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Groups > comp.sys.mac.vintage > #1690 > unrolled thread

Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon

Started byvintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole)
First post2026-06-19 18:42 +0100
Last post2026-06-28 00:13 +0100
Articles 18 on this page of 118 — 18 participants

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Contents

  Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon vintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole) - 2026-06-19 18:42 +0100
    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon JJenssen <joemajen@arcor.de> - 2026-06-20 12:30 +0200
      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon vintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole) - 2026-06-20 13:10 +0100
        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-20 14:42 +0100
          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon JJenssen <joemajen@arcor.de> - 2026-06-21 07:51 +0200
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-21 09:35 +0200
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-21 10:29 +0100
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-21 18:10 +0000
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-22 10:16 +1200
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-22 08:13 +0200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-22 10:26 +0100
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-22 14:03 +0000
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-22 17:25 +0100
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-22 20:51 +0000
                          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-23 04:22 +0100
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-22 17:07 +0000
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-22 20:47 +0000
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-23 10:49 +1200
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 01:30 +0000
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-24 12:07 +0200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 11:41 +0100
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-24 18:42 +0000
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-24 19:42 +0000
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 13:25 -0700
                          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:39 +0000
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 21:53 +0100
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-25 01:30 +0000
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 08:29 -0700
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 16:36 +0100
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-24 17:33 +0000
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:13 +0000
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-25 11:26 +0200
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 23:21 +0000
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-26 10:55 +0200
                          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 10:41 +0100
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2026-06-24 21:38 +0000
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:12 +0000
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon vintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole) - 2026-06-21 14:21 +0100
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-21 17:28 +0100
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-21 18:56 +0200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-21 17:38 +0000
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-21 23:36 +0000
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-21 18:15 +0000
    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-24 01:24 +0000
      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-24 17:35 +1200
        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-24 07:45 +0200
          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 11:36 +0100
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 09:35 +1200
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:17 +0000
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 18:24 +1200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-25 10:19 +0100
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-26 01:59 +0000
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:50 +0000
                Retroconning closed-source proprietary software, and wiping the rest (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-25 07:12 +0100
                  Re: Retroconning closed-source proprietary software, and wiping the rest (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 18:32 +1200
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 18:27 +1200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 06:50 +0000
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 19:41 +1200
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-25 11:37 +0200
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-25 18:19 +0100
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 10:01 +0100
              """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-25 06:55 +0100
                Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-25 18:34 +1200
                  Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-26 01:57 +0000
                    Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-26 18:23 +1200
                      Re: """Standard""" software Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 09:37 +0100
                        Re: """Standard""" software Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-27 11:00 +1200
                          Re: """Standard""" software Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-28 08:02 +0100
                            Re: """Standard""" software "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-28 12:51 +0200
                              Re: """Standard""" software c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-29 01:53 -0400
                                Re: """Standard""" software "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-29 10:53 +0200
                                  Re: “Standard” software Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-30 02:48 +0000
                                    Re: “Standard” software Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-30 09:08 +0100
                                      Re: “Standard” software Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-30 18:51 +0000
                    Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-26 18:03 +0000
                      Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-26 12:23 -0700
                        Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-27 11:09 +1200
                          Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-27 18:22 +0000
                            Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-27 19:42 +0000
                            Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-28 10:46 +1200
                              Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-06-28 10:18 +0000
                                Re: """Standard""" software The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-28 11:26 +0100
                                Spreadshi^Heet software (was: Re: """Standard""" software) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-29 08:35 +0100
                                  Re: Spreadshi^Heet software (was: Re: """Standard""" software) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-29 19:51 +1200
                                  Re: Spreadshi^Heet software Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-29 09:28 +0100
                                    Re: Spreadshi^Heet software Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-06-29 10:53 +0200
                                    Re: Spreadshi^Heet software The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-29 12:53 +0100
                              Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-28 18:09 +0000
                                Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-29 10:15 +1200
                                Re: """Standard""" software Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-29 08:24 +0100
                            Re: “Standard” software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 23:03 +0000
                              Re: “Standard” software c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-28 04:13 -0400
                                Re: “Standard” software The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-28 11:04 +0100
                                  Re: “Standard” software c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-29 01:42 -0400
                      Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 00:10 +0000
                        Can be trusted... (Was: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and) Linux Mint Cinnamon) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-06-27 12:53 +0000
                        Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-27 18:22 +0000
                          Re: """Standard""" software (was: Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-27 19:36 +0000
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2026-06-25 15:44 +0000
          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 08:01 -0700
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-24 16:34 +0100
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2026-06-25 15:49 +0000
          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-24 18:16 +0000
      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-06-24 17:15 +0200
        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 01:14 +0000
          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-06-25 18:32 +0200
            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-25 23:22 +0000
              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-06-25 23:40 +0000
                Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-26 09:09 +0100
                  Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-26 18:03 +0000
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-27 00:26 +0100
                    Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-27 15:52 +1200
                      Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-27 04:12 +0000
                        Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-27 09:41 +0100
                          Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-27 18:22 +0000
                            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-27 19:57 +0000
                            Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2026-06-28 10:35 +1200
                              Re: Early-2014 Macbook Air and Linux Mint Cinnamon Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-28 00:13 +0100

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#1724

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-24 16:34 +0100
Message-ID<111gtdn$348m3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1721
On 24/06/2026 16:01, John Ames wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 07:45:57 +0200
> Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> wrote:
> 
>>>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it
>>>> is that Apple runs on its machines.
>>>
>>> Technically, you've got that almost-backwards.
>>>
>>> Linux is a "Unix-like" operating system. MacOS X is built on Darwin
>>> derived from BSD, which is also another Unix-like operating system.
>>> Although neither is true Unix, MacOS X is certified by Unix, while
>>> Linux is not ... so legally MacOS X can call itself Unix and Linux
>>> cannot.  :-p
>>
>> Noone cares about the brand any more.
> 
> Lawrence clearly does.
> 
He should have said 'nobody' cares about the brand, thereby including 
Lawrence
-- 
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

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#1753

Fromscott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter)
Date2026-06-25 15:49 +0000
Message-ID<a6c%R.41188$81a2.17637@fx17.iad>
In reply to#1721
In article <20260624080106.00005d5f@gmail.com>,
John Ames  <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
>Lawrence clearly does.

Placing this in ~/News/KILL will improve your Usenet experience:

/ldo@nz.invalid/f:j

HTH. :)

-- 
  _/_
 / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/         Top-posting!
 \_^_/                            >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

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#1727

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-06-24 18:16 +0000
Message-ID<na2l7fFop6qU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#1717
On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 07:45:57 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

> Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>On 2026-06-24 01:24:17 +0000, Lawrence D´Oliveiro said:
>>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 18:42:03 +0100, scole wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I'm still finding my feet with Linux - there's a few strange quirls
>>>> to it that my Mac-shaped brain is struggling to cope with ...
>>> 
>>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it is
>>> that Apple runs on its machines.
>>
>>Technically, you've got that almost-backwards.
>>
>>Linux is a "Unix-like" operating system. MacOS X is built on Darwin
>>derived from BSD, which is also another Unix-like operating system.
>>Although neither is true Unix, MacOS X is certified by Unix, while Linux
>>is not ... so legally MacOS X can call itself Unix and Linux cannot. 
>>:-p
> 
> Noone cares about the brand any more.

Having used AIX, which meets the Single Unix Specification for UNIX 03 I'm 
not sure being a 'true UNIX' is a recommendation.

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#1722

FromJohn Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com>
Date2026-06-24 17:15 +0200
Message-ID<111gsbe$33sq2$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1714
On 24/06/2026 03:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 18:42:03 +0100, scole wrote:
> 
>> I'm still finding my feet with Linux - there's a few strange quirls
>> to it that my Mac-shaped brain is struggling to cope with ...
> 
> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it is
> that Apple runs on its machines.

In what way?

-- 
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Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/

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#1736

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-06-25 01:14 +0000
Message-ID<111hve8$3e43k$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1722
On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 17:15:58 +0200, John Bokma wrote:

> On 24/06/2026 03:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 18:42:03 +0100, scole wrote:
>>
>>> I'm still finding my feet with Linux - there's a few strange
>>> quirls to it that my Mac-shaped brain is struggling to cope with
>>> ...
>>
>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it
>> is that Apple runs on its machines.
>
> In what way?

One obvious one: a core part of the Unix tradition was separation of
the GUI from the OS kernel. Apple threw that one right out the window.

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#1754

FromJohn Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com>
Date2026-06-25 18:32 +0200
Message-ID<111jl6p$3trjm$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1736
On 25/06/2026 03:14, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 17:15:58 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
> 
>> On 24/06/2026 03:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2026 18:42:03 +0100, scole wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm still finding my feet with Linux - there's a few strange
>>>> quirls to it that my Mac-shaped brain is struggling to cope with
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it
>>> is that Apple runs on its machines.
>>
>> In what way?
> 
> One obvious one: a core part of the Unix tradition was separation of
> the GUI from the OS kernel. Apple threw that one right out the window.

How?

-- 
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Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/

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#1757

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-06-25 23:22 +0000
Message-ID<111kd7r$4v7h$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1754
On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:32:08 +0200, John Bokma wrote:

> On 25/06/2026 03:14, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 17:15:58 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
>>
>>> On 24/06/2026 03:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it
>>>> is that Apple runs on its machines.
>>>
>>> In what way?
>>
>> One obvious one: a core part of the Unix tradition was separation
>> of the GUI from the OS kernel. Apple threw that one right out the
>> window.
>
> How?

By integrating its GUI tightly into its OS kernel.

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#1758

Fromvallor <vallor@vallor.earth>
Date2026-06-25 23:40 +0000
Message-ID<111ke9b$546l$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1757
At Thu, 25 Jun 2026 23:22:35 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:32:08 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
> 
> > On 25/06/2026 03:14, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 17:15:58 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 24/06/2026 03:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it
> >>>> is that Apple runs on its machines.
> >>>
> >>> In what way?
> >>
> >> One obvious one: a core part of the Unix tradition was separation
> >> of the GUI from the OS kernel. Apple threw that one right out the
> >> window.
> >
> > How?
> 
> By integrating its GUI tightly into its OS kernel.

This has already been explained to you.

The OS kernel on a Mac is  Darwin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)

https://www.puredarwin.org/

 ...but you're some kind of concern/Poe troll that is completely
intractable regarding MacOS.

And while you are fond of using the term *nix, there's nothing
wrong with saying "Unix" or "a Unix" to describe POSIX operating
systems like Linux or FreeBSD -- because those are not trademarks.
(Another term of art is "Unix-like".)

https://www.fosslinux.com/44623/top-unix-based-operating-systems.htm

UNIX(r), though, is a trademark.  All-caps, with an (r) to
make sure you know those people Really Mean Business (oh yes).

Now go forth and sin no more.

-- 
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 Mem: 258G
   OS: Linux 7.1.1 D: Mint 22.3 DE: Xfce 4.18 (X11)
   NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090Ti (24G) (610.43.02)
   "A cynic smells flowers and looks for the casket."

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#1762

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-26 09:09 +0100
Message-ID<111lc2v$c7hh$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1758
On 2026-06-26, vallor wrote:

> At Thu, 25 Jun 2026 23:22:35 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:32:08 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
>> 
>> > On 25/06/2026 03:14, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 17:15:58 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 24/06/2026 03:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it
>> >>>> is that Apple runs on its machines.
>> >>>
>> >>> In what way?
>> >>
>> >> One obvious one: a core part of the Unix tradition was separation
>> >> of the GUI from the OS kernel. Apple threw that one right out the
>> >> window.
>> >
>> > How?
>> 
>> By integrating its GUI tightly into its OS kernel.
>
> This has already been explained to you.
>
> The OS kernel on a Mac is  Darwin:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)
>
> https://www.puredarwin.org/
>
>  ...but you're some kind of concern/Poe troll that is completely
> intractable regarding MacOS.
>
> And while you are fond of using the term *nix, there's nothing
> wrong with saying "Unix" or "a Unix" to describe POSIX operating
> systems like Linux or FreeBSD -- because those are not trademarks.
> (Another term of art is "Unix-like".)
>
> https://www.fosslinux.com/44623/top-unix-based-operating-systems.htm
>
> UNIX(r), though, is a trademark.  All-caps, with an (r) to
> make sure you know those people Really Mean Business (oh yes).
>
> Now go forth and sin no more.

But to go Forth, it probably helps to have an Apple PowerPC machine :-P

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#1768

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-06-26 18:03 +0000
Message-ID<na7t7gF6l0rU7@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#1762
On Fri, 26 Jun 2026 09:09:00 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote:

> On 2026-06-26, vallor wrote:
> 
>> At Thu, 25 Jun 2026 23:22:35 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro
>> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:32:08 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
>>> 
>>> > On 25/06/2026 03:14, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 17:15:58 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> On 24/06/2026 03:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it
>>> >>>> is that Apple runs on its machines.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> In what way?
>>> >>
>>> >> One obvious one: a core part of the Unix tradition was separation
>>> >> of the GUI from the OS kernel. Apple threw that one right out the
>>> >> window.
>>> >
>>> > How?
>>> 
>>> By integrating its GUI tightly into its OS kernel.
>>
>> This has already been explained to you.
>>
>> The OS kernel on a Mac is  Darwin:
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)
>>
>> https://www.puredarwin.org/
>>
>>  ...but you're some kind of concern/Poe troll that is completely
>> intractable regarding MacOS.
>>
>> And while you are fond of using the term *nix, there's nothing wrong
>> with saying "Unix" or "a Unix" to describe POSIX operating systems like
>> Linux or FreeBSD -- because those are not trademarks.
>> (Another term of art is "Unix-like".)
>>
>> https://www.fosslinux.com/44623/top-unix-based-operating-systems.htm
>>
>> UNIX(r), though, is a trademark.  All-caps, with an (r) to make sure
>> you know those people Really Mean Business (oh yes).
>>
>> Now go forth and sin no more.
> 
> But to go Forth, it probably helps to have an Apple PowerPC machine :-P

Gforth works fine on Linux x64 distros. Well, as fine as Forth ever 
worked. 

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#1772

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-27 00:26 +0100
Message-ID<111n1rt$t3ii$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1768
On 2026-06-26, rbowman wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Jun 2026 09:09:00 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote:
>
>> On 2026-06-26, vallor wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>> On 24/06/2026 03:24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it
>>>>>>>> is that Apple runs on its machines.
[...]
>>> This has already been explained to you.
>>>
>>> The OS kernel on a Mac is  Darwin:
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)
>>>
>>> https://www.puredarwin.org/
>>>
>>>  ...but you're some kind of concern/Poe troll that is completely
>>> intractable regarding MacOS.
>>>
>>> And while you are fond of using the term *nix, there's nothing wrong
>>> with saying "Unix" or "a Unix" to describe POSIX operating systems like
>>> Linux or FreeBSD -- because those are not trademarks.
>>> (Another term of art is "Unix-like".)
>>>
>>> https://www.fosslinux.com/44623/top-unix-based-operating-systems.htm
>>>
>>> UNIX(r), though, is a trademark.  All-caps, with an (r) to make sure
>>> you know those people Really Mean Business (oh yes).
>>>
>>> Now go forth and sin no more.
>> 
>> But to go Forth, it probably helps to have an Apple PowerPC machine :-P
>
> Gforth works fine on Linux x64 distros. Well, as fine as Forth ever 
> worked. 

Yes, but then you need to boot Linux first.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#1774

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2026-06-27 15:52 +1200
Message-ID<111nhe1$10nmj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1768
On 2026-06-26 18:03:34 +0000, rbowman said:
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2026 09:09:00 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote:
>> On 2026-06-26, vallor wrote:
>>> At Thu, 25 Jun 2026 23:22:35 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>>> <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 25 Jun 2026 18:32:08 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
>>>>> On 25/06/2026 03:14, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jun 2026 17:15:58 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
>>>>>>> On 24/06/2026 03:24, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yeah, Linux is a proper Unix-type system, unlike that whatever it
>>>>>>>> is that Apple runs on its machines.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In what way?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One obvious one: a core part of the Unix tradition was separation
>>>>>> of the GUI from the OS kernel. Apple threw that one right out the
>>>>>> window.
>>>>> 
>>>>> How?
>>>> 
>>>> By integrating its GUI tightly into its OS kernel.
>>> 
>>> This has already been explained to you.
>>> 
>>> The OS kernel on a Mac is  Darwin:
>>> 
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)
>>> 
>>> https://www.puredarwin.org/
>>> 
>>> ...but you're some kind of concern/Poe troll that is completely
>>> intractable regarding MacOS.
>>> 
>>> And while you are fond of using the term *nix, there's nothing wrong
>>> with saying "Unix" or "a Unix" to describe POSIX operating systems like
>>> Linux or FreeBSD -- because those are not trademarks.
>>> (Another term of art is "Unix-like".)
>>> 
>>> https://www.fosslinux.com/44623/top-unix-based-operating-systems.htm
>>> 
>>> UNIX(r), though, is a trademark.  All-caps, with an (r) to make sure
>>> you know those people Really Mean Business (oh yes).
>>> 
>>> Now go forth and sin no more.
>> 
>> But to go Forth, it probably helps to have an Apple PowerPC machine :-P
> 
> Gforth works fine on Linux x64 distros. Well, as fine as Forth ever
> worked.

Gforth also works on MacOS X (Intel and Apple Silicon), as do a lot of 
other Forth options, so you can use a real operating system to create 
apps using an ancient programming language.  :-p

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#1775

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-06-27 04:12 +0000
Message-ID<na90u5Fn14bU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#1774
On Sat, 27 Jun 2026 15:52:33 +1200, Your Name wrote:

> Gforth also works on MacOS X (Intel and Apple Silicon), as do a lot of
> other Forth options, so you can use a real operating system to create
> apps using an ancient programming language.  :-p

The only Apple device I've ever had is an iPod Shuffle that was given to 
me long ago. 

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#1776

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-27 09:41 +0100
Message-ID<111o2b2$14qc4$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1775
On 27/06/2026 05:12, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Jun 2026 15:52:33 +1200, Your Name wrote:
> 
>> Gforth also works on MacOS X (Intel and Apple Silicon), as do a lot of
>> other Forth options, so you can use a real operating system to create
>> apps using an ancient programming language.  :-p
> 
> The only Apple device I've ever had is an iPod Shuffle that was given to
> me long ago.

I had a few power PCS back when I was married - my ex wife was a graphic 
designer weaned on MACs and Quark.

I used one as a daily drive for a year or so. Mac OS-X Tiger I think

Then I moved to linux and never looked back. Terrible machines.

They were essentially computers for people who knew nothing about 
computers, and absolutely didn't want to know.

Even more than Windows there was One True Way™ to use them, and heaven 
forfend if you stepped off the One True Path ...


-- 
“It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of 
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people 
who pay no price for being wrong.”

Thomas Sowell

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#1778

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-06-27 18:22 +0000
Message-ID<FxU%R.1469$Cur5.215@fx45.iad>
In reply to#1776
On 2026-06-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 27/06/2026 05:12, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 27 Jun 2026 15:52:33 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>> 
>>> Gforth also works on MacOS X (Intel and Apple Silicon), as do a lot of
>>> other Forth options, so you can use a real operating system to create
>>> apps using an ancient programming language.  :-p
>> 
>> The only Apple device I've ever had is an iPod Shuffle that was given to
>> me long ago.
>
> I had a few power PCS back when I was married - my ex wife was a graphic 
> designer weaned on MACs and Quark.
>
> I used one as a daily drive for a year or so. Mac OS-X Tiger I think
>
> Then I moved to linux and never looked back. Terrible machines.
>
> They were essentially computers for people who knew nothing about 
> computers, and absolutely didn't want to know.
>
> Even more than Windows there was One True Way™ to use them, and heaven 
> forfend if you stepped off the One True Path ...

My wife has drunk the Kool-Aid - she has a Macbook, an iPad, and an iPhone.
The Macbook's web browser has started getting slow and cranky - she went
to the Apple store and they told her that she needs a new Macbook because
her existing one is no longer secure - something about software updates
not being available until she takes another $3000 step on the upgrade
treadmill.  For now she'll just use it for computing applications that
don't need bleeding-edge web security, or apps that pose as much of a
risk as the ones they claim to avoid.  She uses the iPad and iPhone for
just about everything anyway.

My impression of Apple gear on the few times I use it is that it feels
less like I'm using it than it's using me.  Fortunately I discovered
that I can still open a terminal window and use rsync to transfer files
to and from my Linux boxes.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  No artificial
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  intelligence was
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  used in the creation
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  of this post.

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#1783

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-06-27 19:57 +0000
Message-ID<naao92F3a8oU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#1778
On Sat, 27 Jun 2026 18:22:29 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> My wife has drunk the Kool-Aid - she has a Macbook, an iPad, and an
> iPhone.

My ex has an iPhone. I don't think there was Kool-Aid involved as much as 
ubiquitous advertising, product placement, and Apple stores. She also has 
a glucose monitoring system which has an app for Android. Like the company 
I worked for they may have decided jumping through the hoops to get an app 
into the Apple store wasn't worth the trouble for a very limited audience 
so she has a separate monitor.

It must be sturdy since I gather it has had a hard life. She isn't as 
prone to throwing things in her older years but it gets dropped a lot.

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#1784

FromYour Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date2026-06-28 10:35 +1200
Message-ID<111pj6u$38lil$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1778
On 2026-06-27 18:22:29 +0000, Charlie Gibbs said:
> On 2026-06-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 27/06/2026 05:12, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Sat, 27 Jun 2026 15:52:33 +1200, Your Name wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Gforth also works on MacOS X (Intel and Apple Silicon), as do a lot of
>>>> other Forth options, so you can use a real operating system to create
>>>> apps using an ancient programming language.  :-p
>>> 
>>> The only Apple device I've ever had is an iPod Shuffle that was given to
>>> me long ago.
>> 
>> I had a few power PCS back when I was married - my ex wife was a graphic
>> designer weaned on MACs and Quark.
>> 
>> I used one as a daily drive for a year or so. Mac OS-X Tiger I think
>> 
>> Then I moved to linux and never looked back. Terrible machines.
>> 
>> They were essentially computers for people who knew nothing about
>> computers, and absolutely didn't want to know.
>> 
>> Even more than Windows there was One True Way™ to use them, and heaven
>> forfend if you stepped off the One True Path ...
> 
> My wife has drunk the Kool-Aid - she has a Macbook, an iPad, and an 
> iPhone. The Macbook's web browser has started getting slow and cranky - 
> she went to the Apple store and they told her that she needs a new 
> Macbook because her existing one is no longer secure - something about 
> software updates not being available

A web browser is just a web browser. The app itself can't get slower 
than it was originally, except if you've got a ton of bookmarks or keep 
lots of windows / tabs open all the time.

If your storage drive is nearly full up (which isn't difficult with 
Apple's stingy drive sizes in the off-the-shelf models), then the 
computer can get slow as it tries to find / make room for temporary 
files, page swapping RAM, etc. Simply getting rid of some files (either 
delete them or transfer them to external drives) will help - one place 
to check is the Downloads folder, where most people keep a lot of 
garbage they don't need, including multiple copies of stuff. At worst, 
do a backup and then reinstall the OS from fresh, only transferring 
back the files you actually need. Or, if you're really nitpicky, 
swapping a hard drive to a SSD will make it run faster, although most 
more recent models have the drives soldered in, so that would mean 
using an external SSD as a boot drive through whichever is the fastest 
connection port type (Firewire, Thunderbolt, USB-3.

A "cranky" web browser may be too old for the websites you want to use. 
Simply change to a more up-to-date web browser. Firefox lasts longer 
than Safari.

Security updates, they're rather pointless, unless you tend to do lots 
of stupid things, such as visiting porn or pirate websites. Otherwise 
there is no real malware to worry about, just lots of theoretical 
reports published by the companies that sell anti-malware apps - I've 
been using Apple devices since the days of the Apple II, personally and 
professionally, and have NEVER come across any Mac malware in the wild, 
and that includes helping complete novices who would blindly click on 
all sorts of weird pop-ups and use stupidly simple passwords. I used my 
own old PowerPC Mac for about 25 years before it died with a 
motherboard failure, so it was well past any updates. So as long as the 
computer still does what is needed, there's no actual reason to get a 
new one - and if you do really need a new one, then Apple's refurbished 
store is a cheaper way, or the educational discount if you are or know 
a teacher / student.




> until she takes another $3000 step on the upgrade treadmill.  For now 
> she'll just use it for computing applications that don't need 
> bleeding-edge web security, or apps that pose as much of a risk as the 
> ones they claim to avoid.  She uses the iPad and iPhone for just about 
> everything anyway.
> 
> My impression of Apple gear on the few times I use it is that it feels 
> less like I'm using it than it's using me.  Fortunately I discovered 
> that I can still open a terminal window and use rsync to transfer files 
> to and from my Linux boxes.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1787

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-06-28 00:13 +0100
Message-ID<111plef$38rge$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1784
On 2026-06-27, Your Name wrote:

> On 2026-06-27 18:22:29 +0000, Charlie Gibbs said:
>> On 2026-06-27, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 27/06/2026 05:12, rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> The only Apple device I've ever had is an iPod Shuffle that was given to
>>>> me long ago.
>>>
>>> I had a few power PCS back when I was married - my ex wife was a graphic
>>> designer weaned on MACs and Quark.
>>>
>>> I used one as a daily drive for a year or so. Mac OS-X Tiger I think
>>>
>>> Then I moved to linux and never looked back. Terrible machines.
>>>
>>> They were essentially computers for people who knew nothing about
>>> computers, and absolutely didn't want to know.
>>>
>>> Even more than Windows there was One True Way™ to use them, and heaven
>>> forfend if you stepped off the One True Path ...
>>
>> My wife has drunk the Kool-Aid - she has a Macbook, an iPad, and an
>> iPhone. The Macbook's web browser has started getting slow and
>> cranky - 
>> she went to the Apple store and they told her that she needs a new
>> Macbook because her existing one is no longer secure - something
>> about software updates not being available
>
> A web browser is just a web browser. The app itself can't get slower
> than it was originally, except if you've got a ton of bookmarks or
> keep lots of windows / tabs open all the time.
[...]
> A "cranky" web browser may be too old for the websites you want to
> use. Simply change to a more up-to-date web browser. Firefox lasts
> longer than Safari.

If you update it, it's not the same that it once was, so it can perform
worse, or better. It can use more or less resources. I guess the trend
in the past decade has been to perform worse and use more memory, even
letting alone the issue that sites themselves sometimes use excessive JS
frameworks that are heavy and do silly things like requiring 3D
acceleration, which is a recipe for performance disaster unless you're
on, I don't know, something comparable to a gaming rig? Or something
that at least is not going to do any software emulation of 3D features?


A significant change was when Microsoft dropped IE6 support. That was
followed by a boom in web incompatibility. Not because a lot of people
were using IE6, but because a lot more browsers benefited from sites and
frameworks still being IE6-compatible.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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