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Re: Finding rough consensus on level of vendoring for large upstreams

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Quoting Phil Morrell (2021-09-03 03:30:04)
> On Fri, Sep 03, 2021 at 02:46:20AM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > First of all, thanks for compiling the list of reasonings.
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to read through it, I was hoping it would 
> be a useful observation.
> 
> > I get the impression that you are framing current state of embedding 
> > as a generally good thing to do, and if I understand that correctly 
> > then I disagree with it.
> 
> ish? I mostly tried to document current practice rather than have an 
> opinion on it being good. I do think that the evidence of multiple 
> independent maintainer teams coming to similar conclusions on the 
> basis of lack of user benefit and drag on new version velocity 
> indicates the positive side.
> 
> I believe, based on only a day's investigation, that you are in the 
> minority here. I don't mean that as a bad thing - 1/3 of DDs 
> disagree(d) with offering non-free alongside main - but I'd like to 
> hear why you think the maintainers I gave as examples should use their 
> Debian time to unvendor everything?

I do not think that those maintainers you gave as example should do 
differently.

My point is that those you gave as example are *exceptions* to a general 
practice in Debian of _avoiding_ embedding.


> > I suspect that it helps if separating reasons for _encouraging_ 
> > embedding (tiny upstream projects and deeply integrated sets of 
> > upstreams, I guess) from reasons for _discouraging_ embdding (all 
> > other cases, I guess).
> 
> I think the expanded points I gave empower maintainers to make the 
> best decision for their own packages. By laying out the permitted 
> reasons clearly, it's implied other reasons are not valid, but there's 
> probably something I haven't thought of.
> 
> However #907051 also wanted more background on _why_ one might choose 
> one way or the other, so please do elaborate on this if you can.

I am very worried about how complex node-* packages in Debian have 
become since ftpmasters explicitly stated a not-too-small rule and we 
began more aggressively embedding.  E.g. version of each embedded 
project is hidden by default, and those packages manually adding virtual 
packages has no mechanism to ensure that versions don't jump backwards 
or disappear due to a typos.


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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Finding rough consensus on level of vendoring for large upstreams Phil Morrell <debian@emorrp1.name> - 2021-09-03 00:40 +0200
  Re: Finding rough consensus on level of vendoring for large upstreams Jérémy Lal <kapouer@melix.org> - 2021-09-03 01:20 +0200
    Re: Finding rough consensus on level of vendoring for large upstreams Phil Morrell <debian@emorrp1.name> - 2021-09-03 03:10 +0200
      Re: Finding rough consensus on level of vendoring for large upstreams Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2021-09-03 17:30 +0200
  Re: Finding rough consensus on level of vendoring for large upstreams Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2021-09-03 02:50 +0200
    Re: Finding rough consensus on level of vendoring for large upstreams Phil Morrell <debian@emorrp1.name> - 2021-09-03 03:40 +0200
      Re: Finding rough consensus on level of vendoring for large upstreams Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2021-09-03 05:00 +0200
        Re: Finding rough consensus on level of vendoring for large upstreams Pirate Praveen <praveen@onenetbeyond.org> - 2021-09-03 18:50 +0200
    Bug#907051: Finding rough consensus on level of vendoring for large upstreams Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2021-09-03 11:30 +0200
  Re: Finding rough consensus on level of vendoring for large upstreams Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2021-09-03 05:30 +0200
  Re: Finding rough consensus on level of vendoring for large upstreams "Bastien Roucariès" <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com> - 2021-09-03 10:20 +0200
  Re: Finding rough consensus on level of vendoring for large upstreams Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2021-09-12 19:20 +0200
    Re: Finding rough consensus on level of vendoring for large upstreams Phil Morrell <debian@emorrp1.name> - 2021-09-15 17:40 +0200

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