Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.sys.raspberry-pi > #25372 > unrolled thread
| Started by | bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2021-01-01 20:53 +0000 |
| Last post | 2021-01-02 20:45 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 61 — 22 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.sys.raspberry-pi
USB card adapters crash Pi4 bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2021-01-01 20:53 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Nikolaj Lazic <nlazicBEZ_OVOGA@mudrac.ffzg.hr> - 2021-01-01 23:32 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-02 00:52 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2021-01-02 02:13 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 "Dave Liquorice" <allsortsnotthisbit@howhill.com> - 2021-01-02 09:49 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-02 12:34 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-02 12:51 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-02 13:23 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-02 14:52 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-02 17:27 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-02 18:05 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-02 19:45 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-02 20:41 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 05:53 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-03 14:39 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-03 15:41 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-01-03 18:38 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-03 19:15 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-04 03:17 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-04 11:33 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-04 12:24 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-04 13:58 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-04 10:21 -0500
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-04 15:33 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Björn Lundin <b.f.lundin@gmail.com> - 2021-01-23 23:03 +0100
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-23 22:54 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-23 18:30 -0500
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-24 14:42 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-23 23:31 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> - 2021-01-25 17:23 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-25 18:31 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Jim H <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-25 18:47 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-26 10:59 -0500
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> - 2021-01-26 17:13 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2021-01-26 23:11 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-25 18:55 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Dennis <dennis@none.none> - 2021-01-25 15:21 -0600
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-24 09:36 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-03 19:36 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-01-03 21:16 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-03 22:40 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-03 20:44 -0500
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-04 11:46 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-01-04 09:38 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-04 12:03 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-04 11:01 -0500
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-04 17:15 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-04 14:03 -0500
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 06:17 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-01-02 16:06 +0100
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2021-01-02 16:36 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-02 16:38 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-02 17:29 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-02 17:18 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2021-01-02 20:21 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2021-01-03 10:07 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2021-01-03 18:39 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 "Dave Liquorice" <allsortsnotthisbit@howhill.com> - 2021-01-02 13:08 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-02 09:10 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2021-01-02 12:36 +0000
Re: USB card adapters crash Pi4 bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> - 2021-01-02 20:45 +0000
Page 1 of 4 [1] 2 3 4 Next page →
| From | bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-01 20:53 +0000 |
| Subject | USB card adapters crash Pi4 |
| Message-ID | <rso244$fck$1@dont-email.me> |
Just tried using a couple of USB card adapters with my 8GB Pi4. Both cause immediate loss of USB hard disk access. Unplugging the offending adapter does not restore normal operation. Power cycling puts matters right without apparent ill effect. Doesn't seem to matter if there's a card in the adapter or not. The USB3-Sata adapter is a Sabrent EC-UASP. It uses the UAS driver and hasn't caused any obvious problems on its own. Anybody seen this, or have any idea what's going on? The card adapters are fairly generic. Both are USB3, both have been used before, but only in USB2 ports on Pi3's. One is no-name large- and micro-SD only, the other is a UGreen card reader supporting TF, SD, CF and MS cards. The slot labeled TF is the one I used with microSD cards, didn't notice the "TF" marking till just now. Thanks for reading! bob prohaska
[toc] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Nikolaj Lazic <nlazicBEZ_OVOGA@mudrac.ffzg.hr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-01 23:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnruvc8r.jhh.nlazicBEZ_OVOGA@mudrac.ffzg.hr> |
| In reply to | #25372 |
Dana Fri, 1 Jan 2021 20:53:25 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> napis'o: > Just tried using a couple of USB card adapters with my 8GB Pi4. > Both cause immediate loss of USB hard disk access. Unplugging > the offending adapter does not restore normal operation. Power > cycling puts matters right without apparent ill effect. Not enough power?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-02 00:52 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rsog5b$cbb$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25375 |
On Fri, 01 Jan 2021 23:32:43 +0000, Nikolaj Lazic wrote: > Dana Fri, 1 Jan 2021 20:53:25 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska > <bp@www.zefox.net> napis'o: >> Just tried using a couple of USB card adapters with my 8GB Pi4. >> Both cause immediate loss of USB hard disk access. Unplugging the >> offending adapter does not restore normal operation. Power cycling puts >> matters right without apparent ill effect. > > Not enough power? From your description it sounds as if you're booting with the adapters disconnected and the hangup occurs when one or both are connected to the Pi. Is that what happened? Do they work correctly when used together on another computer? Have you got a multimeter, osscilloscope or any other way to check the Pi's supply voltage? ------- I tend to keep a Pi power cable modified so I can measure the voltage across it. I run the cable through a small plastic box with terminals on the lid, the terminals are type used on oscilloscopes or multimeters for connecting test probes. These are worth using because they're difficult to short accidentally. The terminals on the box are connected to the red and black wires in the power cable. So that putting a multimeter or 'scope across them lets you monitor the supply voltage going into the Pi. I sometimes put two terminals in series on the red cable with an on/off switch on the bit of wire between the 'red' terminals: this makes current measurement easy: turn the switch off and connect a meter on the two 'red terminals to measure current. Don't wanna measure current? disconnect meter from red terminals and turn the switch on. You mightn't use this gadget very often, but boy is it useful to have one when you suddenly need to check voltage or current in a USB terminated cable. Farnell, Conrad and similar outfits sell suitable boxes and terminals as well as soldering irons and multimeters -- -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-02 02:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rsokso$u6n$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25376 |
Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote: > On Fri, 01 Jan 2021 23:32:43 +0000, Nikolaj Lazic wrote: > >> Dana Fri, 1 Jan 2021 20:53:25 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska >> <bp@www.zefox.net> napis'o: >>> Just tried using a couple of USB card adapters with my 8GB Pi4. >>> Both cause immediate loss of USB hard disk access. Unplugging the >>> offending adapter does not restore normal operation. Power cycling puts >>> matters right without apparent ill effect. >> >> Not enough power? > > From your description it sounds as if you're booting with the adapters > disconnected and the hangup occurs when one or both are connected to the > Pi. Is that what happened? > One adapter at a time, yes. > Do they work correctly when used together on another computer? > They did when plugged into Pi3's, both under FreeBSD and RaspiOS > Have you got a multimeter, osscilloscope or any other way to check the > Pi's supply voltage? > It never crossed my mind that power might be an issue. The power supply is a 3.5 amp unit from CanaKit. I suppose it's possible I'm on the edge, but you'd think that would cause boot troubles. I'll cobble up some test leads and check. No 'scope, alas, but I do have a voltmeter. That limits the utility of the measurement for transients. Hard to believe the puny little adapter could make trouble while spinning up the disk is ok. But it wouldn't be the first power supply to take sick on me. > ------- > I tend to keep a Pi power cable modified so I can measure the voltage > across it. I run the cable through a small plastic box with terminals on > the lid, the terminals are type used on oscilloscopes or multimeters for > connecting test probes. These are worth using because they're difficult > to short accidentally. The terminals on the box are connected to the red > and black wires in the power cable. So that putting a multimeter or > 'scope across them lets you monitor the supply voltage going into the Pi. > I sometimes put two terminals in series on the red cable with an on/off > switch on the bit of wire between the 'red' terminals: this makes current > measurement easy: turn the switch off and connect a meter on the two 'red > terminals to measure current. Don't wanna measure current? disconnect > meter from red terminals and turn the switch on. You mightn't use this > gadget very often, but boy is it useful to have one when you suddenly > need to check voltage or current in a USB terminated cable. My habit has been to probe the GPIO pins. I hope the problem doesn't become common enough to warrant a breakout box. Still it's a good idea. Thanks for writing! bob prohaska
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Dave Liquorice" <allsortsnotthisbit@howhill.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-02 09:49 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.qmbaiy0.pminews@news.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #25376 |
On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 00:52:59 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie wrote: > I tend to keep a Pi power cable modified so I can measure the voltage > across it. I run the cable through a small plastic box with terminals on > the lid, Or get one of the in line USB voltage and current meters. There are loads out there of no doubt variable quality. I've a KEX KCX-017 does the job (up to 3.5 A) and is accurate enough. Display shows V (to 10 mV resolution), A (1 mA resolution) and mAHr up to 20 AHr (less 1 mAHr). -- Cheers Dave.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-02 12:34 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rspp8l$4og$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25379 |
On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 09:49:46 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote: > On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 00:52:59 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie wrote: > >> I tend to keep a Pi power cable modified so I can measure the voltage >> across it. I run the cable through a small plastic box with terminals >> on the lid, > > Or get one of the in line USB voltage and current meters. > That makes sense - I didn't know these are available, but should have guessed. The only disadvantage would seem to be that you'll end up with a collection on different adapter cables since almost all of them seem to have just USB-C connections. > I've a KEX KCX-017 > Like so many Chinese things, Amazon currently has that one marked as 'unavailable', don't know when we'll have more. Dunno why their manufacturers persist in doing that: in makes them look like fly-by-night chancers, but maybe that's exactly what they are. -- -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-02 12:51 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rspq8n$4og$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25388 |
On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 12:34:29 +0000, Martin Gregorie wrote: > On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 09:49:46 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote: > >> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 00:52:59 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie wrote: >> >>> I tend to keep a Pi power cable modified so I can measure the voltage >>> across it. I run the cable through a small plastic box with terminals >>> on the lid, >> >> Or get one of the in line USB voltage and current meters. >> > That makes sense - I didn't know these are available, but should have > guessed. The only disadvantage would seem to be that you'll end up with > a collection on different adapter cables since almost all of them seem > to have just USB-C connections. > >> I've a KEX KCX-017 >> > Like so many Chinese things, Amazon currently has that one marked as > 'unavailable', don't know when we'll have more. > > Dunno why their manufacturers persist in doing that: in makes them look > like fly-by-night chancers, but maybe that's exactly what they are. Belated thought: I wonder how many of these nice toys, many of which which seem to have just one short production run, are actually final year projects for electronic design graduates at Chinese technical universities. -- -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-02 13:23 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rsps5u$91k$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #25390 |
On a sunny day (Sat, 2 Jan 2021 12:51:35 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote in <rspq8n$4og$2@dont-email.me>: >On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 12:34:29 +0000, Martin Gregorie wrote: > >> On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 09:49:46 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 00:52:59 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie wrote: >>> >>>> I tend to keep a Pi power cable modified so I can measure the voltage >>>> across it. I run the cable through a small plastic box with terminals >>>> on the lid, >>> >>> Or get one of the in line USB voltage and current meters. >>> >> That makes sense - I didn't know these are available, but should have >> guessed. The only disadvantage would seem to be that you'll end up with >> a collection on different adapter cables since almost all of them seem >> to have just USB-C connections. >> >>> I've a KEX KCX-017 >>> >> Like so many Chinese things, Amazon currently has that one marked as >> 'unavailable', don't know when we'll have more. >> >> Dunno why their manufacturers persist in doing that: in makes them look >> like fly-by-night chancers, but maybe that's exactly what they are. > >Belated thought: I wonder how many of these nice toys, many of which >which seem to have just one short production run, are actually final year >projects for electronic design graduates at Chinese technical >universities. Most AFAIK (the stuff I bought) are just based on chip manufacturer application notes. If you look at the chip number and locate the data sheet with google you likely find a circuit diagram :-) To measure DC without breaking any wires I have a Voltcraft VC-330 (google) AC / DC clamp on meter. Maybe slice an existing USB cable open, find the +5 V wire, clamp it on, measure it, tape it closed (have not tried it on USB). It is a useful universal thing that you can use for anything like for example measuring stuff in your car or whatever, without disconnecting or cutting wires etc. I would not buy something specialized for just USB.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-02 14:52 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rsq1bm$4og$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25392 |
On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 13:23:17 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote: > I would not buy something specialized for just USB. > Same here, but then I have an oscilloscope and at least three pocket-size multimeters, each is part of a different toolkit for the convenience of having a grabbit-and-go box for different purposes, e.g. model flying and soaring, and I've already built the aforementioned breakout boxes for USB and other connector sets. -- -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-02 17:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rsqag7$vo1$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #25393 |
On a sunny day (Sat, 2 Jan 2021 14:52:38 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote in <rsq1bm$4og$3@dont-email.me>: >On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 13:23:17 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote: > >> I would not buy something specialized for just USB. >> >Same here, but then I have an oscilloscope and at least three pocket-size >multimeters, each is part of a different toolkit for the convenience of >having a grabbit-and-go box for different purposes, e.g. model flying and >soaring, and I've already built the aforementioned breakout boxes for USB >and other connector sets. Yes, Ok. I have a like a complete lab with all sort of electronics, never seen the need to measure an USB cable, a dead short you can test with a multi-meter. Model flying I did too, from 31 Dec last year in the EU you need a drone license... http://panteltje.com/panteltje/quadcopter/index.html have not got the license yet, so my fireworks (also forbidden now) was playing with a blue power laser 2 days ago. I have the movie, but better not show it, shine in the clouds ;-) World has gone paranoia, if it continuous that way than the next generation will grow up as a bunch of dummies.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-02 18:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rsqcl3$at5$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25398 |
On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 17:27:41 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote: > Model flying I did too, from 31 Dec last year in the EU you need a drone > license... > Depends what you fly - I flew single channel RC for a year or to, then discovered free flight competition models, sold the RC gear and never looked back. No license is needed for free flight if the model weighs less than 250g. Also lots more exercise than just standing there holding a Tx, especially if you fly F1A (tow-line launched gliders - the faster you run before launch the higher it gets after release). > http://panteltje.com/panteltje/quadcopter/index.html > have not got the license yet, so my fireworks (also forbidden now) was > playing with a blue power laser 2 days ago. > I'd ban those (spoken with my pilot hat on) due to all the brain-dead idiots who think shining them at aircraft is cool. Oddly enough, the main use my scope got was checking the battery condition for my Koster dethermaliser timers: These ran off a stack of four 50mAh NiCds and were used to bring the model down out of a thermal at the end a timed competition flight. They do this by putting 500mA through a solenoid for 10 mS - this releases a catch on the tailplane which puts the glider into a stable deep stall, turning it into a rigid parachute so it drops out of the thermal and usually lands without damage. Looking at the shape of the solenoid pulse was a great way of checking battery condition. A good, new battery showed a nice bathtub curve- 1.5v deep with an 8ms flat bottom and a 45 degree recovery slope. As the battery aged, the flat bottom got shorter and the voltage drop increased, eventually becoming a 4v deep triangle. I replaced batteries once the voltage drop exceeded 2.5v - the time I put into designing, building and adjusting a new model vastly exceeded the cost of a new set of batteries. -- -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-02 19:45 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rsqiir$qqg$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #25400 |
On a sunny day (Sat, 2 Jan 2021 18:05:23 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote in <rsqcl3$at5$1@dont-email.me>: >On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 17:27:41 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote: > >> Model flying I did too, from 31 Dec last year in the EU you need a drone >> license... >> >Depends what you fly - I flew single channel RC for a year or to, then >discovered free flight competition models, sold the RC gear and never >looked back. > >No license is needed for free flight if the model weighs less than 250g. I think it is: "Unless it has a camera" (most of those do however). >Also lots more exercise than just standing there holding a Tx, especially >if you fly F1A (tow-line launched gliders - the faster you run before >launch the higher it gets after release). LOL, well I bike a lot... For me it is all curiosity, seemed interesting to write an auto-pilot and that works very well. It can be used for anything from rescue to warfare (drop a bomb). >> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/quadcopter/index.html >> have not got the license yet, so my fireworks (also forbidden now) was >> playing with a blue power laser 2 days ago. >> >I'd ban those (spoken with my pilot hat on) due to all the brain-dead >idiots who think shining them at aircraft is cool. This is the problem, there is ALWAYS someone who does bad things with things, did you know you can kill somebody with a fork? So now we forbid all forks (after the knives that is), same for so many other things. It is the wrong way to go about it all. Also it is money sucking. I got my radio ham license when it was free, after that now I have to pay like 30 Euro a year,,, The drone license is not free, and in a few years your drone needs an ID transmitter on the drone AND one on the remote, so they can find where it is and the whereabout of who controls it. If Russia did it it would be called ....? Total control state, revolution is needed, I have the tech, much more than this. You see people rising up against the total lockdown, big party thing in France I just did read, 2500 people together in some hall, they chased the police out! >Oddly enough, the main use my scope got was checking the battery >condition for my Koster dethermaliser timers: These ran off a stack of >four 50mAh NiCds and were used to bring the model down out of a thermal >at the end a timed competition flight. They do this by putting 500mA >through a solenoid for 10 mS - this releases a catch on the tailplane >which puts the glider into a stable deep stall, turning it into a rigid >parachute so it drops out of the thermal and usually lands without damage. Nice system, nicads (I still have one that works) are a bit from the past these days, lipos work great for my drone, I tried liion (with power converter) but that does not fly longer. Then I tried a wire, and sure you can keep the thing in the air indefinitely: http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_flight_test_1_IMG_6274.JPG note the thin coax over the fence, I send several hundred volt at 100 kHz, transformed it down at the drone, the high volts at low current allows for a thin light coax. Position of the drone using differential GPS is within a few cm stable. http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_test_ground_control_1_IMG_6276.JPG with scope :-) The drone side, the high voltage is transformed down by a ringcore transformer to 7.5 V 10A the high current rectifier diodes are on heatsinks in the air flow from the propellers: http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_drone_side_IMG_6278.JPG Part of the 'lab': http://panteltje.com/pub/h501s_drone_remote_power_lab_test_IMG_6271.JPG >Looking at the shape of the solenoid pulse was a great way of checking >battery condition. A good, new battery showed a nice bathtub curve- 1.5v >deep with an 8ms flat bottom and a 45 degree recovery slope. As the >battery aged, the flat bottom got shorter and the voltage drop increased, >eventually becoming a 4v deep triangle. I replaced batteries once the >voltage drop exceeded 2.5v - the time I put into designing, building and >adjusting a new model vastly exceeded the cost of a new set of batteries. Designing 'tronics and playing with 'tricety I started at 4 years old, became my job at some point. It is fun.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-02 20:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rsqlp0$at5$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25402 |
On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 19:45:37 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote: > On a sunny day (Sat, 2 Jan 2021 18:05:23 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Martin >>No license is needed for free flight if the model weighs less than 250g. > > I think it is: "Unless it has a camera" (most of those do however). > Nope. I've never even heard of cameras on Free flight. They're just irrelevant because by definition the only control possible on a free flight model is an RDT: the whole point is that the model can't be controlled after launch because what a contest is about is the art of launching into lift and of designing/building trimming the model so it ca self-centre in the lift patch it was launched into. Scoring is simple: at the end of a competition the winner is the person with the highest total flight time. RDT = radio dethermaliser - pushing the button is an irreversable action that overrides the onboard timer forcing it to end the flight. We do carry reverse links though (radio trackers to aid retrieval after a flight and some carry a GPS which modulates the tracker to send location information back to the model's flyer. Like the tracker, this just makes retrieval easier after the flight. Seems like you might never have seen a free flight model. Look here: https://www.gregorie.org/freeflight/index.html and there'a bit on the Koster timer here: https://www.gregorie.org/freeflight/timers/personal.html -- -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-03 05:53 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rsrm72$140$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #25406 |
On a sunny day (Sat, 2 Jan 2021 20:41:05 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote in <rsqlp0$at5$2@dont-email.me>: >On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 19:45:37 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote: > >> On a sunny day (Sat, 2 Jan 2021 18:05:23 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Martin >>>No license is needed for free flight if the model weighs less than 250g. >> >> I think it is: "Unless it has a camera" (most of those do however). >> >Nope. I've never even heard of cameras on Free flight. They're just >irrelevant because by definition the only control possible on a free >flight model is an RDT: the whole point is that the model can't be >controlled after launch because what a contest is about is the art of >launching into lift and of designing/building trimming the model so it ca >self-centre in the lift patch it was launched into. Scoring is simple: at >the end of a competition the winner is the person with the highest total >flight time. I have no experience with 'free flight' other than folding paper airplanes.... Cameras weight next to nothing and can record automatically to some microSDcard... would be nice to get an aerial view? >RDT = radio dethermaliser - pushing the button is an irreversable action >that overrides the onboard timer forcing it to end the flight. > >We do carry reverse links though (radio trackers to aid retrieval after a >flight and some carry a GPS which modulates the tracker to send location >information back to the model's flyer. Like the tracker, this just makes >retrieval easier after the flight. Yes, >Seems like you might never have seen a free flight model. Look here: >https://www.gregorie.org/freeflight/index.html Nice, but being an electronics freak so to speak I want power and control. But free flight models seem a great way to learn about aerodynamics. Not much of a competition person here, just experimenting. make my own rules set my own targets. >and there'a bit on the Koster timer here: >https://www.gregorie.org/freeflight/timers/personal.html Nice, for those days electronics, used the 555 myself in industry... These days I just program a Microchip PIC controller in asm, set values via serial link before takeoff, like for the air text: http://panteltje.com/panteltje/quadcopter/hsign.html HUD display with on screen GPS and power: http://panteltje.com/panteltje/quadcopter/hud.html Auto pilot controlling drone and dropping load: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI_0mjwlvNw I do not use a solenoid, but an electric motor with a screw that releases some nuts, this gives more power with heavy loads, at low peak current. http://panteltje.com/panteltje/quadcopter/H501S_load_releasy_system_mounting_IMG_6049.JPG also note the micro-sdcard for the video... Precise hands free flight to a few cm. Better get the GPS stuff right, the first experiments needed fast user interaction to prevent it flying through windows etc... The 'tronics' is basically very simple. Programming in asm on PIC micros is fun :-) It (the hardware) does what you tell it to do, China has demonstrated large groups of drones flying art like formations using something like this tech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnTQTm7vNbY
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-03 14:39 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rsskuc$pim$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25408 |
> > Nice, but being an electronics freak so to speak I want power and > control. > Understood, but as far as models are concerned, I preferred flying control-line models to RC. For controlled flight I just climb into my Standard Libelle and take a winch launch: just 35 seconds from first movement to 450m and cruises at 120 kph. > But free flight models seem a great way to learn about aerodynamics. > Not much of a competition person here, just experimenting. make my own > rules set my own targets. > Yes, that's very true. But, a big benefit of competition flying is that it gets you out of the house on less than perfect days: no matter how good or bad, the weather is the same for everybody in the contest. > I do not use a solenoid, but an electric motor with a screw that > releases some nuts, this gives more power with heavy loads, > at low peak current. > Yes, that makes sense. > Programming in asm on PIC micros is fun :-) It (the hardware) does what > you tell it to do, > I've got a PICAXE to experiment with, which I quite like apart from its rather unpleasant unsigned integer BASIC, but I csan live with that. I do like the built-in device controllers though, especially the servo drivers - perfect for controlling small BEC-equipped motors and EDF (electric ducted fan) systems. -- -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-03 15:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rssoki$19an$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #25410 |
On a sunny day (Sun, 3 Jan 2021 14:39:08 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote in <rsskuc$pim$1@dont-email.me>: >Understood, but as far as models are concerned, I preferred flying >control-line models to RC. For controlled flight I just climb into my >Standard Libelle and take a winch launch: just 35 seconds from first >movement to 450m and cruises at 120 kph. Yea I better not go into detail here of my adventures in the F100 Super Sabre.. when I got the order to abort, so many lives at stake... ;-) >> But free flight models seem a great way to learn about aerodynamics. >> Not much of a competition person here, just experimenting. make my own >> rules set my own targets. >> >Yes, that's very true. But, a big benefit of competition flying is that >it gets you out of the house on less than perfect days: no matter how >good or bad, the weather is the same for everybody in the contest. Yes, one problem here is that the government decreed the whole area to a no fly zone for model aircraft.. I am close to Leeuwarden mil airbase. One reason I do not fly this one: http://panteltje.com/pub/axion_laser_arrow_IXIMG_0650.JPG serves more as ornament, wrote a whole lot of stuff for that though. But it needs space, 160 km/h. >> Programming in asm on PIC micros is fun :-) It (the hardware) does what >> you tell it to do, >> >I've got a PICAXE to experiment with, which I quite like apart from its >rather unpleasant unsigned integer BASIC, but I csan live with that. I do >like the built-in device controllers though, especially the servo drivers >- perfect for controlling small BEC-equipped motors and EDF (electric >ducted fan) systems. I also wrote the software I use to program the PICs, the hardware is based on the noppp programmer, just modified it a bit for the modern PICs: http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/jppp18/index.html uses PC parport, using a PCI card with parport connector in the modern PC.. did many PIC projects, some are on my site: http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/index.html As to that BASIC: in my view asm is often simpler, indeed the PIC hardware is nice. I use an asm math library written by someone else, so far 32 bit integer was all I needed, In asm you do not have to worry about code generation by whatever... compiler ... Also the PICs give you near zero boot time, near zero power consumption, near zero weight, near zero cost (about 2$ a piece).
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Joe <joe@jretrading.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-03 18:38 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20210103182819.478f6039@jresid.jretrading.com> |
| In reply to | #25411 |
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 15:41:04 GMT Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote: > > I use an asm math library written by someone else, > so far 32 bit integer was all I needed, "If you need to use floating-point arithmetic in FORTH, you do not fully understand your application" Not sure if it was Charles Moore or Leo Brodie who said that. -- Joe
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-03 19:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rst55f0362@news2.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #25413 |
On 2021-01-03, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote: > On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 15:41:04 GMT > Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> I use an asm math library written by someone else, >> so far 32 bit integer was all I needed, > > "If you need to use floating-point arithmetic in FORTH, > you do not fully understand your application" > > Not sure if it was Charles Moore or Leo Brodie who said that. It makes sense, though, depending on your applications. In 50 years of commercial programming, I can count the number of times I've used floating point on the fingers of one hand. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die, \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's a sacrifice X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make." / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-04 03:17 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rsu1c7$mce$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25415 |
On 03/01/2021 19:15, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2021-01-03, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote: > >> On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 15:41:04 GMT >> Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> I use an asm math library written by someone else, >>> so far 32 bit integer was all I needed, >> >> "If you need to use floating-point arithmetic in FORTH, >> you do not fully understand your application" >> >> Not sure if it was Charles Moore or Leo Brodie who said that. > > It makes sense, though, depending on your applications. > In 50 years of commercial programming, I can count the > number of times I've used floating point on the fingers > of one hand. > Odd. I use it extensively. Not for money oriented stuff tho -- New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-04 11:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rsuuen$epp$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25421 |
On Mon, 04 Jan 2021 03:17:27 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 03/01/2021 19:15, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> On 2021-01-03, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 15:41:04 GMT Jan Panteltje >>> <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I use an asm math library written by someone else, >>>> so far 32 bit integer was all I needed, >>> >>> "If you need to use floating-point arithmetic in FORTH, >>> you do not fully understand your application" >>> >>> Not sure if it was Charles Moore or Leo Brodie who said that. >> >> It makes sense, though, depending on your applications. >> In 50 years of commercial programming, I can count the number of times >> I've used floating point on the fingers of one hand. >> > Odd. I use it extensively. Not for money oriented stuff tho Not that odd: in a 30 year IT career (system design, programming, sysadmin, much of it databases and finance-related systems) I can only think of one survey analysis program I wrote, in Algol 60, that used floating point (and that was for a one-off task). Financial systems never use floating point for accuracy reasons: consequently integers are used to hold currency amounts: sterling amounts are held as pence, euros and dollars as cents and the equivalent convention is used for all other currencies. The only exception I'm aware of was financial packages written in BASIC for early microcomputers, and that was only because (a) integers tended to be 16 bits at most and (b) their PRINT statements often couldn't interpolate a decimal point when displaying an integer value. OTOH COBOL was designed from the outset to deal with currency amounts held as integers: 77 INVOICE-TOTAL PIC £99,999,990.00CR COMP SYNC BLANK WHEN ZERO. might look as if its floating point but, the variable would be a 32 bit signed integer which would be read or written as a string containing the currency sign, possibly containing comma separators and with a decimal point separating pounds from pence. RPG (UGH!) does the same and all modern languages (and assemblers) have sufficiently powerful number scanning and formatting library functions to do the same. -- -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 1 of 4 [1] 2 3 4 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | comp.sys.raspberry-pi
csiph-web