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Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var

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On Tue, 6 Jun 2023 11:58:07 +0100 Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org>
wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Jun 2023 at 11:37:51 +0100, Sean Whitton wrote:
> > On Sun 04 Jun 2023 at 02:56PM +01, Simon McVittie wrote:
> > > Another possible mitigation which I haven't previously seen
proposed
> > > is giving *elogind* a Depends or Recommends on systemd-*-
standalone.
> > > I think that would work to mitigate the failure mode with (1.)
and (B.),
> > > and the installed-size argument seems less interesting here
because the
> > > sort of systems that require elogind are already much larger
anyway.
> > > Would the elogind maintainers be willing to consider this? Does
anyone
> > > see a reason why it wouldn't work?
> > 
> > So to confirm, you think that if the elogind maintainers did this,
then
> > default-systemd-tmpfiles could point at systemd rather than
> > systemd-standalone-tmpfiles, which the systemd maintainers prefer,
but
> > in addition, there aren't any scenarios in which people's systems
are
> > likely to be re-arranged when they don't want them to be?
> 
> Exactly. My hope is that if we had:
> 
>     Package: systemd
>     Architecture: linux-any
>     Provides: default-systemd-tmpfiles, systemd-tmpfiles
>     Conflicts: systemd-tmpfiles
>     Replaces: systemd-tmpfiles
> 
>     Package: systemd-standalone-tmpfiles
>     Architecture: linux-any
>     Provides: systemd-tmpfiles
>     Conflicts: systemd-tmpfiles
>     Replaces: systemd-tmpfiles
> 
>     Package: elogind
>     Depends: systemd-standalone-tmpfiles        # or Recommends?
> 
>     Package: foo-service     # any package that requires
tmpfiles.d(5)
>     Depends: default-systemd-tmpfiles | systemd-tmpfiles
> 
>     # optionally, if someone does the work
>     Package: openrc-tmpfiles                    # any other
implementation
>     Architecture: hurd-any kfreebsd-any
>     Provides: default-systemd-tmpfiles, systemd-tmpfiles
>     Conflicts: systemd-tmpfiles
>     Replaces: systemd-tmpfiles
> 
> then the right thing (or at least *a* right thing) would happen in
> all cases:
> 
> * install foo-service on a systemd-booted system:
>   systemd is already installed and the dependency is satisfied
> 
> * install foo-service on a sysvinit-booted desktop system with
elogind:
>   elogind is already installed, therefore systemd-standalone-tmpfiles
is
>   already installed and the dependency is satisfied, avoiding
#1016006 etc.
> 
> * install foo-service on a sysvinit-booted headless system with no
elogind:
>   systemd gets installed as a dependency by default, which is what
the
>   systemd maintainers would prefer to happen when there are no
compelling
>   space constraints; but the user can specifically ask for
>   systemd-standalone-tmpfiles if that's what they'd prefer
> 
> * install foo-service in a container with no init system at all:

Sounds like a good plan to me.

-- 
Kind regards,
Luca Boccassi

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Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-06-04 13:20 +0200
  Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2023-06-04 16:10 +0200
    Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-06-05 02:40 +0200
      Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2023-06-05 11:00 +0200
        Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-06-05 13:20 +0200
        Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Thorsten Glaser <t.glaser@tarent.de> - 2023-06-13 17:50 +0200
          Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Thorsten Glaser <t.glaser@tarent.de> - 2023-06-13 18:20 +0200
          Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Bill Allombert <ballombe@debian.org> - 2023-06-13 18:20 +0200
            Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2023-06-13 18:40 +0200
              Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-06-13 19:50 +0200
                Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2023-06-13 20:10 +0200
          Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2023-06-13 18:40 +0200
            Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Thorsten Glaser <t.glaser@tarent.de> - 2023-06-13 20:20 +0200
              Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2023-06-13 21:00 +0200
                Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Thorsten Glaser <t.glaser@tarent.de> - 2023-06-13 21:10 +0200
                Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2023-06-13 21:30 +0200
                Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Thorsten Glaser <t.glaser@tarent.de> - 2023-06-13 23:20 +0200
      Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2023-06-05 11:20 +0200
        Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-06-05 13:20 +0200
    Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-06-05 14:20 +0200
    Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2023-06-06 13:10 +0200
      Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-06-06 14:10 +0200
        Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2023-06-07 05:50 +0200
          Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2023-06-07 12:40 +0200
            Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-06-07 13:00 +0200
          Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-06-07 12:40 +0200
      Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Mark Hindley <mark@hindley.org.uk> - 2023-06-13 15:10 +0200
        Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Mark Hindley <mark@hindley.org.uk> - 2023-06-13 19:10 +0200
          Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2023-06-13 20:00 +0200
            Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-06-13 21:50 +0200
              Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2023-06-13 22:00 +0200
                Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-06-13 22:10 +0200
                Bug#945269: debian-policy: packages should use tmpfiles.d(5) to create directories below /var Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-06-13 22:30 +0200

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