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Groups > comp.theory > #107301 > unrolled thread
| Started by | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2024-06-16 22:33 -0500 |
| Last post | 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400 |
| Articles | 9 on this page of 169 — 7 participants |
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Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-16 22:33 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-17 10:31 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 07:20 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-17 15:30 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 08:47 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-17 16:18 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 09:34 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-17 16:49 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 10:56 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-18 09:57 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 07:38 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-06-18 14:42 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 08:34 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-18 17:20 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 10:33 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-18 17:47 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 11:26 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-06-18 18:28 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 11:34 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 10:08 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:00 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 15:56 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 10:01 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 17:47 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 11:08 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-20 10:17 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 20:23 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 19:44 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 21:39 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 21:02 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 22:17 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 21:25 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 07:33 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 09:58 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 21:55 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-20 22:48 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 17:52 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-20 23:05 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 18:09 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 21:55 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 21:29 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 22:43 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 08:17 +0300
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 00:22 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 07:33 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 17:54 +0300
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 10:06 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 21:55 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-06-18 17:56 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 11:29 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-17 18:42 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 20:16 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-17 21:24 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 21:04 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-17 22:33 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 21:36 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-17 22:44 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 22:01 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-17 23:15 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 22:28 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 07:36 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 08:21 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-18 17:06 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 12:25 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-18 17:57 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 13:16 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-18 20:37 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 16:29 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 08:48 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- test of dishonesty olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:12 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 16:08 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-18 21:36 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 16:54 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-19 09:29 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 09:05 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 17:51 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- The only reply until addressed olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:52 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- addressed joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 18:03 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- --- the only reply until FULLY addressed olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 13:26 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- --- the only reply until FULLY addressed joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-20 16:33 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 08:29 +0300
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 00:40 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 18:08 +0300
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 10:23 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 21:55 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-21 10:11 +0300
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 08:19 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 10:06 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-22 11:05 +0300
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 08:04 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-22 09:27 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 09:11 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-22 10:20 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 09:42 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-22 11:08 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-22 14:53 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-23 10:57 +0300
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 08:13 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-24 10:22 +0300
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 08:46 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-24 19:52 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-24 20:27 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 16:10 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:48 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-25 08:48 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-25 14:14 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-25 12:27 +0300
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-25 14:06 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 16:12 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:53 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:44 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 21:30 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:41 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 21:51 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 09:08 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:31 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 17:43 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- the only reply until addressed olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:48 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- the only reply until addressed joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 17:59 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 07:30 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 09:23 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 16:43 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:09 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 20:24 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:16 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 17:32 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:40 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 20:24 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 20:24 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 08:57 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:20 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 16:25 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-19 20:24 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 10:18 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:11 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 16:11 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 10:07 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-19 17:50 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 11:10 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-20 10:23 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 09:16 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-20 16:29 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 11:35 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-21 09:58 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 08:12 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 10:11 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-20 22:54 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 08:43 +0300
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 09:45 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-21 10:02 +0300
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 08:18 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 10:20 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting mean? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-22 11:14 +0300
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-06-18 13:52 +0200
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-18 19:21 +0300
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 11:30 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-18 19:37 +0300
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 11:45 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-19 12:30 +0300
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:47 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-19 17:45 +0000
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies --- The only reply until addressed olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 12:49 -0500
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 08:53 +0300
Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400
Page 9 of 9 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9]
| From | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-18 11:30 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <v4scnm$1eb2f$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #107380 |
On 6/18/2024 11:21 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2024-06-17 03:33:50 +0000, olcott said:
>
>> To understand this analysis requires a sufficient knowledge of
>> the C programming language and what an x86 emulator does.
>>
>> Unless every single detail is made 100% explicit false assumptions
>> always slip though the cracks. This is why it must be examined at
>> the C level before it is examined at the Turing Machine level.
>>
>> typedef void (*ptr)();
>> int H0(ptr P);
>>
>> void Infinite_Loop()
>> {
>> HERE: goto HERE;
>> }
>>
>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>> {
>> Infinite_Recursion();
>> }
>>
>> void DDD()
>> {
>> H0(DDD);
>> return;
>> }
>>
>> int main()
>> {
>> H0(Infinite_Loop);
>> H0(Infinite_Recursion);
>> H0(DDD);
>> }
>>
>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows that when H0
>> emulates the machine language of Infinite_Loop, Infinite_Recursion, and
>> DDD that it must abort these emulations so that itself can terminate
>> normally.
>>
>> When this is construed as non-halting criteria then simulating
>> termination analyzer H0 is correct to reject these inputs as non-
>> halting.
>
> The subject line is incorrect. The OP of "Simulating termination analyzers
> for dummies" should tell what a "simulating termination analyzer" is.
> The OP of this thread does not.
>
I state the prerequisites if you don't have them
then you cannot understand. If you have them then
what I say is self-evidently true.
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-18 19:37 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <v4sd4d$1edq0$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #107385 |
On 2024-06-18 16:30:46 +0000, olcott said:
> On 6/18/2024 11:21 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-06-17 03:33:50 +0000, olcott said:
>>
>>> To understand this analysis requires a sufficient knowledge of
>>> the C programming language and what an x86 emulator does.
>>>
>>> Unless every single detail is made 100% explicit false assumptions
>>> always slip though the cracks. This is why it must be examined at
>>> the C level before it is examined at the Turing Machine level.
>>>
>>> typedef void (*ptr)();
>>> int H0(ptr P);
>>>
>>> void Infinite_Loop()
>>> {
>>> HERE: goto HERE;
>>> }
>>>
>>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>>> {
>>> Infinite_Recursion();
>>> }
>>>
>>> void DDD()
>>> {
>>> H0(DDD);
>>> return;
>>> }
>>>
>>> int main()
>>> {
>>> H0(Infinite_Loop);
>>> H0(Infinite_Recursion);
>>> H0(DDD);
>>> }
>>>
>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows that when H0
>>> emulates the machine language of Infinite_Loop, Infinite_Recursion, and
>>> DDD that it must abort these emulations so that itself can terminate
>>> normally.
>>>
>>> When this is construed as non-halting criteria then simulating
>>> termination analyzer H0 is correct to reject these inputs as non-
>>> halting.
>>
>> The subject line is incorrect. The OP of "Simulating termination analyzers
>> for dummies" should tell what a "simulating termination analyzer" is.
>> The OP of this thread does not.
>>
>
> I state the prerequisites if you don't have them
> then you cannot understand. If you have them then
> what I say is self-evidently true.
What you sais ooes not include what the subject line promised.
--
Mikko
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| From | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-18 11:45 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <v4sdjm$1eb2f$7@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #107389 |
On 6/18/2024 11:37 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2024-06-18 16:30:46 +0000, olcott said:
>
>> On 6/18/2024 11:21 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-17 03:33:50 +0000, olcott said:
>>>
>>>> To understand this analysis requires a sufficient knowledge of
>>>> the C programming language and what an x86 emulator does.
>>>>
>>>> Unless every single detail is made 100% explicit false assumptions
>>>> always slip though the cracks. This is why it must be examined at
>>>> the C level before it is examined at the Turing Machine level.
>>>>
>>>> typedef void (*ptr)();
>>>> int H0(ptr P);
>>>>
>>>> void Infinite_Loop()
>>>> {
>>>> HERE: goto HERE;
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>>>> {
>>>> Infinite_Recursion();
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> void DDD()
>>>> {
>>>> H0(DDD);
>>>> return;
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> int main()
>>>> {
>>>> H0(Infinite_Loop);
>>>> H0(Infinite_Recursion);
>>>> H0(DDD);
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows that
>>>> when H0
>>>> emulates the machine language of Infinite_Loop, Infinite_Recursion, and
>>>> DDD that it must abort these emulations so that itself can terminate
>>>> normally.
>>>>
>>>> When this is construed as non-halting criteria then simulating
>>>> termination analyzer H0 is correct to reject these inputs as non-
>>>> halting.
>>>
>>> The subject line is incorrect. The OP of "Simulating termination
>>> analyzers
>>> for dummies" should tell what a "simulating termination analyzer" is.
>>> The OP of this thread does not.
>>>
>>
>> I state the prerequisites if you don't have them
>> then you cannot understand. If you have them then
>> what I say is self-evidently true.
>
> What you sais ooes not include what the subject line promised.
>
If all that you know is C and what and x86 emulator does
then you do obtain the gist of what a simulating termination
and analyzer does.
Because most people only glance at a couple of my words before
forming their rebuttal I had to make it overly concise.
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
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| From | Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-19 12:30 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <v4u8eu$1tcfc$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #107391 |
On 2024-06-18 16:45:42 +0000, olcott said:
> On 6/18/2024 11:37 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-06-18 16:30:46 +0000, olcott said:
>>
>>> On 6/18/2024 11:21 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-17 03:33:50 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>
>>>>> To understand this analysis requires a sufficient knowledge of
>>>>> the C programming language and what an x86 emulator does.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless every single detail is made 100% explicit false assumptions
>>>>> always slip though the cracks. This is why it must be examined at
>>>>> the C level before it is examined at the Turing Machine level.
>>>>>
>>>>> typedef void (*ptr)();
>>>>> int H0(ptr P);
>>>>>
>>>>> void Infinite_Loop()
>>>>> {
>>>>> HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>>>>> {
>>>>> Infinite_Recursion();
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>> {
>>>>> H0(DDD);
>>>>> return;
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> int main()
>>>>> {
>>>>> H0(Infinite_Loop);
>>>>> H0(Infinite_Recursion);
>>>>> H0(DDD);
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows that when H0
>>>>> emulates the machine language of Infinite_Loop, Infinite_Recursion, and
>>>>> DDD that it must abort these emulations so that itself can terminate
>>>>> normally.
>>>>>
>>>>> When this is construed as non-halting criteria then simulating
>>>>> termination analyzer H0 is correct to reject these inputs as non-
>>>>> halting.
>>>>
>>>> The subject line is incorrect. The OP of "Simulating termination analyzers
>>>> for dummies" should tell what a "simulating termination analyzer" is.
>>>> The OP of this thread does not.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I state the prerequisites if you don't have them
>>> then you cannot understand. If you have them then
>>> what I say is self-evidently true.
>>
>> What you sais ooes not include what the subject line promised.
>>
>
> If all that you know is C and what and x86 emulator does
> then you do obtain the gist of what a simulating termination
> and analyzer does.
I am not in your target audience (dummies who have good knowledge
of C and x86 emulator) so what I know or understand is outside of
the scope of this discussion.
> Because most people only glance at a couple of my words before
> forming their rebuttal I had to make it overly concise.
If there is an error in those couple of words then there is no
need to discuss the rest.
--
Mikko
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| From | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-19 08:47 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <v4unh5$1vpm0$9@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #107421 |
On 6/19/2024 4:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2024-06-18 16:45:42 +0000, olcott said:
>
>> On 6/18/2024 11:37 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-18 16:30:46 +0000, olcott said:
>>>
>>>> On 6/18/2024 11:21 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-06-17 03:33:50 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> To understand this analysis requires a sufficient knowledge of
>>>>>> the C programming language and what an x86 emulator does.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unless every single detail is made 100% explicit false assumptions
>>>>>> always slip though the cracks. This is why it must be examined at
>>>>>> the C level before it is examined at the Turing Machine level.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> typedef void (*ptr)();
>>>>>> int H0(ptr P);
>>>>>>
>>>>>> void Infinite_Loop()
>>>>>> {
>>>>>> HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>>>>>> {
>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion();
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>> {
>>>>>> H0(DDD);
>>>>>> return;
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>> {
>>>>>> H0(Infinite_Loop);
>>>>>> H0(Infinite_Recursion);
>>>>>> H0(DDD);
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows that
>>>>>> when H0
>>>>>> emulates the machine language of Infinite_Loop,
>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion, and
>>>>>> DDD that it must abort these emulations so that itself can terminate
>>>>>> normally.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When this is construed as non-halting criteria then simulating
>>>>>> termination analyzer H0 is correct to reject these inputs as non-
>>>>>> halting.
>>>>>
>>>>> The subject line is incorrect. The OP of "Simulating termination
>>>>> analyzers
>>>>> for dummies" should tell what a "simulating termination analyzer" is.
>>>>> The OP of this thread does not.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I state the prerequisites if you don't have them
>>>> then you cannot understand. If you have them then
>>>> what I say is self-evidently true.
>>>
>>> What you sais ooes not include what the subject line promised.
>>>
>>
>> If all that you know is C and what and x86 emulator does
>> then you do obtain the gist of what a simulating termination
>> and analyzer does.
>
> I am not in your target audience (dummies who have good knowledge
> of C and x86 emulator) so what I know or understand is outside of
> the scope of this discussion.
>
>> Because most people only glance at a couple of my words before
>> forming their rebuttal I had to make it overly concise.
>
> If there is an error in those couple of words then there is no
> need to discuss the rest.
>
OK so if you flat out don't have the mandatory prerequisites
there is no sense continuing our conversion. My impression
was that you understood these things quite well.
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
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| From | joes <noreply@example.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-19 17:45 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <v4v5gc$fhqs$8@i2pn2.org> |
| In reply to | #107432 |
Am Wed, 19 Jun 2024 08:47:17 -0500 schrieb olcott: > On 6/19/2024 4:30 AM, Mikko wrote: >> On 2024-06-18 16:45:42 +0000, olcott said: >>> On 6/18/2024 11:37 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>> On 2024-06-18 16:30:46 +0000, olcott said: >>>>> On 6/18/2024 11:21 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>> On 2024-06-17 03:33:50 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>> The subject line is incorrect. The OP of "Simulating termination >>>>>> analyzers for dummies" should tell what a "simulating termination >>>>>> analyzer" is. >>>>>> The OP of this thread does not. >>>>> I state the prerequisites if you don't have them then you cannot >>>>> understand. If you have them then what I say is self-evidently true. What do you call this, argument from obscurity? You should explain better. -- joes
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| From | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-19 12:49 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: Simulating termination analyzers for dummies --- The only reply until addressed |
| Message-ID | <v4v5n4$236bi$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #107455 |
On 6/19/2024 12:45 PM, joes wrote:
> Am Wed, 19 Jun 2024 08:47:17 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>> On 6/19/2024 4:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-18 16:45:42 +0000, olcott said:
>>>> On 6/18/2024 11:37 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-06-18 16:30:46 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>> On 6/18/2024 11:21 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-06-17 03:33:50 +0000, olcott said:
>
>>>>>>> The subject line is incorrect. The OP of "Simulating termination
>>>>>>> analyzers for dummies" should tell what a "simulating termination
>>>>>>> analyzer" is.
>>>>>>> The OP of this thread does not.
>>>>>> I state the prerequisites if you don't have them then you cannot
>>>>>> understand. If you have them then what I say is self-evidently true.
> What do you call this, argument from obscurity? You should explain better.
>
>
void DDD()
{
H0(DDD);
}
_DDD()
[000020a2] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping
[000020a3] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping
[000020a5] 68a2200000 push 000020a2 ; push DDD
[000020aa] e8f3f9ffff call 00001aa2 ; call H0
[000020af] 83c404 add esp,+04 ; housekeeping
[000020b2] 5d pop ebp ; housekeeping
[000020b3] c3 ret ; never gets here
Size in bytes:(0018) [000020b3]
Exactly which step of DDD emulated by H0 was emulated
incorrectly such that this emulation would be complete?
AKA DDD emulated by H0 reaches machine address [000020b3]
--
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
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| From | Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-20 08:53 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <v50g4l$2ekq6$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #107432 |
On 2024-06-19 13:47:17 +0000, olcott said:
> On 6/19/2024 4:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-06-18 16:45:42 +0000, olcott said:
>>
>>> On 6/18/2024 11:37 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-18 16:30:46 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>
>>>>> On 6/18/2024 11:21 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-06-17 03:33:50 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To understand this analysis requires a sufficient knowledge of
>>>>>>> the C programming language and what an x86 emulator does.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unless every single detail is made 100% explicit false assumptions
>>>>>>> always slip though the cracks. This is why it must be examined at
>>>>>>> the C level before it is examined at the Turing Machine level.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> typedef void (*ptr)();
>>>>>>> int H0(ptr P);
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> void Infinite_Loop()
>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>> HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion();
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>> H0(DDD);
>>>>>>> return;
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>> H0(Infinite_Loop);
>>>>>>> H0(Infinite_Recursion);
>>>>>>> H0(DDD);
>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows that when H0
>>>>>>> emulates the machine language of Infinite_Loop, Infinite_Recursion, and
>>>>>>> DDD that it must abort these emulations so that itself can terminate
>>>>>>> normally.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When this is construed as non-halting criteria then simulating
>>>>>>> termination analyzer H0 is correct to reject these inputs as non-
>>>>>>> halting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The subject line is incorrect. The OP of "Simulating termination analyzers
>>>>>> for dummies" should tell what a "simulating termination analyzer" is.
>>>>>> The OP of this thread does not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I state the prerequisites if you don't have them
>>>>> then you cannot understand. If you have them then
>>>>> what I say is self-evidently true.
>>>>
>>>> What you sais ooes not include what the subject line promised.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If all that you know is C and what and x86 emulator does
>>> then you do obtain the gist of what a simulating termination
>>> and analyzer does.
>>
>> I am not in your target audience (dummies who have good knowledge
>> of C and x86 emulator) so what I know or understand is outside of
>> the scope of this discussion.
>>
>>> Because most people only glance at a couple of my words before
>>> forming their rebuttal I had to make it overly concise.
>>
>> If there is an error in those couple of words then there is no
>> need to discuss the rest.
>>
>
> OK so if you flat out don't have the mandatory prerequisites
> there is no sense continuing our conversion. My impression
> was that you understood these things quite well.
People oftehn get the impression that I understand quite well
whatever I happen to talk about. The probable reason is that
I prefer to say only what I know and understand and to leave
the rest to others.
About the particular topic of subject lines, nobody has pointed out
any defects in my understanding. Perhaps my understanding is good
enough or perhaps they just don't care.
--
Mikko
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| From | Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2024-06-18 22:16 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <v4tf23$ddeo$5@i2pn2.org> |
| In reply to | #107385 |
On 6/18/24 12:30 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/18/2024 11:21 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-06-17 03:33:50 +0000, olcott said:
>>
>>> To understand this analysis requires a sufficient knowledge of
>>> the C programming language and what an x86 emulator does.
>>>
>>> Unless every single detail is made 100% explicit false assumptions
>>> always slip though the cracks. This is why it must be examined at
>>> the C level before it is examined at the Turing Machine level.
>>>
>>> typedef void (*ptr)();
>>> int H0(ptr P);
>>>
>>> void Infinite_Loop()
>>> {
>>> HERE: goto HERE;
>>> }
>>>
>>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>>> {
>>> Infinite_Recursion();
>>> }
>>>
>>> void DDD()
>>> {
>>> H0(DDD);
>>> return;
>>> }
>>>
>>> int main()
>>> {
>>> H0(Infinite_Loop);
>>> H0(Infinite_Recursion);
>>> H0(DDD);
>>> }
>>>
>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows that when H0
>>> emulates the machine language of Infinite_Loop, Infinite_Recursion, and
>>> DDD that it must abort these emulations so that itself can terminate
>>> normally.
>>>
>>> When this is construed as non-halting criteria then simulating
>>> termination analyzer H0 is correct to reject these inputs as non-
>>> halting.
>>
>> The subject line is incorrect. The OP of "Simulating termination
>> analyzers
>> for dummies" should tell what a "simulating termination analyzer" is.
>> The OP of this thread does not.
>>
>
> I state the prerequisites if you don't have them
> then you cannot understand. If you have them then
> what I say is self-evidently true.
>
Since you fail to have them, so you can't talk about it either.
An aborted simulation never, by itself, tells us about the halting
behavior of the machine simulated.
From Infinite_Loop, and Infinite_Recursion, there are valid induction
arguements that can be used to prove tha the actual behavior of the
machines is non-halting.
That doesn't work for DDD, as the PROGRAM DDD includes the code for H0,
and thus the valid induction proof can't change it. Thus when you look
farther, we see that H1, which simulate DDD calling H0 far enogh to see
H0 make it decision, see that it will halt.
Your problem is you don't understand what a "program" is, so you don't
understand what the input actually needs to be.
Thus, your FAIL and by continuing to repeat the error after it being
pointed out, it turns into a LIE>
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