Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.devel > #117057

Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models

Show all headers | View raw

On 5/5/25 01:58, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote:
> On Sun, May 04, 2025 at 09:24:45PM -0500, Steven Robbins wrote:
>>> More information can be found at:
>>> https://www.debian.org/vote/2025/vote_002
>>
>> I guess this is still in "discussion period"?  When does that period 
>> end and
>> the vote begin?
>
> That's described in 
> https://www.debian.org/devel/constitution.en.html#item-A (mostly in A.1).
> There is no single numeric answer, but the minimum period is 2 weeks.
>

"The minimum discussion period is 2 weeks. The maximum discussion period 
is 3 weeks."

This is surprising to me. Does that mean we must start to vote when we 
reach the
maximum discussion period? I just thought I can go back and reply to the 
detailed
issues in the threads after getting through the time trap of paper 
submission deadline.

It is too rush to start to vote for this within 3 weeks as I'm 
completely not available for
involving into discussions. At least I'd like to see potential voters to 
be well informed, as
the current status is the number of questions is much greater than answers.
Missing a formal "Proposal B" is also an indicator for such situation.

I have belief in my proposal. But now it seems the time needed to 
justify the design
details of proposal A is longer than the GR process. For example, 
proposal A has
explicitly defined the scope to one single (and most problematic) case 
to stay at
maximum simplicity. By proposing "XXX is not DFSG-compliant" can 
directly avoid
the trap of "defining what is free software AI within a single GR". That 
problem is
far beyond the capacity that a GR can handle.

OSI has spent years on this issue (while I started mentioning this much 
earlier), and
yet they converged into a controvertial definition. I have been arguing 
on the training
data issue at the very beginning of OSI's working group on OSAID and my
argument is continuously being ignored. Eventually I no longer bother to 
argue. I know
what I'm doing as a person who simultaneously speaks from @debian.org 
and trains
neural networks (both small ones and large ones) every single day.And 
now what I
mentioned at the very begining of OSAID is exactly the most 
controvertial point of
OSAID after its release.

Given the trajectory of OSI's attempt about this, I would like emphasize 
the proposal
A is in my opinion the most problematic and the most vote-able point. 
Trying to explicitly
expand the definition of "DFSG-compliant AI" will result in the 
expansion of countless
troubles and mess up the scope of the GR. Thus, to make the GR proposal 
practical,
it only says "what is NOT" instead of "what IS".

As I mentioned in Appendix D "Independence Utopia". It makes me 
uncomfortable
to define "DFSG-compliant AI" before I can really create such a thing 
with my limited
resource for FOSS actitvity.
https://salsa.debian.org/lumin/gr-ai-dfsg/-/blob/main/AppendixD.txt

I think people in the FOSS community understands what simplicity means.
Even if we are forced to vote after extension, I'm still very confident 
in proposal A.
It's just a pity that I cannot involve in discussion for my poor bandwidth.

Back to linux.debian.devel | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

  Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence  (AI) Models Steven Robbins <steve@sumost.ca> - 2025-05-05 04:40 +0200
  Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial  Intelligence (AI) Models Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2025-05-05 08:00 +0200
    Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial  Intelligence (AI) Models Mo Zhou <lumin@debian.org> - 2025-05-05 17:20 +0200
      Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial  Intelligence (AI) Models Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2025-05-05 17:50 +0200
        Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial  Intelligence (AI) Models Mo Zhou <lumin@debian.org> - 2025-05-05 20:50 +0200
          Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial  Intelligence (AI) Models Jeremy Bícha <jeremy.bicha@canonical.com> - 2025-05-05 22:20 +0200
            discussion extension (was: Re: General Resolution: Interpretation  of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models "M. Zhou" <lumin@debian.org> - 2025-05-06 00:30 +0200
              Re: discussion extension (was: Re: General Resolution:  Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models Andreas Tille <tille@debian.org> - 2025-05-06 08:00 +0200
      Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial  Intelligence (AI) Models Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2025-05-05 18:10 +0200
      Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial  Intelligence (AI) Models Stefano Rivera <stefanor@debian.org> - 2025-05-05 18:30 +0200
        Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial  Intelligence (AI) Models Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@debian.org> - 2025-05-05 18:30 +0200

csiph-web