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Groups > comp.sys.raspberry-pi > #25425 > unrolled thread
| Started by | gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2021-01-04 11:00 +0000 |
| Last post | 2021-02-12 15:40 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 157 — 28 participants |
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AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 11:00 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-04 11:42 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-04 13:08 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 17:51 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-04 21:57 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 22:23 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-04 23:09 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 17:50 -0500
Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-04 23:00 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 16:59 -0700
Re: AI and decompilation? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 20:42 -0500
Re: AI and decompilation? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 20:59 -0500
Re: AI and decompilation? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 20:55 -0500
Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-05 10:38 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2021-01-05 12:46 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-05 13:43 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2021-01-05 14:23 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 15:22 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 09:05 -0500
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 10:51 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-05 11:52 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 12:06 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:12 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 11:45 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 14:25 -0700
Re: AI and decompilation? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 20:38 -0500
Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 11:54 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 14:06 -0700
Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 22:52 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 10:29 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-04 11:05 -0500
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-04 17:07 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-04 17:52 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 10:28 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-05 13:06 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 13:41 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 15:30 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-05 16:42 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:12 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 20:20 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-05 22:23 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-06 00:14 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-01-06 02:17 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Björn Lundin <b.f.lundin@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 14:39 +0100
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-08 15:07 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-08 15:56 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-08 15:35 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-01-08 20:02 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Björn Lundin <b.f.lundin@gmail.com> - 2021-01-10 15:12 +0100
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-06 09:36 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-06 10:43 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-06 18:09 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-06 18:29 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-06 18:37 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-06 21:03 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Björn Lundin <b.f.lundin@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 14:45 +0100
Re: AI and decompilation? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-08 18:06 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-08 18:44 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2021-01-09 03:02 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2021-01-09 02:58 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-01-06 18:35 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-06 18:39 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-06 19:03 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-06 19:08 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-06 19:19 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-07 04:07 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-07 12:59 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-08 21:41 -0500
Re: AI and decompilation? Pancho <Pancho.Dontmaileme@outlook.com> - 2021-01-09 12:25 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-09 12:46 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-09 15:49 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-09 18:33 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-09 19:20 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-09 21:05 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-09 23:19 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-10 12:17 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-09 16:54 -0500
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-09 23:48 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2021-01-10 02:00 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2021-01-09 18:36 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-09 19:28 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-10 12:15 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 12:33 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-01-10 13:18 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-10 14:01 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2021-01-10 15:14 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-10 13:59 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 14:46 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-10 15:34 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-01-10 15:05 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Axel Berger <Spam@Berger-Odenthal.De> - 2021-01-10 17:28 +0100
Re: AI and decompilation? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-01-11 17:25 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2021-01-10 15:13 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-01-10 15:35 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 15:35 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2021-01-10 17:23 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-10 18:17 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-11 03:44 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2021-01-11 11:00 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-11 03:36 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-01-06 21:34 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2021-01-06 18:37 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-08 21:09 -0500
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-06 09:32 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Björn Lundin <b.f.lundin@gmail.com> - 2021-01-08 14:56 +0100
Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 14:25 -0700
Re: AI and decompilation? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2021-01-06 14:17 +0200
Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-06 12:42 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2021-01-06 16:42 +0200
Re: AI and decompilation? "Kerr-Mudd,John" <notsaying@127.0.0.1> - 2021-01-08 09:48 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-08 10:27 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2021-01-08 21:40 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 14:06 -0700
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-05 22:27 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-06 00:14 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-06 08:25 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-08 21:52 -0500
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-09 15:37 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-10 06:40 -0700
Re: AI and decompilation? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-06 15:15 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-06 16:09 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-06 17:07 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> - 2021-01-06 17:38 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2021-01-05 21:20 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 17:47 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2021-01-04 14:18 -0500
Re: AI and decompilation? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-04 16:54 -0700
Re: AI and decompilation? Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2021-01-04 23:01 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-01-04 20:11 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 09:07 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-05 09:47 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 11:13 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 12:12 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 13:39 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 15:32 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 15:40 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-05 16:02 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-05 18:27 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 21:15 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 22:54 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 11:56 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? A. Dumas <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2021-01-05 14:11 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2021-01-05 14:22 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 15:35 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-01-05 18:47 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-01-05 20:15 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-01-05 07:32 -0500
Re: AI and decompilation? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-01-05 16:00 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Adrian Caspersz <email@here.invalid> - 2021-01-05 11:26 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-01-05 13:07 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-01-05 13:42 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-01-05 18:31 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? "K. Krause" <klemens.krause@gmx.net> - 2021-01-05 16:01 +0100
Re: AI and decompilation? druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2021-01-05 20:51 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-01-05 22:51 +0000
Re: AI and decompilation? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2021-01-08 22:23 -0500
Re: AI and decompilation? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-02-12 15:40 +0000
Page 5 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 Next page →
| From | Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-09 19:28 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rtd05h$563$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25669 |
On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 18:36:00 +0000, druck wrote: > On 09/01/2021 15:49, Martin Gregorie wrote: >> Curses is purest C - it sits on top of the termcap functions and adds >> capabilities like pop-up subwindows > > It also uses y,x coordinates which drives me up the wall! > But so does termcap - no getting away from that if you want simple and formatted output direct to the console -unless you're going to follow TNP's lead and just spit HTML text at Lynx or the web browser of your choice. - or use PHP to do pretty much the same thing, though this will probably result in a more complex program structure if what it does is non-trivial. -- -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 12:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rter5u$spf$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25671 |
On 09/01/2021 19:28, Martin Gregorie wrote: > On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 18:36:00 +0000, druck wrote: > >> On 09/01/2021 15:49, Martin Gregorie wrote: >>> Curses is purest C - it sits on top of the termcap functions and adds >>> capabilities like pop-up subwindows >> >> It also uses y,x coordinates which drives me up the wall! >> > But so does termcap - no getting away from that if you want simple and > formatted output direct to the console > > -unless you're going to follow TNP's lead and just spit HTML text at Lynx > or the web browser of your choice. > > - or use PHP to do pretty much the same thing, though this will probably > result in a more complex program structure if what it does is > non-trivial. > > I think you don't seem to have grasped the issue with server side versus client side. The problem with server side is that it needs a page reload to register changes. If on the other hand you download loads of javascript then you can use that to make the page dynamic. Even if you use AJAX that's still some javascript needed to invoke the callback to the server. So PHP is not equivalent to JavaScript. PHP is fine at interrogating databases and doing a lot of server side stuff, but for popup dialogues and menus that expand you need Javascript. I once wrote code that downloaded the ENTIRE contents of a company stock a to allow it to be rapidly searched. It was not as big as some website background images....javascript is pretty fast, too. -- “It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.” Thomas Sowell
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 12:33 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20210110123326.96648b3cfc9ce6968346b581@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #25687 |
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:15:58 +0000 The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > So PHP is not equivalent to JavaScript. PHP is fine at interrogating > databases and doing a lot of server side stuff, but for popup dialogues > and menus that expand you need Javascript. I thought those could be done in HTML and CSS these days. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 13:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <i60d5jF8s83U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #25691 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >> for popup dialogues and menus that expand you need Javascript. > > I thought those could be done in HTML and CSS these days. Yes, using selectors such as :focus, :checked or :target instead of event handlers such as onfocus() or onchange(), and if you can ignore older browsers. You can do a certain amount of form validation with pure html/css, but it generally doesn't take long to need *some* javascript, at which point you might as well make your life a bit easier and use it in more places for consistency.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 14:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rtf1bj$d30$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25693 |
On 10/01/2021 13:18, Andy Burns wrote: > Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > >> The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> >>> for popup dialogues and menus that expand you need Javascript. >> >> I thought those could be done in HTML and CSS these days. > > Yes, using selectors such as :focus, :checked or :target instead of > event handlers such as onfocus() or onchange(), and if you can ignore > older browsers. > > You can do a certain amount of form validation with pure html/css, but > it generally doesn't take long to need *some* javascript, at which point > you might as well make your life a bit easier and use it in more places > for consistency. > > I think that's pretty much my position. Once you realise you pretty much need it, you might as well use it where its simpler than complicated CSS or HTML constructions. -- Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get. Mark Twain
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| From | TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 15:14 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <i60juuF5jg5U5@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #25693 |
On 10 Jan 2021 at 13:18:42 GMT, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote: > Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > >> The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> >>> for popup dialogues and menus that expand you need Javascript. >> >> I thought those could be done in HTML and CSS these days. > > Yes, using selectors such as :focus, :checked or :target instead of > event handlers such as onfocus() or onchange(), and if you can ignore > older browsers. Just ignore any browser that isn't HTML5 compliant. -- Tim
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 13:59 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rtf17n$d30$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25691 |
On 10/01/2021 12:33, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:15:58 +0000 > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> So PHP is not equivalent to JavaScript. PHP is fine at interrogating >> databases and doing a lot of server side stuff, but for popup dialogues >> and menus that expand you need Javascript. > > I thought those could be done in HTML and CSS these days. > not really - unless you consider that e.g. onmouseover() or hover: is not Javascript and even then if you want to unhide some block, you need to be able to address it via the DOM. So you need a getElementbyId(x).style.display='block'; and so on. Cant see how to do that in css. willing to find out I cant really write a web page the way I want it without javascript these days. Ok its not a LOT of javascript. -- “It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.” Thomas Sowell
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 14:46 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20210110144614.54f98656f1b4c92d31af317a@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #25695 |
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 13:59:19 +0000 The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 10/01/2021 12:33, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > > On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:15:58 +0000 > > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > > > >> So PHP is not equivalent to JavaScript. PHP is fine at interrogating > >> databases and doing a lot of server side stuff, but for popup dialogues > >> and menus that expand you need Javascript. > > > > I thought those could be done in HTML and CSS these days. > > > not really - unless you consider that e.g. onmouseover() or hover: is hver: is CSS onmouseover() is JavaScript. > not Javascript and even then if you want to unhide some block, you need > to be able to address it via the DOM. So you need a > getElementbyId(x).style.display='block'; and so on. I've seen hide/unhide done without JavaScript. Admittedly it looks clearer and easier in JavaSript. > Cant see how to do that in css. willing to find out I get the impression that there's a lot that can be done in pure CSS but ingenuity tends to be needed and it's sometimes far from obvious how things work (based on looking at some examples). > I cant really write a web page the way I want it without javascript > these days. Ok its not a LOT of javascript. Fair enough, the original intent of JavaScript was simple additions rather than client side applications so it's nice to hear it being treated that way. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 15:34 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rtf6qd$loe$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25699 |
On 10/01/2021 14:46, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 13:59:19 +0000 > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> On 10/01/2021 12:33, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: >>> On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:15:58 +0000 >>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> So PHP is not equivalent to JavaScript. PHP is fine at interrogating >>>> databases and doing a lot of server side stuff, but for popup dialogues >>>> and menus that expand you need Javascript. >>> >>> I thought those could be done in HTML and CSS these days. >>> >> not really - unless you consider that e.g. onmouseover() or hover: is > > hver: is CSS onmouseover() is JavaScript. > >> not Javascript and even then if you want to unhide some block, you need >> to be able to address it via the DOM. So you need a >> getElementbyId(x).style.display='block'; and so on. > > I've seen hide/unhide done without JavaScript. Admittedly it looks > clearer and easier in JavaSript. > >> Cant see how to do that in css. willing to find out > > I get the impression that there's a lot that can be done in pure > CSS but ingenuity tends to be needed and it's sometimes far from obvious > how things work (based on looking at some examples). > >> I cant really write a web page the way I want it without javascript >> these days. Ok its not a LOT of javascript. > > Fair enough, the original intent of JavaScript was simple additions > rather than client side applications so it's nice to hear it being treated > that way. > well that's if you are running a web site to provide information, but in fact I've seen complex engineering calculators written in it. It's an awful language, like PHP, but it is sadly ubiquitous. -- "It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"
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| From | Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 15:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <i60jd5Fa2lfU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #25695 |
The Natural Philosopher wrote: > Cant see how to do that in css. willing to find out One way is to turn all elements you want to control into checkboxes (or radio buttons, maybe even sub-items in a droplist) so the browser maintains their GUI state, then style them so they don't look like checkboxes, then use css to modify the styles depending on whether their states are checked or not. Modifying the style might be used to hide/show elements, change their colour, make them enabled/disabled, reposition them, etc. <https://webdesign.tutsplus.com/tutorials/accordion-component-with-css-checkbox-hack--cms-34105>
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| From | Axel Berger <Spam@Berger-Odenthal.De> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 17:28 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <5FFB2B2F.838E0731@Berger-Odenthal.De> |
| In reply to | #25700 |
Andy Burns wrote: > then use css to modify the styles depending on whether their > states are checked or not. CSS is strictly for design not content. If suppressing CSS (for whatever reason, sensible or not) loses content it's stricly wrong. Highlighting content and making it more visible is another thing, but checked vs. unchecked *must* be discernible to everybody under all circumstances. I routinely suppress colours and backgrounds -- most sites become so much more easily legible and no longer hide the distinction between visited/unvisited links from me (not to mention links at all - most uses are not meant to be but are similar to games where you have click arbitrary items to find the hidden door) but in some very bad ones I lose important content that way. This is neither taste nor choice, it's simply wrong. -- /¯\ No | Dipl.-Ing. F. Axel Berger Tel: +49/ 221/ 7771 8067 \ / HTML | Roald-Amundsen-Straße 2a Fax: +49/ 221/ 7771 8069 X in | D-50829 Köln-Ossendorf http://berger-odenthal.de / \ Mail | -- No unannounced, large, binary attachments, please! --
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| From | Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-11 17:25 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <i63fviFrjorU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #25708 |
Axel Berger wrote: > Andy Burns wrote: > >> then use css to modify the styles depending on whether their >> states are checked or not. > > CSS is strictly for design not content. Well, it is described as a css hack ...
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| From | TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 15:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <i60jt3F5jg5U4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #25691 |
On 10 Jan 2021 at 12:33:26 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: > On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:15:58 +0000 > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> So PHP is not equivalent to JavaScript. PHP is fine at interrogating >> databases and doing a lot of server side stuff, but for popup dialogues >> and menus that expand you need Javascript. > > I thought those could be done in HTML and CSS these days. Not if you have a sequence of popups, where the content of a subsquent one depends on the choice made in the previous one. And the choices in them, or even whether they are presented at all, depends on what you read out of your databases server-side. -- Tim
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| From | Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 15:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <i60l5eFae2pU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #25701 |
TimS wrote: > Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > >> I thought those could be done in HTML and CSS these days. > > Not if you have a sequence of popups, where the content of a subsquent one > depends on the choice made in the previous one. I think you could, but the nesting of container elements that end up modifying the lower elements based on the combined pseudo selectors would multiply horribly ... perhaps if you were using sass to "compile" your css instead of writing it by hand?
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 15:35 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20210110153520.d69f8ab8649c0c34730f7587@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #25701 |
On 10 Jan 2021 15:13:39 GMT TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote: > On 10 Jan 2021 at 12:33:26 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> > wrote: > > > On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:15:58 +0000 > > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > > > >> So PHP is not equivalent to JavaScript. PHP is fine at interrogating > >> databases and doing a lot of server side stuff, but for popup > >> dialogues and menus that expand you need Javascript. > > > > I thought those could be done in HTML and CSS these days. > > Not if you have a sequence of popups, where the content of a subsquent one > depends on the choice made in the previous one. And the choices in them, > or even whether they are presented at all, depends on what you read out > of your databases server-side. I'd think sending the whole decision tree up front should work, it worked fine back when I was doing directory trees in early JavaScript on Netscape 2. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 17:23 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <i60rh4F5jg5U6@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #25706 |
On 10 Jan 2021 at 15:35:20 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote: > On 10 Jan 2021 15:13:39 GMT > TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote: > >> On 10 Jan 2021 at 12:33:26 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> >> wrote: >> >> > On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:15:58 +0000 >> > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> > >> >> So PHP is not equivalent to JavaScript. PHP is fine at interrogating >> >> databases and doing a lot of server side stuff, but for popup >> >> dialogues and menus that expand you need Javascript. >> > >> > I thought those could be done in HTML and CSS these days. >> >> Not if you have a sequence of popups, where the content of a subsquent one >> depends on the choice made in the previous one. And the choices in them, >> or even whether they are presented at all, depends on what you read out >> of your databases server-side. > > I'd think sending the whole decision tree up front should work, it > worked fine back when I was doing directory trees in early JavaScript on > Netscape 2. Er no. It will get out of hand when you have 30 in the first popup, 40 in the second, and 30 again in the third. When I did the front end to an assets database at my last job, that's how I started it. I could see it wasn't going to scale. -- Tim
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-10 18:17 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20210110181751.ad661ebee5e82295918d9a86@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #25711 |
On 10 Jan 2021 17:23:48 GMT TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote: > On 10 Jan 2021 at 15:35:20 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> > wrote: > > > I'd think sending the whole decision tree up front should work, > > it worked fine back when I was doing directory trees in early > > JavaScript on Netscape 2. > > Er no. It will get out of hand when you have 30 in the first popup, 40 in > the second, and 30 again in the third. When I did the front end to an That's around 36K elements, perhaps doable but definitely on the overlarge side (perhaps a well structured megabyte or so of data), another level would blow it totally. > assets database at my last job, that's how I started it. I could see it > wasn't going to scale. Sure, but when the tree is small enough it's probably the way to go. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-11 03:44 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rtghib$arr$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25711 |
On 10/01/2021 17:23, TimS wrote: > On 10 Jan 2021 at 15:35:20 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> > wrote: > >> On 10 Jan 2021 15:13:39 GMT >> TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote: >> >>> On 10 Jan 2021 at 12:33:26 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:15:58 +0000 >>> > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> > >>> >> So PHP is not equivalent to JavaScript. PHP is fine at interrogating >>> >> databases and doing a lot of server side stuff, but for popup >>> >> dialogues and menus that expand you need Javascript. >>> > >>> > I thought those could be done in HTML and CSS these days. >>> >>> Not if you have a sequence of popups, where the content of a subsquent one >>> depends on the choice made in the previous one. And the choices in them, >>> or even whether they are presented at all, depends on what you read out >>> of your databases server-side. >> >> I'd think sending the whole decision tree up front should work, it >> worked fine back when I was doing directory trees in early JavaScript on >> Netscape 2. > > Er no. It will get out of hand when you have 30 in the first popup, 40 in the > second, and 30 again in the third. When I did the front end to an assets > database at my last job, that's how I started it. I could see it wasn't going > to scale. > Actually it doesn't get out of hand, As I said in order to have a rapidly navigable store inventory I sent the whole bloody stock list down sorted by category as a giant series of hidden <divs> and used javascript to open up the parts of the tree the user wanted to view. And to invoke a page load for an individual stock item. The whole thing was only about 50kB. And worked perfectly reasonably over a 48k modem, too. Loaded far faster than my banking software does these days. -- WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.
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| From | TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-11 11:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <i62pdnF5jg5U7@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #25728 |
On 11 Jan 2021 at 03:44:11 GMT, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 10/01/2021 17:23, TimS wrote: >> On 10 Jan 2021 at 15:35:20 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> >> wrote: >> >>> On 10 Jan 2021 15:13:39 GMT >>> TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 10 Jan 2021 at 12:33:26 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> > On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:15:58 +0000 >>>> > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> So PHP is not equivalent to JavaScript. PHP is fine at interrogating >>>> >> databases and doing a lot of server side stuff, but for popup >>>> >> dialogues and menus that expand you need Javascript. >>>> > >>>> > I thought those could be done in HTML and CSS these days. >>>> >>>> Not if you have a sequence of popups, where the content of a subsquent one >>>> depends on the choice made in the previous one. And the choices in them, >>>> or even whether they are presented at all, depends on what you read out >>>> of your databases server-side. >>> >>> I'd think sending the whole decision tree up front should work, it >>> worked fine back when I was doing directory trees in early JavaScript on >>> Netscape 2. >> >> Er no. It will get out of hand when you have 30 in the first popup, 40 in the >> second, and 30 again in the third. When I did the front end to an assets >> database at my last job, that's how I started it. I could see it wasn't going >> to scale. >> > Actually it doesn't get out of hand, > As I said in order to have a rapidly navigable store inventory I sent > the whole bloody stock list down sorted by category as a giant series of > hidden <divs> and used javascript to open up the parts of the tree the > user wanted to view. In my case it *did* get out of hand. This was the inventory for a Europe-wide network. 30 Pops, a dozen bits of kit in each, many with a dozen interface boards, each with 8 or 16 ports. That gets you down to the individual port with its cable to another bit of kit (typically, Juniper router port to Alcatel optical port). Before I knew enough about javascript and PHP, I was downloading all 34000 options down as one block, something over half a meg of stuff, and links were slower 20 years ago. Using iFrames helped a lot. Today I'd do it rather differently, but then the guy who was at that time just starting this project resigned with half a day's notice, so I got half an hour of his time to get up to speed. Not easy at first as at that point I'd heard of javascript but never used it, and never heard of PHP at all. If you wonder wny that might be so, given I'd been writing software since 1965, I got switched to Operations in the early 90's and essentially stopped being involved in any software development. > Loaded far faster than my banking software does these days. That's because they use that Jquery bollox instead of insisting on strict HTML5 compliance. -- Tim
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2021-01-11 03:36 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <rtgh4f$7su$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25706 |
On 10/01/2021 15:35, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote: > On 10 Jan 2021 15:13:39 GMT > TimS <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote: > >> On 10 Jan 2021 at 12:33:26 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> >> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:15:58 +0000 >>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> So PHP is not equivalent to JavaScript. PHP is fine at interrogating >>>> databases and doing a lot of server side stuff, but for popup >>>> dialogues and menus that expand you need Javascript. >>> >>> I thought those could be done in HTML and CSS these days. >> >> Not if you have a sequence of popups, where the content of a subsquent one >> depends on the choice made in the previous one. And the choices in them, >> or even whether they are presented at all, depends on what you read out >> of your databases server-side. > > I'd think sending the whole decision tree up front should work, it > worked fine back when I was doing directory trees in early JavaScript on > Netscape 2. > Yes, that is often the case. Ajax is also not a bad way to build things that are almost i-frames: small active regions within bigger static pages. -- Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.
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