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Groups > comp.theory > #35756 > unrolled thread
| Started by | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2021-07-05 11:28 -0500 |
| Last post | 2021-07-08 20:37 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 334 — 17 participants |
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How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 11:28 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 13:06 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 12:17 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 13:54 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 14:30 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 15:54 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-05 22:34 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 16:40 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 17:48 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 17:41 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 19:14 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-06 00:15 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 19:04 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 20:45 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 20:01 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 21:22 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 21:37 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 06:38 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 04:14 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-06 03:33 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 22:06 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-06 13:39 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 10:59 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 02:55 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:29 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 11:33 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 11:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 13:28 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 11:32 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 14:16 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:32 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 02:56 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 21:00 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V2) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 16:32 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 11:24 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 10:53 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 13:10 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 11:59 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 14:51 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 13:47 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 14:35 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 16:49 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 20:18 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 20:24 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 21:45 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 21:04 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 22:45 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 22:03 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 06:56 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 07:46 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 23:39 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 22:54 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-08 22:15 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 23:26 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-08 22:44 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 23:53 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 22:10 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 22:53 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 06:58 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 07:58 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 06:12 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 08:35 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 07:12 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 09:18 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 07:41 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-08 17:07 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 11:24 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 09:55 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-08 23:52 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 20:07 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-09 02:48 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 21:21 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 21:36 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-09 12:30 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 05:56 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 08:59 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2021-07-09 17:59 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 20:32 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 19:28 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-09 18:06 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 12:47 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-09 20:16 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 14:24 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 12:33 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-09 22:08 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 16:13 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 12:40 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 08:54 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 15:30 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 10:00 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 16:15 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 10:21 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 16:25 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 08:30 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 16:33 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 08:34 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 08:45 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 11:08 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 17:34 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ]( You and I ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 11:42 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ]( You and I ) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 10:54 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ]( You and I ) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 11:23 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ]( You and I ) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 11:41 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ]( You and I ) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 13:15 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 08:24 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 15:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2021-07-11 00:29 +0000
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 19:57 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 20:33 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 22:59 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-09 23:10 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 17:41 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 12:28 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 10:50 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-09 22:59 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 17:29 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-10 00:23 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 18:31 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-10 01:13 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 19:33 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-11 01:57 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 20:00 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-11 03:08 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 22:13 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 23:13 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-11 07:14 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 00:27 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 01:07 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 01:39 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 01:42 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 09:16 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 09:16 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-11 11:10 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 09:30 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-11 20:04 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ]( Flibble agrees ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 14:47 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-11 22:35 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 09:13 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-12 09:20 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Theperfect Parrotsstore <theperfectparrotsstore@gmail.com> - 2021-07-12 08:23 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 12:35 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-12 12:39 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 17:18 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-12 18:00 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 08:41 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 07:57 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 09:42 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 07:54 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 10:02 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-13 22:23 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 15:52 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2021-07-14 22:09 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 16:47 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-14 21:03 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-14 20:57 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 22:12 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-14 21:57 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 01:44 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 09:17 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-15 21:04 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 16:31 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 15:08 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 15:18 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 16:13 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] "dklei...@gmail.com" <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 16:54 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 19:42 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-17 07:25 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-16 01:17 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 19:52 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-16 03:09 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 22:03 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-17 01:43 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 19:07 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 19:29 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 19:54 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 22:34 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 21:11 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 21:48 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-17 07:44 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-18 02:27 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-17 18:43 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-18 03:45 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-17 23:05 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 10:11 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-16 22:52 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 13:12 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-16 22:39 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 09:08 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 10:33 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 09:36 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 10:43 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 10:11 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 17:21 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 16:44 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 17:55 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 17:08 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 18:50 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 18:20 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 19:32 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 19:02 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 20:11 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 19:42 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 20:52 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 20:07 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 21:14 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 20:30 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 21:42 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-13 22:29 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 15:53 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-14 15:01 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 16:39 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-14 21:06 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-13 23:13 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 10:07 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-14 21:35 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-12 21:20 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-12 21:15 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-12 21:10 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 06:54 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ suspended not halted ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 09:14 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-09 20:39 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 20:08 -0700
The (binary decision) tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 22:30 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 20:42 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 22:18 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-09 21:46 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 23:01 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-09 22:28 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 23:45 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-09 23:24 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 22:32 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 22:39 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 23:01 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 09:25 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-10 09:12 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ type mismatch error ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 10:32 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ type mismatch error ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-10 09:48 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ type mismatch error ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 11:19 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 21:51 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 21:59 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 21:01 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 21:17 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 23:24 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 23:50 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 23:43 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 23:40 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 20:17 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 20:31 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 21:51 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 21:07 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 22:51 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 22:04 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 07:02 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ global halt decider ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 08:29 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ global halt decider ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-09 00:05 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ global halt decider ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 23:27 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ global halt decider ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-09 05:53 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ global halt decider ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 09:02 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 20:59 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 23:15 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-06 13:07 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 08:27 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 07:42 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 10:26 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:02 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 02:56 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 21:59 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-06 21:18 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 15:41 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-06 23:18 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 16:13 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 18:38 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 18:44 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 16:53 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 18:56 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 17:46 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 19:50 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 17:56 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 20:18 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 18:37 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 20:43 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 18:55 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 19:06 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:19 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 08:01 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 20:47 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 03:23 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 22:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 00:55 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 09:35 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 09:29 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 16:31 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 10:53 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 17:33 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 12:06 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 20:28 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 14:54 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 10:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 12:21 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2021-07-07 19:05 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 13:30 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-07 14:28 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 16:44 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 15:50 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 18:09 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 20:22 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:08 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 14:31 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:35 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 11:46 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 04:50 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 09:47 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 20:26 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 17:34 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 20:15 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 22:00 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 21:08 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 22:51 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 14:18 +0200
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 14:39 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 14:52 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 17:05 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 15:41 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 18:04 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 16:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 18:34 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] "dklei...@gmail.com" <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 17:03 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 19:14 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 17:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 17:26 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 02:41 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 02:50 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-08 14:08 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 20:37 -0700
Page 4 of 17 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 … 17 Next page →
| From | Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-08 06:12 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) |
| Message-ID | <b6d70511-28db-4e7a-9a53-95967e566ee0n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #35939 |
dear petey pooh, abortion is bad: A global halt decider works just like the local halt decider except that every computation is its input, thus P(P) is aborted. the only powerful words of that petey pooh paragraph that everyone understands are "global" and "local". "every computation" is a very broad conception.
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-08 08:35 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) |
| Message-ID | <Iu2dnYdqd4-FYnv9nZ2dnUU7-IvNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #35940 |
On 7/8/2021 8:12 AM, Daniel Pehoushek wrote: > dear petey pooh, abortion is bad: > > A global halt decider works > just like the local halt decider > except that every computation > is its input, > thus P(P) > is aborted. > > the only powerful words of that petey pooh paragraph > that everyone understands are "global" and "local". > "every computation" is a very broad conception. > The distinction is between a global halt decider and a local halt decider and a global partial halt decider and a local partial halt decider. To refute the halting problem proofs I only need a partial halt decider that correctly decides the "impossible" HP counter-example templates. -- Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Einstein
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-08 07:12 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) |
| Message-ID | <4a4a9879-0636-428b-bdcd-792c8a724ec9n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #35942 |
On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 9:35:27 AM UTC-4, olcott wrote: > On 7/8/2021 8:12 AM, Daniel Pehoushek wrote: > > dear petey pooh, abortion is bad: > > > > A global halt decider works > > just like the local halt decider > > except that every computation > > is its input, > > thus P(P) > > is aborted. > > > > the only powerful words of that petey pooh paragraph > > that everyone understands are "global" and "local". > > "every computation" is a very broad conception. > > > The distinction is between a global halt decider and a local halt > decider and a global partial halt decider and a local partial halt > decider. To refute the halting problem proofs I only need a partial halt > decider that correctly decides the "impossible" HP counter-example > templates. > -- > Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott > > "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre > minds." Einstein i substituted peteypooh for "global" and "pooh" for local and then enjoyed the reading with zero confusion. and, dear petey pooh, everybody knows abortion is bad. why do you do so much of it? +daniel The peteypooh halt decider would abort H(⟨Ĥ⟩, ⟨Ĥ⟩) its input before its input ever reached either final state. H and the embedded halt decider are both designed to abort their input as soon as they detect that the pure simulation of their input would never halt. A peteypooh halt decider is always one step ahead of any input. A pooh halt decider is sometimes one step behind its input. The issue of a computation halting even though the halt decider decides that it never halts is an issue of timing. The halt decider is only required to get its inputs correctly. If the later part of a non-halting computation is presented to the halt decider it does what it is supposed to do and aborts this input. It can't do anything with the earlier part because the earlier part was not submitted as input. A peteypooh halt decider eliminates this issue.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-08 09:18 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) |
| Message-ID | <fI2dnQ2d-MDPlHr9nZ2dnUU7-aHNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #35944 |
On 7/8/2021 9:12 AM, Daniel Pehoushek wrote:
> On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 9:35:27 AM UTC-4, olcott wrote:
>> On 7/8/2021 8:12 AM, Daniel Pehoushek wrote:
>>> dear petey pooh, abortion is bad:
>>>
>>> A global halt decider works
>>> just like the local halt decider
>>> except that every computation
>>> is its input,
>>> thus P(P)
>>> is aborted.
>>>
>>> the only powerful words of that petey pooh paragraph
>>> that everyone understands are "global" and "local".
>>> "every computation" is a very broad conception.
>>>
>> The distinction is between a global halt decider and a local halt
>> decider and a global partial halt decider and a local partial halt
>> decider. To refute the halting problem proofs I only need a partial halt
>> decider that correctly decides the "impossible" HP counter-example
>> templates.
>> --
>> Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott
>>
>> "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
>> minds." Einstein
>
> i substituted peteypooh for "global" and "pooh" for local
> and then enjoyed the reading with zero confusion.
> and, dear petey pooh, everybody knows abortion is bad.
> why do you do so much of it? +daniel
>
> The peteypooh halt decider would abort H(⟨Ĥ⟩, ⟨Ĥ⟩) its input before its
> input ever reached either final state.
>
> H and the embedded halt decider are both designed to abort their input
> as soon as they detect that the pure simulation of their input would
> never halt. A peteypooh halt decider is always one step ahead of any input.
> A pooh halt decider is sometimes one step behind its input.
>
> The issue of a computation halting even though the halt decider decides
> that it never halts is an issue of timing.
>
> The halt decider is only required to get its inputs correctly. If the
> later part of a non-halting computation is presented to the halt decider
> it does what it is supposed to do and aborts this input.
>
> It can't do anything with the earlier part because the earlier part was
> not submitted as input. A peteypooh halt decider eliminates this issue.
>
We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting
problem halt deciding because we know that when the pure simulation of
the machine description on its input would never halt then we know that
the execution of this machine on its input would ever halt.
int main()
{
P(P);
}
Global halts must abort the above computation otherwise it never halts.
--
Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds." Einstein
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| From | Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-08 07:41 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) |
| Message-ID | <af00a77d-a5b1-4346-846f-94de0995d1a6n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #35945 |
error corrected the phrases "we know" and "global".
someone might believe that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting
problem halt deciding because someone believes that when the pure simulation of
the machine description on its input would never halt then someone believes that
the execution of this machine on its input would ever halt.
int main()
{
P(P);
}
peteypooh halts must abort the above computation otherwise it never halts.
dear pete, abortion really is bad. do not do it anymore.
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| From | Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-08 17:07 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) |
| Message-ID | <87bl7c4wnv.fsf@bsb.me.uk> |
| In reply to | #35945 |
olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: > We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting > problem halt deciding... We can know it isn't because you said it isn't: "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of non-halting computations *and a few more*." (emphasis mine) -- Ben.
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-08 11:24 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) |
| Message-ID | <XKudnV8wlNA1u3r9nZ2dnUU7-N_NnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #35947 |
On 7/8/2021 11:07 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: > olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: > >> We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting >> problem halt deciding... > > We can know it isn't because you said it isn't: > > "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of > non-halting computations *and a few more*." (emphasis mine) > My earlier statement is corrected below: [Axiom] When the pure simulation of the machine description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P on its input I never halts we know that P(I) never halts. The second half of above criteria is the same criteria that the conventional halting problem proofs use. It is known to be computationally equivalent to the first half. When we apply the first half of that criteria to the set of halting computations using a simulating halt decider it decides that they halt. When we apply the first half of that criteria to the set of non-halting computations using a simulating halt decider it decides that they do not halt. When we apply the first half of that criteria to the set of halting problem proof counter-example templates using a simulating halt decider it decides that they do not halt. -- Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Einstein
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-08 09:55 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) |
| Message-ID | <2bb0e341-aea0-45ae-9378-9708c8cd2668n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #35950 |
My earlier statement is corrected below: i strenuously object to pete o's usage of the collective "we". it is both inaccurate and misleading to the reader. "we know" is bullshit. [Axiom] When the pure simulation of the machine description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P on its input I never halts we know that P(I) never halts. The second half of above criteria is the same criteria that the conventional halting problem proofs use. It is known to be computationally equivalent to the first half. When we apply the first half of that criteria to the set of halting computations using a simulating halt decider it decides that they halt. When we apply the first half of that criteria to the set of non-halting computations using a simulating halt decider it decides that they do not halt. When we apply the first half of that criteria to the set of halting problem proof counter-example templates using a simulating halt decider it decides that they do not halt.
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| From | Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-08 23:52 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) |
| Message-ID | <87v95k2zaw.fsf@bsb.me.uk> |
| In reply to | #35950 |
olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: > On 7/8/2021 11:07 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >> >>> We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting >>> problem halt deciding... >> We can know it isn't because you said it isn't: >> "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of >> non-halting computations *and a few more*." (emphasis mine) > > My earlier statement is corrected below: So right up until a few days ago you knew your "adapted" criterion defined different accept and reject set to the halting problem and you were just pretending they were the same. But now the two criteria (yours and halting) really do define exactly the same sets, yes? So we can just forget about all your fiddly definitions using simulations and waffle and use the usual criterion, yes? I'd really like a non-waffle answer to this. If your halting is now what the world means by halting you need to say so. So rather than being right about the POOH problem you are just wrong about halting, right? Do you now, after more than 20 years, accept that every input to the halting problem has a correct yes/no answer and that yes is the correct answer only for those inputs that represent halting computations, and no is the correct answer for the rest? (Expecting a direct answer to any of these questions is the triumph of hope over experience.) -- Ben.
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-08 20:07 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) |
| Message-ID | <YuKdnV6NAJXPPHr9nZ2dnUU7-W3NnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #35957 |
On 7/8/2021 5:52 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: > olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: > >> On 7/8/2021 11:07 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>> >>>> We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting >>>> problem halt deciding... >>> We can know it isn't because you said it isn't: >>> "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of >>> non-halting computations *and a few more*." (emphasis mine) >> >> My earlier statement is corrected below: > > So right up until a few days ago you knew your "adapted" criterion > defined different accept and reject set to the halting problem and you > were just pretending they were the same. > The words have continually gotten clearer in my mind. [Halt Deciding Axiom] When the pure simulation of the machine description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P on its input I never halts we know that P(I) never halts. Every input that never halts while the simulating halt decider remains a pure simulator is an input that never halts. A non-halting input is an input that would never halt without interference by the simulating halt decider. If the halt decider merely watches what the input program does and can see that it will never halt, then it can stop simulating this input and report that it never halts. The key thing here is that the pathological self-reference(olcott 2004) is eliminated from the halting problem when the simulating halt decider simply watches what its input does without any interference what-so-ever. When the simulating halt decider does this then it can ignore its own behavior in its halt status analysis, thus eliminating the confounding feedback loop. Halting Problem Final Conclusion Peter Olcott Sep 5, 2004, 11:21:57 AM The Liar Paradox can be shown to be nothing more than a incorrectly formed statement because of its pathological self-reference. The Halting Problem can only exist because of this same sort of pathological self-reference. https://groups.google.com/g/comp.theory/c/RO9Z9eCabeE/m/Ka8-xS2rdEEJ > But now the two criteria (yours and halting) really do define exactly > the same sets, yes? So we can just forget about all your fiddly > definitions using simulations and waffle and use the usual criterion, > yes? I'd really like a non-waffle answer to this. If your halting is > now what the world means by halting you need to say so. > > So rather than being right about the POOH problem you are just wrong > about halting, right? Do you now, after more than 20 years, accept that > every input to the halting problem has a correct yes/no answer and that > yes is the correct answer only for those inputs that represent halting > computations, and no is the correct answer for the rest? > > (Expecting a direct answer to any of these questions is the triumph of > hope over experience.) > -- Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Einstein
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| From | Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-09 02:48 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) |
| Message-ID | <87k0m02r5r.fsf@bsb.me.uk> |
| In reply to | #35958 |
olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: > On 7/8/2021 5:52 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >> >>> On 7/8/2021 11:07 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>>> >>>>> We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting >>>>> problem halt deciding... >>>> We can know it isn't because you said it isn't: >>>> "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of >>>> non-halting computations *and a few more*." (emphasis mine) >>> >>> My earlier statement is corrected below: >> So right up until a few days ago you knew your "adapted" criterion >> defined different accept and reject set to the halting problem and you >> were just pretending they were the same. > > The words have continually gotten clearer in my mind. So you have not changed the meaning, only clarified the expression. The two criteria, yours and halting, do define different accept/reject sets as you said explicitly in the quote I posted. So which of your statements is the one you want to stand by? "We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting problem" or "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of non-halting computations and a few more." It should be obvious to others why this is the fence you are sitting on. Is it comfy? -- Ben.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-08 21:21 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <aPmdnQOOhJ88L3r9nZ2dnUU7-L-dnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #35959 |
On 7/8/2021 8:48 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: > olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: > >> On 7/8/2021 5:52 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>> >>>> On 7/8/2021 11:07 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>>>> >>>>>> We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting >>>>>> problem halt deciding... >>>>> We can know it isn't because you said it isn't: >>>>> "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of >>>>> non-halting computations *and a few more*." (emphasis mine) >>>> >>>> My earlier statement is corrected below: >>> So right up until a few days ago you knew your "adapted" criterion >>> defined different accept and reject set to the halting problem and you >>> were just pretending they were the same. >> >> The words have continually gotten clearer in my mind. > > So you have not changed the meaning, only clarified the expression. The > two criteria, yours and halting, do define different accept/reject sets > as you said explicitly in the quote I posted. > [Halt Deciding Axiom] When the pure simulation of the machine description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P on its input I never halts we know that P(I) never halts. This is a conventional axiom. When the simulating halt decider has detected that the pure simulation of its input ⟨P⟩ never halts on its input I it has detected an instance an input that never halts according to the above purely conventional axiom. > So which of your statements is the one you want to stand by? > > "We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting > problem" > > or > > "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of > non-halting computations and a few more." > > It should be obvious to others why this is the fence you are sitting on. > Is it comfy? > The first one. When we apply the conventional halt deciding criteria to the halting problem counter-example templates using a simulating halt decider, the simulating halt decider can correctly decide halting on these inputs because it can totally ignore its own behavior while it acts as a pure simulator, thus eliminating the pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) from the halting problem. comp.theory Peter Olcott Sep 5, 2004, 11:21:57 AM [Halting Problem Final Conclusion] The Liar Paradox can be shown to be nothing more than a incorrectly formed statement because of its pathological self-reference. The Halting Problem can only exist because of this same sort of pathological self-reference. https://groups.google.com/g/comp.theory/c/RO9Z9eCabeE/m/Ka8-xS2rdEEJ 17 years later I am finally getting around to finishing this. You have been talking to me far longer than anyone else, since 2006: [Re: A Possible "solution" to the Halting Problem] On 10/17/2006 7:03 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: > "Peter Olcott" <NoSpam@SeeScreen.com> writes: -- Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Einstein
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-08 21:36 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <UI6dneCLY8myK3r9nZ2dnUU7-W-dnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #35961 |
On 7/8/2021 9:21 PM, olcott wrote: > On 7/8/2021 8:48 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >> >>> On 7/8/2021 5:52 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>>> >>>>> On 7/8/2021 11:07 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>>>>> >>>>>>> We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the >>>>>>> halting >>>>>>> problem halt deciding... >>>>>> We can know it isn't because you said it isn't: >>>>>> "This maps to every element of the conventional halting >>>>>> problem set of >>>>>> non-halting computations *and a few more*." (emphasis mine) >>>>> >>>>> My earlier statement is corrected below: >>>> So right up until a few days ago you knew your "adapted" criterion >>>> defined different accept and reject set to the halting problem and you >>>> were just pretending they were the same. >>> >>> The words have continually gotten clearer in my mind. >> >> So you have not changed the meaning, only clarified the expression. The >> two criteria, yours and halting, do define different accept/reject sets >> as you said explicitly in the quote I posted. >> > > [Halt Deciding Axiom] When the pure simulation of the machine > description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P on its input I never halts we know that > P(I) never halts. This is a conventional axiom. > > When the simulating halt decider has detected that the pure simulation > of its input ⟨P⟩ never halts on its input I it has detected an instance > an input that never halts according to the above purely conventional axiom. > >> So which of your statements is the one you want to stand by? >> >> "We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting >> problem" >> >> or >> >> "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of >> non-halting computations and a few more." >> >> It should be obvious to others why this is the fence you are sitting on. >> Is it comfy? >> > The first one. When we apply the conventional halt deciding criteria to > the halting problem counter-example templates using a simulating halt > decider, the simulating halt decider can correctly decide halting on > these inputs because it can totally ignore its own behavior while it > acts as a pure simulator, thus eliminating the pathological > self-reference(Olcott 2004) from the halting problem. > > comp.theory Peter Olcott Sep 5, 2004, 11:21:57 AM > [Halting Problem Final Conclusion] > The Liar Paradox can be shown to be nothing more than > a incorrectly formed statement because of its pathological > self-reference. The Halting Problem can only exist because > of this same sort of pathological self-reference. > https://groups.google.com/g/comp.theory/c/RO9Z9eCabeE/m/Ka8-xS2rdEEJ > > 17 years later I am finally getting around to finishing this. > > You have been talking to me far longer than anyone else, since 2006: > > [Re: A Possible "solution" to the Halting Problem] > On 10/17/2006 7:03 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: > > "Peter Olcott" <NoSpam@SeeScreen.com> writes: > > To eliminate the pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) from the halting problem such that there is no feedback loop between what the halt decider decides and how the input behaves the simulating halt decider simply watches what the input does without interfering at all. As soon as the simulating halt decider determines that the simulation of the input on its input would never halt (the conventional definition of non-halting) it aborts the simulation of its inputs and reports that its input does not halt. -- Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Einstein
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| From | Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-09 12:30 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <87tul3207x.fsf@bsb.me.uk> |
| In reply to | #35961 |
olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: > On 7/8/2021 8:48 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >> So which of your statements is the one you want to stand by? >> >> "We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting >> problem" >> or >> "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of >> non-halting computations and a few more." >> >> It should be obvious to others why this is the fence you are sitting on. >> Is it comfy? >> > The first one. Thank you. Your directness make me hopeful that you'll be clear about some other things... How long have you though that "and a few more" was correct? I.e. how long have you been arguing for a position you now concede is mistaken? Months? Years? Decades? You have refused to accept the definition of the halting problem for decades. Do you now accept that every string has a correct yes/no answer as far as halting is concerned, and that "yes" is the correct answer for those strings that represent halting computations and "no" is the correct answer for all the others? And since we now know that your "halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting problem" we can ditch all the waffle about simulation. It's just halting as conventionally defined. Your favourite book, and your favourite quoted lines from it, make it quite clear that halting computations like P(P) need to be accepted not rejected. P(P) halts, but H(P,P) == 0 which is wrong. So what have you now after all this time except a huge mistake? -- Ben.
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| From | Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-09 05:56 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <32732094-f1a4-42fe-84aa-02e7c2baa0fan@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #35976 |
On Friday, July 9, 2021 at 7:30:44 AM UTC-4, Ben Bacarisse wrote: > olcott <No...@NoWhere.com> writes: > > > On 7/8/2021 8:48 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: > > >> So which of your statements is the one you want to stand by? > >> > >> "We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting > >> problem" > >> or > >> "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of > >> non-halting computations and a few more." > >> > >> It should be obvious to others why this is the fence you are sitting on. > >> Is it comfy? > >> > > The first one. > Thank you. Your directness make me hopeful that you'll be clear about > some other things... How long have you though that "and a few more" was > correct? I.e. how long have you been arguing for a position you now > concede is mistaken? Months? Years? Decades? > > You have refused to accept the definition of the halting problem for > decades. Do you now accept that every string has a correct yes/no > answer as far as halting is concerned, and that "yes" is the correct > answer for those strings that represent halting computations and "no" is > the correct answer for all the others? > > And since we now know that your "halt deciding criteria is the same as > the halting problem" we can ditch all the waffle about simulation. It's > just halting as conventionally defined. > > Your favourite book, and your favourite quoted lines from it, make it > quite clear that halting computations like P(P) need to be accepted not > rejected. P(P) halts, but H(P,P) == 0 which is wrong. So what have you > now after all this time except a huge mistake? > > -- > Ben. dear ben i would write So which of your statements is the one you want to stand by? "i believe that my generating my halt deciding formula is equivalent to the halting problem" or "Thisshit maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of non minus halting computations plus a few more" Thank you. Your directness make me hopeful that you'll be clear about some other things... How long have you though that "and a few more" was correct? I.e. how long have you been arguing for a position you now concede is mistaken? Months? Years? Decades? You have refused to accept the definition of the halting problem for decades. Do you now accept that every string has a correct yes/no answer as far as halting is concerned, and that "yes" is the correct answer for those strings that represent halting computations and "no" is the correct answer for all the others? And since we now know that your "halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting problem" we can ditch all the waffle about simulation. It's just halting as conventionally defined. Your favourite book, and your favourite quoted lines from it, make it(page 185 theorem 7.18, relativization, now at best a gray area) quite clear that (universally quantify) halting computations like P(P) need to be accepted not (P=NP for small n) rejected. P(P) halts, but H(P,P) == 0 which is wrong. So what have you (P~=NP for large n) now after all this time except a huge mistake?(P+=NP in principle) -- Ben. daniel (little d)
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-09 08:59 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <doWdnZPz-M_By3X9nZ2dnUU7-R3NnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #35976 |
On 7/9/2021 6:30 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>
>> On 7/8/2021 8:48 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>
>>> So which of your statements is the one you want to stand by?
>>>
>>> "We can know that my halt deciding criteria is the same as the halting
>>> problem"
>>> or
>>> "This maps to every element of the conventional halting problem set of
>>> non-halting computations and a few more."
>>>
>>> It should be obvious to others why this is the fence you are sitting on.
>>> Is it comfy?
>>>
>> The first one.
>
> Thank you. Your directness make me hopeful that you'll be clear about
> some other things... How long have you though that "and a few more" was
> correct? I.e. how long have you been arguing for a position you now
> concede is mistaken? Months? Years? Decades?
>
I have only been trying to specifically define the set that are involved
for a few days. comp.theory gets all of my newest material before I put
it in my paper.
> You have refused to accept the definition of the halting problem for
> decades. Do you now accept that every string has a correct yes/no
> answer as far as halting is concerned, and that "yes" is the correct
> answer for those strings that represent halting computations and "no" is
> the correct answer for all the others?
>
The question: What Boolean value can H return to P representing the
correct halt status of P(P) in this computation has no correct answer:
// Simplified Linz Ĥ (Linz:1990:319)
void P(u32 x)
{
u32 Input_Halts = H(x, x);
if (Input_Halts)
HERE: goto HERE;
}
int main()
{
u32 Input_Halts = H((u32)P, (u32)P);
Output("Input_Halts = ", Input_Halts);
}
You always consistently twist these words to say something else entirely
knowing full well that you twist these words.
In the same way that the Liar Paradox contradicts its own truth value
the halting problem counter-example templates contradict the return
value of some programs that would otherwise be halt deciders.
The Liar Paradox and the halting problem counter example templates have
the exact same pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) error.
comp.theory Peter Olcott Sep 5, 2004, 11:21:57 AM
[Halting Problem Final Conclusion]
The Liar Paradox can be shown to be nothing more than
a incorrectly formed statement because of its pathological
self-reference. The Halting Problem can only exist because
of this same sort of pathological self-reference.
https://groups.google.com/g/comp.theory/c/RO9Z9eCabeE/m/Ka8-xS2rdEEJ
> And since we now know that your "halt deciding criteria is the same as
> the halting problem" we can ditch all the waffle about simulation. It's
> just halting as conventionally defined.
>
[Halt Deciding Axiom] When the pure simulation of the machine
description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P on its input I never halts we know that
P(I) never halts.
No we cannot. In order to remove the pathological feedback loop such
that P does the opposite of whatever H decides H simply acts as a pure
simulator of P thus having no effect what-so-ever on the behavior of P
until after its halt status decision has been made.
H then aborts its simulation of P before ever returning any value to P
because every function called in infinite recursion or infinitely nested
simulation never returns to this caller.
> Your favourite book, and your favourite quoted lines from it, make it
> quite clear that halting computations like P(P) need to be accepted not
> rejected. P(P) halts, but H(P,P) == 0 which is wrong. So what have you
> now after all this time except a huge mistake?
>
Because the pure simulation of P(P) never halts this proves that P(P)
meets the conventional definition of a computation that never halts.
--
Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds." Einstein
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| From | Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-09 17:59 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <sc9vg8$14mn$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #35979 |
On 09/07/2021 14:59, olcott wrote: > > comp.theory gets all of my newest material before I put it in my paper. That's very good idea if not a wonderful idea. We are all reading your theory on that newsgroup so there is no point in duplicating anything on to C or C++ because it irritates everybody (especially those that have still not kill-filed you) on those newsgroups and the theory has nothing to do with C or C++. I'm sure you understand this. You're a potential price winner of some kind so don't throw it away by becoming a common troll. Good luck.
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-09 20:32 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <Lt2dnYY0e6Y6ZXX9nZ2dnUU7-SGdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #35982 |
On 7/9/2021 11:59 AM, Real Troll wrote: > On 09/07/2021 14:59, olcott wrote: >> >> comp.theory gets all of my newest material before I put it in my paper. > > That's very good idea if not a wonderful idea. We are all reading your > theory on that newsgroup so there is no point in duplicating anything on > to C or C++ because it irritates everybody (especially those that have > still not kill-filed you) on those newsgroups and the theory has nothing > to do with C or C++. I'm sure you understand this. > > You're a potential price winner of some kind so don't throw it away by > becoming a common troll. > > Good luck. > One of my best reviewers [Kaz Kylheku] came from comp.lang.c and would have never reviewed my work unless he saw it in comp.lang.c -- Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Einstein
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| From | Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-09 19:28 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <5d288e8c-742f-4607-ae5e-60c8b79f8d04n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #36012 |
fibble at reddwarf jmc hi john how is the afterlife going? well i hope On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 14:24:33 -0500 You literally have no clue about what you are talking about, dear fibble fans for jmc himself the real deal i did write stanford parallel qlisp then only studied parallel fibonacci in the formal reasoning group at stanford whatsoever. This explains everything. shit ezplains everything i totally agree /Flibble /daniel (little d) your best student who studied your great 60th birthday book cover to cover thank you sir betterp must be acyclic personal hallway conversation with jmc then later i left an infinite loop running then had a nightmare then shoulted just one fucking line of code ended my academic career hospital joyriding san diego cardiff software +vision log base four of bitmaps skip pattern matching combinatorial pattern matching 1998 butchered by lecroq connected components aaai 2000 with bayardo predating fahiem2009 et ceteras dear satisfyability community bobfour is as good as it gets academia has only cursed bobthree right now but soon to have pure uncursed bobfour without int int is a nasty god damned idea that we are free to choose to avoid in our writing the thirty third heavenly bit on a memory is under development so please enumerate your heavenly memories one letter per second using on screen keyboard one bobo was my first spelling word bobo the dog bob was my second spelling word dog was third in mrs breyers first grade second saint vivians grade gold star per bible verse with nearly eidetic memory system for two decades third milkshake wilson third grade teacher she was minskys real mother to me fourth grade young platinum white haired math teacher mrs dawson fifth moved to crittenden drive sivth grade connie wolf seventh wizard of oz eighth mister carr ninth mike rice ted petkov robert byrnes earl the pearl bughouse tenth russian letters calculus eleventh friendlys family restaurant best busboy in whole franchise twelfth where to go dunno follow jeffy ++ Soap upon Ocean Snows upon Mountains ( cool hypothesis ) abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvw yz0 gods favorite number is three gods favorite symbol is + square of reason 11111110 11111101 11111011 11110111 11101111 11011111 10111111 01111111
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| From | Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-09 18:06 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] |
| Message-ID | <20210709180643.00004d28@reddwarf.jmc> |
| In reply to | #35979 |
On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 08:59:51 -0500 olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote: > [Halt Deciding Axiom] When the pure simulation of the machine > description ⟨P⟩ of a machine P on its input I never halts we know > that P(I) never halts. > > No we cannot. In order to remove the pathological feedback loop such > that P does the opposite of whatever H decides H simply acts as a > pure simulator of P thus having no effect what-so-ever on the > behavior of P until after its halt status decision has been made. Except your decider can only handle trivial uninteresting cases: if you wish to make progress on this then prove your decider works with a non-trivial case which includes branching logic predicated on arbitrary program input that is unknown a priori to the simulation starting; but before you even do that prove your decider works with a non-trivial case with branching logic predicated on arbitrary program input that *is* known a priori. I also note that you repeatedly refuse to address my point regarding how x86 mov instructions can read/write from/to memory mapped I/O rather than RAM so the result of the mov instruction cannot be known a priori. The halting program concerns computing devices and a computing device which cannot do I/O is next to useless, much like your decider (until you actually prove otherwise which I have a feeling is never going to happen as you appear to be stuck in a loop). /Flibble
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