Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT.

From	Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com>
Newsgroups	comp.theory
Subject	Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT.
Date	2025-11-06 21:39 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<20251106131736.573@kylheku.com> (permalink)
References	(25 earlier) <10eink7$1a377$1@dont-email.me> <20251106101506.504@kylheku.com> <10eiuug$1cikf$1@dont-email.me> <10ej056$1cu3v$1@dont-email.me> <20251106131204.490@kylheku.com>

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On 2025-11-06, Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> wrote:
> On 2025-11-06, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/6/2025 2:03 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>> As for the current situation - we know that PO often claims that the 
>>> behaviour of a simulation is dependent on who is performing the 
>>> simulation. 
>>
>> I am proven this and it is dead obvious that D simulated
>> by H includes H simulating itself simulated D and D simulated
>
> That's a different instance of H, conducting a different instance
> of the simulation (different "level").
>
> No simulation level N requires the previous N-1 level to be
> conducted specifically by H.
>
> Any code which calls the simulation API can conduct a simulation,
> either from start to finish, or taking it over from other code. 
>
>> by H1 does not require this. Is everyone here brain damaged?
>
> By H1 I understand a procedure which simulates forever, until
> the subject halts by itself.

Or, wait; did we want H1 to be the same as H?

In that case, H1 will conduct three steps of D, just like H, and return
false.

That will be incorrect.

In that case, H1 will leave behind an unfinished simulation
which can be stepped to show that it terminates.

H1 and H are indistinguishable because we have not performed any name or
pointer-based comparison of functions. I.e. we have not executed any
test like fptr1 == fptr2 of two function pointers where we conclude that
H and H1 are different functions.  That would be a wrong thing to do,
and if we don't do such a thing, there is no difference between H and H1
if they have the same parameter list and body.

In the Halt7.c test case for the x86utm, there is a difference between
function like HHH1 and HHH because the analysis which looks for the
abort pattern does look at whether the same function is being called;
it is using pointer equality for functions and under pointer equality,
two different top-level definitions may be the same (unless the compiler
de-duplicates identical functions: not the case in the Halt7.obj file.)


-- 
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca

Thread

x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-26 05:29 +0000
  Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-10-26 09:52 +0000
    Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-26 15:20 +0000
  Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 12:37 -0700
    Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-26 20:30 +0000
      Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 13:43 -0700
      Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 13:49 -0700
        Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-26 21:46 +0000
  Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 22:16 -0700
    Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-26 22:17 -0700
  Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-31 04:51 +0000
    Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-31 05:18 +0000
      Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-31 15:38 +0000
      Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 11:14 -0500
        Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-31 16:35 +0000
          Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 11:55 -0500
            Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-31 13:51 -0400
              Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-31 18:03 +0000
                Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-31 14:10 -0400
      Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 11:23 -0500
        Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-31 13:19 -0400
        Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-31 17:37 +0000
    Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-04 18:04 +0000
      Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-04 18:36 +0000
        Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-04 18:59 +0000
      Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-04 19:36 +0000
        Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-04 21:03 +0000
          Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-04 21:58 +0000
            Re: x86utm with "reckoning" code: git repo with published commit. Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-05 01:20 +0000
              Kaz does not understand his own code. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 20:14 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-05 02:43 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 21:06 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-05 03:33 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-05 07:47 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 21:51 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-05 05:12 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 23:23 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-05 07:01 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 08:55 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-05 17:35 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 12:17 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 13:43 -0500
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 19:24 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 20:39 -0500
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 19:43 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-06 01:56 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 20:21 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-06 04:36 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 23:12 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 07:54 -0500
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 09:19 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-06 16:39 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 11:10 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-06 17:16 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 11:26 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 12:34 -0500
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 11:58 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 13:01 -0500
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 12:04 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 13:15 -0500
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-06 18:37 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-06 20:03 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 14:24 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-06 21:16 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-06 21:39 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-06 22:10 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 14:04 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-06 20:45 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 14:57 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-06 18:14 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 12:27 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-06 18:46 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 14:10 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-06 21:03 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 19:54 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 21:08 -0500
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 20:24 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 22:05 -0500
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 21:15 -0600
                Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 22:18 -0500
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 21:27 -0600
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 22:32 -0500
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 21:38 -0600
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 22:39 -0500
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 21:50 -0600
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 22:53 -0500
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 19:57 -0800
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 21:57 -0600
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 23:04 -0500
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 22:15 -0600
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 23:25 -0500
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 23:00 -0600
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 07:51 -0500
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 09:16 -0600
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 10:22 -0500
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 10:08 -0600
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 11:26 -0500
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 10:49 -0600
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 11:56 -0500
                Re: Olcott proves he's not interested in an honest dialogue by actively avoiding being clear olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 11:16 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 13:49 -0500
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-05 18:55 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 19:23 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-06 14:33 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-06 09:13 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-05 21:38 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 19:15 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 19:41 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 20:45 -0500
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 18:39 -0800
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 12:04 -0800
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-05 07:42 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 05:33 -0600
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-05 16:43 +0000
                Re: Kaz does not understand his own code. --- I AM PROVED EXACTLY CORRECT. olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 10:56 -0600

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