Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.theory > #140926 > unrolled thread

Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA

Started byolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
First post2026-04-20 11:57 -0500
Last post2026-06-30 06:54 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 391 — 16 participants

Back to article view | Back to comp.theory


Contents

  Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-20 11:57 -0500
    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-21 09:41 +0300
      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-21 08:33 -0500
        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-22 10:19 +0300
          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-22 02:48 -0500
            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-22 11:19 +0300
              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-22 08:17 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-23 10:06 +0300
                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-23 08:49 -0500
                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-24 09:33 +0300
            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-04-22 17:06 -0600
              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-22 20:21 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-04-24 00:19 -0600
                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-24 21:12 -0700
                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-24 21:14 -0700
              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-04-22 18:25 -0700
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-04-22 18:29 -0700
              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-06-20 17:50 +0100
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-20 12:32 -0500
                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-06-27 07:53 +0100
                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-06-27 07:19 -0700
                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA polcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-27 09:50 -0500
                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-06-28 11:39 +0300
                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-28 21:52 -0500
                          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-06-29 09:14 +0300
                            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 08:29 -0500
                              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 11:05 -0600
                                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 13:16 -0500
                                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 12:29 -0600
                                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 14:08 -0500
                                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 13:33 -0600
                                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 14:47 -0500
                                          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 14:02 -0600
                                            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 15:06 -0500
                                              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 14:58 -0600
                                                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 16:10 -0500
                                                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 15:18 -0600
                                                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 16:39 -0500
                                                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 16:25 -0600
                                                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 17:38 -0500
                                                          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 17:03 -0600
                                                            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 18:36 -0500
                                                              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 17:45 -0600
                                                                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 19:37 -0500
                                                                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 19:01 -0600
                                                                    The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 20:19 -0500
                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 19:54 -0600
                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 21:17 -0500
                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 20:31 -0600
                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 21:42 -0500
                                                                              Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-29 20:49 -0600
                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 22:06 -0500
                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-30 15:18 -0600
                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 16:45 -0500
                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-30 15:56 -0600
                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 17:04 -0500
                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 22:34 -0400
                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 21:57 -0500
                                                                                              Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 23:02 -0400
                                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 22:10 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 23:17 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 22:49 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 00:01 -0400
                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 23:20 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 07:55 -0400
                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 09:40 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 13:33 -0400
                                                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 13:01 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 12:10 -0600
                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 13:20 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:34 -0400
                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 13:53 -0500
                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:57 -0400
                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:06 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 12:40 -0600
                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 13:50 -0500
                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 13:23 -0600
                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:47 -0500
                                                                                                                              Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 14:11 -0600
                                                                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:28 -0500
                                                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 14:50 -0600
                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:52 -0500
                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 15:10 -0600
                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 17:43 -0500
                                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 17:09 -0600
                                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 19:05 -0500
                                                                                                                                              Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 18:39 -0600
                                                                                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 20:01 -0500
                                                                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 19:23 -0600
                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 21:03 -0500
                                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 00:02 -0500
                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 08:45 -0600
                                                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 11:48 -0500
                                                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 11:17 -0600
                                                                                                                                                              Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 13:12 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 12:21 -0600
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 13:38 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 12:46 -0600
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 15:43 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 15:22 -0600
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 20:11 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 11:49 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 12:13 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-06 10:59 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 09:36 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-08 10:42 +0300
                                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:15 -0400
                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 13:21 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:35 -0400
                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 13:54 -0500
                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:59 -0400
                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:09 -0500
                                                                                                                              Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:19 -0400
                                                                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:44 -0500
                                                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:52 -0400
                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:23 -0500
                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 16:31 -0400
                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:42 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-07-01 19:18 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 12:45 -0600
                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 13:51 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:56 -0400
                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:02 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:05 -0400
                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 13:31 -0600
                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 14:53 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-01 14:13 -0600
                                                                                                                              Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:29 -0500
                                                                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 16:37 -0400
                                                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:50 -0500
                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 16:57 -0400
                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 16:04 -0500
                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 17:15 -0400
                                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 18:37 -0500
                                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 22:36 -0400
                                                                                                                                              Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 21:53 -0500
                                                                                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 23:00 -0400
                                                                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 22:17 -0500
                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 23:18 -0400
                                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 22:29 -0500
                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 23:34 -0400
                                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 22:37 -0500
                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 23:43 -0400
                                                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 22:59 -0500
                                                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 00:01 -0400
                                                                                                                                                              Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 23:03 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-02 09:57 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 09:51 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 12:04 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 11:52 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 12:55 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 13:13 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 14:22 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 14:33 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 15:52 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 15:53 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 16:54 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 16:12 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 17:23 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 16:40 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 17:59 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 17:13 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 18:32 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 17:35 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 18:47 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 17:53 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 18:59 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 18:49 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 20:03 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-03 12:22 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 10:36 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 11:50 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 11:52 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 13:10 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 13:10 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 14:18 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 13:36 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 14:40 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 12:47 -0600
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 17:37 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 16:51 -0600
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 20:52 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 21:58 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 21:05 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 22:19 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 21:37 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 22:43 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                                      The truth about the halting problem counter-example input olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 22:11 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The truth about the halting problem counter-example input dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 23:23 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The truth about the halting problem counter-example input Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 11:58 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: The truth about the halting problem counter-example input olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 12:16 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: The truth about the halting problem counter-example input Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-06 11:07 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: The truth about the halting problem counter-example input olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 10:18 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                                                Re: The truth about the halting problem counter-example input Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-08 10:45 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 10:48 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 11:58 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 13:07 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-06 11:11 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 10:27 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-08 10:48 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 10:46 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                              Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 11:55 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-06 11:24 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 10:30 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 09:23 -0700
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 11:57 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-08 10:55 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 20:10 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 20:11 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 21:02 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 22:18 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 10:43 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 11:52 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 13:04 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-06 11:28 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 14:27 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 13:45 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 14:53 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 15:35 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 16:59 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 10:57 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 10:55 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 12:01 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 13:10 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-06 11:37 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 10:33 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-08 10:59 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 14:08 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 15:12 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 11:00 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 12:03 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-06 11:55 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 10:38 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-08 11:09 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 10:41 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 08:38 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 09:40 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-06 12:00 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 10:39 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-08 11:14 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 10:37 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 08:32 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 09:37 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-06 12:06 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-06 12:03 +0300
                                                                                                  Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-30 21:31 -0600
                                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 23:17 -0500
                                                                                              Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 23:04 -0400
                                                                                                Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 22:11 -0500
                                                                                    Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 16:56 -0500
                                                                                      Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-30 16:06 -0600
                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 17:08 -0500
                                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 17:42 -0500
                                                                                          Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-06-30 16:51 -0600
                                                                                            Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 21:07 -0500
                                                                        Re: The simple essence of Proof Theoretic Semantics olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 21:26 -0500
                              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-06-30 11:18 +0300
                                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 08:58 -0500
                                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-01 10:24 +0300
                                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 10:16 -0500
                                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-02 09:55 +0300
                                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 09:49 -0500
                                          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-03 12:28 +0300
                                            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 10:38 -0500
                                              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 11:35 -0600
                                                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 13:20 -0500
                                                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 12:37 -0600
                                                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 15:13 -0500
                                                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-03 14:32 -0600
                                                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-03 20:08 -0500
                                                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 11:06 +0300
                                                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 12:07 -0500
                                                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 13:11 -0400
                                                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 16:01 -0500
                                                          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-06 12:25 +0300
                                                            Terms-of-the-art are Liars that violate the preexisting order of knowledge olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 10:54 -0500
                                                              Re: Terms-of-the-art are Liars that violate the preexisting order of knowledge Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-08 11:22 +0300
                                                            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 12:11 -0500
                                                              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-08 11:27 +0300
                                                        Terms-Of-The-Art are Liars olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 16:12 -0500
                                                          Re: Terms-Of-The-Art are Liars dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-04 17:30 -0400
                                                          Re: Terms-Of-The-Art are Liars Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-07-05 14:59 +0100
                                                            Re: Terms-Of-The-Art are Liars olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-05 11:23 -0500
                                                          Re: Terms-Of-The-Art are Liars dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-05 10:19 -0400
                                                            Re: Terms-Of-The-Art are Liars olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-05 11:29 -0500
                                                              Re: Terms-Of-The-Art are Liars dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2026-07-05 12:39 -0400
                                                                Re: Terms-Of-The-Art are Liars "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-05 13:09 -0700
                                                              Re: Terms-Of-The-Art are Liars Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-06 12:46 +0300
                                                                Re: Terms-Of-The-Art are Liars olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 12:39 -0500
                                                                  Re: Terms-Of-The-Art are Liars Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-08 11:38 +0300
                                                            Re: Terms-Of-The-Art are Liars "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-05 14:07 -0700
                                                          Re: Terms-Of-The-Art are Liars Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-06 12:38 +0300
                                                          Re: Terms-Of-The-Art are Liars dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-07-06 14:53 -0700
                                                            Re: Terms-Of-The-Art are Liars olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 17:01 -0500
                                                            Re: Terms-Of-The-Art are Liars "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-07 15:36 -0700
                                                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-06 12:17 +0300
                                                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 10:47 -0500
                                                          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-06 10:07 -0600
                                                            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 11:58 -0500
                                                              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-06 11:27 -0600
                                                                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 12:45 -0500
                                                                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-06 11:56 -0600
                                                                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 13:12 -0500
                                                                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-06 12:54 -0600
                                                                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 14:03 -0500
                                                                          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-06 14:08 -0600
                                                                            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 15:20 -0500
                                                                              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-06 15:13 -0600
                                                                                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 17:00 -0500
                                                                                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-06 16:18 -0600
                                                                                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 17:41 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-06 16:53 -0600
                                                                                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 17:58 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2026-07-06 17:39 -0600
                                                                                            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 19:01 -0500
                                                                                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 19:06 -0500
                                                                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-08 11:52 +0300
                                                                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-08 11:47 +0300
                                                              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-08 11:45 +0300
                                                          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-08 11:44 +0300
                                              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-04 11:04 +0300
                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-06-29 10:50 +0100
                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA polcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 08:01 -0500
    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Scott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com> - 2026-04-26 20:01 +0000
      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 15:54 -0500
        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2026-04-26 20:16 -0400
        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-27 12:30 +0300
          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-27 09:53 -0500
            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Scott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com> - 2026-04-27 19:15 +0000
              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-27 15:10 -0500
              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-04-27 21:03 +0000
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-27 16:57 -0500
                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-28 10:34 +0300
                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 07:18 -0500
                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-29 09:37 +0300
                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-29 09:17 -0500
                          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-30 10:55 +0300
                            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 07:01 -0500
                              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-05-01 11:24 +0300
                                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 09:54 -0500
                                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-05-02 11:04 +0300
                                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-02 07:36 -0500
                                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-05-03 10:56 +0300
                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-04-28 10:22 +0000
                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 06:14 -0500
                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-04-28 12:04 +0000
                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 07:14 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Scott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com> - 2026-04-27 22:01 +0000
                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-27 17:22 -0500
                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-28 11:10 +0300
                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 07:30 -0500
                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-04-29 10:11 +0300
                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-04-28 10:35 +0000
                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2026-04-28 16:21 +0100
                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2026-04-28 19:48 +0000
                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2026-04-29 16:34 +0100
                          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 09:19 +0800
                            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2026-04-30 17:16 +0100
                            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 15:10 -0700
                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Scott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com> - 2026-04-29 14:27 +0000
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-04-27 15:35 -0700
              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2026-05-01 21:17 +0200
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 14:38 -0500
                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Scott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com> - 2026-05-01 22:10 +0000
                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2026-05-02 16:26 +0200
                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-05-02 09:54 -0500
                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Scott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com> - 2026-05-02 18:47 +0000
                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-05-02 12:06 -0700
                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2026-05-06 21:37 +0200
                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA phoenix <j63840576@gmail.com> - 2026-05-06 13:48 -0600
                          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-05-06 12:59 -0700
                          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-06-30 16:10 +0100
                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Scott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com> - 2026-05-07 01:12 +0000
                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-07-04 16:31 +0100
                          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-07-05 15:52 +0100
                            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-07-05 17:31 +0100
                            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-05 11:33 -0500
                              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-05 12:56 -0700
                                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-05 15:25 -0500
                                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-05 14:30 -0700
                                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-05 16:45 -0500
                                      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-05 15:15 -0700
                                        Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-05 17:55 -0500
                                          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 09:16 -0700
                                            Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 11:54 -0500
                              Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-06 12:58 +0300
                                Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2026-07-06 12:49 -0500
                                  Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2026-07-08 12:00 +0300
                          Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-07-06 14:19 +0100
                    Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-05-02 20:56 -0700
      Re: Within Proof Theoretic Semantics Gödel's G has no meaning in PA Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2026-06-30 06:54 +0100

Page 19 of 20 — ← Prev page 1 … 17 18 [19] 20  Next page →


#141034

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2026-04-27 15:35 -0700
Message-ID<AXOdnbEGCOJdeXL0nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#141030
On 04/27/2026 02:03 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> [ Followup-To: set ]
>
> In sci.math Scott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>> On 2026-04-27, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> [...]
>
>>>>> On 4/26/2026 3:01 PM, Scott Hoge wrote:
>
>>>>>> [...]
>
>>>>>> The correct interpretation was, I argued, not "This sentence
>>>>>> is unprovable," but rather:
>
>>>>>> The following is unprovable (1):
>>>>>>    The following is unprovable (2):
>>>>>>     The following is unprovable (3):
>>>>>>      ...
>
>>> The directed graph of the evaluation sequence of G
>>> has a cycle preventing its evaluation from ever
>>> terminating.
>
>>> If you have no idea what directed graphs are you will
>>> never get this. If you always knew what directed graphs
>>> of evaluation sequences that contain cycles are then
>>> you rebuttal has always been pure dishonesty.
>
>> I learned what directed graphs were in high school.
>
>> It seems our views are somewhat in agreement, but my directed
>> graph looks like this:
>
>> (D1)
>> · ─→ · ─→ · ─→ · ─→ ...
>
> I strongly urge you to read and understand an actual proof of Gödel's
> incompleteness theorem[*].  There are no looping or endless directed
> graphs in these.  Such notions result from misunderstandings by those
> lacking formal training in mathematics.
>
> [*] I would suggest finding a second hand copy of "Gödel, Escher, Bach,
> an Eternal Golden Braid" by Douglas Hofstadter, published around 1978 or
> 1979.  A proof of the incompleteness theorem is a central theme of the
> book, which is witty and entertaining and well worth reading.
>
> Peter Olcott has never read and understood such a proof.  Although not
> particularly difficult, it is beyond his understanding.
>
> And please note, this theorem is _TRUE_.  It has been proven rigorously
> and verified by millions of students and academics over a very long time
> period.
>
> Peter Olcott doesn't like it any more than he doesn't understand it, so
> he pours scorn on the distinguished mathematicians of the past, falsely
> claiming it to be false.  I would urge you to be sceptical of _any_ so
> called "result" emanating from him.
>
> [ .... ]
>
>> -- Scott Hoge
>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno_machine

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#141066

FromJulio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name>
Date2026-05-01 21:17 +0200
Message-ID<10t2u7p$1hf24$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#141028
On 27/04/2026 21:15, Scott Hoge wrote:

> The formally abstracted sentence is closer in concept to "This
> sentence is unprovable."
The rendition "I am not provable" is informal, the very
self-reference is informal (so your diagrams).  OTOH, its
arithmetization cannot be circular (or even divergent) or
it's not arithmetic.

Try and read the whole parer: Gödel does give a semantics
(an interpretation), based on relations, and that semantics
is essential to reaching the conclusion he reaches, and
without circularity.

Have fun,

Julio

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#141067

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2026-05-01 14:38 -0500
Message-ID<10t2vf4$1lhef$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#141066
On 5/1/2026 2:17 PM, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
> On 27/04/2026 21:15, Scott Hoge wrote:
> 
>> The formally abstracted sentence is closer in concept to "This
>> sentence is unprovable."
> The rendition "I am not provable" is informal, the very
> self-reference is informal (so your diagrams).  OTOH, its
> arithmetization cannot be circular (or even divergent) or
> it's not arithmetic.
> 
> Try and read the whole parer: Gödel does give a semantics
> (an interpretation), based on relations, and that semantics
> is essential to reaching the conclusion he reaches, and
> without circularity.
> 
> Have fun,
> 
> Julio
> 

F ⊢ GF ↔ ¬ProvF(⌜GF⌝)
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/goedel-incompleteness/#FirIncTheCom

The above <is> an accepted simplification of Gödel's G.
The below <is> a correct Directed Graph of evaluation
sequence of this G. Do you know what a cycle is?

Olcott's Minimal Type Theory
G ↔ ¬Prov_PA(⌜G⌝)
Directed Graph of evaluation sequence
00 ↔               01 02
01 G
02 ¬               03
03 Prov_PA         04
04 Gödel_Number_of 01  // cycle



-- 
Copyright 2026 Olcott

My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
reliably computable for the entire body of knowledge.
The complete structure of this system is now defined.

This required establishing a new foundation

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#141072

FromScott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com>
Date2026-05-01 22:10 +0000
Message-ID<_w9JR.81647$kT.59546@fx16.ams4>
In reply to#141066
On 2026-05-01, Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> wrote:
> On 27/04/2026 21:15, Scott Hoge wrote:
>> The formally abstracted sentence is closer in concept to "This
>> sentence is unprovable."
>
> The rendition "I am not provable" is informal, the very
> self-reference is informal (so your diagrams).  OTOH, its
> arithmetization cannot be circular (or even divergent) or it's
> not arithmetic.
>
> Try and read the whole [paper]: Gödel does give a semantics (an
> interpretation), based on relations, and that semantics is
> essential to reaching the conclusion he reaches, and without
> circularity.

Admittedly, I haven't thoroughly perused (let alone memorized)
the entire paper. Committing it that well to memory would be an
ongoing project.

Yet nothing prevents us from /expanding/ the semantics given by
Gödel. What I call the /formally abstracted Gödel sentence/ is
not the same sentence that he proved undecidable. Rather than a
statement about its own Gödel encoding (which, as you correctly
note, /does/ avoid circularity), it is an abstraction from all
levels of encoding of all nestedly-encoded Gödel sentences.

As for whether such an abstracted sentence is /informal/, I
suppose this depends on how we classify an "informal sentence" in
the foundations of mathematics.

-- Scott Hoge

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#141092

FromJulio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name>
Date2026-05-02 16:26 +0200
Message-ID<10t51ji$26cn4$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#141072
On 02/05/2026 00:10, Scott Hoge wrote:

> Yet nothing prevents us from /expanding/ the semantics given by
> Gödel. What I call the /formally abstracted Gödel sentence/ is
> not the same sentence that he proved undecidable.
<snip>

Everything prevents us from doing that.  Besides that
interesting would a minimal such semantics, you should
rather consider what GIT is actually about: it is not a
logical investigation into some kind of extra-ordinary
statements, it is a mathematical investigation into the
limits of recursively axiomatised systems of arithmetic
(the systems we can run on a concrete computer, or those
that are needed in foundations), up to proving the
incompleteness of any such systems if they are consistent.
Indeed, Gödel's argument rather generalises as a form of
diagonalisation.

That said, I do find interesting that the argument has a
semantic component to it (contra widespread belief that
it is "purely syntactic"), and what that entails, e.g. as
to the validity(?) of any models in which the G-sentence
is false...  Still, as said, you'd have to keep in mind
what the argument is actually about.

Julio

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#141093

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2026-05-02 09:54 -0500
Message-ID<10t536d$282p2$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#141092
On 5/2/2026 9:26 AM, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
> On 02/05/2026 00:10, Scott Hoge wrote:
> 
>> Yet nothing prevents us from /expanding/ the semantics given by
>> Gödel. What I call the /formally abstracted Gödel sentence/ is
>> not the same sentence that he proved undecidable.
> <snip>
> 
> Everything prevents us from doing that.  

Model Theoretic Semantics has never been the way that
semantics actually works in reality.

Proof Theoretic Semantics accurately captures the inherent
truth that the entire body of knowledge expressed as finite
strings has always only been expressed as relations between
finite strings.

By the theory of simple types I mean the doctrine which
says that the objects of thought [expressed as finite strings]
... are divided into types, namely: individuals, properties of
individuals, relations between individuals, properties of such
relations, ... and that sentences of the form: " a has the
property φ ", " b bears the relation R to c ", etc. are
meaningless, if a, b, c, R, φ are not of types fitting together.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_type_theory#G%C3%B6del_1944

> Besides that
> interesting would a minimal such semantics, you should
> rather consider what GIT is actually about: it is not a
> logical investigation into some kind of extra-ordinary
> statements, it is a mathematical investigation into the
> limits of recursively axiomatised systems of arithmetic
> (the systems we can run on a concrete computer, or those
> that are needed in foundations), up to proving the
> incompleteness of any such systems if they are consistent.
> Indeed, Gödel's argument rather generalises as a form of
> diagonalisation.
> 
> That said, I do find interesting that the argument has a
> semantic component to it (contra widespread belief that
> it is "purely syntactic"), and what that entails, e.g. as
> to the validity(?) of any models in which the G-sentence
> is false...  Still, as said, you'd have to keep in mind
> what the argument is actually about.
> 
> Julio
> 


-- 
Copyright 2026 Olcott

My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
reliably computable for the entire body of knowledge.
The complete structure of this system is now defined.

This required establishing a new foundation

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#141097

FromScott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com>
Date2026-05-02 18:47 +0000
Message-ID<cFrJR.53508$qu9.44050@fx08.ams4>
In reply to#141092
On 2026-05-02, Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> wrote:
> On 02/05/2026 00:10, Scott Hoge wrote:
>
>> Yet nothing prevents us from /expanding/ the semantics given
>> by Gödel. What I call the /formally abstracted Gödel sentence/
>> is not the same sentence that he proved undecidable.
>>
>> [...]
>
> Everything prevents us from doing that.  Besides that
> interesting would a minimal such semantics, you should
> rather consider what GIT is actually about: it is not a
> logical investigation into some kind of extra-ordinary
> statements [...]

Theoretical physicist Roger Penrose has speculated that Gödel's
Incompleteness Theorem relates to both quantum mechanics and
consciousness. Based on the premise that consciousness depends on
grasping undecidable and uncomputable truths, his theory is
called Orchestrated Objective Reduction, or Orch-OR.

Orch-OR proposes that consciousness arises from wave function
collapse, and that it does so through attributes of the brain and
of its biological constitution. These attributes allow the brain
to transcend the limits of what a computer can do, which is where
Gödel's incompleteness enters into the theory.

> Indeed, Gödel's argument rather generalises as a form of
> diagonalisation.
>
> [...]

My view is that consciousness may require some kind of subjective
indeterminism, whether in the form of "freedom," "choice," or
"uncertainty," that permits the following characteristics:

1. Presence in the here-and-now.
2. Synthesis of a manifold of perception.
3. Undecidability of certain problems on the basis of "antinomy."
4. Thought regarding what /possibly/ may happen.

By "synthesis of a manifold," I mean the binding and
putting-together of multiple items of consciousness. I may see a
desk, a chair, a computer, and some flash drives all drawn
together in my field of vision. These presentations, or items of
consciousness, carry signification insofar as it is logically
possible for me to apprehend any one of them selectively. I may
nudge the chair, insert one of the flash drives, or turn on the
computer; freedom or uncertainty therefore seems tied to
manifoldness of presentation.

By "antinomy," I mean unsolvable questions about what happens
beyond the limits of sensibility, such as at the infinite.

In Cantor's theorem, we do not actually construct a diagonal.
Rather, we presuppose that we can enumerate a set, and then,
/purely on the grounds of possibility/, conceive a diagonalized
non-element. This links diagonalization to criterion (4) of
consciousness.

On the foregoing basis, we may conjecture that Penrose was in
some sense right about Orch-OR. Gödel's theorem provides us with
knowledge about the unknowability of what happens "at infinity"
in the nested sequence of Gödel sentences.

How this relates to what happens in the brain is another question
that Penrose attempted to answer on the basis of microtubules.
On the other hand, I think that /any/ physical phenomenon
resulting from amplification from the microscopic world via
self-reinforcing feedback loops may provide the link between
Gödel sentences and human consciousness.

-- Scott Hoge

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#141099

Fromdart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid>
Date2026-05-02 12:06 -0700
Message-ID<10t5hvt$2c8h3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#141097
On 5/2/26 11:47 AM, Scott Hoge wrote:
> On 2026-05-02, Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> wrote:
>> On 02/05/2026 00:10, Scott Hoge wrote:
>>
>>> Yet nothing prevents us from /expanding/ the semantics given
>>> by Gödel. What I call the /formally abstracted Gödel sentence/
>>> is not the same sentence that he proved undecidable.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>
>> Everything prevents us from doing that.  Besides that
>> interesting would a minimal such semantics, you should
>> rather consider what GIT is actually about: it is not a
>> logical investigation into some kind of extra-ordinary
>> statements [...]
> 
> Theoretical physicist Roger Penrose has speculated that Gödel's
> Incompleteness Theorem relates to both quantum mechanics and
> consciousness. Based on the premise that consciousness depends on
> grasping undecidable and uncomputable truths, his theory is

nah they aren't related

we're subject to the halting problem as much any computer is and this 
can be demonstrated by placing a conscious entity in place of the 
decider. penrose is misinformed there unfortunately.

> called Orchestrated Objective Reduction, or Orch-OR.

i really like his and hameroff's work on consciousnesses otherwise, i 
don't think tying it to incompleteness is necessary

> 
> Orch-OR proposes that consciousness arises from wave function
> collapse, and that it does so through attributes of the brain and
> of its biological constitution. These attributes allow the brain
> to transcend the limits of what a computer can do, which is where
> Gödel's incompleteness enters into the theory.
> 
>> Indeed, Gödel's argument rather generalises as a form of
>> diagonalisation.
>>
>> [...]
> 
> My view is that consciousness may require some kind of subjective
> indeterminism, whether in the form of "freedom," "choice," or
> "uncertainty," that permits the following characteristics:
> 
> 1. Presence in the here-and-now.
> 2. Synthesis of a manifold of perception.
> 3. Undecidability of certain problems on the basis of "antinomy."
> 4. Thought regarding what /possibly/ may happen.
> 
> By "synthesis of a manifold," I mean the binding and
> putting-together of multiple items of consciousness. I may see a
> desk, a chair, a computer, and some flash drives all drawn
> together in my field of vision. These presentations, or items of
> consciousness, carry signification insofar as it is logically
> possible for me to apprehend any one of them selectively. I may
> nudge the chair, insert one of the flash drives, or turn on the
> computer; freedom or uncertainty therefore seems tied to
> manifoldness of presentation.
> 
> By "antinomy," I mean unsolvable questions about what happens
> beyond the limits of sensibility, such as at the infinite.
> 
> In Cantor's theorem, we do not actually construct a diagonal.
> Rather, we presuppose that we can enumerate a set, and then,
> /purely on the grounds of possibility/, conceive a diagonalized
> non-element. This links diagonalization to criterion (4) of
> consciousness.
> 
> On the foregoing basis, we may conjecture that Penrose was in
> some sense right about Orch-OR. Gödel's theorem provides us with
> knowledge about the unknowability of what happens "at infinity"
> in the nested sequence of Gödel sentences.
> 
> How this relates to what happens in the brain is another question
> that Penrose attempted to answer on the basis of microtubules.
> On the other hand, I think that /any/ physical phenomenon
> resulting from amplification from the microscopic world via
> self-reinforcing feedback loops may provide the link between
> Gödel sentences and human consciousness.
> 
> -- Scott Hoge


-- 
arising us out of the computing dark ages,
please excuse my pseudo-pyscript,
~ the lil crank that could

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#141152

FromJulio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name>
Date2026-05-06 21:37 +0200
Message-ID<10tg5ah$1dvta$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#141097
On 02/05/2026 20:47, Scott Hoge wrote:

> In Cantor's theorem, we do not actually construct a diagonal.
> Rather, we presuppose that we can enumerate a set, and then,
> /purely on the grounds of possibility/, conceive a diagonalized
> non-element.

Nope, as explained and re-explained ad nauseam around here:
just the resident trolls won't get it.

Cantor's diagonal argument, the one with the binary sequences,
is indeed constructive: a definition of anti-diagonal of *any*
(infinite) list is provided, and the proof that the anti-diagonal
cannot be in the list is quite constructive.

(Namely, we don't need to say "assume ab abdsurdo that
an enumeration is given", we can just say "for *any* list,
we *construct* an element not in the list".)

Just look it up.  Here is my own rendition in Rocq:
<https://gist.github.com/jp-diegidio/eb05f6265c38b35c85853514ed46ab47>

> This links diagonalization to criterion (4) of consciousness.

Rather, and to sum up, it links diagonalisation to the limits
of physicalism...

HTH,

Julio

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#141154

Fromphoenix <j63840576@gmail.com>
Date2026-05-06 13:48 -0600
Message-ID<n61k90Fh012U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#141152
Julio Di Egidio wrote:
> On 02/05/2026 20:47, Scott Hoge wrote:
> 
>> In Cantor's theorem, we do not actually construct a diagonal.
>> Rather, we presuppose that we can enumerate a set, and then,
>> /purely on the grounds of possibility/, conceive a diagonalized
>> non-element.
> 
> Nope, as explained and re-explained ad nauseam around here:
> just the resident trolls won't get it.
> 
> Cantor's diagonal argument, the one with the binary sequences,
> is indeed constructive: a definition of anti-diagonal of *any*
> (infinite) list is provided, and the proof that the anti-diagonal
> cannot be in the list is quite constructive.
> 
> (Namely, we don't need to say "assume ab abdsurdo that
> an enumeration is given", we can just say "for *any* list,
> we *construct* an element not in the list".)
> 
> Just look it up.  Here is my own rendition in Rocq:
> <https://gist.github.com/jp-diegidio/eb05f6265c38b35c85853514ed46ab47>
> 
>> This links diagonalization to criterion (4) of consciousness.
> 
> Rather, and to sum up, it links diagonalisation to the limits
> of physicalism...
> 
> HTH,
> 
> Julio
> 

I guess my question is this: If the diagonal sequence is inadequate, 
just what exactly is Cantor attempting to represent with the diagonal 
sequence at all?

-- 
War in the east
War in the west
War up north
War down south
War War

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#141155

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2026-05-06 12:59 -0700
Message-ID<Jm2dneEl3K0CAGb0nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#141154
On 05/06/2026 12:48 PM, phoenix wrote:
> Julio Di Egidio wrote:
>> On 02/05/2026 20:47, Scott Hoge wrote:
>>
>>> In Cantor's theorem, we do not actually construct a diagonal.
>>> Rather, we presuppose that we can enumerate a set, and then,
>>> /purely on the grounds of possibility/, conceive a diagonalized
>>> non-element.
>>
>> Nope, as explained and re-explained ad nauseam around here:
>> just the resident trolls won't get it.
>>
>> Cantor's diagonal argument, the one with the binary sequences,
>> is indeed constructive: a definition of anti-diagonal of *any*
>> (infinite) list is provided, and the proof that the anti-diagonal
>> cannot be in the list is quite constructive.
>>
>> (Namely, we don't need to say "assume ab abdsurdo that
>> an enumeration is given", we can just say "for *any* list,
>> we *construct* an element not in the list".)
>>
>> Just look it up.  Here is my own rendition in Rocq:
>> <https://gist.github.com/jp-diegidio/eb05f6265c38b35c85853514ed46ab47>
>>
>>> This links diagonalization to criterion (4) of consciousness.
>>
>> Rather, and to sum up, it links diagonalisation to the limits
>> of physicalism...
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> Julio
>>
>
> I guess my question is this: If the diagonal sequence is inadequate,
> just what exactly is Cantor attempting to represent with the diagonal
> sequence at all?
>

Maybe you should ask duBois-Reymond who Cantor cribbed it from,
though accounts of the anti-diagonal are as old as making tables,
then the nested-intervals idea is since the Pythagoreans who
though made an account that the same would go for the rationals,
then Cantor is acribed an "m-w" proof, though that would probably
enough be Dirichlet's, for pigeonhole-principle.

Saying that usually the account of anti-diagonalization is a proof
by contradiction so it's non-constructive, is pretty usual.

Then, getting into accounts otherwise of "quantifying over the
universe" or the usual notions of "equivalence classes" themselves
gets into class/set distinction, is about the domain of discourse
of the universe of mathematical objects, this was a bit too much
for Cantor to bear, though, his paradox or Cantor's paradox is
the usual idea that theories with universes (or rather, "a" universe,
which by definition makes sense only that way) make counter-examples.

Then the powerset-theorem ends up just looking like grounds for
increment itself and why Peano's integers follow from that instead
of being "axiomatized", in what's a "constructive" account.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#142180

FromTristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk>
Date2026-06-30 16:10 +0100
Message-ID<1120ma1$160pq$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#141154
On 06/05/2026 20:48, phoenix wrote:

> I guess my question is this: If the diagonal sequence is inadequate,
> just what exactly is Cantor attempting to represent with the diagonal
> sequence at all?

The outline is that the argument involves showing that /each/ and
/every/ sequence of /all/ the reals in [0,1) (should there be any) can
be mapped by a function to a real in [0,1) - perhaps a different one for
each sequence - that could not have been in the sequence it was
generated from. Thereby one shows that there is no sequence of /all/ the
reals in [0,1) - a solution and the only solution.

It is usually taught as "write a list of all the reals and then..."
which is useless. It is usually also taught with steps missing since the
formalisation of reals and limits that we trust today wasn't available
to Cantor so his proof doesn't involve them.

If someone were to bother making what would be a valid proof today
instead of what would have been called a proof back /then/ they would
use theorems about limits and either a constructive definition of the
reals or a constructive definition of a constraint on constructions to
those that define the reals (as they are conceived rather than later
constructively explicated).

-- 
Tristan Wibberley

The message body is Copyright (C) 2026 Tristan Wibberley except
citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#141157

FromScott Hoge <nospam@nospam.com>
Date2026-05-07 01:12 +0000
Message-ID<8GRKR.193217$wA9.119953@fx06.ams4>
In reply to#141152
On 2026-05-06, Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> wrote:
> On 02/05/2026 20:47, Scott Hoge wrote:
>
>> In Cantor's theorem, we do not actually construct a diagonal.
>> Rather, we presuppose that we can enumerate a set, and then,
>> /purely on the grounds of possibility/, conceive a
>> diagonalized non-element.
>
> Nope, as explained and re-explained ad nauseam around here:
> just the resident trolls won't get it.
>
> Cantor's diagonal argument, the one with the binary sequences,
> is indeed constructive: a definition of anti-diagonal of *any*
> (infinite) list is provided, and the proof that the
> anti-diagonal cannot be in the list is quite constructive.

An AI query seems to agree with you that constructiv-/ist/
mathematics permits Cantor's diagonal argument. I hadn't thought
about that in detail.

What I rather suggested was that Penrose's Orch-OR theory relates
to our ability to cognize through the mode of /possibility/
(where a computer might be confined to /existence/ or
/actuality/). That's why I said we do not /actually/ construct a
diagonal -- we merely think it possible as we enumerate.

Now compare a neuron to a computer chip. The computer chip is
deterministic. The same, macroscopic input invariably yields the
same, macroscopic output. Actuality gives way to actuality. In
contrast, a neuron generates an impulse through an influx of ions
across a voltage-gated ion channel. This behaves like a
"butterfly effect" or "avalanche": the flow of ions provides a
/self-reinforcing feedback loop/ on the basis of which infinitely
small differences in the microscopic world may affect the
neuron's "decision." A neuron thus conceives /possibility/ where
a computer is restricted to what is actual.

Then we just relate the infinitely small for the neuron to the
infinitely distant for Gödel's theorem and diagonalization. That
provides us with at least some basis for understanding the
Orch-OR theory.

-- Scott Hoge

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#142431

FromTristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk>
Date2026-07-04 16:31 +0100
Message-ID<112b90j$7lb9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#141152
On 06/05/2026 20:37, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
> On 02/05/2026 20:47, Scott Hoge wrote:
> 
>> In Cantor's theorem, we do not actually construct a diagonal.
>> Rather, we presuppose that we can enumerate a set, and then,
>> /purely on the grounds of possibility/, conceive a diagonalized
>> non-element.
> 
> Nope, as explained and re-explained ad nauseam around here:
> just the resident trolls won't get it.
> 
> Cantor's diagonal argument, the one with the binary sequences,
> is indeed constructive: a definition of anti-diagonal of *any*
> (infinite) list is provided, and the proof that the anti-diagonal
> cannot be in the list is quite constructive.

"quite" but not "completely".

A constructive operation is defined, but a diagonal number is
constructed just when that constructive operation is applied to a
constructible list. When it's applied to a list that doesn't have a
construction then the result isn't a construction of a diagonal number.

If we take a list of any infinite sequences to admit those that have no
construction then our diagonal number is not constructed.

If, instead of restricted universal quantification (∀ st.) which ranges
over the constructible objects with a restriction, we use restricted
fantastical quantification (🦄 st.) then we will range over lists that
are not constructible unless the restriction excludes them, thus we
could range over lists containing numbers that are not constructible,
then our diagonal number is not constructed in each case.

Where we are challenged to give a list, we ought to be challenged to
construct a list.

> (Namely, we don't need to say "assume ab abdsurdo that
> an enumeration is given", we can just say "for *any* list,
> we *construct* an element not in the list".)

For any constructible list.



-- 
Tristan Wibberley

The message body is Copyright (C) 2026 Tristan Wibberley except
citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#142476

FromTristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk>
Date2026-07-05 15:52 +0100
Message-ID<112dr3n$15erk$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#142431
On 04/07/2026 16:31, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
> On 06/05/2026 20:37, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
>> On 02/05/2026 20:47, Scott Hoge wrote:
>>
>>> In Cantor's theorem, we do not actually construct a diagonal.
>>> Rather, we presuppose that we can enumerate a set, and then,
>>> /purely on the grounds of possibility/, conceive a diagonalized
>>> non-element.
>>
>> Nope, as explained and re-explained ad nauseam around here:
>> just the resident trolls won't get it.
>>
>> Cantor's diagonal argument, the one with the binary sequences,
>> is indeed constructive: a definition of anti-diagonal of *any*
>> (infinite) list is provided, and the proof that the anti-diagonal
>> cannot be in the list is quite constructive.
> 
> "quite" but not "completely".
> 
> A constructive operation is defined, but a diagonal number is
> constructed just when that constructive operation is applied to a
> constructible list. 

I should note for the less knowledgable readers of course it's less
often than that, it is only that often for systems such as the one Julio
and Phoenix are using which allows dequantification of universally
quantified statements into the system proper which then have derivable
statements containing actual constructions of the constructible objects
they apply to by virtue of their original quantification. Of course,
dequantification of fantastically quantified statements doesn't make a
statement about nonconstructible objects because there aren't any
outside of the fantastical quantification.

By which I don't mean to argue the countability of the set of reals as
defined in what we call Cantor's Proof of the Uncountability of the
Reals to include objects quantified over by fantatstical quantification
but not by universal quantification, but it does make some meaning clearer.

While some of the sets might have objects in the system proper, some of
the members of some of the sets clearly do not.

-- 
Tristan Wibberley

The message body is Copyright (C) 2026 Tristan Wibberley except
citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#142479

FromTristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk>
Date2026-07-05 17:31 +0100
Message-ID<112e0ta$16v7o$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#142476
On 05/07/2026 15:52, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
> Of course,
> dequantification of fantastically quantified statements doesn't make a
> statement about nonconstructible objects because there aren't any
> outside of the fantastical quantification.


Oooh! Oooh! Except for inner dequantification of a statement of multiple
fantastic quantification! That might have quantification elimination
rules, perhaps!

I'm loving this game!



-- 
Tristan Wibberley

The message body is Copyright (C) 2026 Tristan Wibberley except
citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#142480

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2026-07-05 11:33 -0500
Message-ID<112e10l$17k8g$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#142476
On 7/5/2026 9:52 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
> On 04/07/2026 16:31, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
>> On 06/05/2026 20:37, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
>>> On 02/05/2026 20:47, Scott Hoge wrote:
>>>
>>>> In Cantor's theorem, we do not actually construct a diagonal.
>>>> Rather, we presuppose that we can enumerate a set, and then,
>>>> /purely on the grounds of possibility/, conceive a diagonalized
>>>> non-element.
>>>
>>> Nope, as explained and re-explained ad nauseam around here:
>>> just the resident trolls won't get it.
>>>
>>> Cantor's diagonal argument, the one with the binary sequences,
>>> is indeed constructive: a definition of anti-diagonal of *any*
>>> (infinite) list is provided, and the proof that the anti-diagonal
>>> cannot be in the list is quite constructive.
>>
>> "quite" but not "completely".
>>
>> A constructive operation is defined, but a diagonal number is
>> constructed just when that constructive operation is applied to a
>> constructible list.
> 
> I should note for the less knowledgable readers of course it's less
> often than that, it is only that often for systems such as the one Julio
> and Phoenix are using which allows dequantification of universally
> quantified statements into the system proper which then have derivable
> statements containing actual constructions of the constructible objects
> they apply to by virtue of their original quantification. Of course,
> dequantification of fantastically quantified statements doesn't make a
> statement about nonconstructible objects because there aren't any
> outside of the fantastical quantification.
> 
> By which I don't mean to argue the countability of the set of reals as
> defined in what we call Cantor's Proof of the Uncountability of the
> Reals to include objects quantified over by fantatstical quantification
> but not by universal quantification, but it does make some meaning clearer.
> 
> While some of the sets might have objects in the system proper, some of
> the members of some of the sets clearly do not.
> 

% This sentence is not true.
?- LP = not(true(LP)).
LP = not(true(LP)).
?- unify_with_occurs_check(LP, not(true(LP))).
false.

Olcott's Minimal Type Theory
G ↔ ¬Prov_PA(⌜G⌝)
Directed Graph of evaluation sequence
00 ↔               01 02
01 G
02 ¬               03
03 Prov_PA         04
04 Gödel_Number_of 01  // cycle indicates no well-founded justification 
tree exists.

The absence of
(a) finite sequence of inference steps to an atomic base,
(b) canonical proof
(c) well-founded justification tree
makes the above to PTS invalid.

-- 
Copyright 2026 Olcott

My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
reliably computable for the entire body of knowledge.
The complete structure of this system is now defined.

The entire body of knowledge expressed in language is
comprised of two types of relations between finite strings:
(a) *Axioms* Expressions of language that are stipulated to be true.

My system bridges the analytic/synthetic distinction by
expressly encoding all empirical "atomic facts" in a formal
language such as CycL of the Cyc project.

(b) *Inference Rules* Expressions of language that are semantically
entailed syntactically from (a) and/or (b).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#142482

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2026-07-05 12:56 -0700
Message-ID<oWednT7uSfdxK9f3nZ2dnZfqnPZqZhMS@giganews.com>
In reply to#142480
On 07/05/2026 09:33 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 7/5/2026 9:52 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
>> On 04/07/2026 16:31, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
>>> On 06/05/2026 20:37, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
>>>> On 02/05/2026 20:47, Scott Hoge wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In Cantor's theorem, we do not actually construct a diagonal.
>>>>> Rather, we presuppose that we can enumerate a set, and then,
>>>>> /purely on the grounds of possibility/, conceive a diagonalized
>>>>> non-element.
>>>>
>>>> Nope, as explained and re-explained ad nauseam around here:
>>>> just the resident trolls won't get it.
>>>>
>>>> Cantor's diagonal argument, the one with the binary sequences,
>>>> is indeed constructive: a definition of anti-diagonal of *any*
>>>> (infinite) list is provided, and the proof that the anti-diagonal
>>>> cannot be in the list is quite constructive.
>>>
>>> "quite" but not "completely".
>>>
>>> A constructive operation is defined, but a diagonal number is
>>> constructed just when that constructive operation is applied to a
>>> constructible list.
>>
>> I should note for the less knowledgable readers of course it's less
>> often than that, it is only that often for systems such as the one Julio
>> and Phoenix are using which allows dequantification of universally
>> quantified statements into the system proper which then have derivable
>> statements containing actual constructions of the constructible objects
>> they apply to by virtue of their original quantification. Of course,
>> dequantification of fantastically quantified statements doesn't make a
>> statement about nonconstructible objects because there aren't any
>> outside of the fantastical quantification.
>>
>> By which I don't mean to argue the countability of the set of reals as
>> defined in what we call Cantor's Proof of the Uncountability of the
>> Reals to include objects quantified over by fantatstical quantification
>> but not by universal quantification, but it does make some meaning
>> clearer.
>>
>> While some of the sets might have objects in the system proper, some of
>> the members of some of the sets clearly do not.
>>
>
> % This sentence is not true.
> ?- LP = not(true(LP)).
> LP = not(true(LP)).
> ?- unify_with_occurs_check(LP, not(true(LP))).
> false.
>
> Olcott's Minimal Type Theory
> G ↔ ¬Prov_PA(⌜G⌝)
> Directed Graph of evaluation sequence
> 00 ↔               01 02
> 01 G
> 02 ¬               03
> 03 Prov_PA         04
> 04 Gödel_Number_of 01  // cycle indicates no well-founded justification
> tree exists.
>
> The absence of
> (a) finite sequence of inference steps to an atomic base,
> (b) canonical proof
> (c) well-founded justification tree
> makes the above to PTS invalid.
>

Yeah, come up with something new, or stuff a sock in it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#142484

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2026-07-05 15:25 -0500
Message-ID<112eek3$1d64d$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#142482
On 7/5/2026 2:56 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 07/05/2026 09:33 AM, olcott wrote:
>> On 7/5/2026 9:52 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
>>> On 04/07/2026 16:31, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
>>>> On 06/05/2026 20:37, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
>>>>> On 02/05/2026 20:47, Scott Hoge wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In Cantor's theorem, we do not actually construct a diagonal.
>>>>>> Rather, we presuppose that we can enumerate a set, and then,
>>>>>> /purely on the grounds of possibility/, conceive a diagonalized
>>>>>> non-element.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope, as explained and re-explained ad nauseam around here:
>>>>> just the resident trolls won't get it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cantor's diagonal argument, the one with the binary sequences,
>>>>> is indeed constructive: a definition of anti-diagonal of *any*
>>>>> (infinite) list is provided, and the proof that the anti-diagonal
>>>>> cannot be in the list is quite constructive.
>>>>
>>>> "quite" but not "completely".
>>>>
>>>> A constructive operation is defined, but a diagonal number is
>>>> constructed just when that constructive operation is applied to a
>>>> constructible list.
>>>
>>> I should note for the less knowledgable readers of course it's less
>>> often than that, it is only that often for systems such as the one Julio
>>> and Phoenix are using which allows dequantification of universally
>>> quantified statements into the system proper which then have derivable
>>> statements containing actual constructions of the constructible objects
>>> they apply to by virtue of their original quantification. Of course,
>>> dequantification of fantastically quantified statements doesn't make a
>>> statement about nonconstructible objects because there aren't any
>>> outside of the fantastical quantification.
>>>
>>> By which I don't mean to argue the countability of the set of reals as
>>> defined in what we call Cantor's Proof of the Uncountability of the
>>> Reals to include objects quantified over by fantatstical quantification
>>> but not by universal quantification, but it does make some meaning
>>> clearer.
>>>
>>> While some of the sets might have objects in the system proper, some of
>>> the members of some of the sets clearly do not.
>>>
>>
>> % This sentence is not true.
>> ?- LP = not(true(LP)).
>> LP = not(true(LP)).
>> ?- unify_with_occurs_check(LP, not(true(LP))).
>> false.
>>
>> Olcott's Minimal Type Theory
>> G ↔ ¬Prov_PA(⌜G⌝)
>> Directed Graph of evaluation sequence
>> 00 ↔               01 02
>> 01 G
>> 02 ¬               03
>> 03 Prov_PA         04
>> 04 Gödel_Number_of 01  // cycle indicates no well-founded justification
>> tree exists.
>>
>> The absence of
>> (a) finite sequence of inference steps to an atomic base,
>> (b) canonical proof
>> (c) well-founded justification tree
>> makes the above to PTS invalid.
>>
> 
> Yeah, come up with something new, or stuff a sock in it.
> 
> 

The above proves that the notion of undecidable
is incorrect if you understood rather than ignored
what it says.

It also is the final resolution to the Liar Paradox
and you would know this if you understood it.

-- 
Copyright 2026 Olcott

My 28 year goal has been to make
"true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
reliably computable for the entire body of knowledge.
The complete structure of this system is now defined.

The entire body of knowledge expressed in language is
comprised of two types of relations between finite strings:
(a) *Axioms* Expressions of language that are stipulated to be true.

My system bridges the analytic/synthetic distinction by
expressly encoding all empirical "atomic facts" in a formal
language such as CycL of the Cyc project.

(b) *Inference Rules* Expressions of language that are semantically
entailed syntactically from (a) and/or (b).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#142488

FromRoss Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2026-07-05 14:30 -0700
Message-ID<8aWdndmmZ_N4Udf3nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#142484
On 07/05/2026 01:25 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 7/5/2026 2:56 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>> On 07/05/2026 09:33 AM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 7/5/2026 9:52 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
>>>> On 04/07/2026 16:31, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
>>>>> On 06/05/2026 20:37, Julio Di Egidio wrote:
>>>>>> On 02/05/2026 20:47, Scott Hoge wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In Cantor's theorem, we do not actually construct a diagonal.
>>>>>>> Rather, we presuppose that we can enumerate a set, and then,
>>>>>>> /purely on the grounds of possibility/, conceive a diagonalized
>>>>>>> non-element.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope, as explained and re-explained ad nauseam around here:
>>>>>> just the resident trolls won't get it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cantor's diagonal argument, the one with the binary sequences,
>>>>>> is indeed constructive: a definition of anti-diagonal of *any*
>>>>>> (infinite) list is provided, and the proof that the anti-diagonal
>>>>>> cannot be in the list is quite constructive.
>>>>>
>>>>> "quite" but not "completely".
>>>>>
>>>>> A constructive operation is defined, but a diagonal number is
>>>>> constructed just when that constructive operation is applied to a
>>>>> constructible list.
>>>>
>>>> I should note for the less knowledgable readers of course it's less
>>>> often than that, it is only that often for systems such as the one
>>>> Julio
>>>> and Phoenix are using which allows dequantification of universally
>>>> quantified statements into the system proper which then have derivable
>>>> statements containing actual constructions of the constructible objects
>>>> they apply to by virtue of their original quantification. Of course,
>>>> dequantification of fantastically quantified statements doesn't make a
>>>> statement about nonconstructible objects because there aren't any
>>>> outside of the fantastical quantification.
>>>>
>>>> By which I don't mean to argue the countability of the set of reals as
>>>> defined in what we call Cantor's Proof of the Uncountability of the
>>>> Reals to include objects quantified over by fantatstical quantification
>>>> but not by universal quantification, but it does make some meaning
>>>> clearer.
>>>>
>>>> While some of the sets might have objects in the system proper, some of
>>>> the members of some of the sets clearly do not.
>>>>
>>>
>>> % This sentence is not true.
>>> ?- LP = not(true(LP)).
>>> LP = not(true(LP)).
>>> ?- unify_with_occurs_check(LP, not(true(LP))).
>>> false.
>>>
>>> Olcott's Minimal Type Theory
>>> G ↔ ¬Prov_PA(⌜G⌝)
>>> Directed Graph of evaluation sequence
>>> 00 ↔               01 02
>>> 01 G
>>> 02 ¬               03
>>> 03 Prov_PA         04
>>> 04 Gödel_Number_of 01  // cycle indicates no well-founded justification
>>> tree exists.
>>>
>>> The absence of
>>> (a) finite sequence of inference steps to an atomic base,
>>> (b) canonical proof
>>> (c) well-founded justification tree
>>> makes the above to PTS invalid.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, come up with something new, or stuff a sock in it.
>>
>>
>
> The above proves that the notion of undecidable
> is incorrect if you understood rather than ignored
> what it says.
>
> It also is the final resolution to the Liar Paradox
> and you would know this if you understood it.
>

Like I said,
"understanding" is for suckers,
"comprehension" is for knowledge.


Your axiomatization otherwise is false.


It's like they say,
"It just don't mean a thing."


WM <- retro-finitist crankety-troll
JG <- retro-finitist crankety-troll
PO <- retro-finitist crankety-troll
"Polluter(s) of sci.math"

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 19 of 20 — ← Prev page 1 … 17 18 [19] 20  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.theory


csiph-web