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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #133949 > unrolled thread

Trivia Pixar computers

Started byJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
First post2020-08-10 04:52 -0400
Last post2020-08-17 08:59 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 146 — 10 participants

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  Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-10 04:52 -0400
    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-10 08:02 -0400
      Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-11 02:49 -0400
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-11 07:13 +0000
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-11 14:04 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-11 20:39 +0000
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-11 19:22 -0400
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-11 09:39 -0400
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-11 09:50 -0700
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-11 14:08 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-11 20:37 +0000
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-11 17:02 -0700
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-12 12:27 +0000
                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-12 08:09 -0700
                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-12 21:29 +0000
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-12 14:34 -0700
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 20:25 -0400
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-12 22:23 -0400
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 22:43 -0400
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-12 19:52 -0700
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-13 04:26 +0000
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-13 02:44 -0400
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-13 08:10 +0000
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-13 19:15 -0400
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-13 19:47 -0400
                                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-14 00:33 +0000
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-14 03:40 +0000
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2020-08-17 08:45 -0400
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-13 09:25 -0400
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-13 13:39 -0700
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-13 19:19 -0400
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-13 23:21 +0000
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-13 19:47 -0400
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-14 00:35 +0000
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-14 03:43 +0000
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-13 04:24 +0000
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-11 19:22 -0400
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-11 16:58 -0700
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-12 12:32 +0000
                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-12 08:10 -0700
                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-12 21:32 +0000
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-12 14:36 -0700
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 20:25 -0400
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-12 22:29 -0400
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 22:43 -0400
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-13 04:29 +0000
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 08:44 -0400
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-16 08:25 -0400
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-16 17:11 +0000
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-17 09:14 -0400
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-17 17:43 +0000
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-16 14:17 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-16 19:00 +0000
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-16 21:09 +0000
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-17 01:14 +0000
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-17 07:10 -0400
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-17 21:45 +0000
                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-18 11:02 -0400
                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-18 21:01 -0400
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 01:30 +0000
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-18 18:39 -0700
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 05:57 +0000
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-19 00:39 -0700
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 10:00 +0000
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 06:34 -0400
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-19 10:57 -0700
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 20:29 +0000
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 16:49 -0400
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 17:00 -0400
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-19 21:05 +0000
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-20 03:36 +0000
                                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-19 21:28 -0700
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-19 10:56 -0700
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 00:32 -0400
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Krzysztof Mitko <invalid@kmitko.at.list.dot.pl> - 2020-08-21 13:45 +0200
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-16 16:13 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-16 21:23 +0000
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-17 09:37 -0400
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-17 17:35 +0000
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-17 13:46 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-17 09:27 -0400
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-17 17:48 +0000
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-17 14:56 -0400
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-17 15:21 -0400
                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-18 18:05 -0400
                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 00:32 -0400
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-19 07:14 +0000
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 06:34 -0400
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 05:58 -0400
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 10:11 +0000
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 16:45 -0400
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 17:00 -0400
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 18:38 -0400
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 18:58 -0400
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 23:51 -0400
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-20 00:27 -0400
                                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-20 06:12 +0000
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-20 08:25 +0000
                                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-22 21:39 -0400
                                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-22 21:55 -0400
                                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-22 23:06 -0400
                                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-22 23:48 -0400
                                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-23 22:36 -0700
                                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-23 06:22 +0000
                                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-23 04:41 -0400
                                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-23 06:42 -0400
                                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-23 11:24 +0000
                                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-23 19:33 -0400
                                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-23 21:11 -0400
                                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-24 13:11 +0000
                                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-23 06:21 +0000
                                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-23 04:34 -0400
                                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-23 06:42 -0400
                                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-23 19:06 -0400
                                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-23 23:31 +0000
                                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-23 21:11 -0400
                                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-23 11:19 +0000
                                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-23 06:42 -0400
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 06:34 -0400
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-19 19:24 +0000
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 16:35 -0400
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-19 21:01 +0000
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 18:58 -0400
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 20:42 +0000
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-19 21:21 +0000
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 18:41 -0400
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 18:58 -0400
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-20 03:31 +0000
      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-16 08:03 -0400
    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Calum <com.gmail@nospam.scottishwildcat> - 2020-08-10 14:16 +0100
      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-08-11 10:04 +1200
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-11 07:14 +0000
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-16 08:31 -0400
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-16 17:13 +0000
    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-10 08:20 -0700
      Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-11 03:07 -0400
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-11 17:12 -0700
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-12 00:59 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-11 22:23 -0700
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-12 19:28 -0400
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 20:25 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-12 12:37 +0000
    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-16 07:54 -0400
      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-16 17:06 +0000
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-16 14:17 -0400
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-17 08:59 -0400

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#134068

FromBud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com>
Date2020-08-17 09:27 -0400
Message-ID<FAv_G.357851$AN2.252761@fx46.iad>
In reply to#134059
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:

> On 2020-08-16 08:25, Bud Frede wrote:
>
>> At the time that I was given a copy of OPENSTEP, there wasn't a NeXTSTEP
>> being sold. OPENSTEP was the product and it was what they called the
>> OS. 
> OPENstep was not an operating system, but t came from NextStep.

Funny how the box said "OPENSTEP" and it provided an OS, none of which
was labeled NeXTSTEP.

>
> Apple bought NeXT and resurrrected NEXTStep because it needed a core
> operating system that supported multitasking etc.   It used the OpenStep
> improvments made since NexTSTEP was stopped, and also ported the MacOS
> classic APIs to the powerPC version that would be commercialised as OS-X.

Each of those sentences contains some things that are true, but by the
end of the sentence you're wrong. :-)

>
> A lot fo the OS-X operating systems and default applcations such as
> Preview came from NexTStep/openStep and those were already available on
> a number of CPU platforms.

Mail.app was one of them. I remember that my first e-mail in it was "from"
Steve Jobs and contained his digitized signature. 

I'm aware of what came from OPENSTEP and what didn't. I used OPENSTEP.

I do have to hand it to the people at Apple and those Jobs brought from
NeXT though. OPENSTEP was not a speed demon, and Rhapsody and then the
first several versions of Mac OS X were rather sluggish. A lot of people
at the time were saying that it was just something you had to accept
with the Mach kernel. They got beyond that and made Mac OS X / OS X /
MacOS perform very well.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134073

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-08-17 17:48 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrjlgo4.1s09.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#134068
In message <FAv_G.357851$AN2.252761@fx46.iad> Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:

>> On 2020-08-16 08:25, Bud Frede wrote:
>>
>>> At the time that I was given a copy of OPENSTEP, there wasn't a NeXTSTEP
>>> being sold. OPENSTEP was the product and it was what they called the
>>> OS. 
>> OPENstep was not an operating system, but t came from NextStep.

> Funny how the box said "OPENSTEP" and it provided an OS, none of which
> was labeled NeXTSTEP.

Uh, I don't think so. OpenStep ran ON an OS. Like Windows NT. Or
Solaris. I think you are misremembering.

> Each of those sentences contains some things that are true, but by the
> end of the sentence you're wrong. :-)

That is the usual JF dance. Stack up errors until you can make an absurd
conclusion.

-- 
and I swear it happened just like this: / a sigh, a cry, a hungry
	kiss, the Gates of Love they budged an inch / I can't say much
	has happened since / but CLOSING TIME

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134074

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-08-17 14:56 -0400
Message-ID<fpA_G.160871$hQ4.47832@fx39.iad>
In reply to#134068
On 2020-08-17 09:27, Bud Frede wrote:

> Funny how the box said "OPENSTEP" and it provided an OS, none of which
> was labeled NeXTSTEP.


Read up a bit more:

NeXT created NeXTStep.
Upon existing the hardware business, it unbundled the API from the OS
and called the API/apps: OpenStep.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStep
"OpenStep is a defunct object-oriented application programming interface
(API) specification for a legacy object-oriented operating system, with
the basic goal of offering a NeXTSTEP-like environment on non-NeXTSTEP
operating systems. "

OPenStep was available on Sun's Solaris as well as Windows NT.  There
was also Openstep for Enterprise which had been sold as a
programming/application envirnment to some large corporations.

The important additional bit I had not read:
NeXT also ported OpenSTEP back to NeXTSTEP, and rebranded it as :
"OpenSTEP for Mach."

So what you saw was really OpenStep for Mach.

And what Apple used was in fact OpenStep for Mach, nt NextStep.
(Original NeXT opperating system core, but updated API, apps etc)


Also of note:
Rhapsody was Openstep for Mach, with the port to PowerPC completed and
the x86 version available to developpers.  But poductized only on PowerPC.

OS-X saw the changes to the windows server (Quartz). added backward
compatibility with Classic (adding Carbon etc) and that was done only to
PowerPC. This included the app that could boot MacOS 9 and run apps it it.


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134075

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-17 15:21 -0400
Message-ID<170820201521093494%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#134074
In article <fpA_G.160871$hQ4.47832@fx39.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> 
> OS-X saw the changes to the windows server (Quartz). added backward
> compatibility with Classic (adding Carbon etc) and that was done only to
> PowerPC. This included the app that could boot MacOS 9 and run apps it it.

classic and carbon are not the same. 

carbon existed on both powerpc and intel, the latter done in secret.

classic was only powerpc, for obvious reasons.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134080

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-08-18 18:05 -0400
Message-ID<NgY_G.353792$PN2.344016@fx48.iad>
In reply to#134075
On 2020-08-17 15:21, nospam wrote:

> classic and carbon are not the same. 

But both are part of work to turn Rhapsody (aka: Openstep on Mach) into
an Apple branded product with classic Mac look/compatibility.

Openstep on Mach (aka: Nextstep with updated API from the Openstep
developments) had 0 compatibility with existing Mac applications.


> carbon existed on both powerpc and intel, the latter done in secret.

Carbon was removed in Catalina. part of the discontinuance of 32 bit
support. So it was obbviously ported to Intel.

However. while you claim it was always there, developped in secret, the
"always" is not proven.

Rhapsody was released to developpers  on both Intel and PowerPC. So this
indicates Apple had completed the port to PowerPC at that point and that
Openstep on Mach (rebadged as Rhapsody) was still available on x86 as it
had been in the past.


However OS-X Server 1.0 was released only on PowerPC and included the
"Blue box" bootable Mac OS 9 to run classic apps. So you would have to
agree that at that point, OS-X Server 1.0 had PowerPC-only stuff on it.

Between that and release of OS-X, Apple added a lot of classic Mac APIs
like Carbon as well as various additions such as Apple Talk, Apple File
Server etc.   I don't know if HFS was ported at the Rhapsody stage, OS-X
Server or OS-X (obviouly, it was ready for OS-X).

You contend that Apple continuously built OIS-X on both PowerpC and x86.

I say that after Rhapsody, work could have been done only on PowerPC in
order to get this to market faster. Rememger that prior to Jobs, Apple
had failed a few times in trying to get a modernized MacOS to market.
This doesn't mean that the core of the OS wouldn't boot on x86. It just
means that not all that was part of OS-X was there.

It should also be noted that NeXTSTEP was written in Objective C, while
MacOS was in C. After release of OS-X, much of the ex-MacOS stuff such
as Carbon was reworked extensively to better integrate into the new
underlying operating system and new window manager and make it run faster.

I suspect that it was during this rework that tiem was spent making sure
it was bi-endian and would built on x86.  The first port from MacOS to
OS-X was quick and dirty to make it work. (it was not originally planned
to be ported).

Appletalk and OpenTransport did get ported to x86 but didn't last long.
I assume that they were easy to compile but interfaced very poorly with
the underlying OS.


Note that the major rework of Carbon did not involve upgrading it to 64
bits and it remained at 32 till its removal at Catalina. So the rework
would have happened prior to the move to 64 bits which happened just
before the move to Intel.

Also of note: Apple rewrote much of OS-X from Objective C to Swift in
recent years, so this likely means there is little to no code left from
the original MacOS.


Of the portions of MacOS that were ported to OS-X initially, I am not
sure how much remains. HFS+ obviously, and there is still support for
AFP (but not updated to support APFS, so likely still legacy code). HFS+
might have been rewritten.

In fact, one question would now become how much of OpoenSTEP remains
since much of the APIs have been rewritten in SWIFT.  But the Drwin
layer is likely still quite similar.

Remember that the goal was to get a new OS out fast, so when Apple
wanted to productize OS-X, it wouldn't have spent time going though all
the MacOS code to ensure it could compile on x86. It was busy enough
maming it fit in NEXTSTEP with its Objective C argument passing
standards that were different from C.


This is why I think there was a gap in time between first verion of OS-X
and the time where all the components that originated on MacOS could be
built on an x86 version of OS-X.  (but during which, OS-X itself could
be built without those components).

Note that many of the "built-in" apps on OS-X came from openSTEP and not
MacOS. So a build of OS-X on x86 would include a lot of the stuff that
you expect on OS-X even if it lacked the ports from legacy MacOS.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134085

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-19 00:32 -0400
Message-ID<190820200032159996%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#134080
In article <NgY_G.353792$PN2.344016@fx48.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> 
> > classic and carbon are not the same. 
> 
> But both are part of work to turn Rhapsody (aka: Openstep on Mach) into
> an Apple branded product with classic Mac look/compatibility.

both existed on powerpc macs.

obviously, classic could not exist on the intel platform without a
shitload of additional effort, which could not be justified. when intel
macs were introduced, there was no classic, nor was it needed. 

> Openstep on Mach (aka: Nextstep with updated API from the Openstep
> developments) had 0 compatibility with existing Mac applications.

nobody said it did.

> > carbon existed on both powerpc and intel, the latter done in secret.
> 
> Carbon was removed in Catalina. part of the discontinuance of 32 bit
> support. So it was obbviously ported to Intel.

that was more than 20 years later.

> However. while you claim it was always there, developped in secret, the
> "always" is not proven.

apple has publicly stated that's exactly what they did.



> 
> It should also be noted that NeXTSTEP was written in Objective C, while
> MacOS was in C.

it should be noted that you are once again talking out your butt.

while it's true that much of nextstep was written in objective-c, not
all of it was. 

classic mac os was written in a mix of pascal, c, c++, 68k assembly and
powerpc assembly, depending on which part and when.



> Note that the major rework of Carbon did not involve upgrading it to 64
> bits and it remained at 32 till its removal at Catalina. So the rework
> would have happened prior to the move to 64 bits which happened just
> before the move to Intel.

false.

carbon64 was a work in progress with developer betas available just
prior to the wwdc when it was killed off.

<https://www.macrumors.com/2007/06/13/leopard-drops-carbon-64-bit-suppor
t/>
  Developers at WWDC are realizing that Steve Jobs made a 
  purposeful omission when he didn't include Carbon in Leopard's
  list of 64-bit compatible libraries at this year's WWDC keynote.

  At last year's keynote, Apple had claimed that both Carbon and 
  Cocoa would be 64-bit, adding to the 64-bit fundamentals that 
  Tiger had laid. A photo from last year's presentation, courtesy of
  Engadget:


> Also of note: Apple rewrote much of OS-X from Objective C to Swift in
> recent years,

some parts have been, but it's a stretch to claim 'much of os-x' has
been rewritten in swift. 


> so this likely means there is little to no code left from
> the original MacOS.

given that the original macos was written in pascal and 68k assembly,
that would be a very safe assumption.

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#134087

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2020-08-19 07:14 +0000
Message-ID<hq41raFajnnU24@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#134085
On Aug 18, 2020 at 9:32:15 PM MST, "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <NgY_G.353792$PN2.344016@fx48.iad>, JF Mezei
> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> 
>>  
>>  > classic and carbon are not the same. 
>>  
>>  But both are part of work to turn Rhapsody (aka: Openstep on Mach) into
>>  an Apple branded product with classic Mac look/compatibility.
> 
> both existed on powerpc macs.
> 
> obviously, classic could not exist on the intel platform without a
> shitload of additional effort, which could not be justified. when intel
> macs were introduced, there was no classic, nor was it needed. 

It is understandable why it went away -- but backward compatibility is not a
bad thing.

In the long run though it does allow a platform to move forward better. 

...

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134092

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-19 06:34 -0400
Message-ID<190820200634223250%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#134087
In article <hq41raFajnnU24@mid.individual.net>, Snit
<usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> >>  > classic and carbon are not the same. 
> >>  
> >>  But both are part of work to turn Rhapsody (aka: Openstep on Mach) into
> >>  an Apple branded product with classic Mac look/compatibility.
> > 
> > both existed on powerpc macs.
> > 
> > obviously, classic could not exist on the intel platform without a
> > shitload of additional effort, which could not be justified. when intel
> > macs were introduced, there was no classic, nor was it needed. 
> 
> It is understandable why it went away -- but backward compatibility is not a
> bad thing.

there was plenty of backward compatibility, however, nothing lasts
forever.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134089

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-08-19 05:58 -0400
Message-ID<TI6%G.94055$355.57871@fx27.iad>
In reply to#134085
On 2020-08-19 00:32, nospam wrote:

> obviously, classic could not exist on the intel platform without a
> shitload of additional effort, 

Sheepshaver could have been improved with tighter integration in the
file system. The advantage is that Booting "classic" in it is self
contained and not dependent on classic libraries existing and being
updated on OS-X so less maintenance needed by Apple.

But as the Mac picked up momemtum and mreo and mreo applicatiosn were
returning to the platform, the need to maintain "classic" went away.


>> Openstep on Mach (aka: Nextstep with updated API from the Openstep
>> developments) had 0 compatibility with existing Mac applications.
> 
> nobody said it did.

One of the apologists stated that Rhapsody had everything on both intel
and powerpc. I had to point out that some of the MacOs classic stuff
(such as Carbon) was ported after that point when OS-X Server was only
on PowerPC as a product.


>> However. while you claim it was always there, developped in secret, the
>> "always" is not proven.
> 
> apple has publicly stated that's exactly what they did.

One needs to parse these PR statements with a legal eye.

Apple started with OpenStep for Mach. (Nextstep). Rhapsody was really
NextStep 5. and I beleive OS-X Server 1 was Nexstep 5.5
Since it inherited a bi-endian OS, completing the port to PowerPC was
easy, and continuing to build that code base on either PowerpC or x86
was easy.

Not sure if Apple re-implemented HFS on Nextstep (it has HFS support
from circa 1992. Appletalk which had been supported by NextSTEP was not
available on Rhaosody. or OS-X Server (neither were serial ports)

The move to OS-X after that involved the porting of many items such as
Carbon, Appletalk etc from the classic MacOS to OS-X. At that point,
Apple had already stopped supporting x86 boots. (publically).

Any work on the OS-X (formerly NextSTEP) would implicitely be done
bi-endian since it was alrteady. So there is no reason to doubt that
Apple continued to test build OS-X on x86. But that does not means that
it test built **ALL** of OS-X at every stage between the time of
PowerPOC only OS-X Server 1.0 and Tiger which was first version for Intel.

The NEXTStep portion of OS-X already had plenty of the apps (Mail,
Textedit terminal etc) that are now standard fare.

And obviously much (but not all) of what was ported from MacOS to OS-X
was availae on Tiger for Intel.


What Apple has NOT said is that  it ported all the MacOS bits to Intel
from day 1.  The original port of Carbon to NextSTEP was hard and
required a second major update. Appletalk was ported to OS-X (But only
after OSX Server 1,0) and made it to iNtel before support was pulled.

So my take is that in the OS-X Server 1,0 to OS-X Cheetah transition,
all of what was added may not have been qualified to build on Intel and
that came later.

During this time, they could still build OS-X on Intel as they did
before. but it wouldn't include biuts from classic that hadn't been
qualified or updated where necessary.

Cheetah, Puma, Jaquar, Panther and Tiger (initial) did not have
productized Intel support. (Tiger got it midway in its lifetime)


I think you are being way too gullible if you think that 199% of OS-X
was available on both platforms all along. there are costs to porting
old M'acOS Classic software to OS-X (Nextstep) and it doesn't mean an
automatic update of code to be bi-endian.


What I am curious though is that at that time, x86 booted from ancient
BIOS. Apple would have had to find a way to get BIOS to recognize HFS as
being bootable. (from what I read, it look at first block on volume).

So when Apple created Rhapsody, it would have had to do actual work to
support the combination of Intel, BIOS and HFS boot drive. (work that
had to be reviewed for the official launch on Intel when chips then
worked on EFI and required GPT partitions.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134091

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-08-19 10:11 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrjpull.c1a.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#134089
In message <TI6%G.94055$355.57871@fx27.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2020-08-19 00:32, nospam wrote:
>>> Openstep on Mach (aka: Nextstep with updated API from the Openstep
>>> developments) had 0 compatibility with existing Mac applications.
>> 
>> nobody said it did.

> One of the apologists stated that Rhapsody had everything on both intel
> and powerpc.

No one said that.

>>> However. while you claim it was always there, developped in secret, the
>>> "always" is not proven.
>> 
>> apple has publicly stated that's exactly what they did.

> One needs to parse these PR statements with a legal eye.

No, you are the only delusional shitbag who thinks Apple lies. You are
an idiot FUDster who continued to be immune to WIDELY reported facts
from multiple sources.

> Apple started with OpenStep for Mach. (Nextstep). Rhapsody was really
> NextStep 5.

No. You are making shit up again. This is simply not true.

> and I beleive OS-X Server 1 was Nexstep 5.5

More made up bullshit.

> Not sure if Apple re-implemented HFS on Nextstep (it has HFS support
> from circa 1992. Appletalk which had been supported by NextSTEP was not
> available on Rhaosody. or OS-X Server (neither were serial ports)

More bullshit. 

Mac OS X Server Getting Started:
"MacOSX Server offers PostScript-compatible print spooling and job
accounting for print jobs submitted using the Line Printer Remote (LPR)
protocol, the industry-standard Transmission Control Protocol (TCP)
protocol, the Windows SMB/CIFS protocol, and AppleTalk. The server
supports both PostScript and non-PostScript print spooling using the
Internet Printing Protocol (IPP)."

I ran Mac OS X Server for several years, and yes, it supported
AppleTalk.

And of course, Macs have and had serial ports. What do you think the S
in USB stands for?

Dipshit.

> What Apple has NOT said is that  it ported all the MacOS bits to Intel
> from day 1.

What Apple HAS said is that they maintained an Intel version of the
current OS X all along.

-- 
Cause love's such an old fashioned word
And love dares you to care for the people on the
Edge of the night, and love dares you to change
Our way of caring about ourselves,
This is our last dance This is ourselves.
Under Pressure.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134101

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-08-19 16:45 -0400
Message-ID<0cg%G.160630$r25.127362@fx08.iad>
In reply to#134091
Correction from previous post:
OSX-Server 1,0 was Rhapsody 5.3 not 5.5

Rhapsody 5.0: Rhapsody Developer Release
Rhapsody 5.1: Rhapsody Developer Release 2
Rhapsody 5.2: -not released-
Rhapsody 5.3: Mac OS X Server 1.0
Rhapsody 5.4: Mac OS X Server 1.0.1
Rhapsody 5.5: Mac OS X Server 1.0.2
Rhapsody 5.6: Mac OS X Server 1.2 or 1.2v3



On 2020-08-19 06:11, Lewis wrote:

> Mac OS X Server Getting Started:
> "MacOSX Server offers PostScript-compatible print spooling and job
> accounting for print jobs submitted using the Line Printer Remote (LPR)
> protocol, the industry-standard Transmission Control Protocol (TCP)
> protocol, the Windows SMB/CIFS protocol, and AppleTalk. The server
> supports both PostScript and non-PostScript print spooling using the
> Internet Printing Protocol (IPP)."

Rhapsody Installation Manual from Apple. It confirms Appletalk was NOt
present. So if it was in OS-X Server (5.3) it shows it was added between
5.0 and 5.3

> https://512pixels.net/downloads/OS-X-docs/Pre-Release/Rhapsody%201%20Installation%20Manual.pdf


The point is that the Appletalk stack came from Apple and not the
Appletalk from the early 1990s that NEXSTEP had put in.


BTW, NeXTSTEP also came with many licenced software, not just Display
Postscript, but also the Sybase SQL Server. Apple worked to remove any
licence/royalty encumbered framework from NextSTEP to create Rhapsody/OS-X.


> What Apple HAS said is that they maintained an Intel version of the
> current OS X all along.

The statement from Apple just says that *a* build on Intel continued all
along. It does not state that such a build contained all the same
frameworks as the productized version on PowerPC prior to Tiger.

Would you agress that a build on x86 would not include the "Blue box"
Classic boot application/environment?
If you agree that the build on x86 did not necessarily include all the
same components as a build on PowerPc which was productized, then you do
not disagree with what I say.

You also need a reality check: Apple was coming out of near bankruptcy.
What was already bootable on x86 didn't cost anything to Apple. But what
wasn't bootable on x86 would have costed Apple money to assign
programmers to go through the code and update it and would have yielded
no revenue at all.

Once OS-X was up and generating revenues, then Apple starrted to spend
time fine tuning it, at which point cleaning up code such as Carbon to
make it more efficient could also icnlude "btw , ensure it is bi-endian".

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134103

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-19 17:00 -0400
Message-ID<190820201700465097%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#134101
In article <0cg%G.160630$r25.127362@fx08.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> What was already bootable on x86 didn't cost anything to Apple. But what
> wasn't bootable on x86 would have costed Apple money to assign
> programmers to go through the code and update it and would have yielded
> no revenue at all.

the same programmers that wrote the powerpc code also wrote the x86
code, without even realizing it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134108

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-08-19 18:38 -0400
Message-ID<VRh%G.156551$I15.113313@fx36.iad>
In reply to#134103
On 2020-08-19 17:00, nospam wrote:

> the same programmers that wrote the powerpc code also wrote the x86
> code, without even realizing it.


Unless you know that MacOS from the Lisa days were designed to be
bi-endian, you cannot state that any code Apple used from MacOS to be
ported to OS-X was bi-endian by nature.

And you cannot state that the last minute decision to port framerowrks
such as Carbon involved spending the time right off the bat to ensure
bi-endianness. They would have been busy enough to just hook it to
NEXTSTEP/Objective C.


You can compile it without errors, but you still need to validate it
will work and not crash. In the end, you still need to go through it
with a fine comb to catch any endian-sensitive code in it.  This takes
time and human resources (aka: money). If you are iun a hurry to get
OS)X out with unplanned additions such as Carbon, you get it up and
urnning on PowerPC and worry about x86 later.







[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134112

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-19 18:58 -0400
Message-ID<190820201858399461%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#134108
In article <VRh%G.156551$I15.113313@fx36.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> 
> > the same programmers that wrote the powerpc code also wrote the x86
> > code, without even realizing it.
> 
> 
> Unless you know that MacOS from the Lisa days were designed to be
> bi-endian, you cannot state that any code Apple used from MacOS to be
> ported to OS-X was bi-endian by nature.

yes i can.

what part of an intel version was maintained in secret is not clear?

> And you cannot state that the last minute decision to port framerowrks
> such as Carbon involved spending the time right off the bat to ensure
> bi-endianness. They would have been busy enough to just hook it to
> NEXTSTEP/Objective C.

it was not in any way a last minute decision. 

*every* line of code for mac os x was endian-neutral. anything that was
not was flagged as a bug which had to be fixed.

> You can compile it without errors, but you still need to validate it
> will work and not crash. In the end, you still need to go through it
> with a fine comb to catch any endian-sensitive code in it.  This takes
> time and human resources (aka: money). If you are iun a hurry to get
> OS)X out with unplanned additions such as Carbon, you get it up and
> urnning on PowerPC and worry about x86 later.

carbon was not an unplanned addition.

where do you come up with this shit?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134118

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-08-19 23:51 -0400
Message-ID<_qm%G.63786$cc1.62096@fx29.iad>
In reply to#134112
On 2020-08-19 18:58, nospam wrote:

>> Unless you know that MacOS from the Lisa days were designed to be
>> bi-endian, you cannot state that any code Apple used from MacOS to be
>> ported to OS-X was bi-endian by nature.
> 
> yes i can.
> 
> what part of an intel version was maintained in secret is not clear?

So now, you are stating that Apple has been secretly building MacOS on
Intel since 1984 when the Mac was launched?

I am talking about original MacOS code not the Nextstep code yet you
keep yapping about how Apple has alwasy secretly built it on x86.

macOs started as 32bits at a time when x86 was still 16 bits with
segment registers.


> it was not in any way a last minute decision. 

Apple had not planned on porting original MacOS stuff to Nextep/OS-X. It
was prior to llaunch of OS-X that the large developpers such as Adobe
told Apple "no way José" and Apple was forced to port APIs sucha s
Carbon and others to OS-X so developpers could easily recompile "native"
on OS0X instead of running in Blue Box.


Remember that NextStep was 100% incompatible with MacOS so developpers
would have had to spend huge amounts of time rewriting apps to sue the
Nextstep APIs instead of the MacOS ones.

So "last minute" is correct because it was not originally planned and
was after release of OS-X Server 1.0


> *every* line of code for mac os x was endian-neutral. anything that was
> not was flagged as a bug which had to be fixed.

But this does not mean that it had to be fixed prior to first release of
desktop OS-X. The initial port of Carbon to Nextstep was a quick and
dirty one and Apple then went back and fixed it up. In fact from what I
had read, that was a major rewrite with the new Carbon calling Cocoa
instead of having 2 separate drawing packages and this greatly increased
efficiency.

Between the initial quick and dirty port and the rewrite, Carbon likely
existed only on PowerpC version. The rewrite would have qualified it as
bi-endiness and would built on x86.



> carbon was not an unplanned addition.

Why then did the large developpers including Adobe threaten to no go to
OS-X if Carbon weren't available ?  Why then was Carbon not in
OSX-Server if Apple hadn't planned to have it?

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#134119

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-20 00:27 -0400
Message-ID<200820200027227174%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#134118
In article <_qm%G.63786$cc1.62096@fx29.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> >> Unless you know that MacOS from the Lisa days were designed to be
> >> bi-endian, you cannot state that any code Apple used from MacOS to be
> >> ported to OS-X was bi-endian by nature.
> > 
> > yes i can.
> > 
> > what part of an intel version was maintained in secret is not clear?
> 
> So now, you are stating that Apple has been secretly building MacOS on
> Intel since 1984 when the Mac was launched?

try to pay attention.

mac os x led a double-life.

powerpc was obviously public. 
intel was secret. *very* few people knew about it. 

*everything* had to compile and run on both platforms.

classic is the exception, for reasons that should be obvious. 


> > *every* line of code for mac os x was endian-neutral. anything that was
> > not was flagged as a bug which had to be fixed.
> 
> But this does not mean that it had to be fixed prior to first release of
> desktop OS-X. 

yes it does. *everything* had to compile and run on both.

> The initial port of Carbon to Nextstep was a quick and
> dirty one and Apple then went back and fixed it up.

nonsense.

seriously, where do you come up with this shit?

> In fact from what I
> had read, that was a major rewrite with the new Carbon calling Cocoa
> instead of having 2 separate drawing packages and this greatly increased
> efficiency.

where did you read that??

> Between the initial quick and dirty port and the rewrite, Carbon likely
> existed only on PowerpC version. The rewrite would have qualified it as
> bi-endiness and would built on x86.

no.

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#134121

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2020-08-20 06:12 +0000
Message-ID<hq6iihF33guU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#134119
On Aug 19, 2020 at 9:27:22 PM MST, "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <_qm%G.63786$cc1.62096@fx29.iad>, JF Mezei
> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> 
>>  >> Unless you know that MacOS from the Lisa days were designed to be
>>  >> bi-endian, you cannot state that any code Apple used from MacOS to be
>>  >> ported to OS-X was bi-endian by nature.
>>  > 
>>  > yes i can.
>>  > 
>>  > what part of an intel version was maintained in secret is not clear?
>>  
>>  So now, you are stating that Apple has been secretly building MacOS on
>>  Intel since 1984 when the Mac was launched?
> 
> try to pay attention.

Notice your tone there. How would you describe it?

> mac os x led a double-life.

Friends in the day time, strangers at night. 

...

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134122

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-08-20 08:25 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrjscr2.2kel.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#134118
In message <_qm%G.63786$cc1.62096@fx29.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> I am talking about original MacOS code

Oh great, something else you know nothing at all about. This should be
fun.

> *every* line of code for mac os x was endian-neutral. anything that was
>> not was flagged as a bug which had to be fixed.

> But this does not mean that it had to be fixed prior to first release of
> desktop OS-X.

Yes it does because a WORKING INTEL BUILD WAS MAINTAINED THE ENTIRE
TIME. EVERY FUCKING VERSION OF OS X RAN ON INTEL HARDWARE. EVERY SINGLE
ONE.

You have been told this and linked to numerous cites dozens if not
hundreds of times.

STOP SPEWING BULLSHIT.

-- 
HILLBILLIES ARE PEOPLE TOO Bart chalkboard Ep. AABF11

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#134149

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-08-22 21:39 -0400
Message-ID<pNj0H.421697$DO2.66524@fx45.iad>
In reply to#134122
On 2020-08-20 04:25, Lewis wrote:

> Yes it does because a WORKING INTEL BUILD WAS MAINTAINED THE ENTIRE
> TIME. EVERY FUCKING VERSION OF OS X RAN ON INTEL HARDWARE. EVERY SINGLE
> ONE.

Are you stating categorically that every productized version of OS-X
from Cheetah to Tiger was built on Intel with 100% of features that were
productized also included in the intel build?

The fact that someone had to demonstrate to an Apple exec that a build
on Intel was _still_ possible means that Apple did not ALWAYS intend to
keep the Intel port active otherwise that conversation wouldn't have
happened.

And it also does not state that at that point, ALL of OS-X was buildable
on Intel. That demo was done to give Apple the indication it would be
worth it to ensure all components were made Intel compatible and could
have been what prompted the rewrite of Carbon to better integrate into
NextSTEP (aka OS-X);

The fact that at some point, Apple made a decision to have a policy to
ensure all code could build on Intel does not mean that all code was
buildable on Intel at the time that policy was made.  (I point to Carbon
here).


You are blinded by your love of Apple and refuse to read carefully
worded statements to see what is missing from them and are gullible
enough to accept them for what you want them to say instead of what they
are saying.

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#134150

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-22 21:55 -0400
Message-ID<220820202155269627%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#134149
In article <pNj0H.421697$DO2.66524@fx45.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> 
> > Yes it does because a WORKING INTEL BUILD WAS MAINTAINED THE ENTIRE
> > TIME. EVERY FUCKING VERSION OF OS X RAN ON INTEL HARDWARE. EVERY SINGLE
> > ONE.
> 
> Are you stating categorically that every productized version of OS-X
> from Cheetah to Tiger was built on Intel with 100% of features that were
> productized also included in the intel build?

correct, as well as everything before cheetah.

the lone exception is classic, for reasons that should be obvious.

> The fact that someone had to demonstrate to an Apple exec that a build
> on Intel was _still_ possible means that Apple did not ALWAYS intend to
> keep the Intel port active otherwise that conversation wouldn't have
> happened.

no demos needed, since it ran on intel before it ran on powerpc.

> And it also does not state that at that point, ALL of OS-X was buildable
> on Intel. That demo was done to give Apple the indication it would be
> worth it to ensure all components were made Intel compatible

*all* builds of mac os x were *required* to build and run on both
powerpc and intel. full stop.

> and could
> have been what prompted the rewrite of Carbon to better integrate into
> NextSTEP (aka OS-X);

what supposed rewrite was this?

stop making things up. seriously.

> The fact that at some point, Apple made a decision to have a policy to
> ensure all code could build on Intel does not mean that all code was
> buildable on Intel at the time that policy was made.  (I point to Carbon
> here).

that decision was made in 1997, after apple bought next, when it was
decided what the future would be. carbon did not exist at that time.

> You are blinded by your love of Apple and refuse to read carefully
> worded statements to see what is missing from them and are gullible
> enough to accept them for what you want them to say instead of what they
> are saying.

you are the only person who is blinded and who refuses to believe what
actually happened, preferring to live in a fantasy world of his own
making, where apple did imaginary things that have no basis in reality.

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