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gmail disaster?

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  gmail disaster? dog@gmail.com - 2016-09-02 00:05 +0000
    Re: gmail disaster? Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> - 2016-09-02 09:22 +0100
      Re: gmail disaster? Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2016-09-02 17:09 +0100
        Re: gmail disaster? mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> - 2016-09-02 18:30 +0100
          Re: gmail disaster? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-02 18:58 +0100
            Re: gmail disaster? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-09-02 14:03 -0500
              Re: gmail disaster? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-09-02 22:38 +0100
                Re: gmail disaster? Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2016-09-03 06:06 +0100
                  Re: gmail disaster? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-09-03 07:16 +0100
                    Re: gmail disaster? Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2016-09-03 18:19 +0100
              Re: gmail disaster? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-03 08:34 +0100
      Re: gmail disaster? dog@gmail.com - 2016-09-03 23:39 +0000
        Re: gmail disaster? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-04 00:25 -0400
          Re: gmail disaster? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-04 09:16 +0100
          Re: gmail disaster? notbob <notbob@nothome.com> - 2016-09-04 17:19 +0000
        Re: gmail disaster? Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2016-09-04 15:41 +1000
          Re: gmail disaster? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-04 09:19 +0100
        Re: gmail disaster? Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> - 2016-09-04 10:22 +0100

#13079 — gmail disaster?

I'm in a legal dispute, and the opponent destroyed my x86 system.
So I bought a new laptop and Vodacom-3G-dongle-subscription.
The Vodongle is incompatible with the Win8.1 laptop!
Although, I twice previously developed scripts to connect Vodongles
via Linux/RPi, and they auto-connected when plugged to M$.
The Voda-shop wants to install the compatible driver for their
3G-dongle to my new laptop. You don't allow me to install programs
to your computer -- which scan your files and send the contents to
me.   What the hell is going on?!

I've tried lynx, links2, midori, dillo, netsurf on my Model-1-RPi,
for handling gmail. None can do a full cycle:.
 login + fetch & save mail/s + delete + compose + send.
Here, I have only a time-charged connection, and must compose off-line.
[This NNTP task is handled by lynx]

Every time I log in to gmail with a different/strange/un-M$-like
'browser' gmail wants a mobile-phone confirmed password change.

I could suspect that my litigation opponent is trying to hak my gmail,
but I seems that the gmail kiddies are causing the problems.

The articles/advice re. non-http-gmail [by curl/imap eg.] are dated,
and it seems there's a global-security-frenzy these days?

When I get the M$ laptop on-line, I'll get a new M$ email account,
and expect similar abuse. Will M$-email accept/tolerate Linux
originated email; since web-based gmail detects your 'browser' type?

How have other RPi users got non-http-gmail working?

== TIA

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#13082

dog@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> How have other RPi users got non-http-gmail working?
> 
Why go through all the pain and hassle, use another mail provider. 

I think gmail is quite good for many people but if you want to use it
in somewhat non-standard ways (i.e.  not from Android, M$, etc.) then
it doesn't always want to co-operate.

There are lots of excellent and very cheap E-Mail providers out there.
If you register your own domain as well you have incredible
flexibility. 

I run all my (and my family's) E-Mail through my own domain at
TsoHost, very simple to run and their support is excellent.

You might also try Gandi, similar sort of service.

There are many, many, others, those are just the two I know fairly
well (UK/Europe based).



-- 
Chris Green
·

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#13089

On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 09:22:06 +0100
Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

> dog@gmail.com wrote:
> > 
> > How have other RPi users got non-http-gmail working?
> >   
> Why go through all the pain and hassle, use another mail provider. 

Because he likes to make life difficult for himself then whinge about
it.

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#13090

On 02/09/2016 17:09, Rob Morley wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 09:22:06 +0100
> Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
>
>> dog@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> How have other RPi users got non-http-gmail working?
>>>
>> Why go through all the pain and hassle, use another mail provider.
>
> Because he likes to make life difficult for himself then whinge about
> it.
>
Indeed he is a recognised troll and should be kf'd.

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#13091

On 02/09/16 18:30, mm0fmf wrote:
> On 02/09/2016 17:09, Rob Morley wrote:
>> On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 09:22:06 +0100
>> Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
>>
>>> dog@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> How have other RPi users got non-http-gmail working?
>>>>
>>> Why go through all the pain and hassle, use another mail provider.
>>
>> Because he likes to make life difficult for himself then whinge about
>> it.
>>
> Indeed he is a recognised troll and should be kf'd.
Anybody on a linux group who still uses gmail probably doesnt use linux 
at all.


-- 
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all 
private property.

Karl Marx

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#13093

The Natural Philosopher wrote:


> Anybody on a linux group who still uses gmail probably doesnt use linux
> at all.
> 
> 
Well, actually, I use Linux almost exclusively.  I run my own mail server 
out of my house for incoming mail, and use an ISP-provided SMTP server for 
outgoing, when I am at home.  But, they provide NO service when I am away.
So, I use gmail for that situation, so I can still send mail while 
travelling.

Jon

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#13094

On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 14:03:23 -0500
Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> wrote:

> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
> 
> > Anybody on a linux group who still uses gmail probably doesnt use linux
> > at all.
> > 
> > 
> Well, actually, I use Linux almost exclusively.  I run my own mail server 
> out of my house for incoming mail, and use an ISP-provided SMTP server
> for outgoing, when I am at home.  But, they provide NO service when I am
> away. So, I use gmail for that situation, so I can still send mail while 
> travelling.

	If that's the problem you're trying to solve then I suggest running
a VPN server on your house LAN (openvpn is good) so that you can effectively
be at home anywhere there's a half decent internet connection. I've been
doing that for years. I use an IMAP server (dovecot) that can only be
reached on the LAN or by VPN and outgoing mail goes through my ISPs relay
wherever I am. I can also easily pick up any files I might have forgotten
to take with me or consign new stuff on safe storage on my ZFS NAS.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN                                      | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#13095

On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 22:38:13 +0100
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 14:03:23 -0500
> Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> wrote:
> 
> > The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> > 
> > Well, actually, I use Linux almost exclusively.  I run my own mail
> > server out of my house for incoming mail, and use an ISP-provided
> > SMTP server for outgoing, when I am at home.  But, they provide NO
> > service when I am away. So, I use gmail for that situation, so I
> > can still send mail while travelling.  
> 
> 	If that's the problem you're trying to solve then I suggest
> 
He didn't say he had a problem that needed solving, he just said that
Gmail can be useful.

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#13096

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 06:06:49 +0100
Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 22:38:13 +0100
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 14:03:23 -0500
> > Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> wrote:
> > 
> > > The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> > > 
> > > Well, actually, I use Linux almost exclusively.  I run my own mail
> > > server out of my house for incoming mail, and use an ISP-provided
> > > SMTP server for outgoing, when I am at home.  But, they provide NO
> > > service when I am away. So, I use gmail for that situation, so I
> > > can still send mail while travelling.  
> > 
> > 	If that's the problem you're trying to solve then I suggest
> > 
> He didn't say he had a problem that needed solving, he just said that
> Gmail can be useful.

	"But, they provide NO service when I am away."

	To my eyes that's a problem that needed solving, and gmail is a
solution. I was just suggesting an alternative and IMHO better one.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN                                      | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#13098

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 07:16:29 +0100
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 06:06:49 +0100
> Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 2 Sep 2016 22:38:13 +0100
> > Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> >   
>  [...]  
>  [...]  
>  [...]  
> > He didn't say he had a problem that needed solving, he just said
> > that Gmail can be useful.  
> 
> 	"But, they provide NO service when I am away."
> 
> 	To my eyes that's a problem that needed solving, and gmail is
> a solution. I was just suggesting an alternative and IMHO better one.
> 
Ah, you meant a problem in need of a /better/ solution, for you.  :-)
I assumed he restricts remote access by choice rather than by necessity.

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#13097

On 02/09/16 20:03, Jon Elson wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>
>> Anybody on a linux group who still uses gmail probably doesnt use linux
>> at all.
>>
>>
> Well, actually, I use Linux almost exclusively.  I run my own mail server
> out of my house for incoming mail, and use an ISP-provided SMTP server for
> outgoing, when I am at home.  But, they provide NO service when I am away.
> So, I use gmail for that situation, so I can still send mail while
> travelling.
>
> Jon
>
??? If you cant arrange to get at your home server remotely, or set up a 
VPS private cloud outside your home firewall, why ever are you not 
running windows?


-- 
“it should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism 
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans, 
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and 
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a 
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,' 
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for 
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet 
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that 
you live neither in Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, nor in the Orwellian 
utopia of 1984.”

Vaclav Klaus

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#13099

>>> How have other RPi users got non-http-gmail working?
>>>
>> Why go through all the pain and hassle, use another mail provider.

Because an email-adr is not a cigarette or a hamburger.
It's a relationship with history, commitment.
Are their any TECHNICAL people here, or only loney social-girlies?!

I'm located in 3rd-world [going 4th] & X86 system stolen &
bought new Win8.1 laptop + Vodacom-dongle.
Vodongle incompatible with Win8.1, so pay for update -- still waiting.

Windows usage is a problem, but RPi + lynx can still do NNTP.
Gmail 'blocks' access, and does "we are looking after your security"
dialogue/dance - mostly in cartoon-form, requiring a continual cycle
of password changes, until you drop-the-ball.

Using RPi with: netsurf & midori [every change of browser to gmail
is problematic, since gmail monitors YOUR computer] indicates that
pop & imap facilities ARE available.

Since these don't require js-capable <PLEASE BUY THE LATEST FACILITIES>
and/or allow "UPDATES" by 3rd parties to YOUR system;
this should remove the problems?

The relevant RFC for <pop-mail> from some years ago is simple.
I modified my Oberon-source in the 90's when the ISP added 
TransmitAuthenticate. For shell script writers, it's a 1 page job.

OF COURSE: google doesn't want this.
Their duty to their share-holders is to capture your attention
 - for sales.

Where are the technical people to confirm this possibility, or
point to lurking problems, which I've over looked.

I want to speak to the engineer, not the sales-girl.

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#13100

On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 23:39:46 -0000 (UTC), dog@gmail.com declaimed the
following:

>
>The relevant RFC for <pop-mail> from some years ago is simple.
>I modified my Oberon-source in the 90's when the ISP added 
>TransmitAuthenticate. For shell script writers, it's a 1 page job.
>
>OF COURSE: google doesn't want this.
>Their duty to their share-holders is to capture your attention
> - for sales.
>
>Where are the technical people to confirm this possibility, or
>point to lurking problems, which I've over looked.
>
>I want to speak to the engineer, not the sales-girl.

	The biggest problem most have with GMAIL is that Google is in the habit
of changing their SSL key every few weeks, rather than every year or two.
And yes, that does imply that one can not just use the old POP3 port 110 to
retrieve mail, nor SMTP port 25 (which most ISPs block when used as
pass-through).

	If your software can't handle the SSL key refresh automatically, it
does cause problems -- I run Eudora on Win7; Eudora support/upgrades
stopped ages ago, with the result that it does not know about current key
agents and requires one to manually approve new keys when GMAIL changes
them {one reason I do not have my GMAIL account configured in Eudora -- the
other being that I only created that account because it was needed for
GooglePlay on my Samsung/Nook tablet}

	If you are looking for a Google technician, you won't find them here.
-- 
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

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#13102

On 04/09/16 05:25, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Sep 2016 23:39:46 -0000 (UTC), dog@gmail.com declaimed the
> following:
>
>>
>> The relevant RFC for <pop-mail> from some years ago is simple.
>> I modified my Oberon-source in the 90's when the ISP added
>> TransmitAuthenticate. For shell script writers, it's a 1 page job.
>>
>> OF COURSE: google doesn't want this.
>> Their duty to their share-holders is to capture your attention
>> - for sales.
>>
>> Where are the technical people to confirm this possibility, or
>> point to lurking problems, which I've over looked.
>>
>> I want to speak to the engineer, not the sales-girl.

Well of course you have been, but rudeness wont get you the answer you 
want, only the one that is available.

To rent a domain name and a VPS, point the mail at the VPS of your 
choice, and set up your won IMAP or POP based server is small beer for a 
linux aficionado. You can even set uop your own authenticated SMTP relay 
as well.

And if Gmail wont allow you to redirect your existing mail to that, 
gmail isn't worth having (I checked, it does..)


Which is almost certainly the case anyway.

<snip reasons that tend to confirm the above statement>


-- 
“It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of 
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people 
who pay no price for being wrong.”

Thomas Sowell

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#13105

On 2016-09-04, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

> 	The biggest problem most have with GMAIL is that Google is in the habit
> of changing their SSL key every few weeks.....

Heaven forbid Gobble should enforce security stds.  ;)

nb

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#13101

dog@gmail.com wrote:

>>>> How have other RPi users got non-http-gmail working?
>>>>
>>> Why go through all the pain and hassle, use another mail provider.
>
>Because an email-adr is not a cigarette or a hamburger.
>It's a relationship with history, commitment.
>Are their any TECHNICAL people here, or only loney social-girlies?!
>
>I'm located in 3rd-world [going 4th] & X86 system stolen &
>bought new Win8.1 laptop + Vodacom-dongle.
>Vodongle incompatible with Win8.1, so pay for update -- still waiting.
>
>Windows usage is a problem, but RPi + lynx can still do NNTP.
>Gmail 'blocks' access, and does "we are looking after your security"
>dialogue/dance - mostly in cartoon-form, requiring a continual cycle
>of password changes, until you drop-the-ball.
>
>Using RPi with: netsurf & midori [every change of browser to gmail
>is problematic, since gmail monitors YOUR computer] indicates that
>pop & imap facilities ARE available.
>
>Since these don't require js-capable <PLEASE BUY THE LATEST FACILITIES>
>and/or allow "UPDATES" by 3rd parties to YOUR system;
>this should remove the problems?
>
>The relevant RFC for <pop-mail> from some years ago is simple.
>I modified my Oberon-source in the 90's when the ISP added 
>TransmitAuthenticate. For shell script writers, it's a 1 page job.
>
>OF COURSE: google doesn't want this.
>Their duty to their share-holders is to capture your attention
> - for sales.
>
>Where are the technical people to confirm this possibility, or
>point to lurking problems, which I've over looked.

Perhaps the "technical people" couldn't see the relevance of almost
everything in your post to the task of using gMail as a POP server.
You didn't even mention POP in your original post. Google explains how
to enable POP for your account here
<https://support.google.com/mail/answer/13273?rd=1>. The client
settings are also there if your email client does not already know
them. You could use mail or mailx in a bash script but I don't see why
you would prefer that to just using Thunderbird (Icedove) or any other
modern email client.
>
>I want to speak to the engineer, not the sales-girl.

If you want to speak to technical support omit your gossip and
"political" opinions from your posts, leave out how you might perform
a task and just specify the problem you want solved. 

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#13103

On 04/09/16 06:41, Gordon Levi wrote:
> dog@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>>>> How have other RPi users got non-http-gmail working?
>>>>>
>>>> Why go through all the pain and hassle, use another mail provider.
>>
>> Because an email-adr is not a cigarette or a hamburger.
>> It's a relationship with history, commitment.
>> Are their any TECHNICAL people here, or only loney social-girlies?!
>>
>> I'm located in 3rd-world [going 4th] & X86 system stolen &
>> bought new Win8.1 laptop + Vodacom-dongle.
>> Vodongle incompatible with Win8.1, so pay for update -- still waiting.
>>
>> Windows usage is a problem, but RPi + lynx can still do NNTP.
>> Gmail 'blocks' access, and does "we are looking after your security"
>> dialogue/dance - mostly in cartoon-form, requiring a continual cycle
>> of password changes, until you drop-the-ball.
>>
>> Using RPi with: netsurf & midori [every change of browser to gmail
>> is problematic, since gmail monitors YOUR computer] indicates that
>> pop & imap facilities ARE available.
>>
>> Since these don't require js-capable <PLEASE BUY THE LATEST FACILITIES>
>> and/or allow "UPDATES" by 3rd parties to YOUR system;
>> this should remove the problems?
>>
>> The relevant RFC for <pop-mail> from some years ago is simple.
>> I modified my Oberon-source in the 90's when the ISP added
>> TransmitAuthenticate. For shell script writers, it's a 1 page job.
>>
>> OF COURSE: google doesn't want this.
>> Their duty to their share-holders is to capture your attention
>> - for sales.
>>
>> Where are the technical people to confirm this possibility, or
>> point to lurking problems, which I've over looked.
>
> Perhaps the "technical people" couldn't see the relevance of almost
> everything in your post to the task of using gMail as a POP server.
> You didn't even mention POP in your original post. Google explains how
> to enable POP for your account here
> <https://support.google.com/mail/answer/13273?rd=1>. The client
> settings are also there if your email client does not already know
> them. You could use mail or mailx in a bash script but I don't see why
> you would prefer that to just using Thunderbird (Icedove) or any other
> modern email client.

He hasn't even got as far as realising that all his guff about 'email 
accounts are my history' is invalidated by the fact as gmail will 
forward his mail to any new address he has set up elsewhere.


So not only can he enable POP access, he can move his mail to an 
entirely new system under his control, and run mail anyway he wanrs and 
still receive mail via gmail.

I am afraid we are talking to the sales girl.



>>
>> I want to speak to the engineer, not the sales-girl.
>
> If you want to speak to technical support omit your gossip and
> "political" opinions from your posts, leave out how you might perform
> a task and just specify the problem you want solved.
>


-- 
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, 
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

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#13104

dog@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> How have other RPi users got non-http-gmail working?
> >>>
> >> Why go through all the pain and hassle, use another mail provider.
> 
> Because an email-adr is not a cigarette or a hamburger.
> It's a relationship with history, commitment.
> Are their any TECHNICAL people here, or only loney social-girlies?!
> 
... and that's the best reason ever for doing what I suggested as you
can keep the domain (and thus your nice, personal, E-Mail address)
whatever happens to your ISP as you own the domain name.

I've had my chris AT isbd.co.uk e-mail for a long, long time through many
different ISPs and hosting services.

-- 
Chris Green
·

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