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Groups > comp.theory > #118913
| From | wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory |
| Subject | Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric |
| Date | 2025-05-14 02:49 +0800 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <5bb9f96852193549ca12a0af1b73ba797edf75fa.camel@gmail.com> (permalink) |
| References | (10 earlier) <vvvrhl$1so2t$2@dont-email.me> <vvvu75$1rc4t$3@dont-email.me> <vvvuil$1so2t$4@dont-email.me> <10001c3$1v9nn$1@dont-email.me> <10002hg$1vl5n$1@dont-email.me> |
On Tue, 2025-05-13 at 19:20 +0100, Mike Terry wrote:
> On 13/05/2025 19:00, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> > On 13/05/2025 18:12, dbush wrote:
> > > On 5/13/2025 1:06 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> > > > On 13/05/2025 17:21, dbush wrote:
> > > > > On 5/13/2025 12:01 PM, olcott wrote:
> > > >
> > > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > > > The actual reasoning why HHH is supposed to report
> > > > > > on the behavior of the direct execution of DD()
> > > > > > instead of the actual behavior that the finite
> > > > > > string of DD specifies:
> > > > >
> > > > > Quite simply, it's the behavior of the direct execution that we want to know about.
> > > >
> > > > Why?
> > > >
> > > > DDD doesn't do anything interesting.
> > >
> > > I wasn't referring to DDD specifically, but in general.
> > >
> > > He's claiming *in general* that H(X) is supposed to report on "X simulated by H" instead of the
> > > direct execution of X,
> >
> > ...where the former is obviously less interesting than the latter. Fair enough.
> >
> > <snip>
>
> Right! PO's defintion of PO-halting (based on what "the simulator" does) makes halting a property
> of both the input being decided /and/ the machine doing the deciding.
>
> Real halting is a property of just the input being decided, as is required to be the case with any
> "decision problem" such as HP. His definition is a total non-starter. That's before we even point
> out that an input for HP doesn't even have "its simulator" in general.
>
> Mike.
The HP is not asking any human to answer whether D halts or not, but asking a
TM to answer by taking D as its argument.
olcott is insisting that he can 'spot' D is non-halting (and no one else can
see), and the HP proof is so refuted.
void D() {
D(); // or H(D) because of 'simulation'
}
So, the rests stories are talks that how POOH is valid and the HP is refuted.
I am a bit surprised people react exactly the same (all kind of fabrication
possible) when confronting my proposal that repeating decimals are irrational!!!
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What it would take... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-10 02:11 +0100
Re: What it would take... Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-09 22:18 -0400
Re: What it would take... Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-10 04:04 +0000
Re: What it would take... Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 08:50 -0400
Re: What it would take... Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-10 14:24 +0000
Re: What it would take... Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 14:44 -0400
Re: What it would take... Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-10 20:05 +0000
Re: What it would take... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 10:07 -0500
Re: What it would take... "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-10 17:25 +0200
Re: What it would take... wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 23:35 +0800
Re: What it would take... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 10:46 -0500
Re: What it would take... wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-11 00:18 +0800
Re: What it would take... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-10 11:37 -0500
Re: What it would take... Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 15:02 -0400
Re: What it would take... Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-11 12:37 +0300
Re: What it would take... Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-10 15:01 -0400
Re: What it would take... Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-05-12 18:21 +0100
Re: What it would take... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-12 19:38 +0100
Re: What it would take... Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-05-13 00:58 +0100
Re: What it would take... TO GET MY REVIEWERS TO PAY COMPLETE ATTENTION? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 19:16 -0500
Re: What it would take... TO GET MY REVIEWERS TO PAY COMPLETE ATTENTION? dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 20:25 -0400
Re: What it would take... TO GET MY REVIEWERS TO PAY COMPLETE ATTENTION? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-12 22:27 -0400
Re: What it would take... TO GET MY REVIEWERS TO PAY COMPLETE ATTENTION? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-13 12:39 +0300
Re: What it would take... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-13 03:26 +0100
How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 21:48 -0500
Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-13 04:14 +0100
Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 22:31 -0500
Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 23:36 -0400
Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-13 04:39 +0100
Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-13 00:14 -0400
Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 23:38 -0500
Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-13 07:44 -0400
Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-13 12:44 +0300
Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-13 00:11 -0400
Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 23:41 -0500
Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-13 07:46 -0400
Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 19:47 -0500
Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-13 21:05 -0400
Re: How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-13 13:56 +0200
Re: What it would take... Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-13 04:23 +0100
Re: What it would take... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-13 04:37 +0100
Re: What it would take... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 22:38 -0500
Re: What it would take... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-13 04:41 +0100
Re: What it would take... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 22:44 -0500
Re: What it would take... Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-13 00:17 -0400
Re: What it would take... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 23:14 -0500
Re: What it would take... Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-13 00:34 -0400
Re: What it would take... Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-13 00:16 -0400
Re: What it would take... Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-05-13 12:49 +0300
Re: What it would take... André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:41 -0600
Re: What it would take... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 00:06 -0500
Re: What it would take... "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-13 13:54 +0200
Re: What it would take... Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-13 16:47 +0100
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 11:01 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 12:21 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 11:56 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 13:09 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 16:09 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 21:03 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 20:16 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 21:26 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 20:35 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 21:38 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 20:52 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 21:56 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 21:41 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 22:44 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 22:06 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 23:28 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 22:38 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 23:48 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 23:35 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-14 13:02 +0200
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 10:52 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 16:54 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 08:32 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 05:43 +0100
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 23:54 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 06:02 +0100
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 00:09 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 06:20 +0100
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 11:04 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 17:16 +0100
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 11:43 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 18:15 +0100
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 12:22 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 18:41 +0100
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 12:46 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 18:58 +0100
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 13:18 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 19:45 +0100
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 13:59 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 17:14 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 16:25 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-15 13:22 +0200
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-15 23:38 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 16:58 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-16 13:25 +0000
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 09:00 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-16 10:09 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-16 10:19 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-16 11:57 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-14 18:25 +0000
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-05-14 18:30 +0000
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-14 07:32 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric -- RP Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-13 21:14 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-13 21:10 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-13 18:06 +0100
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 13:12 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-13 19:00 +0100
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-13 19:20 +0100
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 02:49 +0800
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 15:52 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-14 12:59 +0200
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 10:58 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 16:54 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-14 07:35 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 16:16 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-13 22:28 +0100
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 16:49 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-14 12:56 +0200
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 21:05 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-14 07:41 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 10:32 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 16:44 +0100
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 12:17 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-14 18:32 +0100
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 12:35 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 11:22 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-14 12:53 +0200
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-14 07:43 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 10:26 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-14 23:23 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-14 23:14 -0500
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-15 07:19 -0400
Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning instead of rhetoric Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2025-05-13 18:41 -0400
Re: What it would take... Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-05-13 04:05 +0100
Re: What it would take... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-13 04:23 +0100
Re: What it would take... Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-05-12 23:38 +0100
How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 17:47 -0500
Re: What it would take... wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-05-13 07:05 +0800
Re: What it would take... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-13 04:09 +0100
Re: What it would take... Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-13 18:28 +0000
Re: What it would take... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-13 19:37 +0100
Re: What it would take... Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-13 18:40 +0000
Re: What it would take... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-13 19:47 +0100
Re: What it would take... Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-13 18:53 +0000
Re: What it would take... Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-05-13 20:01 +0100
Re: What it would take... Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-05-13 19:07 +0000
Re: What it would take... Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2025-05-13 23:59 +0100
Re: What it would take... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-05-12 12:29 -0500
Re: What it would take... "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2025-05-13 13:48 +0200
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