Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.theory > #135033
| From | Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory |
| Subject | Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Kaz made a great test |
| Date | 2025-11-04 22:12 +0000 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <20251104135919.327@kylheku.com> (permalink) |
| References | (13 earlier) <10ebi7i$39l5v$1@dont-email.me> <20251103181346.107@kylheku.com> <10ebqbv$3bp3f$1@dont-email.me> <20251103195844.661@kylheku.com> <10edsi9$3vd5k$1@dont-email.me> |
On 2025-11-04, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/3/2025 10:28 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>> On 2025-11-04, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 11/3/2025 8:22 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>>> On 2025-11-04, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> What step(s) of D come next in C?
>>>>
>>>> When I posted a detailed symbolic statement-by-statememnt trace using C
>>>> syntax several days ago,
>>> You did not stick with an execution trace of D and only D
>>> showing that and how D reaches its own "return" statement
>>> final halt state when simulated and only simulated by H.
>>
>> It was a warm-up exercise. The example H wasn't the aborting H.
>>
>> You made no remarks on the format: is that a good way or bad
>> way to trace executions of just C.
>>
>> I invented some fictitious API's into the interpreter that H could use
>> for setting up and stepping a simulation; you made no comments about it.
>>
>> The first thing D does when entered is call H(D), so we need an H
>> to trace concretely.
>>
>> How about this minimal viable H:
>>
>> #include <interpret.h> // C interpreter's own API
>>
>> bool H(fptr P)
>> {
>> interp *s = interp_init(P);
>>
>> for (int i = 0; i < 3; i++) {
>> if (interp_step(s))
>> return true;
>> }
>>
>> return false;
>> }
>>
>> H initializes an interpreter for its argument P. Then it applies a very
>> simple abort logic: it steps the interpreter state three times. If
>> during those three steps, P terminates, it returns true. Otherwise it
>> assumes P is nonterminating and returns false.
>>
>> (Pretend that more complicated abort criteria are there.)
>>
>> The interpreter API consists of primitives built into the system, so
>> it isn't traced.
>>
>> So then we have D:
>>
>> void D(void)
>> {
>> if (H(D)) { for (;;); }
>> return;
>> }
>>
>> Let's trace H(D). We indicate the simulation levels from 0,
>> step numbers from 1 within each level, with a bit of indentation
>> to tell apart the levels:
>>
>
> That seems to be a great empirical test.
I'm glad you like this. It is loosely inspired by Common Lisp stepping.
[1]> (step (let ((a 3) (b 4)) (+ a b)))
step 1 --> (LET ((A 3) (B 4)) (+ A B))
Step 1 [2]> :s
step 2 --> 3
Step 2 [3]> :s
step 2 ==> value: 3
step 2 --> 4
Step 2 [4]> :s
step 2 ==> value: 4
step 2 --> (+ A B)
Step 2 [5]> :s
step 3 --> A
Step 3 [6]> :s
step 3 ==> value: 3
step 3 --> B
Step 3 [7]> :s
step 3 ==> value: 4
step 2 ==> value: 7
step 1 ==> value: 7
7
Lisp is the best language for exploring towers of interpreters.
Remember that 1973 Tony Hoare "Incomputability" paper I recently referenced
again; the one in which he and his co-author explore interpreting deciders?
Among the introductory paragraphs, the paper states this:
"In this paper we draw on the programming language LISP [7] for
writing most of the example programs. We have chosen this language
for the following reasons: 1) it is fairly widely known, 2) it is a
small and simple language, 3) it is easy to represent Lisp programs as
data (S-expressions) which can then be manipulated, 4) it is relatively
easy to write an interpreter of the language in Lisp itself, and 5)
it might initially seem to be easy to write a program which tells
whether another program will terminate or not.
In fact, the first specification of Lisp was written as small amount
of Lisp code, on paper. No running implementation existed.
MacCarthy intended it as an abstract specification to guide the project.
(And didn't intend that notation to be usd for programming; he
wanted a different surface syntax.)
Steve Russel, his student, took the specification and hand-translated its
definitions to assembly language. The result was a working interpreter.
MacCarthy was taken aback, thinking there was some mistake; the
spec wasn't meant to be excuted.
If you want to explore nested interpretation using a higher level language, you
are a fool if you use C rather than Lisp, because you're just throwing
irrelevant obstacles in your path.
The representation of code and all the parsing and all that is already
done in Lisp, so you can dive right into the interpretation and related
semantic parts of what you are doing.
>> Level Step Code Vars
>>
>> 0 1 if (H(D)) ...
>> 0 2 H(D)
>> 0 3 interp *s = interp_init(P); ... P = D; s = #<garbage>
>> 0 4 for (int i = 0; i < 3 i++) ... P = D; s = #<interp0>; i = 0
>> 0 5 if (interp_step(s)) ... P = D; s = #<interp0>; i = 0
>> 1 1 if (H(D)) ...
>> 0 6 for (int i = 0; i < 3 i++) ... P = D; s = #<interp0>; i = 1
>> 0 7 if (interp_step(s)) ... P = D; s = #<interp0>; i = 0
>> 1 2 H(D)
>> 0 7 for (int i = 0; i < 3 i++) ... P = D; s = #<interp0>; i = 2
>> 0 7 if (interp_step(s)) ... P = D; s = #<interp0>; i = 0
>> 1 3 interp *s = interp_init(P); ... P = D; s = #<garbage>
>> 0 8 for (int i = 0; i < 3 i++) ... P = D; s = #<interp0>; i = 3
>> 0 9 return false; P = D; s = #<interp0>; i = 3
>>
>> OK, so after those 3 steps, H(D) has returned false. The D simulation
>> proceeded far enough to hit the "interp_init(P)" calculation, to create
>> the next simulation level.
>>
>
> I don't think so
> i == 0 reaches if (interp_step(s))
> i == 1 reaches if (interp_step(s))
> i == 2 reaches if (interp_step(s))
> i == 3 NEVER reaches if (interp_step(s))
> Then bool H(fptr P) returns false.
When the loop hits i == 3, it reaches "return false;".
That first happens at level 0, above. we see this:
0 9 return false; P = D; s = #<interp0>; i = 3
So now we have H's conclusion H(D) returns false.
The #<interp0> simulation exists in the system though; the interesting
thing takes place after that is picked up and continued.
The simulated H(D) also hits i == 3 and return;. But since it is D() being
simulated, that return is still in the simulation: it goes back into D() which
terminates.
--
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca
Back to comp.theory | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 09:49 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-30 20:11 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 15:25 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-30 20:42 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 16:05 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-30 21:15 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 16:49 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 20:13 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 21:14 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 19:15 -0700
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 22:33 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 21:45 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 22:49 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 21:54 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 22:56 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 21:59 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 23:00 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 22:03 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 23:04 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 22:15 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 23:19 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 22:25 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 23:28 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 22:49 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 00:00 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 23:06 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 07:22 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 06:55 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 08:08 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 07:30 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 08:33 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 09:02 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 10:15 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 09:24 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 10:28 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 12:36 -0700
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 12:35 -0700
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-31 04:55 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 06:57 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-31 17:17 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-31 17:20 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Mike never did get this "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 12:32 -0700
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-31 00:22 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 21:07 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 22:10 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 21:17 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 19:18 -0700
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 22:35 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 21:48 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 22:50 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 21:56 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 22:58 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 22:01 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 23:03 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 22:05 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 23:06 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 22:16 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 23:20 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 22:27 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 23:30 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 22:59 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-31 03:35 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-31 03:29 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 22:47 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-31 04:39 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 07:27 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 17:32 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 17:01 -0700
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2025-10-31 00:57 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-30 16:44 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-31 13:28 +0200
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 07:44 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-01 10:42 +0200
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 08:25 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 09:51 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-01 20:12 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 15:18 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-01 20:53 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 16:08 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-11-01 21:12 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 13:59 -0700
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-02 14:17 +0200
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 07:29 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-02 22:26 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-03 20:43 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 14:47 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-03 22:40 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 16:56 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-04 00:24 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure ??? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 18:43 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure ??? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-04 02:22 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure ??? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 21:02 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure ??? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-04 04:28 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure ??? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 13:52 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure ??? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-04 20:20 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure ??? Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-11-04 21:04 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure ??? wij <wyniijj5@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 20:04 +0800
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure !!! olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 09:50 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure !!! Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-05 17:51 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure !!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 12:18 -0800
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure !!! olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 19:29 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure !!! dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 20:43 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure !!! Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-07 16:03 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure !!! Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-07 15:59 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure !!! olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-07 10:13 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure !!! Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-07 16:41 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure !!! olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-07 10:44 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure !!! olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-07 10:27 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure ??? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-05 14:52 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure ??? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 09:54 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure ??? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-05 16:52 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure on one point olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 11:10 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure on one point "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-05 12:11 -0800
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure ??? Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-04 20:10 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure ??? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 14:35 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure ??? joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-04 20:51 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure ??? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 14:55 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure ??? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-04 21:43 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Closure ??? Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-04 21:35 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Kaz made a great test olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 15:52 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Kaz made a great test Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-04 22:12 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Kaz code Deviation olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 16:13 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Kaz code Deviation Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-04 22:33 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Kaz code Deviation "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 14:41 -0800
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Kaz code Deviation olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 17:18 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Kaz code Deviation Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-05 02:08 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Kaz code Deviation olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 20:24 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Kaz makes a very smart example olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-04 18:16 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-11-03 12:05 +0200
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-03 17:16 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2025-11-03 20:19 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-03 21:35 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-03 21:36 +0000
Olcott's revised position statement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 15:48 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-03 21:57 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-11-02 14:10 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-10-31 12:35 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-31 18:00 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-10-31 19:46 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-31 23:10 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-01 02:47 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-11-01 00:14 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-01 18:09 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 12:53 -0700
A decider for the proposition "Tristan is Olcott" (Was: Semantic properties of finite string inputs) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-01 20:15 +0000
Re: A decider for the proposition "Tristan is Olcott" (Was: Semantic properties of finite string inputs) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 14:06 -0700
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-31 22:13 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-01 02:53 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- More precisely olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 21:58 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- More precisely Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 04:23 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- More precisely olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 23:37 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- More precisely Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 07:47 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- More precisely olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 08:22 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- More precisely Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 16:54 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- More precisely olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 12:50 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- More precisely Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 20:59 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- More precisely olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 16:32 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- More precisely "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 14:37 -0700
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- More precisely Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 22:11 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- More precisely olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 17:17 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- More precisely Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 23:51 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- More precisely Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-01 18:14 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 13:38 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 14:45 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 14:01 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 15:05 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 14:13 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 22:46 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 17:50 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 23:47 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 18:56 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-02 00:12 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 19:18 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-02 00:50 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 20:13 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-02 02:40 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 21:49 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-02 17:47 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-02 07:39 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-02 07:19 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 22:13 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 22:19 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 17:31 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-02 17:57 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-01 22:36 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 17:38 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-02 07:43 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 22:59 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 18:09 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-02 22:32 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 19:51 -0700
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 12:50 -0700
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-01 20:23 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 15:32 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-01 21:16 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- deliberately misleading Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 22:00 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 03:38 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-11-01 00:19 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 17:37 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-31 23:16 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 19:38 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 01:05 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-11-01 02:38 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 21:43 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-31 22:17 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-10-31 12:48 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 08:58 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-10-31 17:43 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 13:25 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-31 22:26 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-31 17:49 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 17:38 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-31 23:06 +0000
Monty Python (Was: Semantic properties of finite string inputs) Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-01 20:30 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 15:36 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-31 14:06 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-10-31 19:57 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-31 22:32 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-01 20:36 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2025-11-02 20:49 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-11-02 22:44 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-03 17:32 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 11:57 -0600
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-11-02 22:48 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 03:46 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-31 12:17 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 11:51 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-31 13:42 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 13:45 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-10-31 20:10 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- many months of careful crafting olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 16:00 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- many months of careful crafting Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-31 22:45 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- many months of careful crafting Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-01 21:39 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- many months of careful crafting joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-01 12:01 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- many months of careful crafting olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 08:14 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-31 22:38 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-01 12:10 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 08:18 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-01 13:23 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 08:55 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 09:45 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 22:49 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 16:59 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 12:53 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 20:34 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- damned liars olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 16:45 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- damned liars Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 23:40 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Breakthrough olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 17:11 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Breakthrough Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 23:33 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Breakthrough olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 18:42 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Breakthrough Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 23:58 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Breakthrough olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 19:01 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Breakthrough Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-02 00:14 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Breakthrough olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 19:21 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Breakthrough Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-02 01:13 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Breakthrough "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 18:27 -0700
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Breakthrough Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-11-02 01:59 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs --- Breakthrough "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 19:24 -0700
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 17:10 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 12:15 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-11-01 17:25 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 12:29 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-11-01 18:03 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 20:38 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-10-31 17:46 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-31 13:57 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-10-31 20:16 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 13:26 -0700
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-10-31 20:43 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 13:57 -0700
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 16:06 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 14:22 -0700
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-01 11:55 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 08:12 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-01 13:26 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 08:56 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-31 14:23 -0700
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-31 22:50 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-01 21:47 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-01 00:38 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-01 21:50 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 16:57 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-31 22:49 -0400
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-01 21:54 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 16:59 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-11-01 22:28 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-11-01 13:44 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 08:57 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-11-01 16:07 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 12:07 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-11-01 17:26 +0000
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 12:31 -0500
Re: Semantic properties of finite string inputs "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-01 12:42 -0700
csiph-web