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Groups > comp.sys.raspberry-pi > #25425 > unrolled thread

AI and decompilation?

Started bygareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com>
First post2021-01-04 11:00 +0000
Last post2021-02-12 15:40 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 157 — 28 participants

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Contents

  AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 11:00 +0000
    Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-04 11:42 +0000
    Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-04 13:08 +0000
      Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 17:51 +0000
        Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-04 21:57 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 22:23 +0000
            Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-04 23:09 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 17:50 -0500
            Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-04 23:00 +0000
              Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 16:59 -0700
              Re: AI and decompilation? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 20:42 -0500
                Re: AI and decompilation? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 20:59 -0500
              Re: AI and decompilation? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 20:55 -0500
                Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-05 10:38 +0000
                  Re: AI and decompilation? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2021-01-05 12:46 +0000
                    Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-05 13:43 +0000
                      Re: AI and decompilation? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2021-01-05 14:23 +0000
                    Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 15:22 +0000
                  Re: AI and decompilation? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:05 -0500
              Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 10:51 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-05 11:52 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 12:06 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:12 +0000
            Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 11:45 +0000
              Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 14:25 -0700
          Re: AI and decompilation? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 20:38 -0500
            Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 11:54 +0000
            Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 14:06 -0700
              Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 22:52 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 10:29 +0000
    Re: AI and decompilation? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-04 11:05 -0500
      Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-04 17:07 +0000
        Re: AI and decompilation? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 17:52 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 10:28 +0000
            Re: AI and decompilation? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-05 13:06 +0000
              Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 13:41 +0000
              Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 15:30 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-05 16:42 +0000
                  Re: AI and decompilation? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:12 +0000
                    Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 20:20 +0000
                      Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-05 22:23 +0000
                        Re: AI and decompilation? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-06 00:14 +0000
                          Re: AI and decompilation? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-01-06 02:17 +0000
                            Re: AI and decompilation? Björn Lundin <b.f.lundin@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 14:39 +0100
                              Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-08 15:07 +0000
                                Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-08 15:56 +0000
                                Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-08 15:35 +0000
                              Re: AI and decompilation? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-01-08 20:02 +0000
                                Re: AI and decompilation? Björn Lundin <b.f.lundin@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 15:12 +0100
                        Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-06 09:36 +0000
                          Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-06 10:43 +0000
                            Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-06 18:09 +0000
                              Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-06 18:29 +0000
                                Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-06 18:37 +0000
                                  Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-06 21:03 +0000
                                  Re: AI and decompilation? Björn Lundin <b.f.lundin@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 14:45 +0100
                                    Re: AI and decompilation? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-08 18:06 +0000
                                      Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-08 18:44 +0000
                                        Re: AI and decompilation? A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2021-01-09 03:02 +0000
                                      Re: AI and decompilation? A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2021-01-09 02:58 +0000
                              Re: AI and decompilation? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-01-06 18:35 +0000
                                Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-06 18:39 +0000
                                  Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-06 19:03 +0000
                                    Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-06 19:08 +0000
                                      Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-06 19:19 +0000
                                        Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-07 04:07 +0000
                                          Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-07 12:59 +0000
                                          Re: AI and decompilation? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-08 21:41 -0500
                                          Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-09 12:25 +0000
                                            Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-09 12:46 +0000
                                              Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-09 15:49 +0000
                                                Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-09 18:33 +0000
                                                  Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-09 19:20 +0000
                                                    Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 21:05 +0000
                                                      Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-09 23:19 +0000
                                                        Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-10 12:17 +0000
                                                    Re: AI and decompilation? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-09 16:54 -0500
                                                      Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-09 23:48 +0000
                                                        Re: AI and decompilation? A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2021-01-10 02:00 +0000
                                                Re: AI and decompilation? druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2021-01-09 18:36 +0000
                                                  Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-09 19:28 +0000
                                                    Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-10 12:15 +0000
                                                      Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 12:33 +0000
                                                        Re: AI and decompilation? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-01-10 13:18 +0000
                                                          Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-10 14:01 +0000
                                                          Re: AI and decompilation? TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2021-01-10 15:14 +0000
                                                        Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-10 13:59 +0000
                                                          Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 14:46 +0000
                                                            Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-10 15:34 +0000
                                                          Re: AI and decompilation? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-01-10 15:05 +0000
                                                            Re: AI and decompilation? Axel Berger <Spam@Berger-Odenthal.De> - 2021-01-10 17:28 +0100
                                                              Re: AI and decompilation? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-01-11 17:25 +0000
                                                        Re: AI and decompilation? TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2021-01-10 15:13 +0000
                                                          Re: AI and decompilation? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-01-10 15:35 +0000
                                                          Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 15:35 +0000
                                                            Re: AI and decompilation? TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2021-01-10 17:23 +0000
                                                              Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 18:17 +0000
                                                              Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-11 03:44 +0000
                                                                Re: AI and decompilation? TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2021-01-11 11:00 +0000
                                                            Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-11 03:36 +0000
                                  Re: AI and decompilation? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-01-06 21:34 +0000
                              Re: AI and decompilation? druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2021-01-06 18:37 +0000
                      Re: AI and decompilation? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-08 21:09 -0500
                    Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-06 09:32 +0000
                      Re: AI and decompilation? Björn Lundin <b.f.lundin@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 14:56 +0100
              Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 14:25 -0700
              Re: AI and decompilation? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2021-01-06 14:17 +0200
                Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 12:42 +0000
                  Re: AI and decompilation? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2021-01-06 16:42 +0200
                  Re: AI and decompilation? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-08 09:48 +0000
                    Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-08 10:27 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:40 +0000
            Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 14:06 -0700
              Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-05 22:27 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-06 00:14 +0000
                  Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-06 08:25 +0000
                    Re: AI and decompilation? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-08 21:52 -0500
                      Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-09 15:37 +0000
                      Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-10 06:40 -0700
                Re: AI and decompilation? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-06 15:15 +0000
                  Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-06 16:09 +0000
                    Re: AI and decompilation? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-06 17:07 +0000
                      Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-06 17:38 +0000
            Re: AI and decompilation? druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2021-01-05 21:20 +0000
      Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 17:47 +0000
      Re: AI and decompilation? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 14:18 -0500
        Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 16:54 -0700
      Re: AI and decompilation? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2021-01-04 23:01 +0000
    Re: AI and decompilation? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-01-04 20:11 +0000
    Re: AI and decompilation? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 09:07 +0000
      Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-05 09:47 +0000
        Re: AI and decompilation? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 11:13 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 12:12 +0000
            Re: AI and decompilation? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 13:39 +0000
              Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 15:32 +0000
                Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 15:40 +0000
            Re: AI and decompilation? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-05 16:02 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-05 18:27 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 21:15 +0000
            Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 22:54 +0000
      Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 11:56 +0000
        Re: AI and decompilation? A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2021-01-05 14:11 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2021-01-05 14:22 +0000
          Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 15:35 +0000
            Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-05 18:47 +0000
              Re: AI and decompilation? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:15 +0000
      Re: AI and decompilation? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 07:32 -0500
      Re: AI and decompilation? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-05 16:00 +0000
    Re: AI and decompilation? Adrian Caspersz <email@here.invalid> - 2021-01-05 11:26 +0000
      Re: AI and decompilation? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-05 13:07 +0000
        Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 13:42 +0000
        Re: AI and decompilation? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-01-05 18:31 +0000
    Re: AI and decompilation? "K. Krause" <klemens.krause@gmx.net> - 2021-01-05 16:01 +0100
    Re: AI and decompilation? druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2021-01-05 20:51 +0000
      Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 22:51 +0000
        Re: AI and decompilation? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-08 22:23 -0500
    Re: AI and decompilation? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-02-12 15:40 +0000

Page 3 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8  Next page →


#25507

FromMartin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid>
Date2021-01-05 22:23 +0000
Message-ID<rt2ot3$r81$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#25499
On Tue, 05 Jan 2021 20:20:27 +0000, gareth evans wrote:

> On 05/01/2021 20:12, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2021-01-05, Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 05 Jan 2021 15:30:06 +0000, gareth evans wrote:
>>>
>>>> That it warrants such an involved explanation is very good reason why
>>>> such techniques should be avoided today!  :-)
>>>
>>> Agreed.
>>>
>>> That sort of thing is so much easier in Java or Algol 68, which both
>>> recognise that methods/procedures with the same name but different
>>> parameter lists are indeed different pieces of code rather than a
>>> stupid mistake.
>>
>> I avoid that technique - it invites other stupid mistakes.
>>
>>
> +1
> 
> Why any coder would want a procname with different calling lists is
> beyond me.
> 
> To object to having x_procname and y_procname etc suggests a coder is
> not focussed on the matter in hand but is religiously adhering to some
> irrelevant convention.

Its very useful indeed in Java: its often helpful to use the same name 
with different parameter lists for constructors and also for methods that 
all do similar jobs, e.g for outputting values from a class its helpful 
to use the same method name,  with different parameter lists say: 

getValue(String caption, int value);
getValue(String caption, double value);
getValue(String caption, boolean value);

where inventing a set of different method names adds little clarity to 
the code and about the only likely mistake is to try to use it with an 
unsupported type of value - which will cause a compilation error as you 
might expect.

Similarly, the ability to something similar in Algol 68, is equally 
convenient ana, IME anyway, doesn't make the code any more error prone or 
less readable. 

In both languages, context selects the appropriate method or proc and 
using an undefined variation gets you a compilation error, despite Algol 
68's tendency to widen numeric values to fit a parameter definition.


-- 
--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org

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#25515

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2021-01-06 00:14 +0000
Message-ID<rt2vd82214r@news3.newsguy.com>
In reply to#25507
On 2021-01-05, Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:

> On Tue, 05 Jan 2021 20:20:27 +0000, gareth evans wrote:
>
>> On 05/01/2021 20:12, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> On 2021-01-05, Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 05 Jan 2021 15:30:06 +0000, gareth evans wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That it warrants such an involved explanation is very good reason why
>>>>> such techniques should be avoided today!  :-)
>>>>
>>>> Agreed.
>>>>
>>>> That sort of thing is so much easier in Java or Algol 68, which both
>>>> recognise that methods/procedures with the same name but different
>>>> parameter lists are indeed different pieces of code rather than a
>>>> stupid mistake.
>>>
>>> I avoid that technique - it invites other stupid mistakes.
>>
>> +1
>> 
>> Why any coder would want a procname with different calling lists is
>> beyond me.
>> 
>> To object to having x_procname and y_procname etc suggests a coder is
>> not focussed on the matter in hand but is religiously adhering to some
>> irrelevant convention.
>
> Its very useful indeed in Java: its often helpful to use the same name 
> with different parameter lists for constructors and also for methods that 
> all do similar jobs, e.g for outputting values from a class its helpful 
> to use the same method name,  with different parameter lists say: 
>
> getValue(String caption, int value);
> getValue(String caption, double value);
> getValue(String caption, boolean value);

I find it easier to just cast "value" to a consistent type.
But then, I'm a hidebound C weenie...

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  "Some of you may die,
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  but it's a sacrifice
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  I'm willing to make."
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)

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#25517

FromEli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com>
Date2021-01-06 02:17 +0000
Message-ID<eli$2101052117@qaz.wtf>
In reply to#25515
In comp.sys.raspberry-pi, Charlie Gibbs  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2021-01-05, Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
>> Its very useful indeed in Java: its often helpful to use the same name 
>> with different parameter lists for constructors and also for methods that 
>> all do similar jobs, e.g for outputting values from a class its helpful 
>> to use the same method name,  with different parameter lists say: 
>>
>> getValue(String caption, int value);
>> getValue(String caption, double value);
>> getValue(String caption, boolean value);

Java gets that from C++ doesn't it?

> I find it easier to just cast "value" to a consistent type.
> But then, I'm a hidebound C weenie...

Use a union type with an enum for which value in the value is
the proper one. That can easily expand to new types that are not
easily cast.

enum caption_types {
	CAPTION_UNDEF = 0,
	CAPTION_INT,
	CAPTION_FLOAT,
	CAPTION_RETURN
};

struct int_value_t;
struct float_value_t;
struct return_value_t;

typedef struct {
  enum caption_types here;
  int  value;
} int_value_t;

typedef struct {
  enum  caption_types here;
  float value;
} float_value_t;

/* try casting this one to something meaningful... */
typedef struct {
  enum caption_types here;
  int  (*value)();
} return_value_t;

typedef struct {
  enum caption_types here;
} id_value_t;


typedef union {
  id_value_t     id_value;
  int_value_t    int_value;
  float_value_t  float_value;
  return_value_t return_value;
} compare_value_t;

typedef char String;	/* unused here */

int
getCaption(String caption, compare_value_t value)
{
  int rv = -1;
  if (CAPTION_INT == value.id_value.here) {
     rv = value.int_value.value;
  }
  if (CAPTION_FLOAT == value.id_value.here) {
     rv = value.float_value.value;
  }
  if (CAPTION_RETURN == value.id_value.here) {
     /* use the return value of the function provided */
     rv = (value.return_value.value)();
  }

  return rv;
}

Elijah
------
should have used a swtich statement

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#25606

FromBjörn Lundin <b.f.lundin@gmail.com>
Date2021-01-08 14:39 +0100
Message-ID<rt9nb9$vch$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#25517
Den 2021-01-06 kl. 03:17, skrev Eli the Bearded:
> In comp.sys.raspberry-pi, Charlie Gibbs  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2021-01-05, Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
>>> Its very useful indeed in Java: its often helpful to use the same name
>>> with different parameter lists for constructors and also for methods that
>>> all do similar jobs, e.g for outputting values from a class its helpful
>>> to use the same method name,  with different parameter lists say:
>>>
>>> getValue(String caption, int value);
>>> getValue(String caption, double value);
>>> getValue(String caption, boolean value);
> 
> Java gets that from C++ doesn't it?
> 
>> I find it easier to just cast "value" to a consistent type.
>> But then, I'm a hidebound C weenie...
> 
> Use a union type with an enum for which value in the value is
> the proper one. That can easily expand to new types that are not
> easily cast.
> 

easy ?
<cut long list of c-statements/>


How someone can object to the ease of overloading is just beyond me.


-- 
Björn

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#25609

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2021-01-08 15:07 +0000
Message-ID<rt9sga$dqm$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#25606
On 08/01/2021 13:39, Björn Lundin wrote:
> Den 2021-01-06 kl. 03:17, skrev Eli the Bearded:
>> In comp.sys.raspberry-pi, Charlie Gibbs  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2021-01-05, Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Its very useful indeed in Java: its often helpful to use the same name
>>>> with different parameter lists for constructors and also for methods 
>>>> that
>>>> all do similar jobs, e.g for outputting values from a class its helpful
>>>> to use the same method name,  with different parameter lists say:
>>>>
>>>> getValue(String caption, int value);
>>>> getValue(String caption, double value);
>>>> getValue(String caption, boolean value);
>>
>> Java gets that from C++ doesn't it?
>>
>>> I find it easier to just cast "value" to a consistent type.
>>> But then, I'm a hidebound C weenie...
>>
>> Use a union type with an enum for which value in the value is
>> the proper one. That can easily expand to new types that are not
>> easily cast.
>>
> 
> easy ?
> <cut long list of c-statements/>
> 
> 
> How someone can object to the ease of overloading is just beyond me.
> 
> 
It's very simple. It makes things that behave very differently look 
exactly the same.

which is a recipe for disaster

-- 
“But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an 
hypothesis!”

Mary Wollstonecraft

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#25610

FromMartin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid>
Date2021-01-08 15:56 +0000
Message-ID<rt9vaq$93r$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#25609
On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 15:07:54 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> It's very simple. It makes things that behave very differently look
> exactly the same.
> 
> which is a recipe for disaster

If you use overloading that way, you're an idiot or a coder trying to 
lock in a job for life...

To see overloading being used sensibly, look at the TreeMap constructors,
the String constructors or String.indexOf() methods in the Java Standard 
Edition API Specification
 
There are also some good examples of overloading in "A very Informal 
Introduction to Algol 68", which, by the way, is not only an excellent 
way to learn A68, but is the only serious programming language manual 
that has made me laugh out loud in places.


-- 
--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org

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#25612

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2021-01-08 15:35 +0000
Message-ID<20210108153551.790cc82d7fc2a4d4a222e175@eircom.net>
In reply to#25609
On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 15:07:54 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 08/01/2021 13:39, Björn Lundin wrote:

> > How someone can object to the ease of overloading is just beyond me.
> > 
> > 
> It's very simple. It makes things that behave very differently look 
> exactly the same.

	That can be a good thing, used well it simply puts irrelevant detail
out of sight, used badly it creates as much confusion as #define ONE 2.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#25620

FromEli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com>
Date2021-01-08 20:02 +0000
Message-ID<eli$2101081502@qaz.wtf>
In reply to#25606
In comp.sys.raspberry-pi, Björn Lundin <b.f.lundin@gmail.com> wrote:
> Den 2021-01-06 kl. 03:17, skrev Eli the Bearded:
>> Use a union type with an enum for which value in the value is
>> the proper one. That can easily expand to new types that are not
>> easily cast.
> 
> easy ?
> <cut long list of c-statements/>

It was a complete example with variable and function declarations. A
similar complete example in another language is not likely to be
_much_ more concise, unless you count shortening identifiers.

> How someone can object to the ease of overloading is just beyond me.

Overloading can be a useful thing. I just don't think it is be-all,
end-all for the problem space, and I wanted to provide a second way the
task could be done in C besides Charlie Gibbs's "easier to just cast"
method.

I've been doing some Arduino programming recently, and while I'm writing
C, it's clearly C++ overall because of the libraries I'm using, some of
which are overloading stuff. One of those does things I find awkward
because it tries to invoke the int method at times I don't want. Eg
it wants zero to be the ASCII zero instead of ASCII null unless I write
it as "byte(0)".

Elijah
------
has been tempted to rewrite the library

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#25698

FromBjörn Lundin <b.f.lundin@gmail.com>
Date2021-01-10 15:12 +0100
Message-ID<rtf1vn$ivj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#25620
Den 2021-01-08 kl. 21:02, skrev Eli the Bearded:
> I've been doing some Arduino programming recently, and while I'm writing
> C, it's clearly C++ overall because of the libraries I'm using, some of
> which are overloading stuff. 

And the compiler used is g++.
So yes it is a kind of c++

> One of those does things I find awkward
> because it tries to invoke the int method at times I don't want. Eg
> it wants zero to be the ASCII zero instead of ASCII null unless I write
> it as "byte(0)".

And that is of course since you are not used o a (more) strongly typed 
language. But in the end - it is much better to fight the compiler than 
to work with the debugger. Strongly typed and successful compilation 
usually means correct execution.
But with strongly typed I do not mean c++ and Java - they are strong typed.
Strongly - that is Ada - is where you can have numeric ranges like

type latitude_type is new Float range -90.0 .. 90.0;
type longitude_type is new Float range -180.0 .. 180.0;
type country_type is (dk,uk,se,de,it,bu,sa,...);

and get compile time error for the following

function Where_Am_I(longitude : longitude_type;
                      latitude : latitude_type) return Country_Type;

longitude : longitude_type := 42.0;
latitude  : latitude_type := 25.0;
country   : country_type;

in a not strongly types language

  country := Where_Am_I(latitude, longitude);

would pass - even if arguments are reversed and,  even worse - return 
sa (saudi arabia). which is just plain wrong compared to the declarations.

In a strongly types language - the compiler would say no - you pass in 
the wrong types compared to the definition.

a correct call
  country := Where_Am_I(longitude,latitude);
will return bu (Bulgaria)


The compiler would save you from
* disaster if this was a plane and the code was about the destination 
and length there and how much fuel to put in.
* it protects you against badly written unit tests where swapping 
coordinates would yield the same country
* it makes it NOT to go to production
* It makes it unnecessary to spend hours or days in the debugger.

In short - a very strongly typed language is your best friend when 
programming anything having more than 1_000_000 locs.

without it - it becomes a nightmare to maintain.


-- 
Björn

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#25522

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2021-01-06 09:36 +0000
Message-ID<rt40ab$s1i$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#25507
On 05/01/2021 22:23, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> In both languages, context selects the appropriate method

Until it doesn't.

A day wasted debugging JavaScript to ascertain why IE was totally 
different to Firefox.

There was an implicit cast happening in IE which wasn't in Firefox that 
turned a 1 into  a "1"..

Context dependency just adds another layer of complexity and a source of 
more bugs


-- 
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on 
its shoes.

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#25527

FromMartin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid>
Date2021-01-06 10:43 +0000
Message-ID<rt448u$93k$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#25522
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 09:36:10 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 05/01/2021 22:23, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> In both languages, context selects the appropriate method
> 
> Until it doesn't.
> 
> A day wasted debugging JavaScript to ascertain why IE was totally
> different to Firefox.
> 
> There was an implicit cast happening in IE which wasn't in Firefox that
> turned a 1 into  a "1"..
> 
> Context dependency just adds another layer of complexity and a source of
> more bugs

... well, if you use crappy interpreted languages with untyped variables 
then you've chosen to accept that sort of thing as normal. 

I much prefer strongly typed languages, so the only language I use that 
isn't strongly typed is the bash shell script.



-- 
--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org

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#25557

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2021-01-06 18:09 +0000
Message-ID<rt4ubu$rtd$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#25527
On 06/01/2021 10:43, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 09:36:10 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 05/01/2021 22:23, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>> In both languages, context selects the appropriate method
>>
>> Until it doesn't.
>>
>> A day wasted debugging JavaScript to ascertain why IE was totally
>> different to Firefox.
>>
>> There was an implicit cast happening in IE which wasn't in Firefox that
>> turned a 1 into  a "1"..
>>
>> Context dependency just adds another layer of complexity and a source of
>> more bugs
> 
> ... well, if you use crappy interpreted languages with untyped variables
> then you've chosen to accept that sort of thing as normal.
> 
Sadly javaScript is all you get in a browser

> I much prefer strongly typed languages, so the only language I use that
> isn't strongly typed is the bash shell script.
> 
> 
So do I.

> 


-- 
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
..I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

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#25558

FromMartin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid>
Date2021-01-06 18:29 +0000
Message-ID<rt4vid$quk$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#25557
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 18:09:02 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 06/01/2021 10:43, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 09:36:10 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> 
>>> On 05/01/2021 22:23, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>>> In both languages, context selects the appropriate method
>>>
>>> Until it doesn't.
>>>
>>> A day wasted debugging JavaScript to ascertain why IE was totally
>>> different to Firefox.
>>>
>>> There was an implicit cast happening in IE which wasn't in Firefox
>>> that turned a 1 into  a "1"..
>>>
>>> Context dependency just adds another layer of complexity and a source
>>> of more bugs
>> 
>> ... well, if you use crappy interpreted languages with untyped
>> variables then you've chosen to accept that sort of thing as normal.
>> 
> Sadly javaScript is all you get in a browser
>
Fair comment. So far when I've needed dynamic web pages, which isn't 
often, PHP has done everything I've needed. 


-- 
--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org

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#25561

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2021-01-06 18:37 +0000
Message-ID<rt501t$8qu$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#25558
On 06/01/2021 18:29, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 18:09:02 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 06/01/2021 10:43, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>> On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 09:36:10 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/01/2021 22:23, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>>>> In both languages, context selects the appropriate method
>>>>
>>>> Until it doesn't.
>>>>
>>>> A day wasted debugging JavaScript to ascertain why IE was totally
>>>> different to Firefox.
>>>>
>>>> There was an implicit cast happening in IE which wasn't in Firefox
>>>> that turned a 1 into  a "1"..
>>>>
>>>> Context dependency just adds another layer of complexity and a source
>>>> of more bugs
>>>
>>> ... well, if you use crappy interpreted languages with untyped
>>> variables then you've chosen to accept that sort of thing as normal.
>>>
>> Sadly javaScript is all you get in a browser
>>
> Fair comment. So far when I've needed dynamic web pages, which isn't
> often, PHP has done everything I've needed.
> 
> 
Php is fine server side, but to get speed with a decent interactive page 
you need JavaScript in  the browser, even if its just Ajax.


-- 
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

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#25571

FromMartin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid>
Date2021-01-06 21:03 +0000
Message-ID<rt58jn$quk$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#25561
On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 18:37:49 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 06/01/2021 18:29, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 18:09:02 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> 
>>> On 06/01/2021 10:43, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 06 Jan 2021 09:36:10 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/01/2021 22:23, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>>>>> In both languages, context selects the appropriate method
>>>>>
>>>>> Until it doesn't.
>>>>>
>>>>> A day wasted debugging JavaScript to ascertain why IE was totally
>>>>> different to Firefox.
>>>>>
>>>>> There was an implicit cast happening in IE which wasn't in Firefox
>>>>> that turned a 1 into  a "1"..
>>>>>
>>>>> Context dependency just adds another layer of complexity and a
>>>>> source of more bugs
>>>>
>>>> ... well, if you use crappy interpreted languages with untyped
>>>> variables then you've chosen to accept that sort of thing as normal.
>>>>
>>> Sadly javaScript is all you get in a browser
>>>
>> Fair comment. So far when I've needed dynamic web pages, which isn't
>> often, PHP has done everything I've needed.
>> 
>> 
> Php is fine server side, but to get speed with a decent interactive page
> you need JavaScript in  the browser, even if its just Ajax.

The last time, maybe six months ago, that I needed to use a PHP script 
was to grab data input through a form on the associated web page, 
reformat it into a fixed format e-mail and send that via my MTA to a 
chunk of JAVA that builds requested data files and e-mails them back to 
the requester. This turned out to be fairly simple once I'd thought up a 
reasonably bullet-proof way to sanitise the input sufficiently to keep 
trolls, scammers and other nuisances out without inconveniencing genuine 
users.


-- 
--  
Martin    | martin at
Gregorie  | gregorie dot org

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#25607

FromBjörn Lundin <b.f.lundin@gmail.com>
Date2021-01-08 14:45 +0100
Message-ID<rt9nml$5jv$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#25561
Den 2021-01-06 kl. 19:37, skrev The Natural Philosopher:
>>>
>> Fair comment. So far when I've needed dynamic web pages, which isn't
>> often, PHP has done everything I've needed.
>>
>>
> Php is fine server side, but to get speed with a decent interactive page 
> you need JavaScript in  the browser, even if its just Ajax.
> 

an language that needs
* 'loose comparison' ==
* 'strict comparison'  ===

with accompanying truth tables that are not-so-obvious is just a bad joke.

<https://www.php.net/manual/en/types.comparisons.php>


true ==  0 -> false
true === 0 -> false

true ==  1 -> true
true === 1 -> false



WTF?

-- 
Björn

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#25618

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2021-01-08 18:06 +0000
Message-ID<rta6u80bl8@news2.newsguy.com>
In reply to#25607
On 2021-01-08, Björn Lundin <b.f.lundin@gmail.com> wrote:

> Den 2021-01-06 kl. 19:37, skrev The Natural Philosopher:
>
>>> Fair comment. So far when I've needed dynamic web pages, which isn't
>>> often, PHP has done everything I've needed.
>>
>> Php is fine server side, but to get speed with a decent interactive page 
>> you need JavaScript in  the browser, even if its just Ajax.
>
> an language that needs
> * 'loose comparison' ==
> * 'strict comparison'  ===
>
> with accompanying truth tables that are not-so-obvious is just a bad joke.
>
><https://www.php.net/manual/en/types.comparisons.php>
>
> true ==  0 -> false
> true === 0 -> false
>
> true ==  1 -> true
> true === 1 -> false
>
> WTF?

That sounds like a description of one of those bogus programming
languages that pops up in humour columns from time to time.
One of them proposed an operator meaning "is more equal than"
(shades of Animal Farm).

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  "Some of you may die,
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  but it's a sacrifice
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  I'm willing to make."
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)

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#25619

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2021-01-08 18:44 +0000
Message-ID<20210108184444.13fcef0fb7203453156259ee@eircom.net>
In reply to#25618
On 8 Jan 2021 18:06:00 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> On 2021-01-08, Björn Lundin <b.f.lundin@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > an language that needs
> > * 'loose comparison' ==

	Make that value comparison ...

> > * 'strict comparison'  ===

	... and value and type comparison

> > with accompanying truth tables that are not-so-obvious is just a bad
> > joke.
> >
> ><https://www.php.net/manual/en/types.comparisons.php>
> >
> > true ==  0 -> false

	Yep 0 is not a true value

> > true === 0 -> false

	Yep 0 is not a boolean

> > true ==  1 -> true

	Yep 1 is a true value

> > true === 1 -> false

	Yep 1 is not a boolean

> > WTF?

	Seems fine to me, you just have to understand what it means like
any other language construct.

> That sounds like a description of one of those bogus programming
> languages that pops up in humour columns from time to time.
> One of them proposed an operator meaning "is more equal than"
> (shades of Animal Farm).

	Nope just someone who doesn't understand the language and wants to
complain.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#25634

FromA. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid>
Date2021-01-09 03:02 +0000
Message-ID<5ff91cd5$0$291$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#25619
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> 	Make that value comparison ...
> 	... and value and type comparison
> 	Seems fine to me, you just have to understand what it means like
> any other language construct.

Ah right, you already covered what I said.

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#25633

FromA. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid>
Date2021-01-09 02:58 +0000
Message-ID<5ff91be9$0$287$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#25618
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2021-01-08, Björn Lundin <b.f.lundin@gmail.com> wrote:
>> with accompanying truth tables that are not-so-obvious is just a bad joke.
>> 
>> <https://www.php.net/manual/en/types.comparisons.php>
>> 
>> true ==  0 -> false
>> true === 0 -> false
>> 
>> true ==  1 -> true
>> true === 1 -> false
>> 
>> WTF?
> 
> That sounds like a description of one of those bogus programming
> languages that pops up in humour columns from time to time.
> One of them proposed an operator meaning "is more equal than"
> (shades of Animal Farm).

Looks entirely reasonable to me, once you accept that == means "evaluates
to" and === means "is". That can be a useful distinction, and often a
necessary one in loosely typed languages.

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