuh <hmh@debian.org>

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#67049

On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 10:43:17 +0200
Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> wrote:
> They are now packaged in unstable (hyperv-daemons built from linux
> -tools source), and could possible be backported to jessie if they are
> that important.  However, I think some more work is needed to integrate
> them properly.

 I glad to hear hyperv-daemons package would be backported to Jessie :)
 And what is needed to do so? Of course, I would help if I can.

-- 
Hideki Yamane <henrich@iijmio-mail.jp>

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#67171

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On Sun, 2015-08-16 at 21:49 +0200, Hideki Yamane wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 10:43:17 +0200
> Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> wrote:
> > They are now packaged in unstable (hyperv-daemons built from linux
> > -tools source), and could possible be backported to jessie if they are
> > that important.  However, I think some more work is needed to integrate
> > them properly.
> 
>  I glad to hear hyperv-daemons package would be backported to Jessie :)
>  And what is needed to do so? Of course, I would help if I can.

I don't know that it will, but if it's critical enough for running
properly on Hyper-V or specifically Azure then I think it would be
approved for a stable update to jessie.

It is available in jessie-backports already.

Ben.

-- 
Ben Hutchings
Theory and practice are closer in theory than in practice.
                                - John Levine, moderator of comp.compilers

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#68344

Hi,

On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 21:58:24 +0200
Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> wrote:
> >  I glad to hear hyperv-daemons package would be backported to Jessie :)
> >  And what is needed to do so? Of course, I would help if I can.
> 
> I don't know that it will, but if it's critical enough for running
> properly on Hyper-V or specifically Azure then I think it would be
> approved for a stable update to jessie.
 
 Technically, Debian can run on Hyper-V without hyperv-daemons package.
 But it lucks important features like volume shadow copy service (VSS).

 And, about hyperv-daemons package is same situation as Azure, if Microsoft
 doesn't officially endorse Debian as support platform because of not
 providing hyperv-daemons package, many managers/clients doesn't allow
 to use Debian as a part of their systems due to luck of support that 
 compared to other distributions.

 It's sad, really sad.

 So I thinks we should care such situations, and try to improve it by adding
 hyperv-daemons package to stable (it means for production system).


 Adding hyperv-daemon package to stable is

 - it can solve political issue (support/endorse)
 - it improve managing VMs backup operation (at least)
 - no harm for existing packages/systems
 - low cost to backport it

 Please think about it.

 If we can add it to stable, then I'll ask microsoft to update their documents
 https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn614985.aspx


> It is available in jessie-backports already.

 Great :)


-- 
Regards,

 Hideki Yamane     henrich @ debian.or.jp/org
 http://wiki.debian.org/HidekiYamane

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