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Fedora setup

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  Fedora setup Frank Winkler <usenet@f.winkler-ka.de> - 2021-01-09 10:18 +0100
    Re: Fedora setup The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-09 09:28 +0000
      Re: Fedora setup Frank Winkler <usenet@f.winkler-ka.de> - 2021-01-09 11:10 +0100
        Re: Fedora setup The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-09 10:17 +0000
          Re: Fedora setup Frank Winkler <usenet@f.winkler-ka.de> - 2021-01-09 11:58 +0100
            Re: Fedora setup The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-09 12:09 +0000
            Re: Fedora setup Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-09 14:28 +0000
              Re: Fedora setup The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-09 15:05 +0000
                Re: Fedora setup Frank Winkler <usenet@f.winkler-ka.de> - 2021-01-10 13:52 +0100
                  Re: Fedora setup The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-10 14:08 +0000
                    Re: Fedora setup alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2021-01-10 16:41 +0000
                    Re: Fedora setup Frank Winkler <usenet@f.winkler-ka.de> - 2021-01-10 18:24 +0100
                      Re: Fedora setup Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-01-10 17:53 +0000
                      Re: Fedora setup The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-11 03:46 +0000
                    Re: Fedora setup Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-01-10 20:32 +0000
                  Re: Fedora setup Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-10 13:32 -0500
                    Re: Fedora setup Frank Winkler <usenet@f.winkler-ka.de> - 2021-01-10 20:01 +0100
                      Re: Fedora setup Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-10 19:31 +0000
                      Re: Fedora setup The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-11 03:55 +0000
                    Re: Fedora setup The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-11 03:48 +0000
    Re: Fedora setup Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-09 17:21 -0500
      Re: Fedora setup Frank Winkler <usenet@f.winkler-ka.de> - 2021-01-10 13:53 +0100

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#25640 — Fedora setup

Hi there !

I'd like to install Fedora server on one of my RPi 3B+. From my 
understanding, Fedora doesn't provide a pre-configured image like 
Raspbian does so that either a monitor or a serial console is required 
for the initial setup. Is that right?

If yes, it should be possible to fix some config files on the SD card 
but I'm not really sure about what is needed to fake an entire setup. Is 
there a tool to do the setup on the installed image so that I can ssh 
into a configured system?

TIA

	fw

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#25642

On 09/01/2021 09:18, Frank Winkler wrote:
> Hi there !
> 
> I'd like to install Fedora server on one of my RPi 3B+. From my 
> understanding, Fedora doesn't provide a pre-configured image like 
> Raspbian does so that either a monitor or a serial console is required 
> for the initial setup. Is that right?
> 
> If yes, it should be possible to fix some config files on the SD card 
> but I'm not really sure about what is needed to fake an entire setup. Is 
> there a tool to do the setup on the installed image so that I can ssh 
> into a configured system?

you can edit all the files on the card before putting it in the pi.

You probably want at a minimum to set up static networking and if it 
will use  wifi, ensuring that is configured, and making sure sshd is 
enabled.

Once you have it up on a fixed network address and with sshd ruuning you 
can access it that way.


-- 
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all 
private property.

Karl Marx

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#25647

On 09.01.21 10:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

  >you can edit all the files on the card before putting it in the pi.
  >
  >You probably want at a minimum to set up static networking and if it
  >will use  wifi, ensuring that is configured, and making sure sshd is
  >enabled.

That's clear to me but I'm wondering if fixing the network setup is 
sufficient to make the Pi believe it's configured so that it's booting 
and not asking questions on the console which does not exist. Wi-Fi is 
not needed.

And what do I have to edit in order to simulate "systemctl enable ssh"? 
I'm not talking about host keys and so on but about the service.

TIA

	fw

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#25649

On 09/01/2021 10:10, Frank Winkler wrote:
> On 09.01.21 10:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>   >you can edit all the files on the card before putting it in the pi.
>   >
>   >You probably want at a minimum to set up static networking and if it
>   >will use  wifi, ensuring that is configured, and making sure sshd is
>   >enabled.
> 
> That's clear to me but I'm wondering if fixing the network setup is 
> sufficient to make the Pi believe it's configured so that it's booting 
> and not asking questions on the console which does not exist. Wi-Fi is 
> not needed.
> 
Don't think a pi or linux in general  ever does ask questions on the 
console before booting. Only potentially the boot loader, and that on a 
Pi doesn't as far as I know.

I cant answer for fedora though. I used raspbian server as its better 
documented., Cant see the point of fedora, The Pi Zero W server after 
editing the card off the pi in a reader came up on the right IP adress, 
found the network and connected, and set up sshd. First time!



> And what do I have to edit in order to simulate "systemctl enable ssh"? 
> I'm not talking about host keys and so on but about the service.

I think that on raspbian at least an empty file called ssh in /boot 
directory is enough. (that's the DOS FAT partition )

The guys thought of this when they ported linux to the Pi!


-- 
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early 
twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a 
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and, 
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer 
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to 
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

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#25652

On 09.01.21 11:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

  >Don't think a pi or linux in general  ever does ask questions on the
  >console before booting. Only potentially the boot loader, and that on a
  >Pi doesn't as far as I know.

With "questions", I mean all the stuff that is asked during the first 
boot to do the initial setup. Doesn't the Pi do this when a screen or a 
serial console is connected?

I'm very familiar with Solaris, roughly with Linux but not really with 
the Pi.

  >I cant answer for fedora though. I used raspbian server as its better
  >documented., Cant see the point of fedora, The Pi Zero W server after
  >editing the card off the pi in a reader came up on the right IP adress,
  >found the network and connected, and set up sshd. First time!

I installed Raspbian lite (I don't need the desktop stuff) on the card 
for a second Pi, touched the ssh file and was set. Easy. But my few 
Linux knowledge is rather RH flavored than Debian so I'd prefer Fedora 
on this Pi.

  >I think that on raspbian at least an empty file called ssh in /boot
  >directory is enough. (that's the DOS FAT partition )
  >
  >The guys thought of this when they ported linux to the Pi!

Yes, I know how it works on Raspbian. But I'm not sure if Fedora does it 
in the same way. It would be nice if it did ;) ...

TIA

	fw

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#25654

On 09/01/2021 10:58, Frank Winkler wrote:
> On 09.01.21 11:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>   >Don't think a pi or linux in general  ever does ask questions on the
>   >console before booting. Only potentially the boot loader, and that on a
>   >Pi doesn't as far as I know.
> 
> With "questions", I mean all the stuff that is asked during the first 
> boot to do the initial setup. Doesn't the Pi do this when a screen or a 
> serial console is connected?
> 
No idea. I never attached a screen or keyboard to mine, ever. Just 
edited the card on my PC via a card reared plugged it in & then it worked


> I'm very familiar with Solaris, roughly with Linux but not really with 
> the Pi.
> 
>   >I cant answer for fedora though. I used raspbian server as its better
>   >documented., Cant see the point of fedora, The Pi Zero W server after
>   >editing the card off the pi in a reader came up on the right IP adress,
>   >found the network and connected, and set up sshd. First time!
> 
> I installed Raspbian lite (I don't need the desktop stuff) on the card 
> for a second Pi, touched the ssh file and was set. Easy. But my few 
> Linux knowledge is rather RH flavored than Debian so I'd prefer Fedora 
> on this Pi.
> 
>   >I think that on raspbian at least an empty file called ssh in /boot
>   >directory is enough. (that's the DOS FAT partition )
>   >
>   >The guys thought of this when they ported linux to the Pi!
> 
> Yes, I know how it works on Raspbian. But I'm not sure if Fedora does it 
> in the same way. It would be nice if it did ;) ...
> 
I think they would have done that. It makes sense

> TIA
> 
>      fw


-- 
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

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#25659

On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 11:58:04 +0100, Frank Winkler wrote:

> Yes, I know how it works on Raspbian. But I'm not sure if Fedora does it
> in the same way. It would be nice if it did ;) ...
>
I run Fedora on but other boxen but not on my RPi. 

The only questions when Fedora boots on my other machines come from the 
bootloader, but there can be an additional prompt - if you've encrypted a 
partition you'll get asked for the partition's password during the boot 
process.


-- 
--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org

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#25664

On 09/01/2021 14:28, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 11:58:04 +0100, Frank Winkler wrote:
> 
>> Yes, I know how it works on Raspbian. But I'm not sure if Fedora does it
>> in the same way. It would be nice if it did ;) ...
>>
> I run Fedora on but other boxen but not on my RPi.
> 
> The only questions when Fedora boots on my other machines come from the
> bootloader, but there can be an additional prompt - if you've encrypted a
> partition you'll get asked for the partition's password during the boot
> process.
> 
> 
And with a pi the bootloader is completely different. It sure ain't Grub!

I will bet a pint on fedora not asking questions during a pi boot. The 
more pertinent issue is how it decides on the inital boot state.
Oh

Stupid Fedora

"🔗 Booting Fedora on the Raspberry Pi for the first time

     Insert the SD card into the Raspberry Pi.
     *Make sure you have a keyboard, mouse, network cable and monitor 
connected*.
     Power on the Raspberry Pi.
     You will see Fedora booting and eventually the "Initial setup 
wizard" will appear.
     Follow the wizard to set language, timezone and create users.
     You should be presented with a login prompt or a getting started 
guide (depending on which Desktop/SPIN you're using).
"

So you will need to patch the SD card somehow, or connect that stuff up.


No. At this point you would be advised to junk fedora and use Raspian if 
you want a headless server. Even the fedora server seems to need screen 
and keyboard


-- 
“Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of 
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"

    -  John K Galbraith

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#25689

On 09.01.21 16:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

  >"🔗 Booting Fedora on the Raspberry Pi for the first time
  >
  >     Insert the SD card into the Raspberry Pi.
  >     *Make sure you have a keyboard, mouse, network cable and monitor
  >     connected*.
  >     Power on the Raspberry Pi.
  >     You will see Fedora booting and eventually the "Initial setup
  >     wizard" will appear.
  >     Follow the wizard to set language, timezone and create users.
  >     You should be presented with a login prompt or a getting started
  >     guide (depending on which Desktop/SPIN you're using).

That's what I also found and why I was asking here ;) ...

  >So you will need to patch the SD card somehow, or connect that stuff up.

Of course, but I'm not sure enough what I'll need to get it running ...

  >No. At this point you would be advised to junk fedora and use Raspian if
  >you want a headless server. Even the fedora server seems to need screen
  >and keyboard

If this is really the case, Fedora is out! The term "server" implies 
headless ;) ...

I don't like Debian style so I'm looking for a RH flavored OS for the Pi 
and that's why I mentioned Fedora as I've been using it on an other 
machine and liked it ...

TIA

	fw

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#25697

On 10/01/2021 12:52, Frank Winkler wrote:
> On 09.01.21 16:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>   >"🔗 Booting Fedora on the Raspberry Pi for the first time
>   >
>   >     Insert the SD card into the Raspberry Pi.
>   >     *Make sure you have a keyboard, mouse, network cable and monitor
>   >     connected*.
>   >     Power on the Raspberry Pi.
>   >     You will see Fedora booting and eventually the "Initial setup
>   >     wizard" will appear.
>   >     Follow the wizard to set language, timezone and create users.
>   >     You should be presented with a login prompt or a getting started
>   >     guide (depending on which Desktop/SPIN you're using).
> 
> That's what I also found and why I was asking here ;) ...
> 
>   >So you will need to patch the SD card somehow, or connect that stuff up.
> 
> Of course, but I'm not sure enough what I'll need to get it running ...
> 
>   >No. At this point you would be advised to junk fedora and use Raspian if
>   >you want a headless server. Even the fedora server seems to need screen
>   >and keyboard
> 
> If this is really the case, Fedora is out! The term "server" implies 
> headless ;) ...

Not if you are Microsost! A screen with Windows for every server!

The point is that fedora have not made it possible or at least easy to 
do a *first time* headless boot, Raspbian have.

Once set up you dont need screen or keyboard on either



> 
> I don't like Debian style so I'm looking for a RH flavored OS for the Pi 
> and that's why I mentioned Fedora as I've been using it on an other 
> machine and liked it ...
> 
Really I cant see there is any difference beyond the package management 
system. I used Red Hat back in the noughties, then switched pretty 
seamlessly to debian than to mint and Ubuntu and Raspian.

Especially when using it headless without a GUI.

But its your choice as to *which* long road you take, getting to like 
Debian or installing a monitor and kb on your first fedora server boot...

I have merely informed you that the short cut does not exist...as far as 
my web search has taken me.

-- 
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich 
people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason 
they are poor.

Peter Thompson

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#25709

On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:08:48 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 10/01/2021 12:52, Frank Winkler wrote:
>> On 09.01.21 16:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Really I cant see there is any difference beyond the package management
> system. I used Red Hat back in the noughties, then switched pretty
> seamlessly to debian than to mint and Ubuntu and Raspian.
> 
> Especially when using it headless without a GUI.
> 
> But its your choice as to *which* long road you take, getting to like
> Debian or installing a monitor and kb on your first fedora server
> boot...
> 
> I have merely informed you that the short cut does not exist...as far as
> my web search has taken me.

I use both
Fedora on my laptop
rasipian on my raspberry Pi's
& cent os on equipment I maintain

the only significant difference is the package management systems & I 
usually create a .bash_aliases file so I can use the same commands 
regardless of the system upgrade, install, add & remove are the only 
package management commands I need normally anyway.

EG 

Raspian

alias upgrade="sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade

Fedora

alias upgrade="sudo dnf upgrade"

simple




-- 
Let us treat men and women well;
Treat them as if they were real;
Perhaps they are.
		-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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#25712

On 10.01.21 15:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

  >Not if you are Microsost! A screen with Windows for every server!
Micro-what? Never heard of anything like that and never had a amchine 
with such a trash! :)

  >The point is that fedora have not made it possible or at least easy to
  >do a *first time* headless boot, Raspbian have.

Obviously. RIP, Fedora - at least for my Pis.
Is there a CentOS port for RPi? Or ... something apart from Linux? Maybe 
of the *BSDs?
Looks like I'll have to search again ...

  >Really I cant see there is any difference beyond the package management
  >system. I used Red Hat back in the noughties, then switched pretty
  >seamlessly to debian than to mint and Ubuntu and Raspian.

It's not only the package stuff. Most of the config files are different, 
none of my scripts will work, etc.

  >But its your choice as to *which* long road you take, getting to like
  >Debian or installing a monitor and kb on your first fedora server boot...

I don't like any of them.

TIA

	fw

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#25713

Frank Winkler wrote:

> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> fedora have not made it possible or at least easy to
>> do a *first time* headless boot
> 
> Obviously. RIP, Fedora - at least for my Pis.

With the SD card in a PC

edit the config.txt to enable the UART

edit`the extlinux.conf to set ttyS1 as the console

boot the Pi

login over serial and configure wifi or wired networking and then switch 
to that.

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#25729

On 10/01/2021 17:24, Frank Winkler wrote:
> On 10.01.21 15:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
.
> 
>   >But its your choice as to *which* long road you take, getting to like
>   >Debian or installing a monitor and kb on your first fedora server 
> boot...
> 
> I don't like any of them.

Life is rough, tough, and *desperately* unjust, so you had better start 
getting used to it.



-- 
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to 
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

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#25720

On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:08:48 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 10/01/2021 12:52, Frank Winkler wrote:
>  
> > 
> > If this is really the case, Fedora is out! The term "server"
> > implies headless ;) ...  
> 
> Not if you are Microsost! A screen with Windows for every server!
> 
Though again, it's normally possible to disconnect keyboard and monitor
(and mouse) once the thing is running. Though better just to leave
them, for when you need to investigate why a reboot is taking so long...

But they do insist that their server OSes use a GUI.

-- 
Joe

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#25717

On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 13:52:37 +0100, Frank Winkler <usenet@f.winkler-ka.de>
declaimed the following:


>If this is really the case, Fedora is out! The term "server" implies 
>headless ;) ...
>
	It likely is... ONCE CONFIGURED INITIALLY. Subsequent access could be
done via SSH.

	All the <deleted> stuff is for /first boot/ of a clean installation.

	No difference really from installing a direct Debian download on most
systems


-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
	wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

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#25718

On 10.01.21 19:32, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

  >No difference really from installing a direct Debian download on most
  >systems

I like this Raspbian approach with a generic pre-configuration and I'd 
appreciate to see this on other Pi systems, too. They could integrate an 
option for the ssh flag file into the Raspberry imager.

Or maybe I'll take some time and play with a scripted setup of the SD 
card. Something like a poor man's Solaris JumpStart ;) ...

TIA

	fw

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#25719

On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 20:01:15 +0100, Frank Winkler wrote:

> On 10.01.21 19:32, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> 
>   >No difference really from installing a direct Debian download on most
>   >systems
> 
> I like this Raspbian approach with a generic pre-configuration and I'd
> appreciate to see this on other Pi systems, too. They could integrate an
> option for the ssh flag file into the Raspberry imager.
>
I thought that a long while ago Raspbian downloads had been modified to 
boot up with sshd running by default but according to this: 

http://www.penguintutor.com/linux/raspberrypi-headless

that tweak was later removed because security: this is probably current 
information since that page was last updated this year (2021).

It explains how to re-enable starting sshd at boot time (very simple: 
just create one empty file in the boot partition: since thats a FAT32 
partition it can be done using a PC running either Linux or Windows.
  
However, the above probably doesn't help with the first Fedora boot.

So, to the OP: just grit your teeth, borrow a USB keyboard and an HDMI 
screen, plug 'em in and do that first Fedora boot and make sure you 
enable sshd, shut down, give the keyboard and screen back and reboot the 
Pi. You should now be able to login as user 'pi' via SSH from another 
Linux box or from a Windows one running PuTTY.



-- 
--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org

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#25731

On 10/01/2021 19:01, Frank Winkler wrote:
> On 10.01.21 19:32, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> 
>   >No difference really from installing a direct Debian download on most
>   >systems
> 
> I like this Raspbian approach with a generic pre-configuration and I'd 
> appreciate to see this on other Pi systems, too. They could integrate an 
> option for the ssh flag file into the Raspberry imager.
> 
Nothing stops you from  taking the card out of a running PI and dding it 
to a file...and then  cloning it endlessly.


> Or maybe I'll take some time and play with a scripted setup of the SD 
> card. Something like a poor man's Solaris JumpStart ;) ...
> 
comes to nearly the same thing. Since Raspian has a preconfigured user, 
all you need for an Ethernet Pi is IP address setup and ssh enabled.

If its wifi, then you need SSID and passkey as well.

Once you have ssh access setting up a better user, negotiating proper 
ssh keys, making sure date, time and locale are all configured  - is not 
hard

You could probably hack a fedora image to do that as well. Almost 
certainly, the 'first time boot setup' is some sort of script that could 
be disabled

And having done that and booted it once, you could clone the setup for 
next time...




> TIA
> 
>      fw


-- 
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to 
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

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#25730

On 10/01/2021 18:32, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> All the <deleted> stuff is for/first boot/  of a clean installation.
> 
> 	No difference really from installing a direct Debian download on most
> systems
VERY different from Raspian
There you can set all that up by editing the card before first boot.


-- 
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to 
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

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