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Groups > linux.debian.devel > #116184 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Nilesh Patra <nilesh@iki.fi> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-03-05 19:30 +0100 |
| Last post | 2025-03-10 12:00 +0100 |
| Articles | 8 on this page of 48 — 17 participants |
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Re: Bits from DPL Nilesh Patra <nilesh@iki.fi> - 2025-03-05 19:30 +0100
Growing new FTP-masters (Re: Bits from DPL) Otto Kekäläinen <otto@debian.org> - 2025-03-05 20:00 +0100
Re: Growing new FTP-masters (Re: Bits from DPL) Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2025-03-06 09:10 +0100
Re: Growing new FTP-masters (Re: Bits from DPL) Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2025-03-06 11:00 +0100
Re: Growing new FTP-masters (Re: Bits from DPL) Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2025-03-06 14:10 +0100
Re: Growing new FTP-masters (Re: Bits from DPL) Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2025-03-09 05:40 +0100
Re: Growing new FTP-masters (Re: Bits from DPL) Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-09 12:20 +0100
Re: Growing new FTP-masters (Re: Bits from DPL) Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-09 12:40 +0100
Re: Growing new FTP-masters (Re: Bits from DPL) Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2025-03-09 12:50 +0100
Re: Growing new FTP-masters (Re: Bits from DPL) Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2025-03-09 12:40 +0100
Re: Growing new FTP-masters (Re: Bits from DPL) "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2025-03-09 12:50 +0100
Re: Growing new FTP-masters (Re: Bits from DPL) Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2025-03-09 15:00 +0100
Re: Growing new FTP-masters (Re: Bits from DPL) Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2025-03-19 00:30 +0100
Re: NEW review & revision process (or lack thereof) (Re: Growing new FTP-masters (Re: Bits from DPL)) Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-10 11:10 +0100
Re: NEW review & revision process (or lack thereof) (Re: Growing new FTP-masters (Re: Bits from DPL)) Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2025-03-10 11:50 +0100
Re: NEW review & revision process (or lack thereof) (Re: Growing new FTP-masters (Re: Bits from DPL)) "Jonathan Dowland" <jmtd@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 13:00 +0100
Re: Growing new FTP-masters (Re: Bits from DPL) Otto Kekäläinen <otto@debian.org> - 2025-03-06 20:20 +0100
Re: Bits from DPL Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2025-03-06 02:10 +0100
Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2025-03-06 05:30 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2025-03-06 10:50 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Julien Plissonneau Duquène <sre4ever@free.fr> - 2025-03-06 11:00 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2025-03-07 02:00 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-07 18:30 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2025-03-08 02:10 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-08 09:50 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2025-03-09 06:30 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2025-03-10 11:40 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Maytham Alsudany <maytham@debian.org> - 2025-03-09 11:10 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2025-03-11 10:00 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-11 16:40 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2025-03-12 02:00 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Maytham Alsudany <maytham@debian.org> - 2025-03-12 04:10 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-12 09:50 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2025-03-13 10:10 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> - 2025-03-06 13:30 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Otto Kekäläinen <otto@debian.org> - 2025-03-06 20:10 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Pirate Praveen <praveen@onenetbeyond.org> - 2025-03-07 09:00 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2025-03-07 11:20 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Otto Kekäläinen <otto@debian.org> - 2025-03-07 16:00 +0100
Re: Revisiting the idea of pre-NEW peer review? (Re: Bits from DPL) Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2025-03-09 06:20 +0100
Re: Bits from DPL Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-03-06 09:10 +0100
STFU please (Re: Bits from DPL) Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2025-03-06 09:40 +0100
Re: STFU please (Re: Bits from DPL) Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2025-03-06 10:00 +0100
Re: STFU please (Re: Bits from DPL) Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2025-03-06 10:10 +0100
Re: STFU please (Re: Bits from DPL) Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2025-03-08 00:30 +0100
Re: STFU please (Re: Bits from DPL) Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2025-03-06 11:10 +0100
Re: Bits from DPL Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2025-03-06 10:10 +0100
Re: Bits from DPL Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2025-03-10 12:00 +0100
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| From | Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-06 09:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <KnesP-3Zmi-29@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #116199 |
On Thu, Mar 06, 2025 at 09:01:13AM +0800, Sean Whitton wrote: >On Wed 05 Mar 2025 at 11:35pm +0530, Nilesh Patra wrote: >> Do you mind clarifying why that's the case, unless the reason is truly >> personal or undisclosable? > >It's pretty simple -- there is no-one with the free time to train them >right now, in which case trainees will simply burn out, because they >won't get enough feedback on their NEW reviews. This sounds like a self-amplifying situation. The project should do something against that, especially in such a core position. I thank the DPL for putting this to public attention. Greetings Marc. I'll take my Popcorn with salt please. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Leimen, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421
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| From | Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-06 09:40 +0100 |
| Subject | STFU please (Re: Bits from DPL) |
| Message-ID | <KneVQ-3Zxz-31@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #116208 |
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On Thu, Mar 06, 2025 at 08:58:48AM +0100, Marc Haber wrote: > Marc. I'll take my Popcorn with salt please. yeah, it's pretty funny to see a team burn out and have the same silly & salty discussion about this again and again. or maybe not. also talking about how NEW is a bottleneck will be really motivating to the person how has been doing most of NEW processing in the last months. or maybe not. I'm not sure about you, but just last week I got a package through NEW in a few hours. my rust upload folder also told me we (mostly sequoia, but also rebuilderd) go 86 packages through NEW in the last 15 months, which means more than one package per week. and that's just our little corner here. I do have some complaints about the ftp team, as I have about many things, *but* I also have tremendous respect for their work. and I know, you might have forgotten but it was discussed on d-d-a iirc, that several improvements are being worked on right, and that's not only tag2upload. so if the/a team says they cannot handle new members right now and thus there should be no big announcement asking for new members, I very much think this should be respected and not be ignored and spread on our most visible mailing list, where there pain will be consumed with popcorn. -- cheers, Holger ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ OpenPGP: B8BF54137B09D35CF026FE9D 091AB856069AAA1C ⠈⠳⣄ war is peace. freedom is slavery. ignorance is strength. infection is health.
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| From | Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-06 10:00 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: STFU please (Re: Bits from DPL) |
| Message-ID | <Knffb-3ZG3-13@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #116209 |
On Thu, Mar 06, 2025 at 08:39:13AM +0000, Holger Levsen wrote: >On Thu, Mar 06, 2025 at 08:58:48AM +0100, Marc Haber wrote: >> Marc. I'll take my Popcorn with salt please. > >yeah, it's pretty funny to see a team burn out and have the same silly >& salty discussion about this again and again. I apologize for trying to bring a smile into a heated discussion and will now return to shutting up to non-technical issues. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header Leimen, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402 Nordisch by Nature | How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421
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| From | Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-06 10:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: STFU please (Re: Bits from DPL) |
| Message-ID | <KnfoS-400e-19@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #116211 |
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On 06.03.25 09:53, Marc Haber wrote: > I apologize for trying to bring a smile into a heated discussion Thank you. -- -- regards -- -- Matthias Urlichs
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| From | Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-08 00:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: STFU please (Re: Bits from DPL) |
| Message-ID | <KnPiF-4pI0-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #116211 |
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On Thursday, March 6, 2025 1:53:27 AM MST Marc Haber wrote: > On Thu, Mar 06, 2025 at 08:39:13AM +0000, Holger Levsen wrote: > >On Thu, Mar 06, 2025 at 08:58:48AM +0100, Marc Haber wrote: > >> Marc. I'll take my Popcorn with salt please. > > > >yeah, it's pretty funny to see a team burn out and have the same silly > >& salty discussion about this again and again. > > I apologize for trying to bring a smile into a heated discussion and > will now return to shutting up to non-technical issues. I appreciated the humor. Sometimes humor is designed to pick on people or make someone feel bad. I don’t appreciate that type of humor. Other times humor is designed to lighten a tense conversation in a way that helps everyone relax and realize that maybe they could discuss a serious topic more productively if everyone wasn’t so tense about it. I find this type of humor to be pleasant and helpful. I felt Marc’s comment was the second. YMMV. :) -- Soren Stoutner soren@debian.org
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| From | Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-06 11:10 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: STFU please (Re: Bits from DPL) |
| Message-ID | <KngkV-40Fw-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #116209 |
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On Thu, Mar 06, 2025 at 02:54:32PM +0530, Pirate Praveen wrote: > On 3/6/25 2:09 PM, Holger Levsen wrote: > > so if the/a team says they cannot handle new members right now and thus > > there should be no big announcement asking for new members, I very much > > think this should be respected and not be ignored and spread on our > > most visible mailing list, where there pain will be consumed with popcorn. > This has been an long term recurring complaint without any tangible solution > or a plan from the concerned team, so I think it is important for the whole > project to address it, and not just leave it to the ftp team to resolve it > (they ave not been able to address it by themselves for a long time). yes, maybe, probably. but the way it's been done here currently is utterly disrespectful und hardly helpful at all. -- cheers, Holger ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ OpenPGP: B8BF54137B09D35CF026FE9D 091AB856069AAA1C ⠈⠳⣄ There are no jobs on a dead planet.
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| From | Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-06 10:10 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <KnfoR-400e-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #116208 |
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On 06.03.25 08:58, Marc Haber wrote: > I thank the DPL for putting this to public attention. > Well OK but mayybe he should have handled this a bit more diplomatically. Or maybe he tried to, and failed to get traction. I assume he'll tell us presently, if only to reduce the popcorn-to-serious-discussion ratio. > Greetings > Marc. I'll take my Popcorn with salt please. Please don't. We'll get enough of this sort of remark from LWN soon enough; treating peoples' honest concerns (not to mention their actual work for the project) as entertainment on-list is disingenious. -- -- regards -- -- Matthias Urlichs
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| From | Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-03-10 12:00 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <KoJ1v-50aR-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #116199 |
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Hello, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> wrote on 06/03/2025 at 02:01:13+0100: > Hello, > > On Wed 05 Mar 2025 at 11:35pm +0530, Nilesh Patra wrote: > >> Do you mind clarifying why that's the case, unless the reason is truly >> personal or undisclosable? > > It's pretty simple -- there is no-one with the free time to train them > right now, in which case trainees will simply burn out, because they > won't get enough feedback on their NEW reviews. > > We try to recruit only when there is someone who is able to dedicate > some time to training. That depends on what the other team members are > busy with, in and outside of Debian, at a given time. > > This was made very clear to Andreas. There is a risk for such a situation to become auto-feeded. I acknowledge the position of the ftpmasters team, but do you have a plan to avoid it becoming a vicious circle? Bests, -- PEB
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