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Groups > comp.theory > #106862 > unrolled thread

Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS ---

Started byolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
First post2024-06-09 22:54 -0500
Last post2024-06-12 08:24 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 373 — 11 participants

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Contents

  Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-09 22:54 -0500
    Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-10 08:35 +0000
      Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-10 12:59 +0300
        Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-10 10:33 -0500
          Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-11 12:00 +0300
            Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 12:10 -0500
      Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-10 09:36 -0500
        Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-10 15:25 +0000
          Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-10 10:36 -0500
            Re: D simulated by H unproved for THREE YEARS --- joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-10 17:06 +0000
              Re: D simulated by H unproved for THREE YEARS --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-10 12:31 -0500
    Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-10 07:16 -0400
      Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- Richard admits his error olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-10 21:06 -0500
        Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- Richard admits his error Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-10 23:32 -0400
          Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- Richard admits his error olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-10 23:31 -0500
            Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- Richard admits his error Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 07:47 -0400
              Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 12:12 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 18:47 -0400
                  Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 18:23 -0500
                    Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-06-12 02:20 +0200
                      Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 19:57 -0500
                        Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 22:32 -0400
                          Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 22:34 -0500
                            Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 07:33 -0400
                              Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 11:50 -0500
                                Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 18:59 -0400
                                  Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 18:12 -0500
                                    Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 19:41 -0400
                                      Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 18:53 -0500
                                        Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 20:37 -0400
                                          Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 20:19 -0500
                                            Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 21:50 -0400
                                              Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 20:54 -0500
                                                Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 22:06 -0400
                                                  Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 21:21 -0500
                                                    Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 22:57 -0400
                                                      Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 22:24 -0500
                                                        Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 23:45 -0400
                                                          Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 22:58 -0500
                                                            Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 07:31 -0400
                                                              Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 10:32 -0500
                                                                Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-13 17:34 +0000
                                                                Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 21:24 -0400
                                                                  Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 20:39 -0500
                                                                    Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 23:04 -0400
                                                                      H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 22:14 -0500
                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 23:44 -0400
                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 23:13 -0500
                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-14 07:39 -0400
                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 08:15 -0500
                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-14 15:54 +0000
                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 12:39 -0500
                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-14 19:27 -0400
                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-15 11:34 +0000
                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 07:21 -0500
                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 09:52 -0400
                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-15 15:33 +0300
                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 08:24 -0500
                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 09:51 -0400
                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-16 12:15 +0300
                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-16 07:59 -0500
                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-17 10:10 +0300
                                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-17 07:51 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-18 10:44 +0300
                                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 07:46 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-18 18:36 +0300
                                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 10:44 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-18 19:27 +0300
                                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-18 11:36 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-19 11:07 +0300
                                                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-19 08:37 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 08:04 +0300
                                                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 00:15 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-20 17:42 +0300
                                                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 10:04 -0500
                                                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-20 16:16 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 11:28 -0500
                                                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-21 10:05 +0200
                                                                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 08:13 -0500
                                                                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 10:27 -0400
                                                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 21:55 -0400
                                                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 21:04 -0500
                                                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 22:38 -0400
                                                                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 21:46 -0500
                                                                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 22:59 -0400
                                                                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 22:30 -0500
                                                                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-20 23:52 -0400
                                                                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-20 23:01 -0500
                                                                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 10:36 -0400
                                                                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 11:56 -0500
                                                                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 13:06 -0400
                                                                                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 12:16 -0500
                                                                                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 13:26 -0400
                                                                                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 12:38 -0500
                                                                                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 13:52 -0400
                                                                                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 13:18 -0500
                                                                                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 14:42 -0400
                                                                                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 13:53 -0500
                                                                                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 15:05 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 14:19 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 15:33 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 14:45 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 16:00 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 15:52 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 17:10 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 16:25 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 17:46 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 17:44 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 18:58 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 18:11 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 19:36 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Dogma olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 18:27 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Dogma Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 19:38 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Dogma olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 22:16 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Dogma joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-22 04:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Dogma olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 23:31 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Dogma -- other deciders joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-22 08:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Dogma Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-22 09:03 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Dogma olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 08:12 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Dogma Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-22 09:38 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Dogma Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-22 08:59 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Dogma olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 08:12 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Dogma Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-22 09:38 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-22 04:09 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 23:18 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Boilerplate Reply -- different simulation joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-22 08:47 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Boilerplate Reply -- different simulation olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 08:08 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Boilerplate Reply -- different simulation joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-22 14:36 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-22 09:05 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 08:15 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-22 09:35 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-22 12:08 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 07:58 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-22 09:22 -0400
                                                                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 08:49 -0500
                                                                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Boilerplate Reply Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 10:41 -0400
                                                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-21 10:16 +0300
                                                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-21 08:21 -0500
                                                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-21 10:43 -0400
                                                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-22 14:06 +0300
                                                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-22 20:39 +0200
                                                                                                                                DDD correctly emulated by H0 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 13:47 -0500
                                                                                                                                  Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-22 20:53 +0200
                                                                                                                                    Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-22 13:56 -0500
                                                                                                                                      Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-22 15:11 -0400
                                                                                                                                  Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-25 09:22 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 08:16 -0500
                                                                                                                                      Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-25 13:46 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 09:03 -0500
                                                                                                                                          Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-25 14:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-25 16:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 12:21 -0500
                                                                                                                                              Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-25 20:25 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2024-06-25 15:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Ben fails to understand computable functions olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 09:21 -0500
                                                                                                                                            Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Ben fails to understand computable functions Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 21:47 -0400
                                                                                                                                          Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-25 14:46 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 12:45 -0500
                                                                                                                                              Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 21:47 -0400
                                                                                                                                                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 21:05 -0500
                                                                                                                                                  Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 22:23 -0400
                                                                                                                                                    Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 21:29 -0500
                                                                                                                                                      Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 22:55 -0400
                                                                                                                                                        Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 22:29 -0500
                                                                                                                                                          Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 23:35 -0400
                                                                                                                                                            Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 22:42 -0500
                                                                                                                                                              Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 07:02 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 08:42 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 19:41 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 18:46 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 19:55 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 19:20 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 20:42 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2024-06-27 02:15 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2024-06-27 02:30 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 21:52 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2024-06-27 03:06 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 21:29 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 22:38 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 22:39 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 21:51 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 23:16 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 22:34 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-27 07:34 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-27 08:35 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-27 19:57 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 21:13 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 22:39 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 21:56 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 23:15 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 22:30 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-27 07:34 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-27 09:00 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-27 19:57 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 21:04 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2024-06-27 03:16 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 21:35 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 21:00 -0500
                                                                                                                                                      Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-26 11:41 +0300
                                                                                                                                                        Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 07:58 -0500
                                                                                                                                                          Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 19:41 -0400
                                                                                                                                                          Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-27 10:36 +0300
                                                                                                                                                            Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-27 09:10 -0500
                                                                                                                                                              Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-27 18:35 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-27 11:56 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-27 17:25 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-27 12:38 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-28 12:25 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 10:21 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-28 16:21 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-29 11:05 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-27 19:57 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-28 11:30 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 07:40 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                      Re:  Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-28 13:04 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-28 23:49 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-29 11:10 +0300
                                                                                                                                        Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2024-06-25 16:41 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 10:56 -0500
                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-14 19:27 -0400
                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 19:34 -0500
                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-14 21:38 -0400
                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 20:59 -0500
                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-14 22:16 -0400
                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 21:25 -0500
                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-14 22:48 -0400
                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 21:52 -0500
                                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-14 23:43 -0400
                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 21:06 -0500
                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-14 22:17 -0400
                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 21:39 -0500
                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-14 22:50 -0400
                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 21:56 -0500
                                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-14 23:36 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 22:39 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-14 23:48 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 22:55 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 06:56 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 08:35 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 09:51 -0400
                                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 09:23 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 10:46 -0400
                                                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 10:03 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 11:18 -0400
                                                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 10:41 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 11:52 -0400
                                                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 11:11 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 12:24 -0400
                                                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 11:31 -0500
                                                                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 12:39 -0400
                                                                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 11:50 -0500
                                                                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 13:04 -0400
                                                                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 12:16 -0500
                                                                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 13:23 -0400
                                                                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 12:33 -0500
                                                                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 13:41 -0400
                                                                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 13:03 -0500
                                                                                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 14:10 -0400
                                                                                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 14:16 -0500
                                                                                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 19:06 -0400
                                                                                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 18:28 -0500
                                                                                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 19:51 -0400
                                                                                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 19:39 -0500
                                                                                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 21:11 -0400
                                                                                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 20:57 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 22:32 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 22:16 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-16 07:44 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-16 08:21 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-16 13:30 -0400
                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-15 11:48 +0000
                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 07:26 -0500
                                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. (Just misunderstood) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 09:52 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. (Just misunderstood) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 09:44 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. (Just misunderstood) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 11:09 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. (Just misunderstood) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 10:17 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth Itself is not Broken. (Just misunderstood) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 11:24 -0400
                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-14 08:38 +0000
                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 07:34 -0500
                                                                  H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2 ---ignoring all other replies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 09:37 -0500
                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2 ---ignoring all other replies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 11:00 -0400
                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2 ---ignoring all other replies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 10:07 -0500
                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2 ---ignoring all other replies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 11:12 -0400
                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2 ---ignoring all other replies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 10:54 -0500
                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2 ---ignoring all other replies joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-15 16:11 +0000
                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2 ---ignoring all other replies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 11:19 -0500
                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2 ---ignoring all other replies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 12:26 -0400
                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2 ---ignoring all other replies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 11:31 -0500
                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2 ---ignoring all other replies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 12:41 -0400
                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2 ---ignoring all other replies Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 12:12 -0400
                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2 ---ignoring all other replies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 11:23 -0500
                                                                  H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 11:57 -0500
                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 13:17 -0400
                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 12:39 -0500
                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 14:08 -0400
                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 13:55 -0500
                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 19:15 -0400
                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 18:40 -0500
                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 19:57 -0400
                                                                                  Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 19:44 -0500
                                                                                    Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 21:13 -0400
                                                                                      Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 20:39 -0500
                                                                                        Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-15 22:02 -0400
                                                                                          Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-15 22:22 -0500
                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-06-16 11:34 +0300
                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-16 07:53 -0500
                                                                                            Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-16 07:44 -0400
                                                                                              Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-16 08:04 -0500
                                                                                                Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-16 13:30 -0400
                                                    Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-13 08:05 +0000
                                                      Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 07:55 -0500
                                                        Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules onion@anon.invalid (Mr Ön!on) - 2024-06-13 14:52 +0100
                                                          Re: ❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄ 🏳️‍🌈D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules🏳️‍🌈 ❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄❄ Snowflake ❄ (Was: 🏳️‍🌈D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules🏳️‍🌈) 🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈Jen🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈 Dershmender 💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🐶笛🌈💐🌻🌺🌹🌻💐🌷🌺🌈 <root@127.0.0.1>  - 2024-06-13 14:51 +0000
                                                        Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 21:28 -0400
                                        Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-13 08:42 +0000
                                    Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-13 08:52 +0000
                                      Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 07:58 -0500
                                        Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-13 16:53 +0000
                                          Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite string transformation rules olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 12:06 -0500
                                            Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- simulating vs. deciding joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-13 17:38 +0000
                                              Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- simulating vs. deciding olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 07:07 -0500
                    Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-11 22:30 -0400
                      Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-11 22:21 -0500
                        Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 07:33 -0400
                          Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 11:57 -0500
                            Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 19:03 -0400
                              Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 18:25 -0500
                                Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 19:45 -0400
                                  Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 19:37 -0500
                                    Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 20:52 -0400
                                      Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 20:27 -0500
                                        Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 21:36 -0400
                                          Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 20:50 -0500
                                            Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 22:16 -0400
                                              Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 21:25 -0500
                                                Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 22:37 -0400
                                                  Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 21:48 -0500
                                                    Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 23:08 -0400
                                                      Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 22:26 -0500
                                                        Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-12 23:49 -0400
                                                          Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-12 23:06 -0500
                                                            Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-13 08:23 +0000
                                                            Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 07:31 -0400
                                                              Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 08:37 -0500
                                                                Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-13 17:19 +0000
                                                                Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 22:19 -0400
                                                                  Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 21:22 -0500
                                                                    Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 23:06 -0400
                                            Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-13 08:12 +0000
                                              Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transformations olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 08:07 -0500
                                                Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transfermentations joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-13 17:06 +0000
                                                  Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transfermentations olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 13:07 -0500
                                                    Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transfermentations Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 22:30 -0400
                                                      Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transfermentations olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 21:31 -0500
                                                Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transformations Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 22:27 -0400
                                                  Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transformations olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 21:30 -0500
                                Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-13 08:49 +0000
                                  Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 08:10 -0500
                                    Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-06-13 14:35 +0000
                                      Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 10:08 -0500
                                        Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-13 17:26 +0000
                                          Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 07:05 -0500
                                            Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-14 19:27 -0400
                                              Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 19:40 -0500
                                                Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-14 21:58 -0400
                                                  Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 21:06 -0500
                                                Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-14 22:05 -0400
                                                  Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-14 21:07 -0500
                                        Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 22:35 -0400
                                    Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- specification joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-13 17:09 +0000
                                    Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-13 22:31 -0400
                                      Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-13 21:33 -0500
                Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-06-12 08:24 +0200

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#107045 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-12 23:06 -0500
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten
Message-ID<v4dr86$2379j$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107041
On 6/12/2024 10:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/12/24 11:26 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/12/2024 10:08 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/12/24 10:48 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/2024 9:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/24 10:25 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 9:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 9:50 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 8:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT IS ASSUMED.
>>>>>>>>>> THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION THAT IS BEING ASKED.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How do you say that?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do you not understand the meaning of the words "Halt Decider"?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> H must derive the question that it is being asked by computing
>>>>>>>>>> the mapping from its finite string input to the behavior 
>>>>>>>>>> specified
>>>>>>>>>> by this finite string input.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, Definitions don't mean anything?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Halt deciders are not being asked English questions nitwit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the formal question can be translated into English.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And the PROBLEM statements can be written in English as a 
>>>>>>> requirements doecument.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Halt Deciders" don't need to "understand" the question, they 
>>>>>>> just do what they are programmed to do. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> H can only see that it must report on D correctly simulated by H.
>>>>>> No one ever tells it anything different than this.
>>>>>
>>>>> H doesn't need to "know" what it is doing. It PROGRAMMER does.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The input to H(D,D) does not tell H to look at the behavior of D(D).
>>>>
>>>> You are currently too ignorant to understand this mainly because
>>>> you don't want to bother to seriously consider that I may be correct.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Of course the input doesn't tell it that. The problem description 
>>> tells the programmer that is what he was supposed to do.
>>>
>>
>> The INPUT must tell the program what the question is.
>> What does the expression: COMPUTE THE MAPPING FROM INPUTS
>> mean to you in your own words?
>>
> 
> Of course not.
> 
> Most programs just read in data, and do the operation they were 
> programmed to do on the data.
> 

Simplistic.
H must be able to objectively determine the exact behavior
that it is to report on and no one ever told it about D(D).
They only told it about D correctly simulated by H.

> I will ask you, where in the input to H is the question about asking 
> about its behavior encoded in ANY way?
> 
> The question a program answers, is part of the program specification, 
> not the input.
> 

The input must tell H about its behavior and it does not tell
H about D(D).

> Yes, some programs implement a flexible question, where some of the 
> details about the question are added to the input, but the form of that 
> question is still fully specified by the program specifications.
> 
> You just don't understand what programs are.
> 
> I guess you are just a failed coder.

I have two patents on OCR technology.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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#107050 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten

Fromjoes <noreply@example.com>
Date2024-06-13 08:23 +0000
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten
Message-ID<v4eaak$3rbs4$3@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#107045
Am Wed, 12 Jun 2024 23:06:30 -0500 schrieb olcott:
> On 6/12/2024 10:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/12/24 11:26 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/12/2024 10:08 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/24 10:48 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/2024 9:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/12/24 10:25 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 9:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 9:50 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 8:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>> H must derive the question that it is being asked by computing
>>>>>>>>>>> the mapping from its finite string input to the behavior
>>>>>>>>>>> specified by this finite string input.
The input is D(D), and the answer is its behaviour, not how H
wrongly simulates it.

>>>>>>> H can only see that it must report on D simulated by H.
>>>>>>> No one ever tells it anything different than this.
H does not know about or simulate itself. It must simply report on D,
however it does it.
If it were reporting on the result of what it was simulating, it could
give any answer it wanted.

>>>>> The input to H(D,D) does not tell H to look at the behavior of D(D).
WHAT? It even simulates it!

> H must be able to objectively determine the exact behavior that it is to
> report on and no one ever told it about D(D). They only told it about D
> correctly simulated by H.
The input is D(D), not H(D,D). The latter is the whole result.
If we were computing H(H,D(D)), it could give any answer it wanted and
would be tautologically correct. "I computed this result, therefore I am
correct." H is not part of the input.

>> I will ask you, where in the input to H is the question about asking
>> about its behavior encoded in ANY way?
>> The question a program answers, is part of the program specification,
>> not the input.
> The input must tell H about its behavior and it does not tell H about
> D(D).
Huh? When the input is D(D), H can know its behaviour.

-- 
joes

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#107055 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten

FromRichard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Date2024-06-13 07:31 -0400
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten
Message-ID<v4el9k$3rsd6$2@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#107045
On 6/13/24 12:06 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/12/2024 10:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/12/24 11:26 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/12/2024 10:08 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/24 10:48 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/2024 9:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/12/24 10:25 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 9:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 9:50 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 8:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT IS ASSUMED.
>>>>>>>>>>> THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION THAT IS BEING ASKED.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How do you say that?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do you not understand the meaning of the words "Halt Decider"?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> H must derive the question that it is being asked by computing
>>>>>>>>>>> the mapping from its finite string input to the behavior 
>>>>>>>>>>> specified
>>>>>>>>>>> by this finite string input.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, Definitions don't mean anything?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Halt deciders are not being asked English questions nitwit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But the formal question can be translated into English.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And the PROBLEM statements can be written in English as a 
>>>>>>>> requirements doecument.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Halt Deciders" don't need to "understand" the question, they 
>>>>>>>> just do what they are programmed to do. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> H can only see that it must report on D correctly simulated by H.
>>>>>>> No one ever tells it anything different than this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> H doesn't need to "know" what it is doing. It PROGRAMMER does.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The input to H(D,D) does not tell H to look at the behavior of D(D).
>>>>>
>>>>> You are currently too ignorant to understand this mainly because
>>>>> you don't want to bother to seriously consider that I may be correct.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Of course the input doesn't tell it that. The problem description 
>>>> tells the programmer that is what he was supposed to do.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The INPUT must tell the program what the question is.
>>> What does the expression: COMPUTE THE MAPPING FROM INPUTS
>>> mean to you in your own words?
>>>
>>
>> Of course not.
>>
>> Most programs just read in data, and do the operation they were 
>> programmed to do on the data.
>>
> 
> Simplistic.
> H must be able to objectively determine the exact behavior
> that it is to report on and no one ever told it about D(D).
> They only told it about D correctly simulated by H.

No, it does not.

To be CORRECT, it needs to determine that behavior.

And for the problem to be valid, there needs to be an objective standard 
to measure the answer, but t doesn't need to be computable by H.



> 
>> I will ask you, where in the input to H is the question about asking 
>> about its behavior encoded in ANY way?
>>
>> The question a program answers, is part of the program specification, 
>> not the input.
>>
> 
> The input must tell H about its behavior and it does not tell
> H about D(D).

No, the input must represent the thing being asked about.

And the input to H(D,D) does FULLY specify the information needed to 
determine the answer (at least when you include that the input ALSO 
includes all the instructions of H and everything that H calls, else YOU 
made the error of not giving H enough information)

> 
>> Yes, some programs implement a flexible question, where some of the 
>> details about the question are added to the input, but the form of 
>> that question is still fully specified by the program specifications.
>>
>> You just don't understand what programs are.
>>
>> I guess you are just a failed coder.
> 
> I have two patents on OCR technology.
> 

So? Were they actually useful?

I have several patents, and a number of idea protected under trade 
secrets because they were to useful to be patented.

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#107064 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-13 08:37 -0500
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten
Message-ID<v4esmp$28g4v$8@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107055
On 6/13/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/13/24 12:06 AM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/12/2024 10:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/12/24 11:26 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/2024 10:08 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/24 10:48 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 9:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 10:25 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 9:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 9:50 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 8:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT IS ASSUMED.
>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION THAT IS BEING ASKED.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> How do you say that?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Do you not understand the meaning of the words "Halt Decider"?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> H must derive the question that it is being asked by computing
>>>>>>>>>>>> the mapping from its finite string input to the behavior 
>>>>>>>>>>>> specified
>>>>>>>>>>>> by this finite string input.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So, Definitions don't mean anything?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Halt deciders are not being asked English questions nitwit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But the formal question can be translated into English.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And the PROBLEM statements can be written in English as a 
>>>>>>>>> requirements doecument.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Halt Deciders" don't need to "understand" the question, they 
>>>>>>>>> just do what they are programmed to do. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> H can only see that it must report on D correctly simulated by H.
>>>>>>>> No one ever tells it anything different than this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> H doesn't need to "know" what it is doing. It PROGRAMMER does.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The input to H(D,D) does not tell H to look at the behavior of D(D).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are currently too ignorant to understand this mainly because
>>>>>> you don't want to bother to seriously consider that I may be correct.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course the input doesn't tell it that. The problem description 
>>>>> tells the programmer that is what he was supposed to do.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The INPUT must tell the program what the question is.
>>>> What does the expression: COMPUTE THE MAPPING FROM INPUTS
>>>> mean to you in your own words?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Of course not.
>>>
>>> Most programs just read in data, and do the operation they were 
>>> programmed to do on the data.
>>>
>>
>> Simplistic.
>> H must be able to objectively determine the exact behavior
>> that it is to report on and no one ever told it about D(D).
>> They only told it about D correctly simulated by H.
> 
> No, it does not.
> 
> To be CORRECT, it needs to determine that behavior.
> 
The input to H(D,D) does not provide the means for H to determine
the behavior of D(D).

I keep asking you to show all of the steps of how H(D,D) determines
the behavior of D(D) from its input and you dodge because you know
that I am correct.

H(D,D) is not told about the behavior of D(D) and you cannot show
otherwise with any sequence of steps of correct reasoning.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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#107076 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten

Fromjoes <noreply@example.com>
Date2024-06-13 17:19 +0000
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten
Message-ID<v4f9mt$3smqv$3@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#107064
Am Thu, 13 Jun 2024 08:37:29 -0500 schrieb olcott:
> On 6/13/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/13/24 12:06 AM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/12/2024 10:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/24 11:26 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/2024 10:08 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/12/24 10:48 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 9:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 10:25 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 9:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 9:50 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 8:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:

> The input to H(D,D) does not provide the means for H to determine the
> behavior of D(D).
Oh, sure it does. All the info is right there! Just add simulation!
You do know how that works, right?

> I keep asking you to show all of the steps of how H(D,D) determines the
> behavior of D(D) from its input and you dodge because you know that I am
> correct.
You are correct: your H does not determine the behaviour of D(D).
Why does it arbitrarily decide to halt instead of continuing the 
simulation?

> H(D,D) is not told about the behavior of D(D) and you cannot show
> otherwise with any sequence of steps of correct reasoning.
H is told about D and can simulate what it does. That's why we're looking
for a machine that finds that out for every machine.

-- 
joes

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#107086 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten

FromRichard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Date2024-06-13 22:19 -0400
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten
Message-ID<v4g9c3$3tn6q$3@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#107064
On 6/13/24 9:37 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/13/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/13/24 12:06 AM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/12/2024 10:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/24 11:26 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/2024 10:08 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/12/24 10:48 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 9:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 10:25 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 9:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 9:50 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 8:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT IS ASSUMED.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION THAT IS BEING ASKED.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you say that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you not understand the meaning of the words "Halt Decider"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> H must derive the question that it is being asked by computing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the mapping from its finite string input to the behavior 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> specified
>>>>>>>>>>>>> by this finite string input.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So, Definitions don't mean anything?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Halt deciders are not being asked English questions nitwit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But the formal question can be translated into English.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And the PROBLEM statements can be written in English as a 
>>>>>>>>>> requirements doecument.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Halt Deciders" don't need to "understand" the question, they 
>>>>>>>>>> just do what they are programmed to do. 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> H can only see that it must report on D correctly simulated by H.
>>>>>>>>> No one ever tells it anything different than this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> H doesn't need to "know" what it is doing. It PROGRAMMER does.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The input to H(D,D) does not tell H to look at the behavior of D(D).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are currently too ignorant to understand this mainly because
>>>>>>> you don't want to bother to seriously consider that I may be 
>>>>>>> correct.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course the input doesn't tell it that. The problem description 
>>>>>> tells the programmer that is what he was supposed to do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The INPUT must tell the program what the question is.
>>>>> What does the expression: COMPUTE THE MAPPING FROM INPUTS
>>>>> mean to you in your own words?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Of course not.
>>>>
>>>> Most programs just read in data, and do the operation they were 
>>>> programmed to do on the data.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Simplistic.
>>> H must be able to objectively determine the exact behavior
>>> that it is to report on and no one ever told it about D(D).
>>> They only told it about D correctly simulated by H.
>>
>> No, it does not.
>>
>> To be CORRECT, it needs to determine that behavior.
>>
> The input to H(D,D) does not provide the means for H to determine
> the behavior of D(D).

So? Why does it need to, that is the job of H to figure out,

The INPUT does DEFINE the correct answer, but not in a method that H can 
use itself.

> 
> I keep asking you to show all of the steps of how H(D,D) determines
> the behavior of D(D) from its input and you dodge because you know
> that I am correct.

And why do I need to, because that isn't the question.

I guess you are just admitting you accept a proble to solve, and are 
stuck and are trying to get others to do it for yoiu.

> 
> H(D,D) is not told about the behavior of D(D) and you cannot show
> otherwise with any sequence of steps of correct reasoning.
> 

But it is, just not in a computable manner, the behavior of the input to 
H(D,D) is EXACTLY the behavor of UTM(D,D).

Now, the problem is that H had to be written BEFORE D was (as the code 
for D is dependent on H) since H is making a claim to handle "all 
comers" (i.e. answer for EVERY input). This means the input program can 
use a copy of the decider to compute what it will answer and then do the 
opposite.

This just shows that the problem does turn out to be uncomputable, 
because the power of the computation system grows faster than the 
ability to decide on the computation.

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#107087 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-13 21:22 -0500
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten
Message-ID<v4g9hf$2mnuk$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107086
On 6/13/2024 9:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/13/24 9:37 AM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/13/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/13/24 12:06 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/2024 10:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/24 11:26 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 10:08 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 10:48 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 9:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 10:25 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 9:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 9:50 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 8:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT IS ASSUMED.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION THAT IS BEING ASKED.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you say that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you not understand the meaning of the words "Halt Decider"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H must derive the question that it is being asked by 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the mapping from its finite string input to the behavior 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specified
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by this finite string input.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, Definitions don't mean anything?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Halt deciders are not being asked English questions nitwit.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But the formal question can be translated into English.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And the PROBLEM statements can be written in English as a 
>>>>>>>>>>> requirements doecument.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Halt Deciders" don't need to "understand" the question, they 
>>>>>>>>>>> just do what they are programmed to do. 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> H can only see that it must report on D correctly simulated by H.
>>>>>>>>>> No one ever tells it anything different than this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> H doesn't need to "know" what it is doing. It PROGRAMMER does.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The input to H(D,D) does not tell H to look at the behavior of 
>>>>>>>> D(D).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are currently too ignorant to understand this mainly because
>>>>>>>> you don't want to bother to seriously consider that I may be 
>>>>>>>> correct.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course the input doesn't tell it that. The problem description 
>>>>>>> tells the programmer that is what he was supposed to do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The INPUT must tell the program what the question is.
>>>>>> What does the expression: COMPUTE THE MAPPING FROM INPUTS
>>>>>> mean to you in your own words?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most programs just read in data, and do the operation they were 
>>>>> programmed to do on the data.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Simplistic.
>>>> H must be able to objectively determine the exact behavior
>>>> that it is to report on and no one ever told it about D(D).
>>>> They only told it about D correctly simulated by H.
>>>
>>> No, it does not.
>>>
>>> To be CORRECT, it needs to determine that behavior.
>>>
>> The input to H(D,D) does not provide the means for H to determine
>> the behavior of D(D).
> 
> So? Why does it need to, that is the job of H to figure out,
> 
> The INPUT does DEFINE the correct answer, but not in a method that H can 
> use itself.
> 
>>
>> I keep asking you to show all of the steps of how H(D,D) determines
>> the behavior of D(D) from its input and you dodge because you know
>> that I am correct.
> 
> And why do I need to, because that isn't the question.
> 
> I guess you are just admitting you accept a proble to solve, and are 
> stuck and are trying to get others to do it for yoiu.
> 
>>
>> H(D,D) is not told about the behavior of D(D) and you cannot show
>> otherwise with any sequence of steps of correct reasoning.
>>
> 
> But it is, just not in a computable manner, the behavior of the input to 
> H(D,D) is EXACTLY the behavor of UTM(D,D).
> 
> Now, the problem is that H had to be written BEFORE D was (as the code 
> for D is dependent on H) since H is making a claim to handle "all 
> comers" (i.e. answer for EVERY input). This means the input program can 
> use a copy of the decider to compute what it will answer and then do the 
> opposite.
> 
> This just shows that the problem does turn out to be uncomputable, 
> because the power of the computation system grows faster than the 
> ability to decide on the computation.

See my prior reply

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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#107098 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten

FromRichard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Date2024-06-13 23:06 -0400
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten
Message-ID<v4gc3j$3tn6r$7@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#107087
On 6/13/24 10:22 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/13/2024 9:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/13/24 9:37 AM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/13/2024 6:31 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/13/24 12:06 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/2024 10:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/12/24 11:26 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 10:08 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 10:48 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 9:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 10:25 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 9:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 9:50 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 8:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT IS ASSUMED.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION THAT IS BEING ASKED.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you say that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you not understand the meaning of the words "Halt 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Decider"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H must derive the question that it is being asked by 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the mapping from its finite string input to the behavior 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specified
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by this finite string input.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, Definitions don't mean anything?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Halt deciders are not being asked English questions nitwit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But the formal question can be translated into English.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And the PROBLEM statements can be written in English as a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> requirements doecument.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Halt Deciders" don't need to "understand" the question, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> they just do what they are programmed to do. 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> H can only see that it must report on D correctly simulated 
>>>>>>>>>>> by H.
>>>>>>>>>>> No one ever tells it anything different than this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> H doesn't need to "know" what it is doing. It PROGRAMMER does.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The input to H(D,D) does not tell H to look at the behavior of 
>>>>>>>>> D(D).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are currently too ignorant to understand this mainly because
>>>>>>>>> you don't want to bother to seriously consider that I may be 
>>>>>>>>> correct.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course the input doesn't tell it that. The problem 
>>>>>>>> description tells the programmer that is what he was supposed to 
>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The INPUT must tell the program what the question is.
>>>>>>> What does the expression: COMPUTE THE MAPPING FROM INPUTS
>>>>>>> mean to you in your own words?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most programs just read in data, and do the operation they were 
>>>>>> programmed to do on the data.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Simplistic.
>>>>> H must be able to objectively determine the exact behavior
>>>>> that it is to report on and no one ever told it about D(D).
>>>>> They only told it about D correctly simulated by H.
>>>>
>>>> No, it does not.
>>>>
>>>> To be CORRECT, it needs to determine that behavior.
>>>>
>>> The input to H(D,D) does not provide the means for H to determine
>>> the behavior of D(D).
>>
>> So? Why does it need to, that is the job of H to figure out,
>>
>> The INPUT does DEFINE the correct answer, but not in a method that H 
>> can use itself.
>>
>>>
>>> I keep asking you to show all of the steps of how H(D,D) determines
>>> the behavior of D(D) from its input and you dodge because you know
>>> that I am correct.
>>
>> And why do I need to, because that isn't the question.
>>
>> I guess you are just admitting you accept a proble to solve, and are 
>> stuck and are trying to get others to do it for yoiu.
>>
>>>
>>> H(D,D) is not told about the behavior of D(D) and you cannot show
>>> otherwise with any sequence of steps of correct reasoning.
>>>
>>
>> But it is, just not in a computable manner, the behavior of the input 
>> to H(D,D) is EXACTLY the behavor of UTM(D,D).
>>
>> Now, the problem is that H had to be written BEFORE D was (as the code 
>> for D is dependent on H) since H is making a claim to handle "all 
>> comers" (i.e. answer for EVERY input). This means the input program 
>> can use a copy of the decider to compute what it will answer and then 
>> do the opposite.
>>
>> This just shows that the problem does turn out to be uncomputable, 
>> because the power of the computation system grows faster than the 
>> ability to decide on the computation.
> 
> See my prior reply
> 

If you mean the one in this thread about an hour or so ago, that doesn't 
actualy prove your goal that H can be a correct Halt Decider, just that 
you don't understand what that means.

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#107048 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten

Fromjoes <noreply@example.com>
Date2024-06-13 08:12 +0000
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten
Message-ID<v4e9l5$3rbs4$2@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#107019
Am Wed, 12 Jun 2024 20:50:42 -0500 schrieb olcott:
> On 6/12/2024 8:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/12/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/12/2024 7:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/24 8:37 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/12/24 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 12:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:

>>>>>>>> Why, because the claim isn't about the simulate by H, but the
>>>>>>>> behavior of the difectly executed D(D), or its simulation by a
>>>>>>>> UTM.
>>>>>>> H(D,D) must compute the mapping from its finite string input
>>>>>>> transforming the finite string of its input into the behavior that
>>>>>>> it specifies using finite string transformation rules.
And give the right answer: does D(D) halt?
>>>>>> Yes, it only CAN do what it can compute, but what it MUST do is
>>>>>> answer the question posed to it, which might be impossible. And
>>>>>> that Question is about the behavior of the direct execution of the
>>>>>> machine represented by its input.
>>>>> *H is not even being asked that question*
Oh yes, it is. We want to know if D(D) halts.
>>>> So, H isn't a Halt Decider?
>>>> Because the question being asked of *ALL* halt deciders, is "Does the
>>>> machine/input described by its input halt when it is run?"
>>> THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT IS ASSUMED.
>>> THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION THAT IS BEING ASKED.
H answers the wrong question.
>> How do you say that?
>> Do you not understand the meaning of the words "Halt Decider"?

>>> H must derive the question that it is being asked by computing the
>>> mapping from its finite string input to the behavior specified by this
>>> finite string input.
>> So, Definitions don't mean anything?
> Halt deciders are not being asked English questions nitwit.
Nitwit. It can't derive the answer.

>>> When it does this it does not end up with the behavior of the directly
>>> executed D(D).
>> Which just means it fails to do what it must to be a Halt decider.
> H must compute question that it is being asked.
Which is "does D(D) halt?", not "can I simulate this?".

> The question that H computes IS NOT THE BEHAVIOR OF D(D). IT DOES NOT
> MATTER HOW MUCH IT IS SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.
Then H is not the halt decider you are looking for.

-- 
joes

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#107061 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transformations

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-13 08:07 -0500
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transformations
Message-ID<v4equn$28g4v$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107048
On 6/13/2024 3:12 AM, joes wrote:
> Am Wed, 12 Jun 2024 20:50:42 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>> On 6/12/2024 8:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/12/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/2024 7:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/24 8:37 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 12:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> 
>>>>>>>>> Why, because the claim isn't about the simulate by H, but the
>>>>>>>>> behavior of the difectly executed D(D), or its simulation by a
>>>>>>>>> UTM.
>>>>>>>> H(D,D) must compute the mapping from its finite string input
>>>>>>>> transforming the finite string of its input into the behavior that
>>>>>>>> it specifies using finite string transformation rules.
> And give the right answer: does D(D) halt?
>>>>>>> Yes, it only CAN do what it can compute, but what it MUST do is
>>>>>>> answer the question posed to it, which might be impossible. And
>>>>>>> that Question is about the behavior of the direct execution of the
>>>>>>> machine represented by its input.
>>>>>> *H is not even being asked that question*
> Oh yes, it is. We want to know if D(D) halts.
>>>>> So, H isn't a Halt Decider?
>>>>> Because the question being asked of *ALL* halt deciders, is "Does the
>>>>> machine/input described by its input halt when it is run?"
>>>> THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT IS ASSUMED.
>>>> THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION THAT IS BEING ASKED.
> H answers the wrong question.
>>> How do you say that?
>>> Do you not understand the meaning of the words "Halt Decider"?
> 
>>>> H must derive the question that it is being asked by computing the
>>>> mapping from its finite string input to the behavior specified by this
>>>> finite string input.
>>> So, Definitions don't mean anything?
>> Halt deciders are not being asked English questions nitwit.
> Nitwit. It can't derive the answer.
> 
>>>> When it does this it does not end up with the behavior of the directly
>>>> executed D(D).
>>> Which just means it fails to do what it must to be a Halt decider.
>> H must compute question that it is being asked.
> Which is "does D(D) halt?", not "can I simulate this?".
> 

Halt deciders do not generally understand English, your assumption
that they do is ridiculously false.

H(D,D) computes the mapping from its finite string input to derive
the behavior that it must report on.

int sum(int x, int y) {return x + y; }
sum(3,4) must provide the sum of 3+4 EVEN IF YOU EXPECT OTHERWISE.

H(D,D) must provide that halt status of D correctly simulated by H
EVEN IF YOU EXPECT OTHERWISE.

You may believe in your mind that H(D,D) must report on the behavior
of D(D) yet H(D,D) does not share this belief.

There is no path from the input to H(D,D) by applying finite string
transformation rules to the input to derived the behavior of D(D).

>> The question that H computes IS NOT THE BEHAVIOR OF D(D). IT DOES NOT
>> MATTER HOW MUCH IT IS SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.
> Then H is not the halt decider you are looking for.
> 

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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#107074 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transfermentations

Fromjoes <noreply@example.com>
Date2024-06-13 17:06 +0000
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transfermentations
Message-ID<v4f8uj$3smqv$1@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#107061
Am Thu, 13 Jun 2024 08:07:35 -0500 schrieb olcott:
> On 6/13/2024 3:12 AM, joes wrote:
>> Am Wed, 12 Jun 2024 20:50:42 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>> On 6/12/2024 8:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/2024 7:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/12/24 8:37 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 12:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:

>>>>>>>>> H(D,D) must compute the mapping from its finite string input
>>>>>>>>> transforming the finite string of its input into the behavior
>>>>>>>>> that it specifies using finite string transformation rules.
>> And give the right answer: does D(D) halt?

>>>>>>>> that Question is about the behavior of the direct execution of
>>>>>>>> the machine represented by its input.
>>>>>>> *H is not even being asked that question*
>> Oh yes, it is. We want to know if D(D) halts.
Why would we ask a machine "What is your own result?"?

>>>>>> Because the question being asked of *ALL* halt deciders, is "Does
>>>>>> the machine/input described by its input halt when it is run?"
>>>>> THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION THAT IS BEING ASKED.
>> H answers the wrong question.
It answers "I give this result, because I say so". The opposite were
equally valid.

>>>>> H must derive the question that it is being asked by computing the
>>>>> mapping from its finite string input to the behavior specified by
>>>>> this finite string input.
>>>> So, Definitions don't mean anything?
>>> Halt deciders are not being asked English questions nitwit.
>> Nitwit. It can't derive the answer.

>>> H must compute question that it is being asked.
If H doesn't, it is not what we are looking for.
>> Which is "does D(D) halt?", not "can I simulate this?".
> Halt deciders do not generally understand English, your assumption that
> they do is ridiculously false.
Of course not. Ridiculous is your assumption that I wasn't talking about
its specification.

> H(D,D) computes the mapping from its finite string input to derive the
> behavior that it must report on.
The behaviour of D(D) itself doesn't change by whatever H does.

> int sum(int x, int y) {return x + y; }
> sum(3,4) must provide the sum of 3+4 EVEN IF YOU EXPECT OTHERWISE.
Yes, and sum {return x*y} is a faulty implementation. Why would I expect
otherwise?

> H(D,D) must provide that halt status of D correctly simulated by H EVEN
> IF YOU EXPECT OTHERWISE.
It must provide the halt status, whether simulated by anything or not.
A simulation that changes it is called wrong.

> You may believe in your mind that H(D,D) must report on the behavior of
> D(D) yet H(D,D) does not share this belief.
Then I don't care about H. I want my H to report on D(D).

> There is no path from the input to H(D,D) by applying finite string
> transformation rules to the input to derived the behavior of D(D).
Which is why a halt decider is impossible.

>>> The question that H computes IS NOT THE BEHAVIOR OF D(D). IT DOES NOT
>>> MATTER HOW MUCH IT IS SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.
>> Then H is not the halt decider you are looking for.
The H that violates the specification is not the true H.

-- 
joes

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#107080 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transfermentations

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-13 13:07 -0500
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transfermentations
Message-ID<v4fcgf$2co81$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107074
On 6/13/2024 12:06 PM, joes wrote:
> Am Thu, 13 Jun 2024 08:07:35 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>> On 6/13/2024 3:12 AM, joes wrote:
>>> Am Wed, 12 Jun 2024 20:50:42 -0500 schrieb olcott:
> 
>> There is no path from the input to H(D,D) by applying finite string
>> transformation rules to the input to derived the behavior of D(D).
 >
> Which is why a halt decider is impossible.
> 
I am going to stop replying to your posts your disrespect
for me in anchored in your own ignorance.


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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#107089 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transfermentations

FromRichard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Date2024-06-13 22:30 -0400
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transfermentations
Message-ID<v4g9vg$3tn6r$2@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#107080
On 6/13/24 2:07 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/13/2024 12:06 PM, joes wrote:
>> Am Thu, 13 Jun 2024 08:07:35 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>> On 6/13/2024 3:12 AM, joes wrote:
>>>> Am Wed, 12 Jun 2024 20:50:42 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>
>>> There is no path from the input to H(D,D) by applying finite string
>>> transformation rules to the input to derived the behavior of D(D).
>  >
>> Which is why a halt decider is impossible.
>>
> I am going to stop replying to your posts your disrespect
> for me in anchored in your own ignorance.
> 
> 

No, you stop replying to people who make it obvious that YOU are just 
ignorant.

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#107092 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transfermentations

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-13 21:31 -0500
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transfermentations
Message-ID<v4ga2m$2mq4h$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107089
On 6/13/2024 9:30 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/13/24 2:07 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/13/2024 12:06 PM, joes wrote:
>>> Am Thu, 13 Jun 2024 08:07:35 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>> On 6/13/2024 3:12 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>> Am Wed, 12 Jun 2024 20:50:42 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>
>>>> There is no path from the input to H(D,D) by applying finite string
>>>> transformation rules to the input to derived the behavior of D(D).
>>  >
>>> Which is why a halt decider is impossible.
>>>
>> I am going to stop replying to your posts your disrespect
>> for me in anchored in your own ignorance.
>>
>>
> 
> No, you stop replying to people who make it obvious that YOU are just 
> ignorant.

When he linked to crackpots I stop looking at what he says.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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#107088 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transformations

FromRichard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Date2024-06-13 22:27 -0400
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transformations
Message-ID<v4g9qn$3tn6r$1@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#107061
On 6/13/24 9:07 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/13/2024 3:12 AM, joes wrote:
>> Am Wed, 12 Jun 2024 20:50:42 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>> On 6/12/2024 8:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/2024 7:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/12/24 8:37 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 12:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why, because the claim isn't about the simulate by H, but the
>>>>>>>>>> behavior of the difectly executed D(D), or its simulation by a
>>>>>>>>>> UTM.
>>>>>>>>> H(D,D) must compute the mapping from its finite string input
>>>>>>>>> transforming the finite string of its input into the behavior that
>>>>>>>>> it specifies using finite string transformation rules.
>> And give the right answer: does D(D) halt?
>>>>>>>> Yes, it only CAN do what it can compute, but what it MUST do is
>>>>>>>> answer the question posed to it, which might be impossible. And
>>>>>>>> that Question is about the behavior of the direct execution of the
>>>>>>>> machine represented by its input.
>>>>>>> *H is not even being asked that question*
>> Oh yes, it is. We want to know if D(D) halts.
>>>>>> So, H isn't a Halt Decider?
>>>>>> Because the question being asked of *ALL* halt deciders, is "Does the
>>>>>> machine/input described by its input halt when it is run?"
>>>>> THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT IS ASSUMED.
>>>>> THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION THAT IS BEING ASKED.
>> H answers the wrong question.
>>>> How do you say that?
>>>> Do you not understand the meaning of the words "Halt Decider"?
>>
>>>>> H must derive the question that it is being asked by computing the
>>>>> mapping from its finite string input to the behavior specified by this
>>>>> finite string input.
>>>> So, Definitions don't mean anything?
>>> Halt deciders are not being asked English questions nitwit.
>> Nitwit. It can't derive the answer.
>>
>>>>> When it does this it does not end up with the behavior of the directly
>>>>> executed D(D).
>>>> Which just means it fails to do what it must to be a Halt decider.
>>> H must compute question that it is being asked.
>> Which is "does D(D) halt?", not "can I simulate this?".
>>
> 
> Halt deciders do not generally understand English, your assumption
> that they do is ridiculously false.

No, but there programmer can, and that is who created H.

> 
> H(D,D) computes the mapping from its finite string input to derive
> the behavior that it must report on.

Right, which *IS* (by the definition of a Halt decider) the behavior of 
the directly executed machine the input represents.

> 
> int sum(int x, int y) {return x + y; }
> sum(3,4) must provide the sum of 3+4 EVEN IF YOU EXPECT OTHERWISE.

Right, because that *IS* the definition of summig.

So, YOU trying to claim that H(D,D) can report on the "correct 
simulation by H" is EXACTLY like saying sum(3,4) can report on 5+6.

> 
> H(D,D) must provide that halt status of D correctly simulated by H
> EVEN IF YOU EXPECT OTHERWISE.

WHere do you get that form?

It seems, from the POOP up your ass.

I guess you are just admitting that you can't understand the English 
statement of the problem

> 
> You may believe in your mind that H(D,D) must report on the behavior
> of D(D) yet H(D,D) does not share this belief.

H doesn't "believe" anything, it is just an antomaton and does what it 
is programmed to do. Since you were the programmer, I guess you are just 
admitting you do understand the definition of the problem you started 20 
years ago.

So sorry you wasted so much time.

> 
> There is no path from the input to H(D,D) by applying finite string
> transformation rules to the input to derived the behavior of D(D).

So? Who said there had to be?

After all, the full question is does there exist such a path. So, you 
just statement that you agree with the statement you have been trying to 
disprove for so long.

Doesn't that feel a bit silly to you?

> 
>>> The question that H computes IS NOT THE BEHAVIOR OF D(D). IT DOES NOT
>>> MATTER HOW MUCH IT IS SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.
>> Then H is not the halt decider you are looking for.
>>
> 

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#107090 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transformations

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-13 21:30 -0500
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- finite sting transformations
Message-ID<v4ga0v$2mq4h$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107088
On 6/13/2024 9:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/13/24 9:07 AM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/13/2024 3:12 AM, joes wrote:
>>> Am Wed, 12 Jun 2024 20:50:42 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>> On 6/12/2024 8:36 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 7:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 8:37 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:45 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 7:25 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/24 12:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why, because the claim isn't about the simulate by H, but the
>>>>>>>>>>> behavior of the difectly executed D(D), or its simulation by a
>>>>>>>>>>> UTM.
>>>>>>>>>> H(D,D) must compute the mapping from its finite string input
>>>>>>>>>> transforming the finite string of its input into the behavior 
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> it specifies using finite string transformation rules.
>>> And give the right answer: does D(D) halt?
>>>>>>>>> Yes, it only CAN do what it can compute, but what it MUST do is
>>>>>>>>> answer the question posed to it, which might be impossible. And
>>>>>>>>> that Question is about the behavior of the direct execution of the
>>>>>>>>> machine represented by its input.
>>>>>>>> *H is not even being asked that question*
>>> Oh yes, it is. We want to know if D(D) halts.
>>>>>>> So, H isn't a Halt Decider?
>>>>>>> Because the question being asked of *ALL* halt deciders, is "Does 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> machine/input described by its input halt when it is run?"
>>>>>> THAT IS THE QUESTION THAT IS ASSUMED.
>>>>>> THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION THAT IS BEING ASKED.
>>> H answers the wrong question.
>>>>> How do you say that?
>>>>> Do you not understand the meaning of the words "Halt Decider"?
>>>
>>>>>> H must derive the question that it is being asked by computing the
>>>>>> mapping from its finite string input to the behavior specified by 
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> finite string input.
>>>>> So, Definitions don't mean anything?
>>>> Halt deciders are not being asked English questions nitwit.
>>> Nitwit. It can't derive the answer.
>>>
>>>>>> When it does this it does not end up with the behavior of the 
>>>>>> directly
>>>>>> executed D(D).
>>>>> Which just means it fails to do what it must to be a Halt decider.
>>>> H must compute question that it is being asked.
>>> Which is "does D(D) halt?", not "can I simulate this?".
>>>
>>
>> Halt deciders do not generally understand English, your assumption
>> that they do is ridiculously false.
> 
> No, but there programmer can, and that is who created H.
> 
>>
>> H(D,D) computes the mapping from its finite string input to derive
>> the behavior that it must report on.
> 
> Right, which *IS* (by the definition of a Halt decider) the behavior of 
> the directly executed machine the input represents.
> 
>>
>> int sum(int x, int y) {return x + y; }
>> sum(3,4) must provide the sum of 3+4 EVEN IF YOU EXPECT OTHERWISE.
> 
> Right, because that *IS* the definition of summig.
> 
> So, YOU trying to claim that H(D,D) can report on the "correct 
> simulation by H" is EXACTLY like saying sum(3,4) can report on 5+6.
> 
>>
>> H(D,D) must provide that halt status of D correctly simulated by H
>> EVEN IF YOU EXPECT OTHERWISE.
> 
> WHere do you get that form?
> 
> It seems, from the POOP up your ass.
> 
> I guess you are just admitting that you can't understand the English 
> statement of the problem
> 
>>
>> You may believe in your mind that H(D,D) must report on the behavior
>> of D(D) yet H(D,D) does not share this belief.
> 
> H doesn't "believe" anything, it is just an antomaton and does what it 
> is programmed to do. Since you were the programmer, I guess you are just 
> admitting you do understand the definition of the problem you started 20 
> years ago.
> 
> So sorry you wasted so much time.
> 
>>
>> There is no path from the input to H(D,D) by applying finite string
>> transformation rules to the input to derived the behavior of D(D).
> 
> So? Who said there had to be?
> 
> After all, the full question is does there exist such a path. So, you 
> just statement that you agree with the statement you have been trying to 
> disprove for so long.
> 
> Doesn't that feel a bit silly to you?
> 
>>
>>>> The question that H computes IS NOT THE BEHAVIOR OF D(D). IT DOES NOT
>>>> MATTER HOW MUCH IT IS SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.
>>> Then H is not the halt decider you are looking for.
>>>
>>
> 

I am only going to respond to you here:
On 6/13/2024 8:39 PM, olcott wrote:


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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#107052 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten

Fromjoes <noreply@example.com>
Date2024-06-13 08:49 +0000
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten
Message-ID<v4ebr4$3rbs4$5@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#107002
Am Wed, 12 Jun 2024 18:25:14 -0500 schrieb olcott:
> On 6/12/2024 6:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/12/24 12:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/12/2024 6:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/11/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/11/2024 9:30 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/11/24 7:23 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/11/2024 5:47 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/11/24 1:12 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/11/2024 6:47 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/11/24 12:31 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/10/2024 10:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/10/24 10:06 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/10/2024 6:16 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/9/24 11:54 PM, olcott wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, I guess you are admitting that this means that "D
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correctly simulated by H" is NOT a possible equivalent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> statement for the behavior of the direct execution of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input as required by the Halting Problem, so you admit you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have been LYING every time you imply that it is.

>>>>>>> It turns out that by the generic definition of a decider what the
>>>>>>> directly executed D(D) does is not any of the business of H.
>>>>>> The problem is that you don't understand what a xxxx-decider means.

>>>> As I pointed out, there ARE finite-string transformations that do it,
>>>> that is a UTM.

>> Why, because the claim isn't about the simulate by H, but the behavior
>> of the difectly executed D(D), or its simulation by a UTM.
> H(D,D) must compute the mapping from its finite string input
> transforming [it] into the behavior that it
> specifies using finite string transformation rules.
> *H DOES NOT simply guess what you think it should do and do that*
It has a *specification* it must fulfill.

-- 
joes

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#107062 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-13 08:10 -0500
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten
Message-ID<v4er3t$28g4v$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107052
On 6/13/2024 3:49 AM, joes wrote:
> Am Wed, 12 Jun 2024 18:25:14 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>> On 6/12/2024 6:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/12/24 12:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/11/24 11:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/11/2024 9:30 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/11/24 7:23 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/11/2024 5:47 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/11/24 1:12 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/11/2024 6:47 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/11/24 12:31 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/10/2024 10:32 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/10/24 10:06 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/10/2024 6:16 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/9/24 11:54 PM, olcott wrote:
> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, I guess you are admitting that this means that "D
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correctly simulated by H" is NOT a possible equivalent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> statement for the behavior of the direct execution of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input as required by the Halting Problem, so you admit you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have been LYING every time you imply that it is.
> 
>>>>>>>> It turns out that by the generic definition of a decider what the
>>>>>>>> directly executed D(D) does is not any of the business of H.
>>>>>>> The problem is that you don't understand what a xxxx-decider means.
> 
>>>>> As I pointed out, there ARE finite-string transformations that do it,
>>>>> that is a UTM.
> 
>>> Why, because the claim isn't about the simulate by H, but the behavior
>>> of the difectly executed D(D), or its simulation by a UTM.
>> H(D,D) must compute the mapping from its finite string input
>> transforming [it] into the behavior that it
>> specifies using finite string transformation rules.
>> *H DOES NOT simply guess what you think it should do and do that*
> It has a *specification* it must fulfill.
> 

The specification is only in your own mind and cannot be encoded
as a program/input pair.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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#107066 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten

FromAlan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Date2024-06-13 14:35 +0000
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten
Message-ID<v4f033$260h$1@news.muc.de>
In reply to#107062
[ Followup-To: set ]

In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/13/2024 3:49 AM, joes wrote:
>> Am Wed, 12 Jun 2024 18:25:14 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>> On 6/12/2024 6:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/24 12:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:

[ .... ]

>>>>>> As I pointed out, there ARE finite-string transformations that do it,
>>>>>> that is a UTM.

>>>> Why, because the claim isn't about the simulate by H, but the behavior
>>>> of the difectly executed D(D), or its simulation by a UTM.
>>> H(D,D) must compute the mapping from its finite string input
>>> transforming [it] into the behavior that it
>>> specifies using finite string transformation rules.
>>> *H DOES NOT simply guess what you think it should do and do that*
>> It has a *specification* it must fulfill.


> The specification is only in your own mind ....

The specification is "calculate whether a particular program with a
particular input halts".

> .... and cannot be encoded as a program/input pair. 

Indeed, not.  It's good to see you finally accepting the Halting Therem.

> -- 
> Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
> hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

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#107068 — Re: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2024-06-13 10:08 -0500
SubjectRe: D correctly simulated by H proved for THREE YEARS --- rewritten
Message-ID<v4f214$2akmh$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#107066
On 6/13/2024 9:35 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> [ Followup-To: set ]
> 
> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 6/13/2024 3:49 AM, joes wrote:
>>> Am Wed, 12 Jun 2024 18:25:14 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/12/24 12:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/12/2024 6:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> 
> [ .... ]
> 
>>>>>>> As I pointed out, there ARE finite-string transformations that do it,
>>>>>>> that is a UTM.
> 
>>>>> Why, because the claim isn't about the simulate by H, but the behavior
>>>>> of the difectly executed D(D), or its simulation by a UTM.
>>>> H(D,D) must compute the mapping from its finite string input
>>>> transforming [it] into the behavior that it
>>>> specifies using finite string transformation rules.
>>>> *H DOES NOT simply guess what you think it should do and do that*
>>> It has a *specification* it must fulfill.
> 
> 
>> The specification is only in your own mind ....
> 
> The specification is "calculate whether a particular program with a
> particular input halts".
> 

Yes that <is> what the textbooks say, none-the-less halt deciders
really cannot read textbooks. Instead they go by the behavior that
their input specifies.

All halt deciders compute the mapping from their inputs...

When we actually compute the mapping from the x86 machine language
finite string input to H(D,D) using the finite string transformation
rules specified by the semantics of the x86 programming language this
DOES NOT MAP TO THE BEHAVIOR OF D(D).

When I ask anyone to show the detailed steps of the mapping from
the machine language finite string of D to the behavior of D(D)
*THEY CHANGE THE SUBJECT BECAUSE THEY ALREADY KNOW THAT I AM CORRECT*

_D()
[00000cfc](01) 55          push ebp
[00000cfd](02) 8bec        mov ebp,esp
[00000cff](03) 8b4508      mov eax,[ebp+08]
[00000d02](01) 50          push eax       ; push D
[00000d03](03) 8b4d08      mov ecx,[ebp+08]
[00000d06](01) 51          push ecx       ; push D
[00000d07](05) e800feffff  call 00000b0c  ; call H
[00000d0c](03) 83c408      add esp,+08
[00000d0f](02) 85c0        test eax,eax
[00000d11](02) 7404        jz 00000d17
[00000d13](02) 33c0        xor eax,eax
[00000d15](02) eb05        jmp 00000d1c
[00000d17](05) b801000000  mov eax,00000001
[00000d1c](01) 5d          pop ebp
[00000d1d](01) c3          ret
Size in bytes:(0034) [00000d1d]

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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