Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.sys.sinclair > #847 > unrolled thread

ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64

Started by"Chris Young" <chris.usenet@mail-filter.com>
First post2012-04-22 17:08 +0100
Last post2012-05-18 05:21 -0700
Articles 9 on this page of 89 — 23 participants

Back to article view | Back to comp.sys.sinclair


Contents

  ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Chris Young" <chris.usenet@mail-filter.com> - 2012-04-22 17:08 +0100
    Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-04-22 20:49 +0200
      Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 andy rea <ask_me@ask.me> - 2012-04-22 21:43 +0100
        Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Wasted" <removematd@deletematd.adsl24.co.uk> - 2012-04-22 23:12 +0100
          Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-04-23 00:37 +0200
            Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 spike1@freenet.co.uk - 2012-04-23 11:27 +0100
              Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-23 19:17 +0800
      Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 deKay <andyk@lofi-gaming.org.uk.invalid> - 2012-04-23 20:33 +0100
        Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-24 19:54 +0800
          Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 deKay <andyk@lofi-gaming.org.uk.invalid> - 2012-04-24 15:27 +0100
        Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-13 15:39 +0000
          Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-17 20:04 +0800
      Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2012-04-23 22:03 +0100
        Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 hp <ferd@farkel.net> - 2012-04-24 20:07 -0400
          Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-04-25 18:03 +0200
    Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 lizardb0y <andrew.stephen@gmail.com> - 2012-04-22 15:08 -0700
    Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-23 17:07 +0800
      Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 spike1@freenet.co.uk - 2012-04-23 11:28 +0100
        Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-23 19:16 +0800
          Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-04-23 21:44 +0200
            Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-24 19:55 +0800
        Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-04-23 21:08 +0200
        Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-04-23 21:39 +0200
          Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 andy rea <ask_me@ask.me> - 2012-04-23 20:45 +0100
            Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-04-23 21:54 +0200
          Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-24 19:58 +0800
            Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-04-24 17:21 +0200
              Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-25 06:41 +0800
          Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Martijn van Buul <pino@dohd.org> - 2012-04-24 12:07 +0000
            Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-04-24 16:59 +0200
          Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-25 06:46 +0800
      Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Calum <com.gmail@nospam.scottishwildcat> - 2012-04-23 12:50 +0100
        Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-04-24 20:00 +0800
      Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-13 15:59 +0000
        Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-15 06:12 +0800
          Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-15 08:44 +0000
            Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-20 08:18 +0800
              Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Guesser <alistair@alistairsserver.no-ip.org> - 2012-05-20 01:44 +0100
                Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-22 16:50 +0800
                  Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Guesser <alistair@alistairsserver.no-ip.org> - 2012-05-22 11:12 +0100
                    Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-22 18:48 +0800
                      Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Andrew Owen <aowen10@mail.bbk.ac.uk> - 2012-05-22 12:47 +0100
                        Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 deKay <andyk@lofi-gaming.org.uk.invalid> - 2012-05-22 13:24 +0100
                          Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-24 06:29 +0800
                            Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-25 21:48 +0000
                              Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-26 18:17 +0800
                                Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-26 13:38 +0000
                                  Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-27 10:36 +0800
                              Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Matthew Westcott <gasman@raww.org> - 2012-05-26 20:56 +0100
                                Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-27 10:41 +0800
                                  Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-05-27 12:16 +0200
                                Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-28 12:56 +0000
                                Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Andreas Kohlbach <april12.8.ankman@spamgourmet.com> - 2012-05-28 17:35 -0400
                                  Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-30 17:56 +0800
                                    Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Andreas Kohlbach <april12.8.ankman@spamgourmet.com> - 2012-05-30 16:01 -0400
                                      Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Martijn van Buul <pino@dohd.org> - 2012-05-31 07:16 +0000
                                        Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-31 18:21 +0800
                            Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 deKay <andyk@lofi-gaming.org.uk.invalid> - 2012-05-28 15:07 +0100
                        Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Chris Young" <chris.usenet@mail-filter.com> - 2012-05-22 18:19 +0100
                          Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Duncan Snowden <duncan_s@talktalk.net> - 2012-05-23 23:35 +0100
                            Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-25 21:57 +0000
                        Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-25 21:29 +0000
                      Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-25 21:15 +0000
                        Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-27 10:48 +0800
                          Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetelo@ask.me> - 2012-05-27 12:25 +0200
                            Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Mic <mic_carusoQWERTY@libero.it> - 2012-06-17 01:37 +0200
                          Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Guesser <alistair@alistairsserver.no-ip.org> - 2012-05-27 11:55 +0100
                            Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-27 21:40 +0800
                              Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Guesser <alistair@alistairsserver.no-ip.org> - 2012-05-27 14:57 +0100
              Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Daniel Mandic" <daniel_mandic@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-21 18:44 +0000
      Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Andrew Owen <aowen10@mail.bbk.ac.uk> - 2012-05-21 01:03 +0100
        Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Chris Young" <chris.usenet@mail-filter.com> - 2012-05-21 18:13 +0100
        Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-22 16:54 +0800
          Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Andrew Owen <aowen10@mail.bbk.ac.uk> - 2012-05-22 12:48 +0100
            Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-24 06:32 +0800
              Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Andrew Owen <aowen10@mail.bbk.ac.uk> - 2012-05-24 07:01 +0100
                Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Chris Young" <chris.usenet@mail-filter.com> - 2012-05-24 18:15 +0100
                  Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-26 18:23 +0800
                  Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-05-26 18:29 +0200
                Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-26 18:21 +0800
                  Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Duncan Snowden <duncan_s@talktalk.net> - 2012-05-26 19:53 +0100
                    Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> - 2012-05-26 21:19 +0200
                    Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-27 10:50 +0800
                      Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Duncan Snowden <duncan_s@talktalk.net> - 2012-05-28 16:32 +0100
                        Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> - 2012-05-29 12:11 +0800
                          Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Duncan Snowden <duncan_s@talktalk.net> - 2012-05-31 17:34 +0100
    Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 Groepaz <groepaz@gmx.net> - 2012-04-23 14:27 +0200
    Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 "Pedro" <pcm2000@teleline.es> - 2012-04-26 01:03 +0200
    Re: ZX Spectrum vs Commodore 64 rogerjowett <rogerjowett@gmail.com> - 2012-05-18 05:21 -0700

Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]


#1128

FromDuncan Snowden <duncan_s@talktalk.net>
Date2012-05-26 19:53 +0100
Message-ID<20120526195327.48f4296a@talktalk.net>
In reply to#1122
On Sat, 26 May 2012 18:21:48 +0800
"Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> wrote:

> Andrew Owen wrote:
> > There's a VIC-20 emulator available for the Spectrum.
> 
> Try running Robotic Liberation or Frogger '07 on it and get back to
> us...

Well, yeah, okay, it's not perfect:

"As per the UK101 emulator, this program has a virtual 6502 core. It
emulates all the NMOS 6502 instructions and most of the CMOS 6502
instructions too. Only the BBS,BBR,STO,WAI,SMB and RMB instructions are
not implemented."

I bet those games use the unimplemented instructions, right?

-- 
Duncan Snowden.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1129

FromDombo <dombo@disposable.invalid>
Date2012-05-26 21:19 +0200
Message-ID<4fc12c89$0$14709$5fc3050@news.tiscali.nl>
In reply to#1128
Op 26-May-12 20:53, Duncan Snowden schreef:
> On Sat, 26 May 2012 18:21:48 +0800
> "Clocky"<notgonn@happen.com>  wrote:
>
>> Andrew Owen wrote:
>>> There's a VIC-20 emulator available for the Spectrum.
>>
>> Try running Robotic Liberation or Frogger '07 on it and get back to
>> us...
>
> Well, yeah, okay, it's not perfect:
>
> "As per the UK101 emulator, this program has a virtual 6502 core. It
> emulates all the NMOS 6502 instructions and most of the CMOS 6502
> instructions too. Only the BBS,BBR,STO,WAI,SMB and RMB instructions are
> not implemented."
>
> I bet those games use the unimplemented instructions, right?

Chances are these programs rely on accurate emulation of the VIC chip 
itself and also accurate timing (e.g. for raster-bars effects and other 
tricks which require registers to be written at exactly the right time). 
Emulation was even for PC's up until about a decade ago quite hard to do 
it accurate enough so that 99.9% of the programs would run like on the 
real thing.

If the programs use undocumented instructions the support for the CMOS 
6502 instructions actually would work against it, since the opcodes of 
the NMOS 6502 undocumented instructions (in reality just unintended 
side effects) are used by CMOS 6502 for documented instructions with 
other effects.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1135

From"Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com>
Date2012-05-27 10:50 +0800
Message-ID<4fc19677$0$29869$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#1128
Duncan Snowden wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2012 18:21:48 +0800
> "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> wrote:
>
>> Andrew Owen wrote:
>>> There's a VIC-20 emulator available for the Spectrum.
>>
>> Try running Robotic Liberation or Frogger '07 on it and get back to
>> us...
>
> Well, yeah, okay, it's not perfect:
>
> "As per the UK101 emulator, this program has a virtual 6502 core. It
> emulates all the NMOS 6502 instructions and most of the CMOS 6502
> instructions too. Only the BBS,BBR,STO,WAI,SMB and RMB instructions
> are not implemented."
>
> I bet those games use the unimplemented instructions, right?

Dunno, but it won't run those programs at any rate, they require accurate 
emulation not the mess that emulator makes of a real VIC-20.

As is a Spectrum could emulate a 6502 at 1Mhz and a VIC-I... sheez.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1159

FromDuncan Snowden <duncan_s@talktalk.net>
Date2012-05-28 16:32 +0100
Message-ID<20120528163238.4666b09c@talktalk.net>
In reply to#1135
On Sun, 27 May 2012 10:50:55 +0800
"Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> wrote:

> As if a Spectrum could emulate a 6502 at 1Mhz and a VIC-I... sheez.

Well, it does say it needs a 50MHz Spectrum. Not too many of those
about, to be fair.

-- 
Duncan Snowden.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1162

From"Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com>
Date2012-05-29 12:11 +0800
Message-ID<4fc44c72$0$1555$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to#1159
Duncan Snowden wrote:
> On Sun, 27 May 2012 10:50:55 +0800
> "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> wrote:
>
>> As if a Spectrum could emulate a 6502 at 1Mhz and a VIC-I... sheez.
>
> Well, it does say it needs a 50MHz Spectrum. Not too many of those
> about, to be fair.

I wonder how well the ZX emulator for the C64 does with a SuperCPU...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1196

FromDuncan Snowden <duncan_s@talktalk.net>
Date2012-05-31 17:34 +0100
Message-ID<20120531173447.7d60a318@talktalk.net>
In reply to#1162
On Tue, 29 May 2012 12:11:36 +0800
"Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> wrote:

> Duncan Snowden wrote:
> > On Sun, 27 May 2012 10:50:55 +0800
> > "Clocky" <notgonn@happen.com> wrote:
> >
> >> As if a Spectrum could emulate a 6502 at 1Mhz and a VIC-I... sheez.
> >
> > Well, it does say it needs a 50MHz Spectrum. Not too many of those
> > about, to be fair.
> 
> I wonder how well the ZX emulator for the C64 does with a SuperCPU...

AFAIK, it's only a BASIC interpreter with the C64's high-res mode
standing in as a reasonable facsimile of the Speccy's display, rather
than being a full emulator as most people would understand the term.
The closest thing to "emulation" is the reproduction of the Spectrum's
single-key entry BASIC editor. So it runs more or less full-speed on a
stock '64 (and is pretty impressive: fooled me the first time I saw it,
for what that's worth), but throwing more grunt at it won't improve
anything.

Unless things have moved on when I wasn't looking (which is entirely
possible). The fact that high-res mode and the Spectrum's display are
so similar means, I suspect, that a real emulator would definitely be
possible on a souped-up Commodore (although you'd still have to handle
the Spectrum's weird first-line/ninth-line/second-line... bitmap
layout, which I don't think it shares).

The more I look at the documentation of TwentyCommodes, the more flaws
I see. It's pretty limited in its VIC-I emulation too. But it is a
genuine emulator.

-- 
Duncan Snowden.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#876

FromGroepaz <groepaz@gmx.net>
Date2012-04-23 14:27 +0200
Message-ID<4f954aaf$0$7615$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
In reply to#847
Chris Young wrote:

> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a377768/zx-spectrum-vs-
commodore-64-gamings-greatest-rivalry.html

even spectrum was more fun in 1985

-- 

http://www.hitmen-console.org    http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org        http://ftp.pokefinder.org

A critic is a man who knows the way but can't drive the car. 
<Kenneth Tynan>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#929

From"Pedro" <pcm2000@teleline.es>
Date2012-04-26 01:03 +0200
Message-ID<jn9vr1$fn4$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#847

"Chris Young"  wrote in message 
news:4F943B27.MD-1.4.17.chris.young@unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk...

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a377768/zx-spectrum-vs-commodore-64-gamings-greatest-rivalry.html

Discuss.

Chris

Choose a computer for its mind not its body!!
Then the discussion will turn to Z80 vs 6502 which has an obvious outcome.
This is my personal opinion and like many others.

regards,
Pedro 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1021

Fromrogerjowett <rogerjowett@gmail.com>
Date2012-05-18 05:21 -0700
Message-ID<27a4723c-a181-4659-b3b5-094e65a7fd61@w13g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>
In reply to#847
On Apr 22, 5:08 pm, "Chris Young" <chris.use...@mail-filter.com>
wrote:
> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/news/a377768/zx-spectrum-vs-commod...
>
> Discuss.
>
> Chris
>
> --
> +-------------------------------------------+
> | Unsatisfactory Software - "because it is" |
> |  http://www.unsatisfactorysoftware.co.uk |
> | Your Sinclair: A Celebration              |
> +-http://www.yoursinclair.co.uk-----------+
>
> DISCLAIMER: I may be making all this stuff up again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc4Xoz75yHI

please help persuade lcd to add hmpr bit 5&6 support for mode 3
interlaced sam coupe animations

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]


Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]

Back to top | Article view | comp.sys.sinclair


csiph-web