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Re: Olcott's theory

From Peter <peterxpercival@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.theory
Subject Re: Olcott's theory
Date 2021-07-11 13:22 +0100
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <scenpg$mic$2@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <jtmdnR3-ZvVuTnT9nZ2dnUU7-fXNnZ2d@giganews.com> <20210710181236.000034e3@reddwarf.jmc> <F4WdnUGyybYxfHT9nZ2dnUU7-TPNnZ2d@giganews.com> <sccsha$1aj9$1@gioia.aioe.org> <scds8j$32h$1@dont-email.me>

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Jeff Barnett wrote:
> On 7/10/2021 1:30 PM, Peter wrote:
>> olcott wrote:
>>> On 7/10/2021 12:12 PM, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 10 Jul 2021 12:08:02 -0500
>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Halting Problem can only exist because
>>>>> of this same sort of pathological self-reference.
>>>>
>>>> ^ that is your mistake: the halting problem still exists even if a
>>>> collection of proofs have a mistake.
>>>>
>>>> Does [Turing 1937] rely on a decider being part of that which is
>>>> being decided?  Wikipedia suggests not:
>>>>
>>>> "Turing's proof departs from calculation by recursive functions and
>>>> introduces the notion of computation by machine."
>>>>
>>>> /Flibble
>>>>
>>>
>>> *I agree that I have not solved the halting problem*
>>> At most I have only proved that the conventional proofs of the 
>>> undecidability of the halting problem that rely on the Strachey form, 
>>> are incorrect. This seems to include all textbook proofs.
>>>
>>> [An impossible program] C. Strachey
>>> The Computer Journal, Volume 7, Issue 4, January 1965, Page 313, 
>>> https://doi.org/10.1093/comjnl/7.4.313
>>>
>>> Now seems to be a good time to finally look at the Turing proof.
>>> https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/Turing_Paper_1936.pdf
>>> I am not sure if the above linked copy has the later published 
>>> correction.
>>>
>>> If the Turing proof is isomorphic to the Strachey form, I don't know 
>>> what it left to prove that the halting problem is undecidable.
>>
>> There is more than one proof.  I was taught, not the the halting 
>> problem for TMs is unsolvable, but that the halting problem for 
>> register machines is unsolvable.  The reason being, I suppose, that 
>> the course was taught by one of the inventors of the register 
>> machine.  [There are a variety of register machines, this one had an 
>> unlimited number of registers and the instructions
>> add 1 to register R,
>> subtract 1 from register R (so long as it doesn't hold 0),
>> if R doesn't hold 0 go to instruction i.
> 
> Did they teach you that only two registers are necessary? That's the 
> most fun part of the result. Since the "two counter" machines have 
> exactly the same computation power as Turing machines, a no halt theory 
> for either extends to both. Automatic.

Yes.  The lecturer was John Shepherdson at Bristol.

>> See Shepherdson & Sturgis, 'Computability of recursive functions', 
>> /JACM/, vol 10, no 2, 1963, pp217-255.]
>>
>>>
>>> Goldbach's Conjecture is merely undecided and thus not undecidable.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldbach%27s_conjecture
>>>
>>> Busy Beaver only seems intractable not undecidable.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busy_beaver-- 
> Jeff Barnett
> 


-- 
The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here
Abraham Lincoln at Gettysburg

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Thread

Olcott's theory Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 18:00 +0100
  Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 12:08 -0500
    Re: Olcott's theory Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 18:12 +0100
      Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 13:06 -0500
        Re: Olcott's theory Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 19:23 +0100
          Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 13:32 -0500
            Re: Olcott's theory Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 19:38 +0100
              Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 13:45 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 19:59 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory (Ben, Kaz or Mike please talk to Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 14:09 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory (Ben, Kaz or Mike please talk to Flibble) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 20:14 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory (Ben, Kaz or Mike please talk to Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 14:32 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory (Ben, Kaz or Mike please talk to Flibble) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 20:35 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory (Ben, Kaz or Mike please talk to Flibble) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 14:08 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory (Ben, Kaz or Mike please talk to Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 16:12 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory (Ben, Kaz or Mike please talk to Flibble) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 22:39 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory (Ben, Kaz or Mike please talk to Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 16:46 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory (Ben, Kaz or Mike please talk to Flibble) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 22:52 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory (Ben, Kaz or Mike please talk to Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 16:58 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory (Ben, Kaz or Mike please talk to Flibble) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-10 23:00 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory (Ben, Kaz or Mike please talk to Flibble) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 17:08 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory (Ben, Kaz or Mike please talk to Flibble) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 15:12 -0700
        Re: Olcott's theory Peter <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2021-07-10 20:30 +0100
          Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 16:04 -0500
            Re: Olcott's theory Peter <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2021-07-10 23:47 +0100
              Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 18:30 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-11 02:56 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 19:18 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-11 03:34 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 19:45 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-11 10:34 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-12 16:55 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-10 21:25 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-11 10:32 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-10 22:39 -0600
                Re: Olcott's theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-11 10:23 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-11 10:43 -0600
                Re: Olcott's theory Peter <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2021-07-11 13:19 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 10:09 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory Peter <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2021-07-11 18:20 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble agrees that I am correct ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 12:45 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble agrees that I am correct ] Peter <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2021-07-11 19:18 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble agrees that I am correct ] Peter <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2021-07-19 20:09 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble agrees that I am correct ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-20 08:44 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 14:35 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory Peter <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2021-07-12 13:36 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 08:56 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory Peter <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2021-07-12 16:04 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 10:27 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory Peter <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2021-07-13 21:18 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory Peter <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2021-07-19 20:01 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-20 08:41 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-20 09:12 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory Peter <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2021-07-20 17:16 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-20 14:41 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory Peter <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2021-07-21 06:55 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-21 09:40 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory Peter <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2021-07-21 16:49 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-21 11:00 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-22 08:44 -0500
          Re: Olcott's theory Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-10 22:32 -0600
            Re: Olcott's theory Peter <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2021-07-11 13:22 +0100
        Re: Olcott's theory Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2021-07-12 14:13 +0100
          Re: Olcott's theory Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-12 06:19 -0700
            Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 09:25 -0500
              Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-12 17:33 +0200
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 16:51 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-12 21:27 -0600
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 09:36 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] Peter <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2021-07-13 19:15 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 17:16 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-13 22:56 -0600
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 10:01 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-14 22:03 -0600
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 10:05 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-16 23:07 -0600
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-13 22:45 -0600
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] ( isomorphic thus correct ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-14 09:56 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] ( isomorphic thus correct ) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-14 21:48 -0600
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] ( isomorphic thus correct ) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 03:43 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] ( isomorphic thus correct ) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-15 07:54 -0600
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] ( isomorphic thus correct ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 09:35 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] ( isomorphic thus correct ) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-16 23:09 -0600
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] ( isomorphic thus correct ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-15 09:24 -0500
            Re: Olcott's theory Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-12 13:27 -0600
              Re: Olcott's theory Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2021-07-12 21:08 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-12 21:24 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 16:53 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2021-07-12 22:59 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 17:23 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-12 21:32 -0600
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 23:31 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 03:51 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 09:00 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 07:38 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 10:01 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 08:23 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 10:35 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 09:13 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 15:24 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 17:53 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 16:22 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 18:48 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 17:06 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 19:17 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] (Fixing Tarski's nonsense ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 19:29 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 18:14 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] ( incorrect questions ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 20:40 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] ( incorrect questions ) wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 18:58 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] ( incorrect questions ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 21:08 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] ( incorrect questions ) wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 19:52 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] ( incorrect questions ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 22:39 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] ( incorrect questions ) wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 21:00 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] ( incorrect questions ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 23:17 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble quote agrees] ( incorrect questions ) wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 21:41 -0700
                Re: Olcott's theory Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-13 07:23 -0600
                Re: Olcott's theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-13 00:00 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-12 23:40 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 18:23 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2021-07-12 22:57 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 17:21 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2021-07-13 11:49 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 08:49 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2021-07-13 00:45 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 21:10 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 17:03 -0500
                Re: Olcott's theory Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-12 16:52 -0600
                Re: Olcott's theory Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2021-07-13 00:37 +0100
                Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 22:02 -0500
              Re: Olcott's theory olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 17:00 -0500
          Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 09:25 -0500
  Re: Olcott's theory "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-10 23:04 -0700
    Re: Olcott's theory [unknown to be undecidable] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 09:21 -0500
    Re: Olcott's theory wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 07:52 -0700
      Re: Olcott's theory "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 11:42 -0700
        Re: Olcott's theory "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 11:52 -0700
          Re: Olcott's theory wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-11 16:52 -0700
            Re: Olcott's theory Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-12 04:39 -0700
  Re: Olcott's theory [ "I agree with Olcott" ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-11 11:04 -0500
  Re: Olcott's theory Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-11 22:14 -0600
    Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 09:10 -0500
      Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-12 16:09 -0700
        Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-12 16:14 -0700
          Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 08:23 -0500
            Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-13 07:24 -0700
              Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 09:59 -0500
        Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-12 22:07 -0500
          Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-12 20:17 -0700
            Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-13 08:45 -0500
      Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands this ] wij <wyniijj@gmail.com> - 2021-07-12 16:40 -0700
  Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands pathological self reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 14:33 -0500
    Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands pathological self reference(Olcott 2004) ] Peter <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2021-07-19 20:40 +0100
      Re: Olcott's theory [ Flibble understands pathological self reference(Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-20 08:52 -0500
  Re: Olcott's theory "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-19 13:25 -0700

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