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Groups > comp.theory > #117472 > unrolled thread

Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable

Started byolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
First post2025-05-04 21:23 -0500
Last post2025-05-06 22:07 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 628 — 16 participants

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Contents

  Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-04 21:23 -0500
    Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-05 10:01 +0300
    Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-05-05 10:47 +0000
      Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 10:33 -0500
        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-05-05 16:05 +0000
          Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 12:30 -0500
            Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-05-05 18:19 +0000
              Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 13:44 -0500
                Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-05-05 18:52 +0000
                  Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 14:22 -0500
                    Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-05-05 19:34 +0000
                      Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 14:52 -0500
                        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-05-05 20:12 +0000
                          Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 16:03 -0500
                            Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-05-06 08:30 +0000
                              Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 09:43 -0500
                                Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-06 21:57 -0400
                    Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-06 10:04 +0000
                      Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 12:14 -0500
                        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-06 22:01 -0400
                        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-07 10:52 +0300
    Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-05 07:04 -0400
      Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-05 14:46 +0000
        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-05 16:51 +0100
          Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-05 16:10 +0000
            Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-05 17:59 +0100
        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-05 21:08 -0400
      Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 10:31 -0500
        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-05 21:11 -0400
          Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 21:26 -0500
            Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-06 07:16 -0400
        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 23:27 -0500
          Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-05-06 08:17 +0000
            Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 09:36 -0500
              Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-05-06 15:38 +0000
                Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-06 17:16 +0100
                  Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-05-07 17:01 +0100
                    Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-07 17:22 +0100
                      Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-07 17:11 +0000
                        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-07 18:51 +0100
                      Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-07 18:59 +0100
                      Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-05-09 01:58 +0100
                        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-09 05:43 +0100
                  Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 12:55 -0500
                    Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-07 19:14 +0100
                      Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-07 18:17 +0000
                        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-07 19:32 +0100
                          Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-07 19:11 +0000
                            Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-07 22:23 +0100
                      Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 13:31 -0500
                        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 14:32 -0400
                        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-07 19:59 +0100
                          Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 14:35 -0500
                            Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-07 22:30 +0100
                              Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 16:46 -0500
                                Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 17:47 -0400
                                  Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 16:56 -0500
                                    Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 18:05 -0400
                                      Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 18:05 -0500
                                        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 19:10 -0400
                                          Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 18:16 -0500
                                            Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 19:18 -0400
                                              Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 18:26 -0500
                                                Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 19:31 -0400
                                                  Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 18:39 -0500
                                                    Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 20:14 -0400
                                                  Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 18:40 -0500
                                                    Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 20:15 -0400
                                                      Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 19:19 -0500
                                                        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 20:44 -0400
                                                          Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 20:20 -0500
                                                            Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 21:30 -0400
                                                              Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 20:48 -0500
                                                                Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 21:59 -0400
                                                            Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-08 05:09 +0100
                                                              Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 00:22 -0500
                                                                Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-08 06:33 +0100
                                                                  Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-08 17:14 +0100
                                                                    Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 12:00 -0500
                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-08 21:04 +0200
                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 14:42 -0500
                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-08 21:01 +0100
                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-08 21:35 +0000
                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-08 23:12 +0100
                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 15:26 -0700
                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 15:31 -0700
                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 17:47 -0500
                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 16:45 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 18:53 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 17:00 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 19:14 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-08 21:07 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 20:33 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-08 22:11 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 18:54 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-09 05:50 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 00:01 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-09 06:23 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 06:52 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-09 10:41 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 10:39 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 12:50 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 09:39 +0200
                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-08 21:02 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 19:23 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 21:28 -0500
                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 21:18 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2025-05-08 23:01 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 21:22 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 23:56 -0500
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 07:00 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 06:59 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 10:16 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 12:52 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 09:52 -0500
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 12:57 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 09:59 +0200
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-09 10:47 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 10:48 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 13:00 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 14:46 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-09 21:07 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 15:15 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 17:35 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-09 22:40 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 17:18 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 18:31 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 19:34 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-10 01:26 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 20:14 -0700
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 19:40 -0700
                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 11:13 +0800
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 22:24 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 11:43 +0800
                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 23:18 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 12:32 +0800
                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 23:44 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 12:51 +0800
                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 00:06 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 13:13 +0800
                                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 00:19 -0500
                                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 13:27 +0800
                                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 00:41 -0500
                                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 14:00 +0800
                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 01:06 -0500
                                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 14:19 +0800
                                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 09:51 -0500
                                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 11:01 -0400
                                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 17:14 +0200
                                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 23:14 +0800
                                                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 10:43 -0500
                                                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 00:00 +0800
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 11:15 -0500
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 12:18 -0400
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 00:21 +0800
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 11:44 -0500
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 12:55 -0400
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-10 17:34 +0100
                                                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 18:05 +0200
                                                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-10 17:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 10:30 +0200
                                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 08:39 -0400
                                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 08:37 -0400
                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 08:36 -0400
                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 15:16 -0400
                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 08:54 -0400
                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 08:53 -0400
                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 23:53 -0400
                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 23:13 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 00:18 -0400
                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 10:25 +0200
                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 08:59 -0400
                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 10:22 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 23:31 -0400
                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 23:21 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 10:34 +0200
                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-10 09:42 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 09:09 -0400
                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 22:13 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 23:45 -0400
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 10:18 +0200
                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-10 11:24 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 17:34 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 10:05 +0200
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-10 11:18 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2025-05-09 13:59 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-10 01:23 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 19:48 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 22:20 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 21:41 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-10 03:59 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 23:06 -0400
                                                                                                  Repetitive posting [ Was: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD)] Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-05-10 10:21 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Repetitive posting [ Was: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD)] olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 09:30 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: Repetitive posting [ Was: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD)] dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 10:57 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Repetitive posting [ Was: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD)] "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 16:57 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: Repetitive posting [ Was: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD)] Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 15:21 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 10:38 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 20:12 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 22:17 -0500
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 23:29 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 23:27 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 10:44 +0200
                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 09:15 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 15:23 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 10:42 +0200
                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-09 05:35 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 22:18 -0700
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-09 06:41 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-09 10:39 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 10:33 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-09 15:42 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 10:53 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 14:06 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 13:58 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 10:46 +0200
                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 10:41 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 14:08 -0400
                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 17:50 -0500
                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-09 00:30 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 18:41 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-09 00:46 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 16:54 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 19:05 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-08 21:13 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 20:35 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 19:14 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-09 06:10 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 22:37 -0700
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-08 22:13 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-09 11:03 +0200
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 11:02 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 14:09 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 10:49 +0200
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 19:02 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 21:22 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-08 22:30 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 14:37 +0200
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 09:33 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 16:54 +0200
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 23:28 +0800
                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 10:45 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 00:06 +0800
                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 11:19 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 12:21 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 00:29 +0800
                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 11:47 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 01:01 +0800
                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 12:17 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 13:19 -0400
                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 02:09 +0800
                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 13:17 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 14:24 -0400
                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 02:37 +0800
                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 13:47 -0500
                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 03:02 +0800
                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 14:29 -0500
                                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 05:44 +0800
                                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 17:03 -0500
                                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 18:39 -0400
                                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-10 22:55 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 19:03 -0400
                                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-10 23:35 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 18:57 -0400
                                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 09:17 +0800
                                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 20:26 -0500
                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-11 02:43 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 09:44 +0800
                                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 20:56 -0500
                                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 10:09 +0800
                                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 21:19 -0500
                                                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-11 07:03 -0400
                                                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 22:34 +0800
                                                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 10:38 -0500
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 00:28 +0800
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 12:00 -0500
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 01:21 +0800
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 12:40 -0500
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 13:44 -0400
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 02:38 +0800
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 15:19 -0500
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 16:21 -0400
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 04:23 +0800
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 15:50 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 15:53 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 17:01 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 05:48 +0800
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 17:00 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 17:05 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 06:11 +0800
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 17:30 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 06:50 +0800
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 18:08 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 08:33 +0800
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 19:51 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-11 21:15 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 20:51 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 21:56 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-12 22:30 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-16 15:38 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 10:50 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-16 12:04 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-17 11:09 +0300
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 19:59 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) --- DOS detector olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 19:57 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) --- DOS detector dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 21:01 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) --- DOS detector joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-12 09:22 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) --- DOS detector olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 10:58 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-11 19:34 -0400
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-11 17:06 -0400
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-12 11:03 +0300
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 10:04 -0500
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 11:06 -0400
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 11:19 -0500
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 12:41 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 11:54 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 13:07 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 12:16 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 13:30 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 12:58 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 14:19 -0400
                                                                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-13 13:23 +0200
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-13 13:19 +0300
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-12 21:29 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-05-12 23:10 -0400
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-11 16:25 -0400
                                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-05-12 17:46 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 12:23 -0500
                                                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-12 22:38 -0400
                                                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-05-12 23:11 -0400
                                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 22:12 -0400
                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 21:54 -0400
                                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-11 11:07 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 11:37 -0500
                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-11 16:36 -0400
                                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 16:13 -0500
                                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-11 19:36 -0400
                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-13 13:20 +0200
                                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 18:52 -0400
                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 15:32 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 15:25 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-05-10 18:48 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 13:56 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 15:03 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 15:33 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-10 18:58 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-05-10 20:07 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-10 20:17 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 15:29 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 18:58 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-05-11 10:34 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-11 11:48 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-11 12:57 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-11 12:09 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-11 13:12 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-11 12:17 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-11 13:36 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-11 12:41 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-11 14:58 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 10:44 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-11 16:49 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-11 16:50 -0400
                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 10:14 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-11 16:27 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 15:26 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-05-10 20:45 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 15:58 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 17:01 -0400
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 19:23 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 19:04 -0400
                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-10 21:27 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-05-10 20:22 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 15:42 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 16:50 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 19:27 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-11 11:13 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 11:44 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 12:52 -0400
                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 12:35 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 13:43 -0400
                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-13 13:10 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-11 18:11 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-12 01:38 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 19:48 -0500
                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 20:58 -0400
                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 20:05 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 21:07 -0400
                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-11 21:40 -0400
                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 21:11 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-12 22:39 -0400
                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-11 21:27 -0400
                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 20:56 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 21:59 -0400
                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 21:14 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 22:28 -0400
                                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 21:36 -0500
                                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 22:38 -0400
                                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 21:46 -0500
                                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 22:49 -0400
                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 21:56 -0500
                                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 22:57 -0400
                                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 22:00 -0500
                                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 23:03 -0400
                                                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 22:36 -0500
                                                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 23:39 -0400
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 22:50 -0500
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 23:54 -0400
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 23:11 -0500
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 07:46 -0400
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 11:32 -0500
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 12:45 -0400
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-12 21:27 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-13 13:01 +0200
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-13 13:05 +0200
                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-12 22:44 -0400
                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-12 22:42 -0400
                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-12 02:25 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-05-12 18:03 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-05-12 18:05 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-12 19:13 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-05-13 01:18 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-13 03:38 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-12 19:06 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-13 03:17 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 21:32 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-12 22:59 -0400
                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-13 12:58 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-13 03:41 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-13 09:01 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-13 18:46 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 16:04 -0500
                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-13 18:45 -0400
                                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 20:58 -0400
                                                                                                                              How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 20:07 -0500
                                                                                                                                Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 21:19 -0400
                                                                                                                                  Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 20:40 -0500
                                                                                                                                    Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 21:45 -0400
                                                                                                                                      Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 20:55 -0500
                                                                                                                                        Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 21:58 -0400
                                                                                                                                          Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 21:43 -0500
                                                                                                                                            Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 22:44 -0400
                                                                                                                                              Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 22:18 -0500
                                                                                                                                                Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 23:35 -0400
                                                                                                                                            Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-14 08:17 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 10:06 -0500
                                                                                                                                                Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-14 18:37 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 13:42 -0500
                                                                                                                                                    Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 19:56 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 14:02 -0500
                                                                                                                                                        Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 20:17 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 14:21 -0500
                                                                                                                                                            Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 20:49 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 15:00 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 21:18 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 15:25 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 21:26 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-14 20:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 15:40 -0500
                                                                                                                                                                Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 21:54 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 21:51 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-05-14 20:20 +0100
                                                                                                                                                    Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 14:46 -0500
                                                                                                                                                      Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 17:18 -0400
                                                                                                                                                Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-14 21:51 -0400
                                                                                                                                              Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-15 00:02 +0100
                                                                                                                                                Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 18:17 -0500
                                                                                                                                                Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 18:27 -0500
                                                                                                                                                Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-05-15 01:02 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 19:09 -0500
                                                                                                                                Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-14 07:46 -0400
                                                                                                                                  Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 10:23 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-11 19:54 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-11 17:02 -0400
                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 16:15 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-11 19:39 -0400
                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 19:29 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-11 21:31 -0400
                                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 21:03 -0500
                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 22:05 -0400
                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-12 22:49 -0400
                                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-13 12:46 +0200
                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-13 12:48 +0200
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-13 13:16 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-05-11 12:26 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-11 12:34 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-05-11 14:38 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 10:26 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-11 16:38 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 11:58 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 15:25 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 09:45 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 14:13 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-09 11:00 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 10:59 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 14:15 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 10:52 +0200
                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 16:49 -0700
                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 18:59 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-08 21:15 -0400
                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 20:41 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-08 22:18 -0400
                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 18:30 -0700
                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 21:13 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-08 22:35 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-09 04:14 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 22:34 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-09 09:48 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 10:08 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-09 15:47 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 10:57 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 14:22 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 07:12 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 21:11 -0700
                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 23:49 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 22:31 -0700
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 00:49 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 23:17 -0700
                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 10:03 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 14:24 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 07:21 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 07:18 -0400
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 07:15 -0400
                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 18:02 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 19:36 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 18:43 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 20:37 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 15:28 +0200
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-10 01:29 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 20:38 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-10 01:48 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 19:54 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 22:25 -0400
                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 21:43 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 23:08 -0400
                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 19:51 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-10 02:15 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 20:29 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-10 02:32 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 20:50 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 20:48 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-10 03:15 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 21:20 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 22:39 -0400
                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 21:47 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 23:12 -0400
                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 23:46 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-10 11:03 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 14:57 +0200
                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 09:17 -0400
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 23:10 -0400
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 14:59 +0200
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 22:34 -0400
                                                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 20:50 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-10 03:19 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 21:27 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 23:17 -0400
                                                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) --- DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 22:29 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) --- DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 23:50 -0400
                                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) --- DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 23:05 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) --- DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 09:20 -0400
                                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 14:55 +0200
                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 22:32 -0400
                                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 22:30 -0400
                                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 21:45 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 23:22 -0400
                                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-09 11:14 +0200
                                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 11:04 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 14:25 -0400
                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 16:41 -0500
                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-08 23:13 +0100
                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 17:20 -0500
                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 07:25 -0400
                                                                                    Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 10:55 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 14:29 -0400
                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-09 10:33 +0200
                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 10:29 -0500
                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 14:32 -0400
                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 09:37 +0200
                                                                      Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-08 19:35 -0400
                                                                        Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 18:48 -0500
                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-08 21:18 -0400
                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-08 20:55 -0500
                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-08 22:26 -0400
                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-09 11:28 +0200
                                                                                Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 11:13 -0500
                                                                                  Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 14:33 -0400
                                                                          Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-09 11:25 +0200
                                                                            Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-09 11:11 -0500
                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 14:34 -0400
                                                                              Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input to HHH(DD) "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 09:53 +0200
                                                                    Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-08 18:45 +0100
                                                                Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-08 07:21 -0400
                                                  Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 18:41 -0500
                                Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-07 22:52 +0100
                                  Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 16:59 -0500
                                    Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-07 23:16 +0100
                                      Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-07 22:26 +0000
                                        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-07 23:29 +0100
                                      Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 18:09 -0500
                                        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-08 03:24 +0100
                                          Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 21:41 -0500
                                            Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-08 05:12 +0100
                                            Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 21:33 -0700
                                              Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 23:54 -0500
                                                Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-08 06:02 +0100
                                Re: faithful simulations [was: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable] joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-08 11:07 +0000
                    Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 14:18 -0400
                      Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 13:35 -0500
                        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 14:38 -0400
                          Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 15:03 -0500
                            Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 16:07 -0400
                              Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 15:39 -0500
                                Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 16:53 -0400
                                  Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 15:58 -0500
                                    Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 17:03 -0400
                                      Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 16:24 -0500
                                        Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 17:29 -0400
                  Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 13:03 -0500
                    Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-08 11:38 +0300
                Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 12:06 -0500
                Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-07 11:02 +0300
                  Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-07 09:19 +0100
              Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-06 22:04 -0400
              Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-07 10:57 +0300
              Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-07 09:05 +0100
          Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-06 07:20 -0400
            Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable ---ELABORATED olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 12:46 -0500
              Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable ---ELABORATED Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-06 22:07 -0400

Page 31 of 32 — ← Prev page 1 … 29 30 [31] 32  Next page →


#117972

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-07 21:41 -0500
Message-ID<vvh5ka$1gjtf$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117971
On 5/7/2025 9:24 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 08/05/2025 00:09, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/7/2025 5:16 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>> On 07/05/2025 22:59, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 5/7/2025 4:52 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>> On 07/05/2025 22:46, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/7/2025 4:30 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the simulation can't reach code that the directly executed 
>>>>>>> program reaches, then it's not a faithful simulation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If is was true that it is not a faithful simulation
>>>>>> then you would be able to show exactly what sequence
>>>>>> of instructions would be a faithful simulation.
>>>>>
>>>>> If it were false, you'd be able to chop out the unreachable code 
>>>>> without any adverse effects. Can you?
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I already know the answer.
>>>
>>> Then you already know why your simulation code fails to simulate 
>>> correctly... 
>>
>> When I say correctly I mean according to the
>> rules of the x86 language.
> 
> No, when you say 'correctly' my best guess would be that you mean it 
> fits your expectations.
> 
>> When you say "correctly" you mean break the rules
>> of the x86 language to match a misconception.
> 
> No, when I said 'fails to simulate correctly' I meant 'fails to simulate 
> the behaviour it was asked to simulate'. 

There is such a thing as incorrect questions.

The logical law of polar questions

When posed to a man whom has never been married,
the question: Have you stopped beating your wife?
Is an incorrect polar question because neither yes nor
no is a correct answer.

All polar questions (including incorrect polar questions)
have exactly one answer from the following:
1) No
2) Yes
3) Neither // Only applies to incorrect polar questions
https://groups.google.com/g/sci.lang/c/AO5Vlupeelo/m/nxJy7N2vULwJ

> You have already acknowledged 
> that some of the code is reachable by the program when executed directly 
> but not by the simulator. That's self-evidently broken.
> 

It you would bother to pay enough attention you
would see the the sequences ARE NOT THE SAME.

You are essentially asking sum(3,2) to return the
sum of 5 + 7. Can you see how asking sum(3,2)
to return the sum of 5 + 7 is incorrect according
to the rules of arithmetic?

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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#118007

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2025-05-08 05:12 +0100
Message-ID<vvhb05$1hp80$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117972
On 08/05/2025 03:41, olcott wrote:
> 
> There is such a thing as incorrect questions.

There's also such a thing as incorrect code.

I finally took a close look at Halt7.c.

Oh deary deary me.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#118011

FromKeith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-07 21:33 -0700
Message-ID<87zffnen6f.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com>
In reply to#117972
olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
> You are essentially asking sum(3,2) to return the
> sum of 5 + 7. Can you see how asking sum(3,2)
> to return the sum of 5 + 7 is incorrect according
> to the rules of arithmetic?

"sum" is a valid C identifier.  Nothing in the rules of C says
that naming a function "sum" is incorrect, regardless of what that
function does.

This:

    int sum(int x, int y) { return 12; }

is a perfectly valid C function.  You might get a non-fatal warning
that the parameter values aren't used, so you could try this equally
valid C function:

    int sum(int x, int y) { return x + y + 7; }

Perhaps I have three functions named "cogito()", "ergo()", and
"sum()", and they perform some operations that make sense in the
context of the application of which they're a part.

Since there was no reference to the name "sum" in the article to
which you replied, it's difficult to tell what point you're trying
to make.  Try making it more directly, without pretending that the
name "sum" has some meaning in the context of C.

When you make arguments based your understanding of C, you usually
get something wrong.  It creates distractions and makes it difficult
to follow your reasoning.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

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#118014

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-07 23:54 -0500
Message-ID<vvhddg$1hom3$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#118011
On 5/7/2025 11:33 PM, Keith Thompson wrote:
> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> writes:
> [...]
>> You are essentially asking sum(3,2) to return the
>> sum of 5 + 7. Can you see how asking sum(3,2)
>> to return the sum of 5 + 7 is incorrect according
>> to the rules of arithmetic?
> 
> "sum" is a valid C identifier.  Nothing in the rules of C says
> that naming a function "sum" is incorrect, regardless of what that
> function does.
> 
I explained it better the first fifty times I said it.


> This:
> 
>      int sum(int x, int y) { return 12; }
> 
> is a perfectly valid C function.  You might get a non-fatal warning
> that the parameter values aren't used, so you could try this equally
> valid C function:
> 
>      int sum(int x, int y) { return x + y + 7; }
> 
> Perhaps I have three functions named "cogito()", "ergo()", and
> "sum()", and they perform some operations that make sense in the
> context of the application of which they're a part.
> 
> Since there was no reference to the name "sum" in the article to
> which you replied, it's difficult to tell what point you're trying
> to make.  Try making it more directly, without pretending that the
> name "sum" has some meaning in the context of C.
> 
> When you make arguments based your understanding of C, you usually
> get something wrong.  It creates distractions and makes it difficult
> to follow your reasoning.
> 


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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#118015

FromRichard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk>
Date2025-05-08 06:02 +0100
Message-ID<vvhdt9$1hvei$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#118014
On 08/05/2025 05:54, olcott wrote:
> On 5/7/2025 11:33 PM, Keith Thompson wrote:
>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> writes:
>> [...]
>>> You are essentially asking sum(3,2) to return the
>>> sum of 5 + 7. Can you see how asking sum(3,2)
>>> to return the sum of 5 + 7 is incorrect according
>>> to the rules of arithmetic?
>>
>> "sum" is a valid C identifier.  Nothing in the rules of C says
>> that naming a function "sum" is incorrect, regardless of what that
>> function does.
>>
> I explained it better the first fifty times I said it.

No, you didn't.

Clarity is not your long suit.

-- 
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

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#118035 — Re: faithful simulations [was: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable]

Fromjoes <noreply@example.org>
Date2025-05-08 11:07 +0000
SubjectRe: faithful simulations [was: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable]
Message-ID<59e6acb910e06a3117c04694b5118d3768b870b8@i2pn2.org>
In reply to#117937
Am Wed, 07 May 2025 16:46:00 -0500 schrieb olcott:
> On 5/7/2025 4:30 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 07/05/2025 20:35, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/7/2025 1:59 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>> On 07/05/2025 19:31, olcott wrote:

>>>>> I already know that the contradictory part of the counter-example
>>>>> input has always been unreachable code.
>>>>
>>>> If the code is unreachable, it can't be part of a working program, so
>>>> simply remove it.
>>>
>>> It is unreachable by the Halting Problem counter-example input D when
>>> correctly simulated by the simulating termination analyzer H that it
>>> has been defined to thwart.
>> 
>> If the simulation can't reach code that the directly executed program
>> reaches, then it's not a faithful simulation.
>> 
> If is was true that it is not a faithful simulation then you would be
> able to show exactly what sequence of instructions would be a faithful
> simulation.
A faithful simulation would produce the same behaviour as direct
execution, as HHH1 and UTM do.

-- 
Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

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#117894

Fromdbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-07 14:18 -0400
Message-ID<vvg86b$15i5e$8@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117882
On 5/7/2025 1:55 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/6/2025 11:16 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 06/05/2025 16:38, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> These aren't particularly difficult things to comprehend.  As I keep
>>> saying, you ought to show a lot more respect for people who are
>>> mathematically educated.
>>
>> I concur.
>>
>> As someone who is not particularly mathematically educated (I have an 
>> A- level in the subject, but that's all), I tend to steer well clear 
>> of mathematical debates, although I have occasionally dipped a toe.
>>
>> I have *enormous* respect for those who know their tensors from their 
>> manifolds and their conjectures from their eigenvalues, even though 
>> it's all Greek to me.
>>
>> But to understand the Turing proof requires little if any mathematical 
>> knowledge. It requires only the capacity for clear thinking.
>>
>> Having been on the receiving end of lengthy Usenet diatribes by cranks 
>> in my own field, I don't hold out much hope for our current culprits 
>> developing either the capacity for clear thought or any measure of 
>> respect for expertise any time soon.
>>
>> Nor do I believe they are capable of understanding proof by 
>> contradiction, which is just about the easiest kind of proof there is. 
>> In fact, the most surprising aspect of this whole affair is that 
> 
> 
>> (according to Mike) Mr Olcott seems to have (correctly) spotted a 
>> minor flaw in the proof published by Dr Linz. How can he get that and 
>> not get contradiction? Proof by contradiction is /much/ easier.
>>
> 
> When THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION then proof by contradiction fails.

False.  The contradiction is that HHH is found to not map the below 
function after it is assumed that the below function is computable and 
that HHH computes it:


Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions) X 
described as <X> with input Y:

A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes the 
following mapping:

(<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
(<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed directly

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#117900

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-07 13:35 -0500
Message-ID<vvg963$15e69$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117894
On 5/7/2025 1:18 PM, dbush wrote:
> On 5/7/2025 1:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/6/2025 11:16 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>> On 06/05/2025 16:38, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>> These aren't particularly difficult things to comprehend.  As I keep
>>>> saying, you ought to show a lot more respect for people who are
>>>> mathematically educated.
>>>
>>> I concur.
>>>
>>> As someone who is not particularly mathematically educated (I have an 
>>> A- level in the subject, but that's all), I tend to steer well clear 
>>> of mathematical debates, although I have occasionally dipped a toe.
>>>
>>> I have *enormous* respect for those who know their tensors from their 
>>> manifolds and their conjectures from their eigenvalues, even though 
>>> it's all Greek to me.
>>>
>>> But to understand the Turing proof requires little if any 
>>> mathematical knowledge. It requires only the capacity for clear 
>>> thinking.
>>>
>>> Having been on the receiving end of lengthy Usenet diatribes by 
>>> cranks in my own field, I don't hold out much hope for our current 
>>> culprits developing either the capacity for clear thought or any 
>>> measure of respect for expertise any time soon.
>>>
>>> Nor do I believe they are capable of understanding proof by 
>>> contradiction, which is just about the easiest kind of proof there 
>>> is. In fact, the most surprising aspect of this whole affair is that 
>>
>>
>>> (according to Mike) Mr Olcott seems to have (correctly) spotted a 
>>> minor flaw in the proof published by Dr Linz. How can he get that and 
>>> not get contradiction? Proof by contradiction is /much/ easier.
>>>
>>
>> When THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION then proof by contradiction fails.
> 
> False.  The contradiction is that HHH is found to not map the below 
> function after it is assumed that the below function is computable and 
> that HHH computes it:
> 
> 
> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions) X 
> described as <X> with input Y:
> 
> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes the 
> following mapping:
> 
> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed directly
> 
> 

In other words you absolutely refuse to begin
to understand to notion of computing the mapping
from an input.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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#117901

Fromdbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-07 14:38 -0400
Message-ID<vvg9aq$15i5e$11@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117900
On 5/7/2025 2:35 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/7/2025 1:18 PM, dbush wrote:
>> On 5/7/2025 1:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/6/2025 11:16 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>> On 06/05/2025 16:38, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>> These aren't particularly difficult things to comprehend.  As I keep
>>>>> saying, you ought to show a lot more respect for people who are
>>>>> mathematically educated.
>>>>
>>>> I concur.
>>>>
>>>> As someone who is not particularly mathematically educated (I have 
>>>> an A- level in the subject, but that's all), I tend to steer well 
>>>> clear of mathematical debates, although I have occasionally dipped a 
>>>> toe.
>>>>
>>>> I have *enormous* respect for those who know their tensors from 
>>>> their manifolds and their conjectures from their eigenvalues, even 
>>>> though it's all Greek to me.
>>>>
>>>> But to understand the Turing proof requires little if any 
>>>> mathematical knowledge. It requires only the capacity for clear 
>>>> thinking.
>>>>
>>>> Having been on the receiving end of lengthy Usenet diatribes by 
>>>> cranks in my own field, I don't hold out much hope for our current 
>>>> culprits developing either the capacity for clear thought or any 
>>>> measure of respect for expertise any time soon.
>>>>
>>>> Nor do I believe they are capable of understanding proof by 
>>>> contradiction, which is just about the easiest kind of proof there 
>>>> is. In fact, the most surprising aspect of this whole affair is that 
>>>
>>>
>>>> (according to Mike) Mr Olcott seems to have (correctly) spotted a 
>>>> minor flaw in the proof published by Dr Linz. How can he get that 
>>>> and not get contradiction? Proof by contradiction is /much/ easier.
>>>>
>>>
>>> When THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION then proof by contradiction fails.
>>
>> False.  The contradiction is that HHH is found to not map the below 
>> function after it is assumed that the below function is computable and 
>> that HHH computes it:
>>
>>
>> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions) 
>> X described as <X> with input Y:
>>
>> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes the 
>> following mapping:
>>
>> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
>> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed 
>> directly
>>
>>
> 
> In other words you absolutely refuse to begin
> to understand to notion of computing the mapping
> from an input.
> 


I'll let you respond to yourself:

On 10/12/2024 8:35 PM, olcott wrote:
 > That your rebuttals are pure bluster utterly bereft of any
 > supporting reasoning is clear to all having sufficient
 > technical understanding.

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#117912

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-07 15:03 -0500
Message-ID<vvge9o$15e69$11@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117901
On 5/7/2025 1:38 PM, dbush wrote:
> On 5/7/2025 2:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/7/2025 1:18 PM, dbush wrote:
>>> On 5/7/2025 1:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 5/6/2025 11:16 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>> On 06/05/2025 16:38, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>> These aren't particularly difficult things to comprehend.  As I keep
>>>>>> saying, you ought to show a lot more respect for people who are
>>>>>> mathematically educated.
>>>>>
>>>>> I concur.
>>>>>
>>>>> As someone who is not particularly mathematically educated (I have 
>>>>> an A- level in the subject, but that's all), I tend to steer well 
>>>>> clear of mathematical debates, although I have occasionally dipped 
>>>>> a toe.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have *enormous* respect for those who know their tensors from 
>>>>> their manifolds and their conjectures from their eigenvalues, even 
>>>>> though it's all Greek to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> But to understand the Turing proof requires little if any 
>>>>> mathematical knowledge. It requires only the capacity for clear 
>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>
>>>>> Having been on the receiving end of lengthy Usenet diatribes by 
>>>>> cranks in my own field, I don't hold out much hope for our current 
>>>>> culprits developing either the capacity for clear thought or any 
>>>>> measure of respect for expertise any time soon.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nor do I believe they are capable of understanding proof by 
>>>>> contradiction, which is just about the easiest kind of proof there 
>>>>> is. In fact, the most surprising aspect of this whole affair is that 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> (according to Mike) Mr Olcott seems to have (correctly) spotted a 
>>>>> minor flaw in the proof published by Dr Linz. How can he get that 
>>>>> and not get contradiction? Proof by contradiction is /much/ easier.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION then proof by contradiction fails.
>>>
>>> False.  The contradiction is that HHH is found to not map the below 
>>> function after it is assumed that the below function is computable 
>>> and that HHH computes it:
>>>
>>>
>>> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions) 
>>> X described as <X> with input Y:
>>>
>>> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes the 
>>> following mapping:
>>>
>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed 
>>> directly
>>>
>>>
>>
>> In other words you absolutely refuse to begin
>> to understand to notion of computing the mapping
>> from an input.
>>
> 
> 
> I'll let you respond to yourself:
> 
> On 10/12/2024 8:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>  > That your rebuttals are pure bluster utterly bereft of any
>  > supporting reasoning is clear to all having sufficient
>  > technical understanding.
> 

In other words you absolutely refuse to understand
that functions computed by models of computation
are only allowed to derive outputs by applying
the steps of an algorithm to their actual inputs.

You probably don't understand any of those words.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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#117913

Fromdbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-07 16:07 -0400
Message-ID<vvgeh8$15i5e$14@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117912
On 5/7/2025 4:03 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/7/2025 1:38 PM, dbush wrote:
>> On 5/7/2025 2:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/7/2025 1:18 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>> On 5/7/2025 1:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 5/6/2025 11:16 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>> On 06/05/2025 16:38, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>>> These aren't particularly difficult things to comprehend.  As I keep
>>>>>>> saying, you ought to show a lot more respect for people who are
>>>>>>> mathematically educated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I concur.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As someone who is not particularly mathematically educated (I have 
>>>>>> an A- level in the subject, but that's all), I tend to steer well 
>>>>>> clear of mathematical debates, although I have occasionally dipped 
>>>>>> a toe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have *enormous* respect for those who know their tensors from 
>>>>>> their manifolds and their conjectures from their eigenvalues, even 
>>>>>> though it's all Greek to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But to understand the Turing proof requires little if any 
>>>>>> mathematical knowledge. It requires only the capacity for clear 
>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having been on the receiving end of lengthy Usenet diatribes by 
>>>>>> cranks in my own field, I don't hold out much hope for our current 
>>>>>> culprits developing either the capacity for clear thought or any 
>>>>>> measure of respect for expertise any time soon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nor do I believe they are capable of understanding proof by 
>>>>>> contradiction, which is just about the easiest kind of proof there 
>>>>>> is. In fact, the most surprising aspect of this whole affair is that 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> (according to Mike) Mr Olcott seems to have (correctly) spotted a 
>>>>>> minor flaw in the proof published by Dr Linz. How can he get that 
>>>>>> and not get contradiction? Proof by contradiction is /much/ easier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION then proof by contradiction fails.
>>>>
>>>> False.  The contradiction is that HHH is found to not map the below 
>>>> function after it is assumed that the below function is computable 
>>>> and that HHH computes it:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of 
>>>> instructions) X described as <X> with input Y:
>>>>
>>>> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes 
>>>> the following mapping:
>>>>
>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed 
>>>> directly
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> In other words you absolutely refuse to begin
>>> to understand to notion of computing the mapping
>>> from an input.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I'll let you respond to yourself:
>>
>> On 10/12/2024 8:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>>  > That your rebuttals are pure bluster utterly bereft of any
>>  > supporting reasoning is clear to all having sufficient
>>  > technical understanding.
>>
> 
> In other words you absolutely refuse to understand
> that functions computed by models of computation
> are only allowed to derive outputs by applying
> the steps of an algorithm to their actual inputs.
> 

No, it is you that doesn't understand that there is no requirement that 
any mapping has an algorithm that can compute it.  The halting mapping 
is one such mapping, as Linz and others have proved and as you have 
*explicitly* agreed is correct.

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#117916

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-07 15:39 -0500
Message-ID<vvggdn$17q6h$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117913
On 5/7/2025 3:07 PM, dbush wrote:
> On 5/7/2025 4:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/7/2025 1:38 PM, dbush wrote:
>>> On 5/7/2025 2:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 5/7/2025 1:18 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>> On 5/7/2025 1:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/6/2025 11:16 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>>> On 06/05/2025 16:38, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>>>> These aren't particularly difficult things to comprehend.  As I 
>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>> saying, you ought to show a lot more respect for people who are
>>>>>>>> mathematically educated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I concur.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As someone who is not particularly mathematically educated (I 
>>>>>>> have an A- level in the subject, but that's all), I tend to steer 
>>>>>>> well clear of mathematical debates, although I have occasionally 
>>>>>>> dipped a toe.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have *enormous* respect for those who know their tensors from 
>>>>>>> their manifolds and their conjectures from their eigenvalues, 
>>>>>>> even though it's all Greek to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But to understand the Turing proof requires little if any 
>>>>>>> mathematical knowledge. It requires only the capacity for clear 
>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having been on the receiving end of lengthy Usenet diatribes by 
>>>>>>> cranks in my own field, I don't hold out much hope for our 
>>>>>>> current culprits developing either the capacity for clear thought 
>>>>>>> or any measure of respect for expertise any time soon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nor do I believe they are capable of understanding proof by 
>>>>>>> contradiction, which is just about the easiest kind of proof 
>>>>>>> there is. In fact, the most surprising aspect of this whole 
>>>>>>> affair is that 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (according to Mike) Mr Olcott seems to have (correctly) spotted a 
>>>>>>> minor flaw in the proof published by Dr Linz. How can he get that 
>>>>>>> and not get contradiction? Proof by contradiction is /much/ easier.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION then proof by contradiction fails.
>>>>>
>>>>> False.  The contradiction is that HHH is found to not map the below 
>>>>> function after it is assumed that the below function is computable 
>>>>> and that HHH computes it:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of 
>>>>> instructions) X described as <X> with input Y:
>>>>>
>>>>> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes 
>>>>> the following mapping:
>>>>>
>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed 
>>>>> directly
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In other words you absolutely refuse to begin
>>>> to understand to notion of computing the mapping
>>>> from an input.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll let you respond to yourself:
>>>
>>> On 10/12/2024 8:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>  > That your rebuttals are pure bluster utterly bereft of any
>>>  > supporting reasoning is clear to all having sufficient
>>>  > technical understanding.
>>>
>>
>> In other words you absolutely refuse to understand
>> that functions computed by models of computation
>> are only allowed to derive outputs by applying
>> the steps of an algorithm to their actual inputs.
>>
> 
> No, it is you that doesn't understand that there is no requirement that 
> any mapping has an algorithm that can compute it.  

I know that. What you do not seem to know
is that an incoherent requirement does not
place any limit on computation.

That calculating the radius of a square circle
cannot be computed places no actual limit on computation.

The int sum(int x, int y) { return x + y; }

Requiring HHH to report on behavior that is different
that the behavior that its actual input actually specifies
is exactly the same as requiring sum(3,2) to report on
the sum of 5 + 7.

> The halting mapping 
> is one such mapping, as Linz and others have proved and as you have 
> *explicitly* agreed is correct.

I said they were correct ONLY ON THE BASIS OF A THE FALSE
ASSUMPTION that an input can actually do the opposite
of whatever value that its termination analyzer reports.

THAT I AGREED THAT THEY ARE CORRECT UNDER A FALSE
ASSUMPTION IS NOT AGREEING THAT THEY ARE CORRECT (nitwit?)

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#117920

Fromdbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-07 16:53 -0400
Message-ID<vvgh7l$15i5e$15@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117916
On 5/7/2025 4:39 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/7/2025 3:07 PM, dbush wrote:
>> On 5/7/2025 4:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/7/2025 1:38 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>> On 5/7/2025 2:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 5/7/2025 1:18 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/7/2025 1:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/6/2025 11:16 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 06/05/2025 16:38, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>>>>> These aren't particularly difficult things to comprehend.  As I 
>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>> saying, you ought to show a lot more respect for people who are
>>>>>>>>> mathematically educated.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I concur.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As someone who is not particularly mathematically educated (I 
>>>>>>>> have an A- level in the subject, but that's all), I tend to 
>>>>>>>> steer well clear of mathematical debates, although I have 
>>>>>>>> occasionally dipped a toe.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have *enormous* respect for those who know their tensors from 
>>>>>>>> their manifolds and their conjectures from their eigenvalues, 
>>>>>>>> even though it's all Greek to me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But to understand the Turing proof requires little if any 
>>>>>>>> mathematical knowledge. It requires only the capacity for clear 
>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Having been on the receiving end of lengthy Usenet diatribes by 
>>>>>>>> cranks in my own field, I don't hold out much hope for our 
>>>>>>>> current culprits developing either the capacity for clear 
>>>>>>>> thought or any measure of respect for expertise any time soon.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nor do I believe they are capable of understanding proof by 
>>>>>>>> contradiction, which is just about the easiest kind of proof 
>>>>>>>> there is. In fact, the most surprising aspect of this whole 
>>>>>>>> affair is that 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (according to Mike) Mr Olcott seems to have (correctly) spotted 
>>>>>>>> a minor flaw in the proof published by Dr Linz. How can he get 
>>>>>>>> that and not get contradiction? Proof by contradiction is /much/ 
>>>>>>>> easier.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION then proof by contradiction fails.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> False.  The contradiction is that HHH is found to not map the 
>>>>>> below function after it is assumed that the below function is 
>>>>>> computable and that HHH computes it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of 
>>>>>> instructions) X described as <X> with input Y:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes 
>>>>>> the following mapping:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
>>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed 
>>>>>> directly
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In other words you absolutely refuse to begin
>>>>> to understand to notion of computing the mapping
>>>>> from an input.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'll let you respond to yourself:
>>>>
>>>> On 10/12/2024 8:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>  > That your rebuttals are pure bluster utterly bereft of any
>>>>  > supporting reasoning is clear to all having sufficient
>>>>  > technical understanding.
>>>>
>>>
>>> In other words you absolutely refuse to understand
>>> that functions computed by models of computation
>>> are only allowed to derive outputs by applying
>>> the steps of an algorithm to their actual inputs.
>>>
>>
>> No, it is you that doesn't understand that there is no requirement 
>> that any mapping has an algorithm that can compute it. 
> 
> I know that. 

Then you know that when we assume the contrary for the halting function, 
we get a contradiction.

> What you do not seem to know
> is that an incoherent requirement does not
> place any limit on computation.

There is nothing incoherent about the halting function:


Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions) X 
described as <X> with input Y:

A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes the 
following mapping:

(<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
(<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed directly


> 
> That calculating the radius of a square circle
> cannot be computed places no actual limit on computation.
> 
> The int sum(int x, int y) { return x + y; }
> 
> Requiring HHH to report on behavior that is different
> that the behavior that its actual input actually specifies

False, as "DD" is a representation of the algorithm DD which halts when 
executed directly.  This is proven by UTM(DD) halting.

> is exactly the same as requiring sum(3,2) to report on
> the sum of 5 + 7.
> 
>> The halting mapping is one such mapping, as Linz and others have 
>> proved and as you have *explicitly* agreed is correct.
> 
> I said they were correct ONLY ON THE BASIS OF A THE FALSE
> ASSUMPTION that an input can actually do the opposite
> of whatever value that its termination analyzer reports.

That is not an assumption.  That is proven through a series of truth 
preserving operations.  This gives us a contradiction, proving the 
assumption that the halting function is computable is false, as Linz and 
others have proved and as you have *explicitly* agreed is correct.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#117924

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-07 15:58 -0500
Message-ID<vvghhp$1867c$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117920
On 5/7/2025 3:53 PM, dbush wrote:
> On 5/7/2025 4:39 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/7/2025 3:07 PM, dbush wrote:
>>> On 5/7/2025 4:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 5/7/2025 1:38 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>> On 5/7/2025 2:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/7/2025 1:18 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/7/2025 1:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/6/2025 11:16 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 06/05/2025 16:38, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> These aren't particularly difficult things to comprehend.  As 
>>>>>>>>>> I keep
>>>>>>>>>> saying, you ought to show a lot more respect for people who are
>>>>>>>>>> mathematically educated.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I concur.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As someone who is not particularly mathematically educated (I 
>>>>>>>>> have an A- level in the subject, but that's all), I tend to 
>>>>>>>>> steer well clear of mathematical debates, although I have 
>>>>>>>>> occasionally dipped a toe.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have *enormous* respect for those who know their tensors from 
>>>>>>>>> their manifolds and their conjectures from their eigenvalues, 
>>>>>>>>> even though it's all Greek to me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But to understand the Turing proof requires little if any 
>>>>>>>>> mathematical knowledge. It requires only the capacity for clear 
>>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Having been on the receiving end of lengthy Usenet diatribes by 
>>>>>>>>> cranks in my own field, I don't hold out much hope for our 
>>>>>>>>> current culprits developing either the capacity for clear 
>>>>>>>>> thought or any measure of respect for expertise any time soon.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nor do I believe they are capable of understanding proof by 
>>>>>>>>> contradiction, which is just about the easiest kind of proof 
>>>>>>>>> there is. In fact, the most surprising aspect of this whole 
>>>>>>>>> affair is that 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (according to Mike) Mr Olcott seems to have (correctly) spotted 
>>>>>>>>> a minor flaw in the proof published by Dr Linz. How can he get 
>>>>>>>>> that and not get contradiction? Proof by contradiction is / 
>>>>>>>>> much/ easier.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION then proof by contradiction fails.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> False.  The contradiction is that HHH is found to not map the 
>>>>>>> below function after it is assumed that the below function is 
>>>>>>> computable and that HHH computes it:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of 
>>>>>>> instructions) X described as <X> with input Y:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes 
>>>>>>> the following mapping:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
>>>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed 
>>>>>>> directly
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In other words you absolutely refuse to begin
>>>>>> to understand to notion of computing the mapping
>>>>>> from an input.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll let you respond to yourself:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/12/2024 8:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>  > That your rebuttals are pure bluster utterly bereft of any
>>>>>  > supporting reasoning is clear to all having sufficient
>>>>>  > technical understanding.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In other words you absolutely refuse to understand
>>>> that functions computed by models of computation
>>>> are only allowed to derive outputs by applying
>>>> the steps of an algorithm to their actual inputs.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, it is you that doesn't understand that there is no requirement 
>>> that any mapping has an algorithm that can compute it. 
>>
>> I know that. 
> 
> Then you know that when we assume the contrary for the halting function, 
> we get a contradiction.
> 
>> What you do not seem to know
>> is that an incoherent requirement does not
>> place any limit on computation.
> 
> There is nothing incoherent about the halting function:
> 
> 
> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions) X 
> described as <X> with input Y:
> 
> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes the 
> following mapping:
> 
> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed directly
> 
> 
>>
>> That calculating the radius of a square circle
>> cannot be computed places no actual limit on computation.
>>
>> The int sum(int x, int y) { return x + y; }
>>
>> Requiring HHH to report on behavior that is different
>> that the behavior that its actual input actually specifies
> 
> False, as "DD" is a representation of the algorithm DD which halts when 
> executed directly.  This is proven by UTM(DD) halting.
> 
>> is exactly the same as requiring sum(3,2) to report on
>> the sum of 5 + 7.
>>
>>> The halting mapping is one such mapping, as Linz and others have 
>>> proved and as you have *explicitly* agreed is correct.
>>
>> I said they were correct ONLY ON THE BASIS OF A THE FALSE
>> ASSUMPTION that an input can actually do the opposite
>> of whatever value that its termination analyzer reports.
> 
> That is not an assumption.  That is proven through a series of truth 
> preserving operations.  This gives us a contradiction, proving the 
> assumption that the halting function is computable is false, as Linz and 
> others have proved and as you have *explicitly* agreed is correct.
> 

There never has been any contradiction when we compute
the mapping from the finite string input to the behavior
that this input actually specifies.

The contradiction only comes when we "compute" the
mapping on the basis of a quote from a text book.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#117925

Fromdbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-07 17:03 -0400
Message-ID<vvghqo$15i5e$19@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117924
On 5/7/2025 4:58 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/7/2025 3:53 PM, dbush wrote:
>> On 5/7/2025 4:39 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/7/2025 3:07 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>> On 5/7/2025 4:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 5/7/2025 1:38 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/7/2025 2:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/7/2025 1:18 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2025 1:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/6/2025 11:16 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 06/05/2025 16:38, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> These aren't particularly difficult things to comprehend.  As 
>>>>>>>>>>> I keep
>>>>>>>>>>> saying, you ought to show a lot more respect for people who are
>>>>>>>>>>> mathematically educated.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I concur.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As someone who is not particularly mathematically educated (I 
>>>>>>>>>> have an A- level in the subject, but that's all), I tend to 
>>>>>>>>>> steer well clear of mathematical debates, although I have 
>>>>>>>>>> occasionally dipped a toe.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have *enormous* respect for those who know their tensors 
>>>>>>>>>> from their manifolds and their conjectures from their 
>>>>>>>>>> eigenvalues, even though it's all Greek to me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But to understand the Turing proof requires little if any 
>>>>>>>>>> mathematical knowledge. It requires only the capacity for 
>>>>>>>>>> clear thinking.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Having been on the receiving end of lengthy Usenet diatribes 
>>>>>>>>>> by cranks in my own field, I don't hold out much hope for our 
>>>>>>>>>> current culprits developing either the capacity for clear 
>>>>>>>>>> thought or any measure of respect for expertise any time soon.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nor do I believe they are capable of understanding proof by 
>>>>>>>>>> contradiction, which is just about the easiest kind of proof 
>>>>>>>>>> there is. In fact, the most surprising aspect of this whole 
>>>>>>>>>> affair is that 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (according to Mike) Mr Olcott seems to have (correctly) 
>>>>>>>>>> spotted a minor flaw in the proof published by Dr Linz. How 
>>>>>>>>>> can he get that and not get contradiction? Proof by 
>>>>>>>>>> contradiction is / much/ easier.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION then proof by contradiction fails.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> False.  The contradiction is that HHH is found to not map the 
>>>>>>>> below function after it is assumed that the below function is 
>>>>>>>> computable and that HHH computes it:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of 
>>>>>>>> instructions) X described as <X> with input Y:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that 
>>>>>>>> computes the following mapping:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
>>>>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when 
>>>>>>>> executed directly
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In other words you absolutely refuse to begin
>>>>>>> to understand to notion of computing the mapping
>>>>>>> from an input.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll let you respond to yourself:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/12/2024 8:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>  > That your rebuttals are pure bluster utterly bereft of any
>>>>>>  > supporting reasoning is clear to all having sufficient
>>>>>>  > technical understanding.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In other words you absolutely refuse to understand
>>>>> that functions computed by models of computation
>>>>> are only allowed to derive outputs by applying
>>>>> the steps of an algorithm to their actual inputs.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, it is you that doesn't understand that there is no requirement 
>>>> that any mapping has an algorithm that can compute it. 
>>>
>>> I know that. 
>>
>> Then you know that when we assume the contrary for the halting 
>> function, we get a contradiction.
>>
>>> What you do not seem to know
>>> is that an incoherent requirement does not
>>> place any limit on computation.
>>
>> There is nothing incoherent about the halting function:
>>
>>
>> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions) 
>> X described as <X> with input Y:
>>
>> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes the 
>> following mapping:
>>
>> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
>> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed 
>> directly
>>
>>
>>>
>>> That calculating the radius of a square circle
>>> cannot be computed places no actual limit on computation.
>>>
>>> The int sum(int x, int y) { return x + y; }
>>>
>>> Requiring HHH to report on behavior that is different
>>> that the behavior that its actual input actually specifies
>>
>> False, as "DD" is a representation of the algorithm DD which halts 
>> when executed directly.  This is proven by UTM(DD) halting.
>>
>>> is exactly the same as requiring sum(3,2) to report on
>>> the sum of 5 + 7.
>>>
>>>> The halting mapping is one such mapping, as Linz and others have 
>>>> proved and as you have *explicitly* agreed is correct.
>>>
>>> I said they were correct ONLY ON THE BASIS OF A THE FALSE
>>> ASSUMPTION that an input can actually do the opposite
>>> of whatever value that its termination analyzer reports.
>>
>> That is not an assumption.  That is proven through a series of truth 
>> preserving operations.  This gives us a contradiction, proving the 
>> assumption that the halting function is computable is false, as Linz 
>> and others have proved and as you have *explicitly* agreed is correct.
>>
> 
> There never has been any contradiction when we compute
> the mapping from the finite string input to the behavior
> that this input actually specifies.

And the behavior actually specified by the input, i.e. the immutable 
code of the function DD, the immutable code of the function HHH, and the 
immutable code of everything HHH calls down to the OS level, is to halt 
when executed directly or when actually correctly emulated by UTM.

Remember, it is assumed that the halting function is computable and that 
HHH computes it, so it follows that "DD" *is* the above description.

This means the halting mapping maps "DD" to halting, i.e. 1, but 
HHH(DD)==0, a contradiction.

This prove the assumption that the halting function is computable is 
false, as Linz and others have proved and as you have *explicitly* 
agreed is correct.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#117931

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-07 16:24 -0500
Message-ID<vvgj2r$18j1i$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117925
On 5/7/2025 4:03 PM, dbush wrote:
> On 5/7/2025 4:58 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/7/2025 3:53 PM, dbush wrote:
>>> On 5/7/2025 4:39 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 5/7/2025 3:07 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>> On 5/7/2025 4:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/7/2025 1:38 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/7/2025 2:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2025 1:18 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2025 1:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/6/2025 11:16 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 06/05/2025 16:38, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> These aren't particularly difficult things to comprehend.  
>>>>>>>>>>>> As I keep
>>>>>>>>>>>> saying, you ought to show a lot more respect for people who are
>>>>>>>>>>>> mathematically educated.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I concur.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As someone who is not particularly mathematically educated (I 
>>>>>>>>>>> have an A- level in the subject, but that's all), I tend to 
>>>>>>>>>>> steer well clear of mathematical debates, although I have 
>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally dipped a toe.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have *enormous* respect for those who know their tensors 
>>>>>>>>>>> from their manifolds and their conjectures from their 
>>>>>>>>>>> eigenvalues, even though it's all Greek to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But to understand the Turing proof requires little if any 
>>>>>>>>>>> mathematical knowledge. It requires only the capacity for 
>>>>>>>>>>> clear thinking.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Having been on the receiving end of lengthy Usenet diatribes 
>>>>>>>>>>> by cranks in my own field, I don't hold out much hope for our 
>>>>>>>>>>> current culprits developing either the capacity for clear 
>>>>>>>>>>> thought or any measure of respect for expertise any time soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nor do I believe they are capable of understanding proof by 
>>>>>>>>>>> contradiction, which is just about the easiest kind of proof 
>>>>>>>>>>> there is. In fact, the most surprising aspect of this whole 
>>>>>>>>>>> affair is that 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (according to Mike) Mr Olcott seems to have (correctly) 
>>>>>>>>>>> spotted a minor flaw in the proof published by Dr Linz. How 
>>>>>>>>>>> can he get that and not get contradiction? Proof by 
>>>>>>>>>>> contradiction is / much/ easier.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION then proof by contradiction fails.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> False.  The contradiction is that HHH is found to not map the 
>>>>>>>>> below function after it is assumed that the below function is 
>>>>>>>>> computable and that HHH computes it:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of 
>>>>>>>>> instructions) X described as <X> with input Y:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that 
>>>>>>>>> computes the following mapping:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
>>>>>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when 
>>>>>>>>> executed directly
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In other words you absolutely refuse to begin
>>>>>>>> to understand to notion of computing the mapping
>>>>>>>> from an input.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll let you respond to yourself:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/12/2024 8:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>  > That your rebuttals are pure bluster utterly bereft of any
>>>>>>>  > supporting reasoning is clear to all having sufficient
>>>>>>>  > technical understanding.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In other words you absolutely refuse to understand
>>>>>> that functions computed by models of computation
>>>>>> are only allowed to derive outputs by applying
>>>>>> the steps of an algorithm to their actual inputs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it is you that doesn't understand that there is no requirement 
>>>>> that any mapping has an algorithm that can compute it. 
>>>>
>>>> I know that. 
>>>
>>> Then you know that when we assume the contrary for the halting 
>>> function, we get a contradiction.
>>>
>>>> What you do not seem to know
>>>> is that an incoherent requirement does not
>>>> place any limit on computation.
>>>
>>> There is nothing incoherent about the halting function:
>>>
>>>
>>> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions) 
>>> X described as <X> with input Y:
>>>
>>> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes the 
>>> following mapping:
>>>
>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed 
>>> directly
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> That calculating the radius of a square circle
>>>> cannot be computed places no actual limit on computation.
>>>>
>>>> The int sum(int x, int y) { return x + y; }
>>>>
>>>> Requiring HHH to report on behavior that is different
>>>> that the behavior that its actual input actually specifies
>>>
>>> False, as "DD" is a representation of the algorithm DD which halts 
>>> when executed directly.  This is proven by UTM(DD) halting.
>>>
>>>> is exactly the same as requiring sum(3,2) to report on
>>>> the sum of 5 + 7.
>>>>
>>>>> The halting mapping is one such mapping, as Linz and others have 
>>>>> proved and as you have *explicitly* agreed is correct.
>>>>
>>>> I said they were correct ONLY ON THE BASIS OF A THE FALSE
>>>> ASSUMPTION that an input can actually do the opposite
>>>> of whatever value that its termination analyzer reports.
>>>
>>> That is not an assumption.  That is proven through a series of truth 
>>> preserving operations.  This gives us a contradiction, proving the 
>>> assumption that the halting function is computable is false, as Linz 
>>> and others have proved and as you have *explicitly* agreed is correct.
>>>
>>
>> There never has been any contradiction when we compute
>> the mapping from the finite string input to the behavior
>> that this input actually specifies.
> 
> And the behavior actually specified by the input, i.e. the immutable 
> code of the function DD, the immutable code of the function HHH, and the 
> immutable code of everything HHH calls down to the OS level, is to halt 
> when executed directly or when actually correctly emulated by UTM.
> 

THAT IS NOT THE BEHAVIOR THAT THE INPUT TO HHH(DD) SPECIFIES
PROVING THAT IS THE WRONG BEHAVIOR TO MEASURE.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#117933

Fromdbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-07 17:29 -0400
Message-ID<vvgjbi$15i5e$22@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117931
On 5/7/2025 5:24 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 5/7/2025 4:03 PM, dbush wrote:
>> On 5/7/2025 4:58 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 5/7/2025 3:53 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>> On 5/7/2025 4:39 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 5/7/2025 3:07 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/7/2025 4:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/7/2025 1:38 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2025 2:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2025 1:18 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2025 1:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/6/2025 11:16 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 06/05/2025 16:38, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> These aren't particularly difficult things to comprehend. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>> saying, you ought to show a lot more respect for people who 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mathematically educated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I concur.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As someone who is not particularly mathematically educated 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (I have an A- level in the subject, but that's all), I tend 
>>>>>>>>>>>> to steer well clear of mathematical debates, although I have 
>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally dipped a toe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have *enormous* respect for those who know their tensors 
>>>>>>>>>>>> from their manifolds and their conjectures from their 
>>>>>>>>>>>> eigenvalues, even though it's all Greek to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But to understand the Turing proof requires little if any 
>>>>>>>>>>>> mathematical knowledge. It requires only the capacity for 
>>>>>>>>>>>> clear thinking.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Having been on the receiving end of lengthy Usenet diatribes 
>>>>>>>>>>>> by cranks in my own field, I don't hold out much hope for 
>>>>>>>>>>>> our current culprits developing either the capacity for 
>>>>>>>>>>>> clear thought or any measure of respect for expertise any 
>>>>>>>>>>>> time soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nor do I believe they are capable of understanding proof by 
>>>>>>>>>>>> contradiction, which is just about the easiest kind of proof 
>>>>>>>>>>>> there is. In fact, the most surprising aspect of this whole 
>>>>>>>>>>>> affair is that 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (according to Mike) Mr Olcott seems to have (correctly) 
>>>>>>>>>>>> spotted a minor flaw in the proof published by Dr Linz. How 
>>>>>>>>>>>> can he get that and not get contradiction? Proof by 
>>>>>>>>>>>> contradiction is / much/ easier.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION then proof by contradiction 
>>>>>>>>>>> fails.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> False.  The contradiction is that HHH is found to not map the 
>>>>>>>>>> below function after it is assumed that the below function is 
>>>>>>>>>> computable and that HHH computes it:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of 
>>>>>>>>>> instructions) X described as <X> with input Y:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that 
>>>>>>>>>> computes the following mapping:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed 
>>>>>>>>>> directly
>>>>>>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when 
>>>>>>>>>> executed directly
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In other words you absolutely refuse to begin
>>>>>>>>> to understand to notion of computing the mapping
>>>>>>>>> from an input.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll let you respond to yourself:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/12/2024 8:35 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>  > That your rebuttals are pure bluster utterly bereft of any
>>>>>>>>  > supporting reasoning is clear to all having sufficient
>>>>>>>>  > technical understanding.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In other words you absolutely refuse to understand
>>>>>>> that functions computed by models of computation
>>>>>>> are only allowed to derive outputs by applying
>>>>>>> the steps of an algorithm to their actual inputs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it is you that doesn't understand that there is no requirement 
>>>>>> that any mapping has an algorithm that can compute it. 
>>>>>
>>>>> I know that. 
>>>>
>>>> Then you know that when we assume the contrary for the halting 
>>>> function, we get a contradiction.
>>>>
>>>>> What you do not seem to know
>>>>> is that an incoherent requirement does not
>>>>> place any limit on computation.
>>>>
>>>> There is nothing incoherent about the halting function:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of 
>>>> instructions) X described as <X> with input Y:
>>>>
>>>> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that computes 
>>>> the following mapping:
>>>>
>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly
>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed 
>>>> directly
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That calculating the radius of a square circle
>>>>> cannot be computed places no actual limit on computation.
>>>>>
>>>>> The int sum(int x, int y) { return x + y; }
>>>>>
>>>>> Requiring HHH to report on behavior that is different
>>>>> that the behavior that its actual input actually specifies
>>>>
>>>> False, as "DD" is a representation of the algorithm DD which halts 
>>>> when executed directly.  This is proven by UTM(DD) halting.
>>>>
>>>>> is exactly the same as requiring sum(3,2) to report on
>>>>> the sum of 5 + 7.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The halting mapping is one such mapping, as Linz and others have 
>>>>>> proved and as you have *explicitly* agreed is correct.
>>>>>
>>>>> I said they were correct ONLY ON THE BASIS OF A THE FALSE
>>>>> ASSUMPTION that an input can actually do the opposite
>>>>> of whatever value that its termination analyzer reports.
>>>>
>>>> That is not an assumption.  That is proven through a series of truth 
>>>> preserving operations.  This gives us a contradiction, proving the 
>>>> assumption that the halting function is computable is false, as Linz 
>>>> and others have proved and as you have *explicitly* agreed is correct.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There never has been any contradiction when we compute
>>> the mapping from the finite string input to the behavior
>>> that this input actually specifies.
>>
>> And the behavior actually specified by the input, i.e. the immutable 
>> code of the function DD, the immutable code of the function HHH, and 
>> the immutable code of everything HHH calls down to the OS level, is to 
>> halt when executed directly or when actually correctly emulated by UTM.
>>
> 
> THAT IS NOT THE BEHAVIOR THAT THE INPUT TO HHH(DD) SPECIFIES 

It's the same as the input to UTM(DD), which shows that it halts, so YES 
that is the behavior it specifies.

>> Remember, it is assumed that the halting function is computable and that 
>> HHH computes it, so it follows that "DD" *is* the above description.

Your lack of a rebuttal here is your admission that it *is* what the 
input specifies.

>> 
>> This means the halting mapping maps "DD" to halting, i.e. 1, but 
>> HHH(DD)==0, a contradiction.
>> 
>> This prove the assumption that the halting function is computable is 
>> false, as Linz and others have proved and as you have *explicitly* 
>> agreed is correct.

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#117887

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-07 13:03 -0500
Message-ID<vvg78k$15e69$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117701
On 5/6/2025 11:16 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> On 06/05/2025 16:38, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> These aren't particularly difficult things to comprehend.  As I keep
>> saying, you ought to show a lot more respect for people who are
>> mathematically educated.
> 
> I concur.
> 
> As someone who is not particularly mathematically educated (I have an A- 
> level in the subject, but that's all), I tend to steer well clear of 
> mathematical debates, although I have occasionally dipped a toe.
> 
> I have *enormous* respect for those who know their tensors from their 
> manifolds and their conjectures from their eigenvalues, even though it's 
> all Greek to me.
> 
> But to understand the Turing proof requires little if any mathematical 
> knowledge. It requires only the capacity for clear thinking.
> 
> Having been on the receiving end of lengthy Usenet diatribes by cranks 
> in my own field, I don't hold out much hope for our current culprits 
> developing either the capacity for clear thought or any measure of 
> respect for expertise any time soon.
> 
> Nor do I believe they are capable of understanding proof by 
> contradiction, which is just about the easiest kind of proof there is. 
> In fact, the most surprising aspect of this whole affair is that 

> (according to Mike) Mr Olcott seems to have (correctly) spotted a minor 
> flaw in the proof published by Dr Linz. How can he get that and not get 
> contradiction? Proof by contradiction is /much/ easier.
> 

https://www.liarparadox.org/Linz_Proof.pdf
The flaw is on the top of page 3 where
there are two q0 start states in the same sequence
of state transitions.

I encode that in this easier to understand notation.

When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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#118027

FromMikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Date2025-05-08 11:38 +0300
Message-ID<vvhqi7$1l7ne$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117887
On 2025-05-07 18:03:00 +0000, olcott said:

> On 5/6/2025 11:16 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 06/05/2025 16:38, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> These aren't particularly difficult things to comprehend.  As I keep
>>> saying, you ought to show a lot more respect for people who are
>>> mathematically educated.
>> 
>> I concur.
>> 
>> As someone who is not particularly mathematically educated (I have an 
>> A- level in the subject, but that's all), I tend to steer well clear of 
>> mathematical debates, although I have occasionally dipped a toe.
>> 
>> I have *enormous* respect for those who know their tensors from their 
>> manifolds and their conjectures from their eigenvalues, even though 
>> it's all Greek to me.
>> 
>> But to understand the Turing proof requires little if any mathematical 
>> knowledge. It requires only the capacity for clear thinking.
>> 
>> Having been on the receiving end of lengthy Usenet diatribes by cranks 
>> in my own field, I don't hold out much hope for our current culprits 
>> developing either the capacity for clear thought or any measure of 
>> respect for expertise any time soon.
>> 
>> Nor do I believe they are capable of understanding proof by 
>> contradiction, which is just about the easiest kind of proof there is. 
>> In fact, the most surprising aspect of this whole affair is that
> 
>> (according to Mike) Mr Olcott seems to have (correctly) spotted a minor 
>> flaw in the proof published by Dr Linz. How can he get that and not get 
>> contradiction? Proof by contradiction is /much/ easier.
>> 
> 
> https://www.liarparadox.org/Linz_Proof.pdf
> The flaw is on the top of page 3 where
> there are two q0 start states in the same sequence
> of state transitions.

There is no page 3 there, only unnumbered pages.

No, there is not. Every Turing machine has only one start state and
q0 is that state and no other. Once the Turing machine has started
the start state is like any other state, so a Turing machine may make
a transition to the start state and continue from there.

But going back to the start state is not useful in this context. The
presentation would be clearer if Linz had used a different start state
for each Turing machine or explicitly renamed the start state of H'
when constructing Ĥ.

> I encode that in this easier to understand notation.
> 
> When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn

It is easy to understand that that does not encode anything.

It is also easy to understand that you are trying the deception
known as "fallacy fallacy".

-- 
Mikko

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#117704

Fromolcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-06 12:06 -0500
Message-ID<vvdfi3$3cbpq$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#117698
On 5/6/2025 10:38 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/6/2025 3:17 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> [ Followup-To: set ]
> 
>>> In comp.theory olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> [ .... ]
> 
>>>> When we begin with truth and only apply truth preserving
>>>> operations then WE NECESSARILY MUST END UP WITH TRUTH.
> 
>>> You will necessarily end up with only a subset of truth, no matter how
>>> shouty you are in writing it.  You'll also end up with undecidability,
>>> no matter how hard you try to pretend it isn't there.
> 
>>>> When we ALWAYS end up with TRUTH then we NEVER end up with
>>>> UNDECIDABILITY.
> 
>>> Shut your eyes, and you won't see it.
> 
>> Try to provide one simple concrete example where we begin with truth
>> and only apply truth preserving operations and end up with
>> undecidability.
> 
> There is no need to provide examples for rigorously proven mathematical
> theorems, in particular for Gödel's incompleteness theorem.  I don't go
> around providing examples for 2 + 2 = 4 either.
> 

This is proven completely true entirely on the basis of
the meaning of its words:

When True(x) is defined to mean that x can be derived
by applying truth preserving operations to basic facts
that are stipulated to be true ONLY TRUTH CAN BE DERIVED.

Everything (including random gibberish) is divided into
True(x) or ~True(x). Since the scope of this system
includes all general knowledge that can be expressed
using language.

True(x) returns false for unknown and unknowable truths.
Thus True(x) is a membership algorithm that verifies
whether or not x is in the body of general knowledge
that can be expressed using language.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer

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