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Just got this but..

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  Just got this but.. "Brian Gaff" <Briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2011-12-29 18:06 +0000
    Re: Just got this but.. "Brian Gaff" <Briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2011-12-29 18:12 +0000
      Re: Just got this but.. "Brian Gaff" <Briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2011-12-30 08:26 +0000
        Re: Just got this but.. "Chris Cowley" <chrrris@gmail.com> - 2012-01-01 04:02 +0000
          Re: Just got this but.. "Brian Gaff" <Briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2012-01-01 10:01 +0000
            Re: Just got this but.. Guesser <alistair@alistairsserver.no-ip.org> - 2012-01-01 12:08 +0000
              Re: Just got this but.. nev young <newsforpasiphae1953@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-01 14:42 +0000
                Re: Just got this but.. Matthew Westcott <gasman@raww.org> - 2012-01-01 16:52 +0000
            Re: Just got this but.. "Chris Cowley" <chrrris@gmail.com> - 2012-01-02 18:16 +0000
              Re: Just got this but.. Guesser <alistair@alistairsserver.no-ip.org> - 2012-01-02 21:35 +0000
                Re: Just got this but.. "Chris Cowley" <chrrris@gmail.com> - 2012-01-02 22:34 +0000
                  Re: Just got this but.. nev young <newsforpasiphae1953@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-02 23:57 +0000
                    Re: Just got this but.. Duncan Snowden <duncan_s@talktalk.net> - 2012-01-03 15:32 +0000
                      Re: Just got this but.. "Paul E Collins" <equi+web@cl4.invalid> - 2012-01-03 17:09 +0000
                        Re: Just got this but.. Guesser <alistair@alistairsserver.no-ip.org> - 2012-01-03 20:57 +0000
                          Re: Just got this but.. "Paul E Collins" <equi+web@cl4.invalid> - 2012-01-03 22:29 +0000
                        Re: Just got this but.. "Chris Cowley" <chrrris@gmail.com> - 2012-01-04 15:08 +0000
                        Re: Just got this but.. "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-01-29 10:21 +0000

#574 — Just got this but..

Cannot really do much on that site due to its dubious accessibility.

Roger Jowett shared a post with you on Google+. Google+ makes sharing on
the web more like sharing in real life. Learn more:
http://www.google.com/+/learnmore/
You have received this message because Roger Jowett shared it with
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk.

"sam coupe demo atom lite happy 20th birthday ati hi deff"

Accept the invitation to view the full post:
https://plus.google.com/_/notifications/emlink?emrecipient=117077052315648048048&emid=CICw5qO0p60CFeYgNAodVSgAAA&path=%2F107962273909816416002%2Fposts%2FD2nYF2tBTnJ%3Fgpinv%3DAMIXal86EFPQN8kfBEWrtDQgGSxwAqVkUmH52G3sh6QtCNYl6qiZUxFvOPkXk7h-9G1iGEpMUYWxRHHLKcMQfcqS_RPTItQKzDVAe6z0hHILE9qoKSixtXo%26hl%3Den_GB&dt=1325166063361

------------------------
You have received this message because Roger Jowett shared it with
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk. Click here to unsubscribe from these emails:
https://plus.google.com/_/notifications/emlink?emrecipient=117077052315648048048&emid=CICw5qO0p60CFeYgNAodVSgAAA&path=%2F_%2Fnonplus%2Femailsettings%3Fgpinv%3DAMIXal86EFPQN8kfBEWrtDQgGSxwAqVkUmH52G3sh6QtCNYl6qiZUxFvOPkXk7h-9G1iGEpMUYWxRHHLKcMQfcqS_RPTItQKzDVAe6z0hHILE9qoKSixtXo%26est%3DADH5u8UR0zXCRa7qG841L2_c1yJjknZf-09mtk65ceR3Mv4KII2ja6K4eDpb711MRIUNqpuiSDemA5ulSbwkdKZdJ6Xd6OUodmt8fvF1EiXfw0F37KJzE97cI-bv0hZxMS8XzS0h--W-o_Ve-DKmQ7O_0vR8eVfg4g%26hl%3Den_GB&dt=1325166063361



Incidentally I've left Farcebook as well for the same issues.
 Life is too short to play about trying to find the answer to continuously 
changing front end interfaces to social media.
 Brian

-- 
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
 graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

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#575

Google plus makes sharing  more like a hassle than a simple link.. grin

Brian

-- 
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
 graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________


"Brian Gaff" <Briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:jdia75$24e$1@dont-email.me...
> Cannot really do much on that site due to its dubious accessibility.
>
> Roger Jowett shared a post with you on Google+. Google+ makes sharing on
> the web more like sharing in real life. Learn more:
> http://www.google.com/+/learnmore/
> You have received this message because Roger Jowett shared it with
> briang1@blueyonder.co.uk.
>
> "sam coupe demo atom lite happy 20th birthday ati hi deff"
>
> Accept the invitation to view the full post:
> https://plus.google.com/_/notifications/emlink?emrecipient=117077052315648048048&emid=CICw5qO0p60CFeYgNAodVSgAAA&path=%2F107962273909816416002%2Fposts%2FD2nYF2tBTnJ%3Fgpinv%3DAMIXal86EFPQN8kfBEWrtDQgGSxwAqVkUmH52G3sh6QtCNYl6qiZUxFvOPkXk7h-9G1iGEpMUYWxRHHLKcMQfcqS_RPTItQKzDVAe6z0hHILE9qoKSixtXo%26hl%3Den_GB&dt=1325166063361
>
> ------------------------
> You have received this message because Roger Jowett shared it with
> briang1@blueyonder.co.uk. Click here to unsubscribe from these emails:
> https://plus.google.com/_/notifications/emlink?emrecipient=117077052315648048048&emid=CICw5qO0p60CFeYgNAodVSgAAA&path=%2F_%2Fnonplus%2Femailsettings%3Fgpinv%3DAMIXal86EFPQN8kfBEWrtDQgGSxwAqVkUmH52G3sh6QtCNYl6qiZUxFvOPkXk7h-9G1iGEpMUYWxRHHLKcMQfcqS_RPTItQKzDVAe6z0hHILE9qoKSixtXo%26est%3DADH5u8UR0zXCRa7qG841L2_c1yJjknZf-09mtk65ceR3Mv4KII2ja6K4eDpb711MRIUNqpuiSDemA5ulSbwkdKZdJ6Xd6OUodmt8fvF1EiXfw0F37KJzE97cI-bv0hZxMS8XzS0h--W-o_Ve-DKmQ7O_0vR8eVfg4g%26hl%3Den_GB&dt=1325166063361
>
>
>
> Incidentally I've left Farcebook as well for the same issues.
> Life is too short to play about trying to find the answer to continuously 
> changing front end interfaces to social media.
> Brian
>
> -- 
> Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
> graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
> Email: briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
> ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> 

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#576

Actually for those not in the know, its pointless sending me links to silent 
videos or social network invites.
Being blind now I have a somewhat different  outlook on the internet.
Brian

-- 
Brian Gaff - briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Brian Gaff" <Briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:jdiahj$44d$1@dont-email.me...
> Google plus makes sharing  more like a hassle than a simple link.. grin
>
> Brian
>
> -- 
> Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
> graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
> Email: briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
> ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> "Brian Gaff" <Briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:jdia75$24e$1@dont-email.me...
>> Cannot really do much on that site due to its dubious accessibility.
>>
>> Roger Jowett shared a post with you on Google+. Google+ makes sharing on
>> the web more like sharing in real life. Learn more:
>> http://www.google.com/+/learnmore/
>> You have received this message because Roger Jowett shared it with
>> briang1@blueyonder.co.uk.
>>
>> "sam coupe demo atom lite happy 20th birthday ati hi deff"
>>
>> Accept the invitation to view the full post:
>> https://plus.google.com/_/notifications/emlink?emrecipient=117077052315648048048&emid=CICw5qO0p60CFeYgNAodVSgAAA&path=%2F107962273909816416002%2Fposts%2FD2nYF2tBTnJ%3Fgpinv%3DAMIXal86EFPQN8kfBEWrtDQgGSxwAqVkUmH52G3sh6QtCNYl6qiZUxFvOPkXk7h-9G1iGEpMUYWxRHHLKcMQfcqS_RPTItQKzDVAe6z0hHILE9qoKSixtXo%26hl%3Den_GB&dt=1325166063361
>>
>> ------------------------
>> You have received this message because Roger Jowett shared it with
>> briang1@blueyonder.co.uk. Click here to unsubscribe from these emails:
>> https://plus.google.com/_/notifications/emlink?emrecipient=117077052315648048048&emid=CICw5qO0p60CFeYgNAodVSgAAA&path=%2F_%2Fnonplus%2Femailsettings%3Fgpinv%3DAMIXal86EFPQN8kfBEWrtDQgGSxwAqVkUmH52G3sh6QtCNYl6qiZUxFvOPkXk7h-9G1iGEpMUYWxRHHLKcMQfcqS_RPTItQKzDVAe6z0hHILE9qoKSixtXo%26est%3DADH5u8UR0zXCRa7qG841L2_c1yJjknZf-09mtk65ceR3Mv4KII2ja6K4eDpb711MRIUNqpuiSDemA5ulSbwkdKZdJ6Xd6OUodmt8fvF1EiXfw0F37KJzE97cI-bv0hZxMS8XzS0h--W-o_Ve-DKmQ7O_0vR8eVfg4g%26hl%3Den_GB&dt=1325166063361
>>
>>
>>
>> Incidentally I've left Farcebook as well for the same issues.
>> Life is too short to play about trying to find the answer to continuously 
>> changing front end interfaces to social media.
>> Brian
>>
>> -- 
>> Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
>> graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
>> Email: briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
>> ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
> 

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#579

Brian Gaff wrote:

> Actually for those not in the know, its pointless sending me links to
> silent videos or social network invites.  Being blind now I have a
> somewhat different  outlook on the internet.  Brian

Facebook claims to have been working with the American Foundation for
the Blind (www.afb.org) since 2009 to make their site accessible for
blind users.

http://www.facebook.com/help.php?page=440 is the facebook "Help page
for Accessibility and Assistive Technology" which I think is American
bullshit-speak for "Help for disabled users". The site is supposed to
work properly with screen readers and all of that sort of gubbins.
-- 
Chris

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#580

I hear what you say, but in my view they alter their interface  at a whim, 
which poses problems, also their idea of access is that you need the latest 
version of Jaws, then need a course in using all the latest features to 
enable you to do it. That is like saying you need to have a degree and a 
Rolls Royce before we will  let  you in in my view.
However we are talking google plus here and despite a lot of us joining up 
to their accessibility  mailing list and trying to help them, they have 
seemingly decided that  they will ignore most of the advice given by the 
blind users and instead  made a talking add in to Chrome. It simply is not 
right that we should need to change browsers for us to access a site. its 
arrogant to expect folk to change just for them. Generally Chrome is crap 
for blind users .
 Thus I feel that what is going on here is that support for blind users 
generally is basically an afterthought for most  organisations. its sad 
because given the right designs it should not cramp their style if thought 
about at inception. hereby hangs the problem. Nobody is teaching web 
designers or software designers about hoe to preserve access.
 I suspect this is because there is a cost implication in this activity.
 We instead get fobbed of with mobile sites and text only version, simple 
html versions all with reduced features as if we are some kind of sub class 
to humanity as a whole.
 To show how things can slip for example, a couple of years ago, the RNIB 
worked with Amazon on getting their main site accessible. This lasted about 
9 months, then all of a sudden their  move to basket and one click order 
buttons lost their legends for the blind and despite lots of  reports of 
this, nothing has been done.
 Brian

-- 
Brian Gaff - briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Chris Cowley" <chrrris@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:jdolsm$5nf$1@dont-email.me...
> Brian Gaff wrote:
>
>> Actually for those not in the know, its pointless sending me links to
>> silent videos or social network invites.  Being blind now I have a
>> somewhat different  outlook on the internet.  Brian
>
> Facebook claims to have been working with the American Foundation for
> the Blind (www.afb.org) since 2009 to make their site accessible for
> blind users.
>
> http://www.facebook.com/help.php?page=440 is the facebook "Help page
> for Accessibility and Assistive Technology" which I think is American
> bullshit-speak for "Help for disabled users". The site is supposed to
> work properly with screen readers and all of that sort of gubbins.
> -- 
> Chris 

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#581

On 01/01/2012 10:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
>   I suspect this is because there is a cost implication in this activity.

I think you may have found the underlying reason for everything that 
companies do there... Also worth noting that blind users make up a small 
number of users and have zero value to companies like google and 
facebook. Why go to the cost and effort of allowing you to use the site 
when you can't see the adverts anyway? What's in it for them...

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#582

On 01/01/12 12:08, Guesser wrote:
> On 01/01/2012 10:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> I suspect this is because there is a cost implication in this activity.
>
> I think you may have found the underlying reason for everything that
> companies do there... Also worth noting that blind users make up a small
> number of users and have zero value to companies like google and
> facebook. Why go to the cost and effort of allowing you to use the site
> when you can't see the adverts anyway? What's in it for them...

Alistair is probably right there Brian. Many companies can't be bothered 
to make their web sites work for non Microsoft browsers, because the 
rest is such a small market. Blind users will be an even smaller 
minority and worth even less bother.

I don't know if this already exists but some sort of validation engine 
like the w3c validation service but for blind access would help as, to 
state the bloody obvious, a sighted person just can't tell if a blind 
person can access their site.

-- 
nev
getting the wrong stick end since 1953

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#583

On 01/01/2012 14:42, nev young wrote:
> Alistair is probably right there Brian. Many companies can't be bothered
> to make their web sites work for non Microsoft browsers, because the
> rest is such a small market.

True 5 years ago, not today. Internet Explorer has around 40% market 
share now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers

> I don't know if this already exists but some sort of validation engine
> like the w3c validation service but for blind access would help as, to
> state the bloody obvious, a sighted person just can't tell if a blind
> person can access their site.

They exist, but automatic validators and checklists can only take you so 
far. They can tell you whether or not your images have alt text... they 
can't tell you whether that alt text is any good, or whether it takes 
half an hour to actually find anything.

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#584

Brian Gaff wrote:

> However we are talking google plus here and despite a lot of
> us joining up to their accessibility  mailing list and trying to help
> them, they have seemingly decided that  they will ignore most of the
> advice given by the blind users and instead  made a talking add in to
> Chrome.

Well, not that it's really any consolation, but I think the Google plus
user interface is pretty rubbish for sighted people too (both the
website and the Android app)  :)

Google+ has served the very useful purpose of forcing Facebook to
implement ways of categorising and filtering news feeds that were sadly
lacking before, but I reckon it'll end up going the way of Buzz in the
next couple of years.

Facebook will really have to mess up in a monumental way to shed all of
the momentum they've gained now.
-- 
Chris

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#585

On 02/01/2012 18:16, Chris Cowley wrote:
> Facebook will really have to mess up in a monumental way to shed all of
> the momentum they've gained now.

This is facebook, never underestimate their ability to totally trash 
everything...

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#586

Guesser wrote:

> This is facebook, never underestimate their ability to totally trash
> everything...

Heheh... True enough. As unlikely as I think it *probably* is, it's
definitely well within Facebook's grasp to screw it up still -- perhaps
with some password-leak or hacking scandal or some such.
-- 
Chris

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#587

On 02/01/12 22:34, Chris Cowley wrote:
> Guesser wrote:
>
>> This is facebook, never underestimate their ability to totally trash
>> everything...
>
> Heheh... True enough. As unlikely as I think it *probably* is, it's
> definitely well within Facebook's grasp to screw it up still -- perhaps
> with some password-leak or hacking scandal or some such.

For all facebook users. If you haven't already done so,
have a look at SocialFixer.com
It stops many of the annoyances of facebook.

-- 
nev
getting the wrong stick end since 1953

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#588

On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 23:57:59 +0000
nev young <newsforpasiphae1953@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> It stops many of the annoyances of facebook.

I generally find the *best* way to avoid the annoyances of Facebook is
not to use it.

-- 
Duncan Snowden.

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#589

On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 15:32:01 -0000, Duncan Snowden <duncan_s@talktalk.net>  
wrote:

>> It stops many of the annoyances of facebook.
>
> I generally find the *best* way to avoid the annoyances of Facebook is  
> not to use it.

I wish! It's still splattered disgustingly over newspapers and product  
packaging and is on the lips of everyone in every pub and restaurant.

Eq.

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#590

On 03/01/2012 17:09, Paul E Collins wrote:
> I wish! It's still splattered disgustingly over newspapers and product
> packaging and is on the lips of everyone in every pub and restaurant.

You could cut off your ears and poke your eyes out...

Or y'know, just ignore it if it doesn't interest you ;)

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#591

On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 20:57:16 -0000, Guesser  
<alistair@alistairsserver.no-ip.org> wrote:

> Or y'know, just ignore it if it doesn't interest you ;)

Uh yeah. I'll turn the page of the paper just BEFORE the bit that mentions  
Facebook, thanks to my psychic powers.

Eq.

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#592

Paul E Collins wrote:

> I wish! It's still splattered disgustingly over newspapers and
> product  packaging and is on the lips of everyone in every pub and
> restaurant.

I honestly don't see what the problem is with Facebook. I appreciate
some of the terminology is a bit crap (calling contacts "friends" can
sometimes be a bit misleading, for example) but there's lots of decent
content on there if you choose your contacts wisely (or if you filter
out the posts from people who feel compelled to update their Facebook
status every time they brush their teeth, exhale, or move to a
different location).

It's good for sharing photos/screengrabs and videos and stuff. Usenet
and, to a lesser extent, forums are a bit crap at that.

I quite like it. Mind you, I have purposefully avoided entering any
personal info about my education/work history and so on (or made stuff
up where appropriate), as I don't particularly want FB's marketing
people knowing any of that. Suppose that just means I get targeted ads
intended for someone else.

There are a lot of Sinclair/Speccy fans & hackers on there...
-- 
Chris

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#620

Paul E Collins wrote:

> On Tue, 03 Jan 2012 15:32:01 -0000, Duncan Snowden
> <duncan_s@talktalk.net>  wrote:
> 
> > > It stops many of the annoyances of facebook.
> > 
> > I generally find the best way to avoid the annoyances of Facebook
> > is   not to use it.
> 
> I wish! It's still splattered disgustingly over newspapers and
> product  packaging and is on the lips of everyone in every pub and
> restaurant.
> 
> Eq.

Some of them believe that they have released arab-spring, tsk.

I think the initial hype of facebook is over.


-- 
Daniel Mandic 

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