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Groups > comp.sys.sinclair > #847 > unrolled thread
| Started by | "Chris Young" <chris.usenet@mail-filter.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2012-04-22 17:08 +0100 |
| Last post | 2012-05-18 05:21 -0700 |
| Articles | 9 on this page of 89 — 23 participants |
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ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Chris Young" <chris.usenet@mail-filter.com> - 2012-04-22 17:08 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-04-22 20:49 +0200
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 andy rea <ask_me@ask.me> - 2012-04-22 21:43 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Wasted" <removematd@deletematd.adsl24.co.uk> - 2012-04-22 23:12 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-04-23 00:37 +0200
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 spike1@freenet.co.uk - 2012-04-23 11:27 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-23 19:17 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 deKay <andyk@lofi-gaming.org.uk.invalid> - 2012-04-23 20:33 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-24 19:54 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 deKay <andyk@lofi-gaming.org.uk.invalid> - 2012-04-24 15:27 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-13 15:39 +0000
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-17 20:04 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2012-04-23 22:03 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 hp <ferd@farkel.net> - 2012-04-24 20:07 -0400
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-04-25 18:03 +0200
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 lizardb0y <andrew.stephen@gmail.com> - 2012-04-22 15:08 -0700
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-23 17:07 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 spike1@freenet.co.uk - 2012-04-23 11:28 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-23 19:16 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-04-23 21:44 +0200
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-24 19:55 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-04-23 21:08 +0200
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-04-23 21:39 +0200
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 andy rea <ask_me@ask.me> - 2012-04-23 20:45 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-04-23 21:54 +0200
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-24 19:58 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-04-24 17:21 +0200
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-25 06:41 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Martijn van Buul <pino@dohd.org> - 2012-04-24 12:07 +0000
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-04-24 16:59 +0200
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-25 06:46 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Calum <com.gmail@nospam.scottishwildcat> - 2012-04-23 12:50 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-24 20:00 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-13 15:59 +0000
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-15 06:12 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-15 08:44 +0000
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-20 08:18 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Guesser <alistair@alistairsserver.no-ip.org> - 2012-05-20 01:44 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-22 16:50 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Guesser <alistair@alistairsserver.no-ip.org> - 2012-05-22 11:12 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-22 18:48 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Andrew Owen <aowen10@mail.bbk.ac.uk> - 2012-05-22 12:47 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 deKay <andyk@lofi-gaming.org.uk.invalid> - 2012-05-22 13:24 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-24 06:29 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-25 21:48 +0000
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-26 18:17 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-26 13:38 +0000
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-27 10:36 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Matthew Westcott <gasman@raww.org> - 2012-05-26 20:56 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-27 10:41 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-05-27 12:16 +0200
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-28 12:56 +0000
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Andreas Kohlbach <april12.8.ankman@spamgourmet.com> - 2012-05-28 17:35 -0400
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-30 17:56 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Andreas Kohlbach <april12.8.ankman@spamgourmet.com> - 2012-05-30 16:01 -0400
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Martijn van Buul <pino@dohd.org> - 2012-05-31 07:16 +0000
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-31 18:21 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 deKay <andyk@lofi-gaming.org.uk.invalid> - 2012-05-28 15:07 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Chris Young" <chris.usenet@mail-filter.com> - 2012-05-22 18:19 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Duncan Snowden <duncan_s@talktalk.net> - 2012-05-23 23:35 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-25 21:57 +0000
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-25 21:29 +0000
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-25 21:15 +0000
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-27 10:48 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-05-27 12:25 +0200
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Mic <mic_carusoQWERTY@libero.it> - 2012-06-17 01:37 +0200
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Guesser <alistair@alistairsserver.no-ip.org> - 2012-05-27 11:55 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-27 21:40 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Guesser <alistair@alistairsserver.no-ip.org> - 2012-05-27 14:57 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-21 18:44 +0000
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Andrew Owen <aowen10@mail.bbk.ac.uk> - 2012-05-21 01:03 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Chris Young" <chris.usenet@mail-filter.com> - 2012-05-21 18:13 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-22 16:54 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Andrew Owen <aowen10@mail.bbk.ac.uk> - 2012-05-22 12:48 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-24 06:32 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Andrew Owen <aowen10@mail.bbk.ac.uk> - 2012-05-24 07:01 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Chris Young" <chris.usenet@mail-filter.com> - 2012-05-24 18:15 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-26 18:23 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-05-26 18:29 +0200
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-26 18:21 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Duncan Snowden <duncan_s@talktalk.net> - 2012-05-26 19:53 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-05-26 21:19 +0200
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-27 10:50 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Duncan Snowden <duncan_s@talktalk.net> - 2012-05-28 16:32 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-29 12:11 +0800
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Duncan Snowden <duncan_s@talktalk.net> - 2012-05-31 17:34 +0100
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Groepaz <groepaz@gmx.net> - 2012-04-23 14:27 +0200
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Pedro" <pcm2000@teleline.es> - 2012-04-26 01:03 +0200
Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 rogerjowett <rogerjowett@gmail.com> - 2012-05-18 05:21 -0700
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| From | Duncan Snowden <duncan_s@talktalk.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-05-26 19:53 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <20120526195327.48f4296a@talktalk.net> |
| In reply to | #1122 |
On Sat, 26 May 2012 18:21:48 +0800 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> wrote: > Andrew Owen wrote: > > There's a VIC-20 emulator available for the Spectrum. > > Try running Robotic Liberation or Frogger '07 on it and get back to > us... Well, yeah, okay, it's not perfect: "As per the UK101 emulator, this program has a virtual 6502 core. It emulates all the NMOS 6502 instructions and most of the CMOS 6502 instructions too. Only the BBS,BBR,STO,WAI,SMB and RMB instructions are not implemented." I bet those games use the unimplemented instructions, right? -- Duncan Snowden.
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| From | Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-05-26 21:19 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <4fc12c89$0$14709$5fc3050@news.tiscali.nl> |
| In reply to | #1128 |
Op 26-May-12 20:53, Duncan Snowden schreef: > On Sat, 26 May 2012 18:21:48 +0800 > "Clocky"<notgonn@happen.com> wrote: > >> Andrew Owen wrote: >>> There's a VIC-20 emulator available for the Spectrum. >> >> Try running Robotic Liberation or Frogger '07 on it and get back to >> us... > > Well, yeah, okay, it's not perfect: > > "As per the UK101 emulator, this program has a virtual 6502 core. It > emulates all the NMOS 6502 instructions and most of the CMOS 6502 > instructions too. Only the BBS,BBR,STO,WAI,SMB and RMB instructions are > not implemented." > > I bet those games use the unimplemented instructions, right? Chances are these programs rely on accurate emulation of the VIC chip itself and also accurate timing (e.g. for raster-bars effects and other tricks which require registers to be written at exactly the right time). Emulation was even for PC's up until about a decade ago quite hard to do it accurate enough so that 99.9% of the programs would run like on the real thing. If the programs use undocumented instructions the support for the CMOS 6502 instructions actually would work against it, since the opcodes of the NMOS 6502 undocumented instructions (in reality just unintended side effects) are used by CMOS 6502 for documented instructions with other effects.
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| From | "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-05-27 10:50 +0800 |
| Message-ID | <4fc19677$0$29869$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #1128 |
Duncan Snowden wrote: > On Sat, 26 May 2012 18:21:48 +0800 > "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> wrote: > >> Andrew Owen wrote: >>> There's a VIC-20 emulator available for the Spectrum. >> >> Try running Robotic Liberation or Frogger '07 on it and get back to >> us... > > Well, yeah, okay, it's not perfect: > > "As per the UK101 emulator, this program has a virtual 6502 core. It > emulates all the NMOS 6502 instructions and most of the CMOS 6502 > instructions too. Only the BBS,BBR,STO,WAI,SMB and RMB instructions > are not implemented." > > I bet those games use the unimplemented instructions, right? Dunno, but it won't run those programs at any rate, they require accurate emulation not the mess that emulator makes of a real VIC-20. As is a Spectrum could emulate a 6502 at 1Mhz and a VIC-I... sheez.
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| From | Duncan Snowden <duncan_s@talktalk.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-05-28 16:32 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <20120528163238.4666b09c@talktalk.net> |
| In reply to | #1135 |
On Sun, 27 May 2012 10:50:55 +0800 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> wrote: > As if a Spectrum could emulate a 6502 at 1Mhz and a VIC-I... sheez. Well, it does say it needs a 50MHz Spectrum. Not too many of those about, to be fair. -- Duncan Snowden.
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| From | "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-05-29 12:11 +0800 |
| Message-ID | <4fc44c72$0$1555$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com> |
| In reply to | #1159 |
Duncan Snowden wrote: > On Sun, 27 May 2012 10:50:55 +0800 > "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> wrote: > >> As if a Spectrum could emulate a 6502 at 1Mhz and a VIC-I... sheez. > > Well, it does say it needs a 50MHz Spectrum. Not too many of those > about, to be fair. I wonder how well the ZX emulator for the C64 does with a SuperCPU...
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| From | Duncan Snowden <duncan_s@talktalk.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-05-31 17:34 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <20120531173447.7d60a318@talktalk.net> |
| In reply to | #1162 |
On Tue, 29 May 2012 12:11:36 +0800 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> wrote: > Duncan Snowden wrote: > > On Sun, 27 May 2012 10:50:55 +0800 > > "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> wrote: > > > >> As if a Spectrum could emulate a 6502 at 1Mhz and a VIC-I... sheez. > > > > Well, it does say it needs a 50MHz Spectrum. Not too many of those > > about, to be fair. > > I wonder how well the ZX emulator for the C64 does with a SuperCPU... AFAIK, it's only a BASIC interpreter with the C64's high-res mode standing in as a reasonable facsimile of the Speccy's display, rather than being a full emulator as most people would understand the term. The closest thing to "emulation" is the reproduction of the Spectrum's single-key entry BASIC editor. So it runs more or less full-speed on a stock '64 (and is pretty impressive: fooled me the first time I saw it, for what that's worth), but throwing more grunt at it won't improve anything. Unless things have moved on when I wasn't looking (which is entirely possible). The fact that high-res mode and the Spectrum's display are so similar means, I suspect, that a real emulator would definitely be possible on a souped-up Commodore (although you'd still have to handle the Spectrum's weird first-line/ninth-line/second-line... bitmap layout, which I don't think it shares). The more I look at the documentation of TwentyCommodes, the more flaws I see. It's pretty limited in its VIC-I emulation too. But it is a genuine emulator. -- Duncan Snowden.
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| From | Groepaz <groepaz@gmx.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-23 14:27 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <4f954aaf$0$7615$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net> |
| In reply to | #847 |
Chris Young wrote: > http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a377768/zx-spectrum-vs- commodore-64-gamings-greatest-rivalry.html even spectrum was more fun in 1985 -- http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net http://www.pokefinder.org http://ftp.pokefinder.org A critic is a man who knows the way but can't drive the car. <Kenneth Tynan>
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| From | "Pedro" <pcm2000@teleline.es> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-04-26 01:03 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <jn9vr1$fn4$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #847 |
"Chris Young" wrote in message news:4F943B27.MD-1.4.17.chris.young@unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk... http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a377768/zx-spectrum-vs-commodore-64-gamings-greatest-rivalry.html Discuss. Chris Choose a computer for its mind not its body!! Then the discussion will turn to Z80 vs 6502 which has an obvious outcome. This is my personal opinion and like many others. regards, Pedro
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| From | rogerjowett <rogerjowett@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2012-05-18 05:21 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <27a4723c-a181-4659-b3b5-094e65a7fd61@w13g2000vbc.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #847 |
On Apr 22, 5:08 pm, "Chris Young" <chris.use...@mail-filter.com> wrote: > http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a377768/zx-spectrum-vs-commod... > > Discuss. > > Chris > > -- > +-------------------------------------------+ > | Unsatisfactory Software - "because it is" | > | http://www.unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk | > | Your Sinclair: A Celebration | > +-http://www.yoursinclair.co.uk-----------+ > > DISCLAIMER: I may be making all this stuff up again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc4Xoz75yHI please help persuade lcd to add hmpr bit 5&6 support for mode 3 interlaced sam coupe animations
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