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Groups > comp.theory > #35756 > unrolled thread
| Started by | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2021-07-05 11:28 -0500 |
| Last post | 2021-07-08 20:37 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 334 — 17 participants |
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How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 11:28 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 13:06 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 12:17 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 13:54 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 14:30 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 15:54 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-05 22:34 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 16:40 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 17:48 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 17:41 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 19:14 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-06 00:15 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 19:04 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 20:45 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 20:01 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-05 21:22 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 21:37 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 06:38 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 04:14 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-06 03:33 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 22:06 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-06 13:39 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 10:59 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 02:55 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:29 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 11:33 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 11:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 13:28 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 11:32 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 14:16 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:32 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (correct halt deciding criterion measure) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 02:56 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V2) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 21:00 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V2) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 16:32 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 11:24 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 10:53 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 13:10 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 11:59 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 14:51 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 13:47 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 14:35 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 16:49 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 20:18 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 20:24 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 21:45 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 21:04 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 22:45 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 22:03 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 06:56 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 07:46 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 23:39 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 22:54 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-08 22:15 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 23:26 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-08 22:44 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ independent v dependent variables ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 23:53 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 22:10 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 22:53 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 06:58 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 07:58 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 06:12 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 08:35 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 07:12 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 09:18 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 07:41 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-08 17:07 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 11:24 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 09:55 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-08 23:52 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 20:07 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-09 02:48 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 21:21 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 21:36 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-09 12:30 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 05:56 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 08:59 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2021-07-09 17:59 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 20:32 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 19:28 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-09 18:06 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 12:47 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-09 20:16 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 14:24 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 12:33 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-09 22:08 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 16:13 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 12:40 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 08:54 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 15:30 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 10:00 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 16:15 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 10:21 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 16:25 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 08:30 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 16:33 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 08:34 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 08:45 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 11:08 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 17:34 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ]( You and I ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 11:42 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ]( You and I ) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 10:54 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ]( You and I ) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 11:23 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ]( You and I ) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 11:41 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ]( You and I ) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 13:15 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 08:24 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 15:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2021-07-11 00:29 +0000
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 19:57 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 20:33 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ strachey example ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 22:59 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-09 23:10 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 17:41 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 12:28 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 10:50 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-09 22:59 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 17:29 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-10 00:23 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 18:31 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-10 01:13 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 19:33 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-11 01:57 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 20:00 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-11 03:08 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 22:13 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 23:13 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-11 07:14 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 00:27 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 01:07 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 01:39 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 01:42 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 09:16 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 09:16 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-11 11:10 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 09:30 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-11 20:04 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ]( Flibble agrees ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 14:47 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-11 22:35 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 09:13 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-12 09:20 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Theperfect Parrotsstore <theperfectparrotsstore@gmail.com> - 2021-07-12 08:23 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 12:35 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-12 12:39 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 17:18 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-12 18:00 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 08:41 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 07:57 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 09:42 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 07:54 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 10:02 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-13 22:23 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 15:52 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2021-07-14 22:09 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 16:47 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-14 21:03 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-14 20:57 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 22:12 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-14 21:57 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 01:44 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 09:17 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-15 21:04 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 16:31 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 15:08 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 15:18 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 16:13 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] "dklei...@gmail.com" <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 16:54 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 19:42 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-17 07:25 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-16 01:17 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 19:52 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-16 03:09 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 22:03 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-17 01:43 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 19:07 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 19:29 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 19:54 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 22:34 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-16 21:11 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 21:48 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-17 07:44 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-18 02:27 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-17 18:43 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-18 03:45 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-17 23:05 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 10:11 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ](and Flibble) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-16 22:52 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 13:12 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-16 22:39 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 09:08 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 10:33 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 09:36 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 10:43 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 10:11 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 17:21 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 16:44 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 17:55 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 17:08 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 18:50 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 18:20 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 19:32 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 19:02 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 20:11 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 19:42 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 20:52 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 20:07 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 21:14 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-13 20:30 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 21:42 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-13 22:29 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 15:53 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-14 15:01 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 16:39 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-14 21:06 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-13 23:13 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 10:07 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-14 21:35 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-12 21:20 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-12 21:15 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-12 21:10 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 06:54 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ suspended not halted ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 09:14 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-09 20:39 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 20:08 -0700
The (binary decision) tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 22:30 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 20:42 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 22:18 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-09 21:46 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 23:01 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-09 22:28 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 23:45 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-09 23:24 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 22:32 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 22:39 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 23:01 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 09:25 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-10 09:12 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ type mismatch error ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 10:32 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ type mismatch error ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-10 09:48 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ type mismatch error ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 11:19 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 21:51 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 21:59 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 21:01 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-09 21:17 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) [ pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 23:24 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 23:50 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V4) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 23:43 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 23:40 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 20:17 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 20:31 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 21:51 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 21:07 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 22:51 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 22:04 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-08 07:02 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ global halt decider ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 08:29 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ global halt decider ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-09 00:05 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ global halt decider ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-08 23:27 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ global halt decider ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-09 05:53 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) [ global halt decider ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-09 09:02 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 20:59 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-05 23:15 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-06 13:07 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 08:27 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 07:42 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 10:26 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:02 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 02:56 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 21:59 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-06 21:18 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 15:41 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-06 23:18 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 16:13 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 18:38 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 18:44 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 16:53 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 18:56 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 17:46 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 19:50 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 17:56 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 20:18 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 18:37 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 20:43 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 18:55 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 19:06 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:19 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 08:01 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-06 20:47 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 03:23 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 22:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 00:55 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 09:35 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 09:29 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 16:31 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 10:53 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 17:33 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 12:06 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 20:28 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 14:54 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 10:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 12:21 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2021-07-07 19:05 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 13:30 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-07 14:28 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 16:44 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 15:50 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 18:09 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 20:22 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:08 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-06 14:31 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-06 22:35 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-07 11:46 +0100
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 04:50 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 09:47 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 20:26 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 17:34 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 20:15 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 22:00 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 21:08 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-07 22:51 -0400
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 14:18 +0200
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 14:39 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 14:52 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 17:05 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 15:41 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 18:04 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 16:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 18:34 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] "dklei...@gmail.com" <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 17:03 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-07 19:14 -0500
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 17:19 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-07 17:26 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 02:41 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 02:50 -0700
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-08 14:08 -0600
Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? [ proof ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-08 20:37 -0700
Page 16 of 17 — ← Prev page 1 … 14 15 [16] 17 Next page →
| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-07 13:30 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) |
| Message-ID | <RO-dnQ-weoZ9b3j9nZ2dnUU7-VvNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #35871 |
On 7/7/2021 1:05 PM, Andy Walker wrote: > On 07/07/2021 16:31, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>> Only one in 10 billion people would have a six sigma IQ. >> I make is just under 10. How do you get 1 in 10^10? > Asymptotically the proportion with > n sigma is > > exp (- 0.5 n^2) / n sqrt (pi/2) > > with a correction factor > > 1 - 1/n^2 + 3/n^4 - 15/n^6 + ... > > [which diverges, but the error is less than the last term kept so > gives good enough accuracy for (say) n > 5]. Go figure. But it's > all irrelevant, exc as an exercise in pure probability theory. As > Malcolm implies, the actual distribution of IQs is very far from > normal except close to 100 -- there are many more high measured IQ > people than might be expected, and also many more very low people. > Separately, performance on IQ tests is only loosely correlated with > anything you might think of as intelligence, and, separately again, > a large majority of the world's population has never taken a proper > IQ test, even less an IQ test that properly allows for cultural > differences. It's a minefield, which is one of the reasons why > Guinness [apparently] no longer has a category for highest IQ. > The key point of all this is that Daniel/DV would know these things if his test scores really were seven sigma, and he would also know that no one has test scores of seven sigma. So calling bullshit on Daniel/DV's claim is unequivocally proven as the correct answer. -- Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Einstein
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| From | André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-07 14:28 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) |
| Message-ID | <sc52p9$8tk$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #35873 |
On 2021-07-07 12:30, olcott wrote: > On 7/7/2021 1:05 PM, Andy Walker wrote: >> On 07/07/2021 16:31, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>>> Only one in 10 billion people would have a six sigma IQ. >>> I make is just under 10. How do you get 1 in 10^10? >> Asymptotically the proportion with > n sigma is >> >> exp (- 0.5 n^2) / n sqrt (pi/2) >> >> with a correction factor >> >> 1 - 1/n^2 + 3/n^4 - 15/n^6 + ... >> >> [which diverges, but the error is less than the last term kept so >> gives good enough accuracy for (say) n > 5]. Go figure. But it's >> all irrelevant, exc as an exercise in pure probability theory. As >> Malcolm implies, the actual distribution of IQs is very far from >> normal except close to 100 -- there are many more high measured IQ >> people than might be expected, and also many more very low people. >> Separately, performance on IQ tests is only loosely correlated with >> anything you might think of as intelligence, and, separately again, >> a large majority of the world's population has never taken a proper >> IQ test, even less an IQ test that properly allows for cultural >> differences. It's a minefield, which is one of the reasons why >> Guinness [apparently] no longer has a category for highest IQ. >> > > The key point of all this is that Daniel/DV would know these things if > his test scores really were seven sigma, and he would also know that no > one has test scores of seven sigma. So calling bullshit on Daniel/DV's > claim is unequivocally proven as the correct answer. This all seems like a rather pointless debate given that I don't think that any qualified people actually believe that IQ provides a measure of 'intelligence' (which is a rather difficult concept to define). The only thing which I think people actually agree that IQ correlates with is general test taking ability, which has more to do with practice and experience than intelligence. André -- To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service.
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-07 16:44 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) |
| Message-ID | <0J6dnRbSmcXGvXv9nZ2dnUU7-V_NnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #35884 |
On 7/7/2021 3:28 PM, André G. Isaak wrote:
> On 2021-07-07 12:30, olcott wrote:
>> On 7/7/2021 1:05 PM, Andy Walker wrote:
>>> On 07/07/2021 16:31, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>> Only one in 10 billion people would have a six sigma IQ.
>>>> I make is just under 10. How do you get 1 in 10^10?
>>> Asymptotically the proportion with > n sigma is
>>>
>>> exp (- 0.5 n^2) / n sqrt (pi/2)
>>>
>>> with a correction factor
>>>
>>> 1 - 1/n^2 + 3/n^4 - 15/n^6 + ...
>>>
>>> [which diverges, but the error is less than the last term kept so
>>> gives good enough accuracy for (say) n > 5]. Go figure. But it's
>>> all irrelevant, exc as an exercise in pure probability theory. As
>>> Malcolm implies, the actual distribution of IQs is very far from
>>> normal except close to 100 -- there are many more high measured IQ
>>> people than might be expected, and also many more very low people.
>>> Separately, performance on IQ tests is only loosely correlated with
>>> anything you might think of as intelligence, and, separately again,
>>> a large majority of the world's population has never taken a proper
>>> IQ test, even less an IQ test that properly allows for cultural
>>> differences. It's a minefield, which is one of the reasons why
>>> Guinness [apparently] no longer has a category for highest IQ.
>>>
>>
>> The key point of all this is that Daniel/DV would know these things if
>> his test scores really were seven sigma, and he would also know that
>> no one has test scores of seven sigma. So calling bullshit on
>> Daniel/DV's claim is unequivocally proven as the correct answer.
>
>
> This all seems like a rather pointless debate given that I don't think
> that any qualified people actually believe that IQ provides a measure of
> 'intelligence' (which is a rather difficult concept to define).
>
It totally answers the question:
Is Daniel/DV's claim of a seven sigma score true?
> The only thing which I think people actually agree that IQ correlates
> with is general test taking ability, which has more to do with practice
> and experience than intelligence.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-science-of-genius/
By Dean Keith Simonton
Has brilliant insights into the distinguishing features of creative
genius as opposed to and contrast with merely having a high IQ.
One of the things that the article points out is that hardly anyone with
a very high IQ has very significant creative accomplishments.
It turns out that creative genius is defined by a specific process:
According to a theory proposed in 1960 by
psychologist Donald Campbell, creative thought
emerges through a process or procedure he termed
blind variation and selective retention (BVSR).
The blindness of BVSR merely means that ideas are
produced without foresight into their eventual utility.
Two common phenomena characterize BVSR thinking:
superfluity and backtracking. Superfluity means
that the creator generates a variety of ideas, one
or more of which turn out to be useless. Backtracking
signifies that the creator must often return to an
earlier approach after blindly going off in the wrong
direction. (Dean Keith Simonton:2012)
My own process simply tries every category of an idea that has not yet
proven to be fruitless. Like BVSR I go down the same path of the
decision tree with very slight variations to the approach many many
times until one of them works or every category has been tried.
>
> André
>
--
Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds." Einstein
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| From | Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-07 15:50 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) |
| Message-ID | <e0023197-be82-4af8-9bb3-d7f0fb4540dbn@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #35884 |
On Wednesday, 7 July 2021 at 21:28:27 UTC+1, André G. Isaak wrote: > > This all seems like a rather pointless debate given that I don't think > that any qualified people actually believe that IQ provides a measure of > 'intelligence' (which is a rather difficult concept to define). > > The only thing which I think people actually agree that IQ correlates > with is general test taking ability, which has more to do with practice > and experience than intelligence. > IQ test scores correlate with all sorts of interesting social phenomena. However it is an open question what they are actually measuring. Is it somethig genetic, or is it degree of socialisation?
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-07 18:09 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) |
| Message-ID | <Ov6dnQsiqM23qXv9nZ2dnUU7-SPNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #35896 |
On 7/7/2021 5:50 PM, Malcolm McLean wrote: > On Wednesday, 7 July 2021 at 21:28:27 UTC+1, André G. Isaak wrote: >> >> This all seems like a rather pointless debate given that I don't think >> that any qualified people actually believe that IQ provides a measure of >> 'intelligence' (which is a rather difficult concept to define). >> >> The only thing which I think people actually agree that IQ correlates >> with is general test taking ability, which has more to do with practice >> and experience than intelligence. >> > IQ test scores correlate with all sorts of interesting social phenomena. > However it is an open question what they are actually measuring. Is > it somethig genetic, or is it degree of socialisation? > It is a known fact that people with 150 IQ's tend to make much better brain surgeons than people with 50 IQ's IQ is like processor speed / RAM capacity. Much more important to creative genius is the operating system. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-science-of-genius/ -- Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Einstein
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-07 20:22 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) |
| Message-ID | <87a6my53px.fsf@bsb.me.uk> |
| In reply to | #35871 |
Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> writes: > On 07/07/2021 16:31, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>> Only one in 10 billion people would have a six sigma IQ. >> I make is just under 10. How do you get 1 in 10^10? > Asymptotically the proportion with > n sigma is > > exp (- 0.5 n^2) / n sqrt (pi/2) > > with a correction factor > > 1 - 1/n^2 + 3/n^4 - 15/n^6 + ... I think that's the proportion "outside" n sigma (i.e. in both tails). I still get about 10 not 1 (in 10^10). > [which diverges, but the error is less than the last term kept so > gives good enough accuracy for (say) n > 5]. Go figure. But it's > all irrelevant, exc as an exercise in pure probability theory. Yes, that's what I was curious about -- specifically how PO got 1 rather than something closer to 10. I cut all the stuff about IQs and even re-phrased it in terms of some normally distributed measure because I was just interested in what looked like a wayward calculation by one of us. -- Ben.
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| From | Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-06 22:08 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) |
| Message-ID | <E08FI.163$r21.81@fx38.iad> |
| In reply to | #35816 |
On 7/6/21 4:41 PM, olcott wrote: > Once people comprehend that my halting criteria eliminates the > pathological self-reference(Olcott 2004) of the halting problem proof > counter-examples they will understand that the halting problem is not > undecidable. Then teams of hundreds of software developers can handle > details such as branching logic. > > The reason that my C code analyzes x86 code is that x86 code provides a > complete directed graph of all control flow. > > https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351947980_Halting_problem_undecidability_and_infinitely_nested_simulation > > Except that the 'directed graph' you make isn't the actual directed graph of the machine, but one gotten by an invalid transformation. The is NO link in the actual Turing Machine from qx to q0, so the graph CAN'T be correct. qx of H^ is the exact same start as q0 of H, and that will progress to H's qy or qn which is also H^s qy or qn. It does NOT go back to q0. FAIL. You seem to be perrforming an invalid transformation. Do you have an actual PROOF that you are allowed to do this? Do you even have an example where someone else (reputable) claims this can be done?
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| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-06 14:31 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) |
| Message-ID | <sc2i3g$1ans$2@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #35815 |
On 7/6/2021 1:18 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 23:15:06 -0500
> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>
>> On 7/5/2021 6:15 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 7/5/2021 4:34 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>> For anyone interested, here's the answer to the question posed in
>>>>> the subject line: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct?
>>>>>
>>>>> We know that H(M,I) == 0 (false) is correct if, and only if, M(I)
>>>>> is not a halting (finite) computation.
>>>>>
>>>>> But PO rejects the very definition of a halting decider: a TM that
>>>>> accepts exactly those strings that represent finite computations,
>>>>> and rejects all others.
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead, a PO "Other-Halting" decider also rejects some strings
>>>>> that represent finite computations, specifically P(P) where P is
>>>>> hat(H), a function defined in terms of H like this:
>>>>> def hat(h):
>>>>> def p(x):
>>>>> if h(x, x):
>>>>> while True: pass
>>>>> return p
>>>>>
>>>>> For a POOH decider, H(hat(H), hat(H)) = False is correct, despite
>>>>> hat(H)(hat(H)) being a halting computation. No one except PO is
>>>>> interested in the POOH problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand, everyone is interested in halting, but the
>>>>> computation D(hat(D), hat(D)) shows that no D computes the halting
>>>>> function.
>>>>
>>>> Try and get your double-talk around this:
>>>>
>>>> void P(u32 x)
>>>> {
>>>> u32 Input_Halts = H(x, x);
>>>> if (Input_Halts)
>>>> HERE: goto HERE;
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> int main()
>>>> {
>>>> P((u32)P);
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> Because the above computation must be aborted at some point or it
>>>> never halts the above computation is a non-halting computation.
>>>
>>> It is a halting computation because it halts. The fact that P(P)
>>> halts is not in dispute.
>>>
>>> Nor is it a matter of dispute that your POOH decider, H, returns
>>> H(P,P) == 0 and so P(P) is a non-POOH computation. The only
>>> dispute is that you think someone might be interested in the POOH
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> (For obvious reasons, you resist giving the property you claim H is
>>> deciding a proper name. I'm not entirely sold on "PO Other
>>> Halting" but you won't suggest a better alternative.)
>>>
>>
>> On the basis that we know that every UTM(P,I) never halts defines the
>> exact same set of computations that must be aborted by a simulating
>> halt decider which defines the exact same set of computations P(I)
>> that never halt we can know that any input to a simulating halt
>> decider that never halts unless its simulation is aborted is a
>> non-halting computation.
>>
>> Because we know that a simulating halt decider only simulates its
>> input until after it has made its halt status decision we can know
>> that H can ignore its own address range in its execution traces.
>>
>> Because the x86 execution trace of P on input P provides no possible
>> escape from infinitely nested simulation and we can ignore the
>> execution trace of H then we can know that H must abort its
>> simulation of P on the basis of the sixteen lines of P:
>>
>> _P()
>> [00000b25](01) 55 push ebp
>> [00000b26](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
>> [00000b28](01) 51 push ecx
>> [00000b29](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
>> [00000b2c](01) 50 push eax
>> [00000b2d](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>> [00000b30](01) 51 push ecx
>> [00000b31](05) e81ffeffff call 00000955 // call H
>>
>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation at Machine Address:b25
>> ...[00000b25][002116fe][00211702](01) 55 push ebp
>> // P1 ...[00000b26][002116fe][00211702](02) 8bec mov
>> ebp,esp ...[00000b28][002116fa][002016ce](01) 51 push
>> ecx ...[00000b29][002116fa][002016ce](03) 8b4508 mov
>> eax,[ebp+08] ...[00000b2c][002116f6][00000b25](01) 50
>> push eax ...[00000b2d][002116f6][00000b25](03) 8b4d08 mov
>> ecx,[ebp+08] ...[00000b30][002116f2][00000b25](01) 51
>> push ecx ...[00000b31][002116ee][00000b36](05) e81ffeffff call
>> 00000955 // H1 ...[00000b25][0025c126][0025c12a](01) 55
>> push ebp // P2 ...[00000b26][0025c126][0025c12a](02) 8bec
>> mov ebp,esp ...[00000b28][0025c122][0024c0f6](01) 51
>> push ecx ...[00000b29][0025c122][0024c0f6](03) 8b4508
>> mov eax,[ebp+08] ...[00000b2c][0025c11e][00000b25](01) 50
>> push eax ...[00000b2d][0025c11e][00000b25](03) 8b4d08 mov
>> ecx,[ebp+08] ...[00000b30][0025c11a][00000b25](01) 51
>> push ecx ...[00000b31][0025c116][00000b36](05) e81ffeffff call
>> 00000955 // H2 Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected
>> Simulation Stopped
>
> But this case is trivial and uninteresting: your decider needs to
> analyse branching logic predicated on arbitrary input to be
> non-trivial and interesting. You've still got nothing of value to show.
I would love to see how his decider deals with branch delay slots. I
know that x86 does not have them, but it would be fun to see.
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| From | Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-06 22:35 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) |
| Message-ID | <1q8FI.6177$dp5.3243@fx48.iad> |
| In reply to | #35779 |
On 7/5/21 7:15 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: > olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: > >> >> Because the above computation must be aborted at some point or it >> never halts the above computation is a non-halting computation. > > It is a halting computation because it halts. The fact that P(P) halts > is not in dispute. > > Nor is it a matter of dispute that your POOH decider, H, returns H(P,P) > == 0 and so P(P) is a non-POOH computation. The only dispute is that > you think someone might be interested in the POOH problem. > > (For obvious reasons, you resist giving the property you claim H is > deciding a proper name. I'm not entirely sold on "PO Other Halting" but > you won't suggest a better alternative.) > I think the name is wrong, his machines don't REALLY deal with Halting, so it isn't other Halting, it really should be called Peter Olcott's Other Problem.
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| From | Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-07 11:46 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) |
| Message-ID | <87im1m766v.fsf@bsb.me.uk> |
| In reply to | #35848 |
Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> writes: > On 7/5/21 7:15 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >> >>> >>> Because the above computation must be aborted at some point or it >>> never halts the above computation is a non-halting computation. >> >> It is a halting computation because it halts. The fact that P(P) halts >> is not in dispute. >> >> Nor is it a matter of dispute that your POOH decider, H, returns H(P,P) >> == 0 and so P(P) is a non-POOH computation. The only dispute is that >> you think someone might be interested in the POOH problem. >> >> (For obvious reasons, you resist giving the property you claim H is >> deciding a proper name. I'm not entirely sold on "PO Other Halting" but >> you won't suggest a better alternative.) >> > > I think the name is wrong, his machines don't REALLY deal with Halting, > so it isn't other Halting, it really should be called Peter Olcott's > Other Problem. Good point. It's because, in the original description, the halting of one computation was reported as the halting of another that I went with that name, but it does, as you say, suggest the wrong meaning for other. Your name is better, but I don't want to confuse anyone by changing. Maybe PO can choose which he prefers? -- Ben.
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| From | Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-07 04:50 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (Ben's double-talk does not work) |
| Message-ID | <beb006ed-cddd-4845-acfd-2ab8a0750784n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #35852 |
dear comp dot theory
monotone reason is linearly decidable
i agree deciders are important to clean running systems so
before discussing the details of bob try this...
i call bobs one line theoretical decider /*theObserverSystemCore(p,g);*/
i place the decider of the pspace solver on line four of bob source code
with the davis putnam code further along in the one thousand lines of
bob source code with the decider being called last with Lessone(depth)
typedef unsigned long num;
const num one = (num)true; /*theObserverSystemCore(p,g)*/
const num zero = one >> one; /*theObserverSystemCore(p,g)*/
num Lessone(num g){num p = zero; for(p=zero; (p+one)<g; p=((p+g)>>one)) { /*theObserverSystemCore(p,g);*/ } return p;}
...
joy env::epluribusunum(Bob* b, Goods& sets, bignum& r)//why simple is good
{ passionmustdepth++;
when((passionmustretros++ & tautologies[ten + siv]) == zero) when(two < studylevel) { prin("%u", passionmustdepth); }
while(eon()&&(*b).manyp()){Bob* lobub=b;num a=Bob::unity((*lobub).t_r_e_e,(*lobub).wyde());
num be=syze();assume(lobub,a);dollar(be,r,b);when(qlog&&eon()&&(*b).onep())chooseb(sets,b);
when(eon()){epluribusunum(b,sets,r);}
unassume(lobub,a,be,b);dollar(be,r,b);
when(qlog){when(satisfiablenumber&&r.n.size()){passionmustdepth=Lessone(passionmustdepth);return;}
when(eon()&&(*b).onep())chooseb(sets,b);}}
when(eon()){when(onemodelp())addsolution(r);otherwise composition(sets,r);}
passionmustdepth = Lessone( passionmustdepth ); }
num theObserverSystemCore(num p, num g)
{
when (g > 21) haltbob();// trivial beginning
}
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-07 09:47 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) |
| Message-ID | <Mc-dnTud_JXqI3j9nZ2dnUU7-b_NnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #35852 |
On 7/7/2021 5:46 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: > Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> writes: > >> On 7/5/21 7:15 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>> >>>> >>>> Because the above computation must be aborted at some point or it >>>> never halts the above computation is a non-halting computation. >>> >>> It is a halting computation because it halts. The fact that P(P) halts >>> is not in dispute. >>> >>> Nor is it a matter of dispute that your POOH decider, H, returns H(P,P) >>> == 0 and so P(P) is a non-POOH computation. The only dispute is that >>> you think someone might be interested in the POOH problem. >>> >>> (For obvious reasons, you resist giving the property you claim H is >>> deciding a proper name. I'm not entirely sold on "PO Other Halting" but >>> you won't suggest a better alternative.) >>> >> >> I think the name is wrong, his machines don't REALLY deal with Halting, >> so it isn't other Halting, it really should be called Peter Olcott's >> Other Problem. > > Good point. It's because, in the original description, the halting of > one computation was reported as the halting of another that I went with > that name, but it does, as you say, suggest the wrong meaning for > other. Your name is better, but I don't want to confuse anyone by > changing. Maybe PO can choose which he prefers? > H acts as a pure x86 simulator until its input demonstrates non-halting behavior. It is common knowledge that when-so-ever the pure simulation of the machine description of a machine never halts on its input that this logically entails that this machine never halts on its input. This proves that H uses the same halting criteria as the halting problem. Because H acts as a pure simulator of its input until after it makes its halt status decision we know that the behavior of H cannot possibly have any effect on the behavior of P thus the behavior of H can be totally ignored in any halt status decision. -- Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Einstein
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| From | Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-07 20:26 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) |
| Message-ID | <cDrFI.7968$rr3.2206@fx34.iad> |
| In reply to | #35861 |
On 7/7/21 10:47 AM, olcott wrote: > On 7/7/2021 5:46 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >> Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> writes: >> >>> On 7/5/21 7:15 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Because the above computation must be aborted at some point or it >>>>> never halts the above computation is a non-halting computation. >>>> >>>> It is a halting computation because it halts. The fact that P(P) halts >>>> is not in dispute. >>>> >>>> Nor is it a matter of dispute that your POOH decider, H, returns H(P,P) >>>> == 0 and so P(P) is a non-POOH computation. The only dispute is that >>>> you think someone might be interested in the POOH problem. >>>> >>>> (For obvious reasons, you resist giving the property you claim H is >>>> deciding a proper name. I'm not entirely sold on "PO Other Halting" >>>> but >>>> you won't suggest a better alternative.) >>>> >>> >>> I think the name is wrong, his machines don't REALLY deal with Halting, >>> so it isn't other Halting, it really should be called Peter Olcott's >>> Other Problem. >> >> Good point. It's because, in the original description, the halting of >> one computation was reported as the halting of another that I went with >> that name, but it does, as you say, suggest the wrong meaning for >> other. Your name is better, but I don't want to confuse anyone by >> changing. Maybe PO can choose which he prefers? >> > > H acts as a pure x86 simulator until its input demonstrates non-halting > behavior. It is common knowledge that when-so-ever the pure simulation > of the machine description of a machine never halts on its input that > this logically entails that this machine never halts on its input. This > proves that H uses the same halting criteria as the halting problem. > > Because H acts as a pure simulator of its input until after it makes its > halt status decision we know that the behavior of H cannot possibly have > any effect on the behavior of P thus the behavior of H can be totally > ignored in any halt status decision. > > But, as you just admitted, H ISN'T a pure simulator, because is WILL at some point possible abort its simulation. When H abort its simulation, it affect the path of exection of the machine that called it, so any decider trying to decide on that caller needs to take the behavior of the embedded decider that it is simulating into account. If you want to dispute this, please show some PROOF that your statement is a fact. I will even accept an equivalent assertion by a credible authority (which excludes you). Would you allow the police officer to pull you over as you approach a red light and give you a ticket for running it because you only stopped becuause he pulled your over? NO.
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| From | Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-07 17:34 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) |
| Message-ID | <8de1711a-4359-44f7-b57c-aed39a59af01n@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #35911 |
deleted some quantifications of the universal type that everyone comprehends: > H acts as a pure x86 simulator its input demonstrates non-halting > behavior. when-so-ever the pure simulation > of the machine description of a machine never halts on its input that > this logically entails that this machine never halts on its input. > H uses the same halting criteria as the halting problem. > > H acts as a pure simulator of its input until after it makes its > halt status decision the behavior of H cannot have > effect on the behavior of P the behavior of H can be > ignored in halt status decision. >
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-07 20:15 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) |
| Message-ID | <ZpOdnXAu2_4uzHv9nZ2dnUU7-fvNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #35911 |
On 7/7/2021 7:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 7/7/21 10:47 AM, olcott wrote: >> On 7/7/2021 5:46 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>> Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> writes: >>> >>>> On 7/5/21 7:15 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote: >>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Because the above computation must be aborted at some point or it >>>>>> never halts the above computation is a non-halting computation. >>>>> >>>>> It is a halting computation because it halts. The fact that P(P) halts >>>>> is not in dispute. >>>>> >>>>> Nor is it a matter of dispute that your POOH decider, H, returns H(P,P) >>>>> == 0 and so P(P) is a non-POOH computation. The only dispute is that >>>>> you think someone might be interested in the POOH problem. >>>>> >>>>> (For obvious reasons, you resist giving the property you claim H is >>>>> deciding a proper name. I'm not entirely sold on "PO Other Halting" >>>>> but >>>>> you won't suggest a better alternative.) >>>>> >>>> >>>> I think the name is wrong, his machines don't REALLY deal with Halting, >>>> so it isn't other Halting, it really should be called Peter Olcott's >>>> Other Problem. >>> >>> Good point. It's because, in the original description, the halting of >>> one computation was reported as the halting of another that I went with >>> that name, but it does, as you say, suggest the wrong meaning for >>> other. Your name is better, but I don't want to confuse anyone by >>> changing. Maybe PO can choose which he prefers? >>> >> >> H acts as a pure x86 simulator until its input demonstrates non-halting >> behavior. It is common knowledge that when-so-ever the pure simulation >> of the machine description of a machine never halts on its input that >> this logically entails that this machine never halts on its input. This >> proves that H uses the same halting criteria as the halting problem. >> >> Because H acts as a pure simulator of its input until after it makes its >> halt status decision we know that the behavior of H cannot possibly have >> any effect on the behavior of P thus the behavior of H can be totally >> ignored in any halt status decision. >> >> > > But, as you just admitted, H ISN'T a pure simulator, because is WILL at > some point possible abort its simulation. > > When H abort its simulation, it affect the path of exection of the > machine that called it, I am only repeating this a ridiculous number of times because your mental deficiency requires things to be repeated hundreds of times before you notice them for the first time: The behavior of H has no effect on the halt status decision of H(P,P) because H remains a pure simulator of its input until after the halt status decision has been made. The behavior of H has no effect on the halt status decision of H(P,P) because H remains a pure simulator of its input until after the halt status decision has been made. The behavior of H has no effect on the halt status decision of H(P,P) because H remains a pure simulator of its input until after the halt status decision has been made. The behavior of H has no effect on the halt status decision of H(P,P) because H remains a pure simulator of its input until after the halt status decision has been made. The behavior of H has no effect on the halt status decision of H(P,P) because H remains a pure simulator of its input until after the halt status decision has been made. -- Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Einstein
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| From | Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-07 22:00 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) |
| Message-ID | <7%sFI.477$qL.45@fx14.iad> |
| In reply to | #35913 |
On 7/7/21 9:15 PM, olcott wrote: > On 7/7/2021 7:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >> But, as you just admitted, H ISN'T a pure simulator, because is WILL at >> some point possible abort its simulation. >> >> When H abort its simulation, it affect the path of exection of the >> machine that called it, > > I am only repeating this a ridiculous number of times because your > mental deficiency requires things to be repeated hundreds of times > before you notice them for the first time: > > The behavior of H has no effect on the halt status decision > of H(P,P) because H remains a pure simulator of its input until > after the halt status decision has been made. > But it doesn't wait for the simulator it is simulating to make its decision and it 'guesses' wrong, and thus gets the wrong answer. It doesn't matter if you study dillegently for the course if come exam time you don't put the right answers on the paper. 169 isn't a prime number just becase it has no factors less than its square root. Since this H WILL abort the simulation after making its decision, to make the decision valid, it had to consider that it would, or at least that it might. You analysis begins with a false premise, that H will not abort the simulation, so it is UNSOUND. If you want to claim that you can make this analysis, PROVE IT. Please show some ACTUAL ANALYITCAL PROOF that this is a valid step. FAIL.
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-07 21:08 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) |
| Message-ID | <xJGdnZSsOeSKw3v9nZ2dnUU7-TOdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #35919 |
On 7/7/2021 9:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 7/7/21 9:15 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 7/7/2021 7:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > >>> But, as you just admitted, H ISN'T a pure simulator, because is WILL at >>> some point possible abort its simulation. >>> >>> When H abort its simulation, it affect the path of exection of the >>> machine that called it, >> >> I am only repeating this a ridiculous number of times because your >> mental deficiency requires things to be repeated hundreds of times >> before you notice them for the first time: >> >> The behavior of H has no effect on the halt status decision >> of H(P,P) because H remains a pure simulator of its input until >> after the halt status decision has been made. >> > But it doesn't wait for the simulator it is simulating to make its > decision and it 'guesses' wrong, and thus gets the wrong answer. I thought this same thing for three days until I figured out that unless the current halt decider aborts its input that no halt decider ever will abort its input. -- Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Einstein
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| From | Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-07 22:51 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) |
| Message-ID | <aLtFI.716$XI4.636@fx09.iad> |
| In reply to | #35922 |
On 7/7/21 10:08 PM, olcott wrote: > On 7/7/2021 9:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >> On 7/7/21 9:15 PM, olcott wrote: >>> On 7/7/2021 7:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >> >>>> But, as you just admitted, H ISN'T a pure simulator, because is WILL at >>>> some point possible abort its simulation. >>>> >>>> When H abort its simulation, it affect the path of exection of the >>>> machine that called it, >>> >>> I am only repeating this a ridiculous number of times because your >>> mental deficiency requires things to be repeated hundreds of times >>> before you notice them for the first time: >>> >>> The behavior of H has no effect on the halt status decision >>> of H(P,P) because H remains a pure simulator of its input until >>> after the halt status decision has been made. >>> >> But it doesn't wait for the simulator it is simulating to make its >> decision and it 'guesses' wrong, and thus gets the wrong answer. > > I thought this same thing for three days until I figured out that unless > the current halt decider aborts its input that no halt decider ever will > abort its input. > Posted the rebutal to this to the other identical response.
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| From | Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-07 14:18 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <sc462n$i5j$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #35756 |
According to your posting-frequency you're manic. But post only to comp.arch; this is the only appropriate NG. You don't have any C/C++-specific issues and your thoguhts aren't related to AI either.
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| From | olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-07-07 14:39 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: How do we know that H(P,P)==0 is correct? (V3) |
| Message-ID | <ZZqdnVRx3LOannv9nZ2dnUU7-KHNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #35857 |
On 7/7/2021 2:01 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote: > olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes: >> On 7/7/2021 12:25 PM, Real Troll wrote: >>> On 07/07/2021 13:18, Bonita Montero wrote: >>>> According to your posting-frequency you're manic. >>>> But post only to comp.arch; this is the only appropriate NG. >>>> You don't have any C/C++-specific issues and your thoguhts >>>> aren't related to AI either. >>> >>> He wants to win a Nobel price in computing! He believes you can >>> recommend him to the Nobel committee for his incessant trolling. >> >> There is no Nobel prize in computing. > > There is, of course, the Turing award. > > But crossposting trolls aren't eligable. > I knew that and and also knew that Edsger Dijkstra won it four years after he posted a mere letter to the editor to the CACM. https://homepages.cwi.nl/~storm/teaching/reader/Dijkstra68.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edsger_W._Dijkstra -- Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Einstein
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