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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #133949 > unrolled thread

Trivia Pixar computers

Started byJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
First post2020-08-10 04:52 -0400
Last post2020-08-17 08:59 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 146 — 10 participants

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Contents

  Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-10 04:52 -0400
    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-10 08:02 -0400
      Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-11 02:49 -0400
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-11 07:13 +0000
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-11 14:04 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-11 20:39 +0000
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-11 19:22 -0400
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-11 09:39 -0400
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-11 09:50 -0700
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-11 14:08 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-11 20:37 +0000
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-11 17:02 -0700
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-12 12:27 +0000
                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-12 08:09 -0700
                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-12 21:29 +0000
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-12 14:34 -0700
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 20:25 -0400
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-12 22:23 -0400
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 22:43 -0400
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-12 19:52 -0700
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-13 04:26 +0000
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-13 02:44 -0400
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-13 08:10 +0000
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-13 19:15 -0400
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-13 19:47 -0400
                                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-14 00:33 +0000
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-14 03:40 +0000
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2020-08-17 08:45 -0400
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-13 09:25 -0400
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-13 13:39 -0700
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-13 19:19 -0400
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-13 23:21 +0000
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-13 19:47 -0400
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-14 00:35 +0000
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-14 03:43 +0000
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-13 04:24 +0000
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-11 19:22 -0400
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-11 16:58 -0700
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-12 12:32 +0000
                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-12 08:10 -0700
                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-12 21:32 +0000
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-12 14:36 -0700
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 20:25 -0400
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-12 22:29 -0400
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 22:43 -0400
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-13 04:29 +0000
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 08:44 -0400
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-16 08:25 -0400
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-16 17:11 +0000
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-17 09:14 -0400
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-17 17:43 +0000
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-16 14:17 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-16 19:00 +0000
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-16 21:09 +0000
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-17 01:14 +0000
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-17 07:10 -0400
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-17 21:45 +0000
                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-18 11:02 -0400
                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-18 21:01 -0400
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 01:30 +0000
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-18 18:39 -0700
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 05:57 +0000
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-19 00:39 -0700
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 10:00 +0000
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 06:34 -0400
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-19 10:57 -0700
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 20:29 +0000
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 16:49 -0400
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 17:00 -0400
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-19 21:05 +0000
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-20 03:36 +0000
                                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-19 21:28 -0700
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-19 10:56 -0700
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 00:32 -0400
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Krzysztof Mitko <invalid@kmitko.at.list.dot.pl> - 2020-08-21 13:45 +0200
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-16 16:13 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-16 21:23 +0000
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-17 09:37 -0400
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-17 17:35 +0000
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-17 13:46 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-17 09:27 -0400
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-17 17:48 +0000
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-17 14:56 -0400
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-17 15:21 -0400
                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-18 18:05 -0400
                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 00:32 -0400
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-19 07:14 +0000
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 06:34 -0400
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 05:58 -0400
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 10:11 +0000
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 16:45 -0400
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 17:00 -0400
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 18:38 -0400
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 18:58 -0400
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 23:51 -0400
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-20 00:27 -0400
                                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-20 06:12 +0000
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-20 08:25 +0000
                                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-22 21:39 -0400
                                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-22 21:55 -0400
                                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-22 23:06 -0400
                                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-22 23:48 -0400
                                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-23 22:36 -0700
                                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-23 06:22 +0000
                                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-23 04:41 -0400
                                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-23 06:42 -0400
                                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-23 11:24 +0000
                                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-23 19:33 -0400
                                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-23 21:11 -0400
                                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-24 13:11 +0000
                                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-23 06:21 +0000
                                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-23 04:34 -0400
                                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-23 06:42 -0400
                                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-23 19:06 -0400
                                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-23 23:31 +0000
                                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-23 21:11 -0400
                                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-23 11:19 +0000
                                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-23 06:42 -0400
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 06:34 -0400
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-19 19:24 +0000
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 16:35 -0400
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-19 21:01 +0000
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 18:58 -0400
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 20:42 +0000
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-19 21:21 +0000
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 18:41 -0400
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 18:58 -0400
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-20 03:31 +0000
      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-16 08:03 -0400
    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Calum <com.gmail@nospam.scottishwildcat> - 2020-08-10 14:16 +0100
      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-08-11 10:04 +1200
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-11 07:14 +0000
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-16 08:31 -0400
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-16 17:13 +0000
    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-10 08:20 -0700
      Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-11 03:07 -0400
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-11 17:12 -0700
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-12 00:59 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-11 22:23 -0700
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-12 19:28 -0400
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 20:25 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-12 12:37 +0000
    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-16 07:54 -0400
      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-16 17:06 +0000
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-16 14:17 -0400
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-17 08:59 -0400

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#133999

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-08-12 21:32 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrj8nv9.2g0s.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#133993
In message <rh10p0$65c$2@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
> On 2020-08-12 5:32 a.m., Lewis wrote:
>> In message <rgvbb0$lvl$1@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>> On 2020-08-11 4:22 p.m., nospam wrote:
>>>> In article <rgui9c$i0$1@dont-email.me>, Alan Baker
>>>> <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> I beleive the last one they had
>>>>>>> was on a PowerPC 601.  A few years in the 1990s meant a lot had changed
>>>>>>> so not sure how much was still usable, but they would have have the boot
>>>>>>> loader stuff already.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> nope. it took a few months from when apple bought next to when they
>>>>>> were first able to boot openstep on a powerpc mac, and that was just
>>>>>> the kernel, not the entire thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> NeXT did begin a project on PowerPC. They just never finished it.
>>>>
>>>> then it doesn't count.
>>>>
>>>> lots of companies have unfinished projects, including apple.
>> 
>>> It counts in the context of whether or not they use "PowerPC at all".
>> 
>> No, it doesn't. They never used PowerPC. They LOOKED at using PowerPC. They
>> THOUGHT abotu it. They abandoned those plans before they were completed.

> They clearly didn't abandon them until a lot of work porting the OS 
> would already have been done.

There's that "clearly" again. You are pulling a JF and making shit up
with no basis in fact at all.

>>> Clearly, if NeXT got to the point of having prototype motherboards, they
>>> had already done most if not all of the work of porting
>>> NeXTStep/OpenSTEP to PowerPC.
>> 
>> "Clearly" is always an indication that something is definitely not at all clear
>> and is almost always an indication that the following statement is incorrect.
>> 
>>>> here's a timeline:
>>>> <http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/4B800F78-0F75-455A-9681-
>>>> F186A4365805_files/droppedImage_4.png>
>> 
>>> I'd avoid using Dilger as your source. He's well-known as a starry-eyed
>>> fan boy with little in the way of objectivity.
>> 
>> Irrelevant, these are facts. You are free to provide proof they are wrong, if
>> uch proof exists (it does not, this timeline has been confirmed by many people
>> who worked at Apple at the time).

> They had pre-production components.

For an entirely different hardware platform years before the Apple
acquisition.

> That means they had it working before that.

Irrelevant, and certainly not a fact, just a supposition. It's quite
possible they abandoned it because they did NOT have it working.

-- 
A marriage is always made up of two people who are prepared to swear
	that only the other one snores.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134001

FromAlan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no>
Date2020-08-12 14:36 -0700
Message-ID<rh1nc4$ipe$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#133999
On 2020-08-12 2:32 p.m., Lewis wrote:
> In message <rh10p0$65c$2@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>> On 2020-08-12 5:32 a.m., Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <rgvbb0$lvl$1@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>>> On 2020-08-11 4:22 p.m., nospam wrote:
>>>>> In article <rgui9c$i0$1@dont-email.me>, Alan Baker
>>>>> <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I beleive the last one they had
>>>>>>>> was on a PowerPC 601.  A few years in the 1990s meant a lot had changed
>>>>>>>> so not sure how much was still usable, but they would have have the boot
>>>>>>>> loader stuff already.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> nope. it took a few months from when apple bought next to when they
>>>>>>> were first able to boot openstep on a powerpc mac, and that was just
>>>>>>> the kernel, not the entire thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NeXT did begin a project on PowerPC. They just never finished it.
>>>>>
>>>>> then it doesn't count.
>>>>>
>>>>> lots of companies have unfinished projects, including apple.
>>>
>>>> It counts in the context of whether or not they use "PowerPC at all".
>>>
>>> No, it doesn't. They never used PowerPC. They LOOKED at using PowerPC. They
>>> THOUGHT abotu it. They abandoned those plans before they were completed.
> 
>> They clearly didn't abandon them until a lot of work porting the OS
>> would already have been done.
> 
> There's that "clearly" again. You are pulling a JF and making shit up
> with no basis in fact at all.
> 
>>>> Clearly, if NeXT got to the point of having prototype motherboards, they
>>>> had already done most if not all of the work of porting
>>>> NeXTStep/OpenSTEP to PowerPC.
>>>
>>> "Clearly" is always an indication that something is definitely not at all clear
>>> and is almost always an indication that the following statement is incorrect.
>>>
>>>>> here's a timeline:
>>>>> <http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/4B800F78-0F75-455A-9681-
>>>>> F186A4365805_files/droppedImage_4.png>
>>>
>>>> I'd avoid using Dilger as your source. He's well-known as a starry-eyed
>>>> fan boy with little in the way of objectivity.
>>>
>>> Irrelevant, these are facts. You are free to provide proof they are wrong, if
>>> uch proof exists (it does not, this timeline has been confirmed by many people
>>> who worked at Apple at the time).
> 
>> They had pre-production components.
> 
> For an entirely different hardware platform years before the Apple
> acquisition.

For a POWERPC platform.

The instructions were PowerPC.

> 
>> That means they had it working before that.
> 
> Irrelevant, and certainly not a fact, just a supposition. It's quite
> possible they abandoned it because they did NOT have it working.

Really?

They built pre-production motherboards, because it WASN'T working?

Why are you fighting the obviousness of this?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134008

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-12 20:25 -0400
Message-ID<120820202025215514%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#134001
In article <rh1nc4$ipe$2@dont-email.me>, Alan Baker
<notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

> >> They had pre-production components.
> > 
> > For an entirely different hardware platform years before the Apple
> > acquisition.
> 
> For a POWERPC platform.
> 
> The instructions were PowerPC.

except that the hardware was totally different, so the kernel and
drivers would be different. also, the powerpc g4 had altivec, which
would not have been available for their earlier attempt.

they had to start from scratch for mac hardware, including the build
environment. it's not like they could just import old project builder
files into codewarrior.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134013

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-08-12 22:29 -0400
Message-ID<AA1ZG.61807$qo5.57851@fx23.iad>
In reply to#134008
On 2020-08-12 20:25, nospam wrote:

> except that the hardware was totally different, so the kernel and
> drivers would be different. also, the powerpc g4 had altivec, which
> would not have been available for their earlier attempt.

And the hardware between the last NextSTEP poduced on 80486 was also
different.

PowerPC maintained its overall architecture which is the toughh part of
having your OS on an architecture (the various exec modes, memory
protection schemes, vistyla memory etc.

Apple already had modern C compiler for then current PowerPC which took
advantage of the added instructions. (though not clear if original
NeXTSTEP was written in C or ANSI C, which require conversion from C to
ANSI C.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134015

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-12 22:43 -0400
Message-ID<120820202243242482%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#134013
In article <AA1ZG.61807$qo5.57851@fx23.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:



> Apple already had modern C compiler for then current PowerPC which took
> advantage of the added instructions. (though not clear if original
> NeXTSTEP was written in C or ANSI C, which require conversion from C to
> ANSI C.

nextstep was written in objective c.

it would have been impossible to write it in c and certainly not c++.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134019

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-08-13 04:29 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrj9gcf.unq.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#134001
In message <rh1nc4$ipe$2@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
> On 2020-08-12 2:32 p.m., Lewis wrote:
>> In message <rh10p0$65c$2@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>> On 2020-08-12 5:32 a.m., Lewis wrote:
>>>> In message <rgvbb0$lvl$1@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>>>> On 2020-08-11 4:22 p.m., nospam wrote:
>>>>>> In article <rgui9c$i0$1@dont-email.me>, Alan Baker
>>>>>> <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I beleive the last one they had
>>>>>>>>> was on a PowerPC 601.  A few years in the 1990s meant a lot had changed
>>>>>>>>> so not sure how much was still usable, but they would have have the boot
>>>>>>>>> loader stuff already.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> nope. it took a few months from when apple bought next to when they
>>>>>>>> were first able to boot openstep on a powerpc mac, and that was just
>>>>>>>> the kernel, not the entire thing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NeXT did begin a project on PowerPC. They just never finished it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> then it doesn't count.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> lots of companies have unfinished projects, including apple.
>>>>
>>>>> It counts in the context of whether or not they use "PowerPC at all".
>>>>
>>>> No, it doesn't. They never used PowerPC. They LOOKED at using PowerPC. They
>>>> THOUGHT abotu it. They abandoned those plans before they were completed.
>> 
>>> They clearly didn't abandon them until a lot of work porting the OS
>>> would already have been done.
>> 
>> There's that "clearly" again. You are pulling a JF and making shit up
>> with no basis in fact at all.
>> 
>>>>> Clearly, if NeXT got to the point of having prototype motherboards, they
>>>>> had already done most if not all of the work of porting
>>>>> NeXTStep/OpenSTEP to PowerPC.
>>>>
>>>> "Clearly" is always an indication that something is definitely not at all clear
>>>> and is almost always an indication that the following statement is incorrect.
>>>>
>>>>>> here's a timeline:
>>>>>> <http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/4B800F78-0F75-455A-9681-
>>>>>> F186A4365805_files/droppedImage_4.png>
>>>>
>>>>> I'd avoid using Dilger as your source. He's well-known as a starry-eyed
>>>>> fan boy with little in the way of objectivity.
>>>>
>>>> Irrelevant, these are facts. You are free to provide proof they are wrong, if
>>>> uch proof exists (it does not, this timeline has been confirmed by many people
>>>> who worked at Apple at the time).
>> 
>>> They had pre-production components.
>> 
>> For an entirely different hardware platform years before the Apple
>> acquisition.

> For a POWERPC platform.

So what? There is a fuck of a lot more to designing a system that the
CPU.

>> Irrelevant, and certainly not a fact, just a supposition. It's quite
>> possible they abandoned it because they did NOT have it working.

> Really?

> They built pre-production motherboards, because it WASN'T working?

> Why are you fighting the obviousness of this?

Because you are MAKING SHIT UP and you are claiming something is true
with absolutely not a shred of evidence for it.

There is a reason they never released this, and it is IRRELEVANT to the
Mac hardware of 1998.


-- 
"They always say time changes things, but you actually have to change
	them yourself." Andy Warhol

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133991

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-12 08:44 -0400
Message-ID<120820200844166079%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#133979
In article <rgvbb0$lvl$1@dont-email.me>, Alan Baker
<notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

> 
> Clearly, if NeXT got to the point of having prototype motherboards, they 
> had already done most if not all of the work of porting 
> NeXTStep/OpenSTEP to PowerPC.

having a working prototype only means you can start porting.

what is unknown is how much functionality the prototype boards actually
had and how far they took the project.

what *is* known is that it was never a shipping product, therefore it
was never completed.

> > here's a timeline:
> > <http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/4B800F78-0F75-455A-9681-
> > F186A4365805_files/droppedImage_4.png>
> > 
> 
> I'd avoid using Dilger as your source. He's well-known as a starry-eyed 
> fan boy with little in the way of objectivity.

logical fallacy and that timeline is correct.

> NeXT was clearly working on a PowerPC workstation, and had actual 
> prototype motherboards, so they also quite clearly had software to run 
> on the inevitable wire-wrap machines they would have already created.
> 
> In short, much of the work of porting NextSTEP/OpenSTEP to PowerPC had 
> already been done.

very little had been done, mainly because the underlying hardware was
completely different.

in particular, pci macs used open firmware and whatever next might have
had a decade earlier did not.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134045

FromBud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com>
Date2020-08-16 08:25 -0400
Message-ID<XA9_G.53893$Ml5.30366@fx24.iad>
In reply to#133959
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:

>
> Ur isn't clear to me that "kept alive" is the correct term. The
> Wikipedia articel stated that prior to being bought by Apple, NeXT had
> already switched away from NeXTSTEP and forpcsed on OpenStep which was a
> set of APIs sold to folks like Sun and banks etc.

At the time that I was given a copy of OPENSTEP, there wasn't a NeXTSTEP
being sold. OPENSTEP was the product and it was what they called the
OS. 

> OS-X is a superset that includes NeXTSTEP , and components from MacOS 9
> as well as new stuff for OS-X.

I actually thought (and still do to some extent) that Mac OS X was a
downgrade from OPENSTEP. :-) They took a thoroughbred (OPENSTEP) and
crossed it with an old nag (Mac OS) and the result was a mongrel that
had very little of the beauty of the originals. The result seemed a bit,
well, confused.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134054

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-08-16 17:11 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrjiq6r.21u5.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#134045
In message <XA9_G.53893$Ml5.30366@fx24.iad> Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:

>>
>> Ur isn't clear to me that "kept alive" is the correct term. The
>> Wikipedia articel stated that prior to being bought by Apple, NeXT had
>> already switched away from NeXTSTEP and forpcsed on OpenStep which was a
>> set of APIs sold to folks like Sun and banks etc.

> At the time that I was given a copy of OPENSTEP, there wasn't a NeXTSTEP
> being sold. OPENSTEP was the product and it was what they called the
> OS. 

>> OS-X is a superset that includes NeXTSTEP , and components from MacOS 9
>> as well as new stuff for OS-X.

> I actually thought (and still do to some extent) that Mac OS X was a
> downgrade from OPENSTEP. :-) They took a thoroughbred (OPENSTEP) and
> crossed it with an old nag (Mac OS) and the result was a mongrel that
> had very little of the beauty of the originals. The result seemed a bit,
> well, confused.

There's a reason that NextStep/OpenStep did not succeed, and that
reasons can very much be summed up by looking at it next to OS X.

Anyone can use OS X, only someone who is really into computers can do
much of anything in NS/OS. Guess which category of people contains many
orders of magnitude more people?

You can go even further if you want. Anyone can use OS X, only super
nerds can use Unix, and yet Unix is right there as the foundation of OS
X and now macOS.

There will never be a year of linux on the desktop" because anyone with
the slightest sense who wants a desktop with Unix uses macOS.

-- 
I'm no psychologist (although I play one when I'm picking up chicks
	over by the asylum)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134067

FromBud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com>
Date2020-08-17 09:14 -0400
Message-ID<8pv_G.131825$GQ4.90875@fx02.iad>
In reply to#134054
Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> writes:

> In message <XA9_G.53893$Ml5.30366@fx24.iad> Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:
>
>>>
>>> Ur isn't clear to me that "kept alive" is the correct term. The
>>> Wikipedia articel stated that prior to being bought by Apple, NeXT had
>>> already switched away from NeXTSTEP and forpcsed on OpenStep which was a
>>> set of APIs sold to folks like Sun and banks etc.
>
>> At the time that I was given a copy of OPENSTEP, there wasn't a NeXTSTEP
>> being sold. OPENSTEP was the product and it was what they called the
>> OS. 
>
>>> OS-X is a superset that includes NeXTSTEP , and components from MacOS 9
>>> as well as new stuff for OS-X.
>
>> I actually thought (and still do to some extent) that Mac OS X was a
>> downgrade from OPENSTEP. :-) They took a thoroughbred (OPENSTEP) and
>> crossed it with an old nag (Mac OS) and the result was a mongrel that
>> had very little of the beauty of the originals. The result seemed a bit,
>> well, confused.
>
> There's a reason that NextStep/OpenStep did not succeed, and that
> reasons can very much be summed up by looking at it next to OS X.
>
> Anyone can use OS X, only someone who is really into computers can do
> much of anything in NS/OS. Guess which category of people contains many
> orders of magnitude more people?

NeXTSTEP and OPENSTEP were very easy to use. 

There were several reasons they didn't succeed. One was Jobs. He spent
money in the wrong places, built a factory that was overkill, and
insisted on changes that delayed release of products. It was almost a
repeat of the Lisa, and of the early Mac models. Apple was able to keep
going because it still had the Apple ][ to tide it over until the Mac
started selling. NeXT didn't have that.  

>
> You can go even further if you want. Anyone can use OS X, only super
> nerds can use Unix, and yet Unix is right there as the foundation of OS
> X and now macOS.

OS X MacOS _are_ Unix. You don't need to be special to use Unix or to
use a Mac. (Or to use Linux, or Windows, or DOS, or OS/2, etc.)

>
> There will never be a year of linux on the desktop" because anyone with
> the slightest sense who wants a desktop with Unix uses macOS.

There doesn't have to be a "year of Linux on the desktop." People who
want to use it do so. People who don't, don't.

Macs are better for some thing, Linux running on various platforms is
better for other things. Even Windows is better for some thing (although
they're not things that I do).

I have been perfectly happy using Linux as my desktop for years. I was
happy using FreeBSD and Solaris on the desktop too. I'm now happy using
MacOS on the desktop.

I even switch back and forth between Linux and MacOS. Today I'm on my
Mac and tomorrow I might be on Linux.

My wife loves her laptop running Linux Mint. She's not a "super nerd." 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134071

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-08-17 17:43 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrjlget.1s09.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#134067
In message <8pv_G.131825$GQ4.90875@fx02.iad> Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> writes:

>> In message <XA9_G.53893$Ml5.30366@fx24.iad> Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>>> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Ur isn't clear to me that "kept alive" is the correct term. The
>>>> Wikipedia articel stated that prior to being bought by Apple, NeXT had
>>>> already switched away from NeXTSTEP and forpcsed on OpenStep which was a
>>>> set of APIs sold to folks like Sun and banks etc.
>>
>>> At the time that I was given a copy of OPENSTEP, there wasn't a NeXTSTEP
>>> being sold. OPENSTEP was the product and it was what they called the
>>> OS. 
>>
>>>> OS-X is a superset that includes NeXTSTEP , and components from MacOS 9
>>>> as well as new stuff for OS-X.
>>
>>> I actually thought (and still do to some extent) that Mac OS X was a
>>> downgrade from OPENSTEP. :-) They took a thoroughbred (OPENSTEP) and
>>> crossed it with an old nag (Mac OS) and the result was a mongrel that
>>> had very little of the beauty of the originals. The result seemed a bit,
>>> well, confused.
>>
>> There's a reason that NextStep/OpenStep did not succeed, and that
>> reasons can very much be summed up by looking at it next to OS X.
>>
>> Anyone can use OS X, only someone who is really into computers can do
>> much of anything in NS/OS. Guess which category of people contains many
>> orders of magnitude more people?

> NeXTSTEP and OPENSTEP were very easy to use. 

Not for my Mom, my father in law, my aunts and unless and all the cousins
who are not computer nerds. No, it was not,

>> You can go even further if you want. Anyone can use OS X, only super
>> nerds can use Unix, and yet Unix is right there as the foundation of OS
>> X and now macOS.

> OS X MacOS _are_ Unix. You don't need to be special to use Unix or to
> use a Mac. (Or to use Linux, or Windows, or DOS, or OS/2, etc.)

Maybe you need to get out more an see people who simply use their
computers to do basic things without programming them or even knowing
what a command line is.

The whole point of Mac OS for 99.9% of users is that they do not
even KNOW there is unix command line.

>> There will never be a year of linux on the desktop" because anyone with
>> the slightest sense who wants a desktop with Unix uses macOS.

> There doesn't have to be a "year of Linux on the desktop." People who
> want to use it do so. People who don't, don't.

And the vast majority of users have no fucking idea what linux on the
desktop means.

> I have been perfectly happy using Linux as my desktop for years.

Irrelevant to nearly all people on the planet who would NOT be happy if
someone foisted a linux desktop on them.

> My wife loves her laptop running Linux Mint. She's not a "super nerd." 

She has someone around to deal with it. Try that with, say, someone who
doesn’t have a super nerd around.

Well, no don't. That would just be cruel.

-- 
"What's a Velvet Underground?" "You wouldn't like it." "Oh, Be-bop."

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134057

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-16 14:17 -0400
Message-ID<160820201417037818%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#134045
In article <XA9_G.53893$Ml5.30366@fx24.iad>, Bud Frede
<frede@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

> > Ur isn't clear to me that "kept alive" is the correct term. The
> > Wikipedia articel stated that prior to being bought by Apple, NeXT had
> > already switched away from NeXTSTEP and forpcsed on OpenStep which was a
> > set of APIs sold to folks like Sun and banks etc.
> 
> At the time that I was given a copy of OPENSTEP, there wasn't a NeXTSTEP
> being sold. OPENSTEP was the product and it was what they called the
> OS. 

see other post for the difference, which is nothing significant.

> > OS-X is a superset that includes NeXTSTEP , and components from MacOS 9
> > as well as new stuff for OS-X.
> 
> I actually thought (and still do to some extent) that Mac OS X was a
> downgrade from OPENSTEP. :-) 

it's not.

it's *significantly* better in all sorts of ways...

> They took a thoroughbred (OPENSTEP) and
> crossed it with an old nag (Mac OS) and the result was a mongrel that
> had very little of the beauty of the originals. The result seemed a bit,
> well, confused.

...however, they totally fucked up classic mac os, notably finder,
which still to this day does not work properly.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134058

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2020-08-16 19:00 +0000
Message-ID<hpte32F60d1U14@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#134057
On Aug 16, 2020 at 11:17:03 AM MST, "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <XA9_G.53893$Ml5.30366@fx24.iad>, Bud Frede
> <frede@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> 
>>  > Ur isn't clear to me that "kept alive" is the correct term. The
>>  > Wikipedia articel stated that prior to being bought by Apple, NeXT had
>>  > already switched away from NeXTSTEP and forpcsed on OpenStep which was a
>>  > set of APIs sold to folks like Sun and banks etc.
>>  
>>  At the time that I was given a copy of OPENSTEP, there wasn't a NeXTSTEP
>>  being sold. OPENSTEP was the product and it was what they called the
>>  OS. 
> 
> see other post for the difference, which is nothing significant.
> 
>>  > OS-X is a superset that includes NeXTSTEP , and components from MacOS 9
>>  > as well as new stuff for OS-X.
>>  
>>  I actually thought (and still do to some extent) that Mac OS X was a
>>  downgrade from OPENSTEP. :-) 
> 
> it's not.
> 
> it's *significantly* better in all sorts of ways...
> 
>>  They took a thoroughbred (OPENSTEP) and
>>  crossed it with an old nag (Mac OS) and the result was a mongrel that
>>  had very little of the beauty of the originals. The result seemed a bit,
>>  well, confused.
> 
> ...however, they totally fucked up classic mac os, notably finder,
> which still to this day does not work properly.

It works differently. I, too, miss the spacial Finder (though you can largely
get that back by hiding the toolbar), but the new Finder also has MANY
benefits.

What weaknesses are you thinking of?

For me one of the things I miss from Classic Mac OS is being able to launch
programs from Preferences files and having different sets of preferences to do
different things. Wish they had moved that to macOS... though I also know only
a very small number of users even knew of that feature. 


-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134060

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-08-16 21:09 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrjj83e.2bon.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#134058
In message <hpte32F60d1U14@mid.individual.net> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On Aug 16, 2020 at 11:17:03 AM MST, "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> In article <XA9_G.53893$Ml5.30366@fx24.iad>, Bud Frede
>> <frede@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>  > Ur isn't clear to me that "kept alive" is the correct term. The
>>>  > Wikipedia articel stated that prior to being bought by Apple, NeXT had
>>>  > already switched away from NeXTSTEP and forpcsed on OpenStep which was a
>>>  > set of APIs sold to folks like Sun and banks etc.
>>>  
>>>  At the time that I was given a copy of OPENSTEP, there wasn't a NeXTSTEP
>>>  being sold. OPENSTEP was the product and it was what they called the
>>>  OS. 
>> 
>> see other post for the difference, which is nothing significant.
>> 
>>>  > OS-X is a superset that includes NeXTSTEP , and components from MacOS 9
>>>  > as well as new stuff for OS-X.
>>>  
>>>  I actually thought (and still do to some extent) that Mac OS X was a
>>>  downgrade from OPENSTEP. :-) 
>> 
>> it's not.
>> 
>> it's *significantly* better in all sorts of ways...
>> 
>>>  They took a thoroughbred (OPENSTEP) and
>>>  crossed it with an old nag (Mac OS) and the result was a mongrel that
>>>  had very little of the beauty of the originals. The result seemed a bit,
>>>  well, confused.
>> 
>> ...however, they totally fucked up classic mac os, notably finder,
>> which still to this day does not work properly.

> It works differently. I, too, miss the spacial Finder (though you can largely
> get that back by hiding the toolbar), but the new Finder also has MANY
> benefits.

Since I OFTEN have two windows on my screen for the same folder, I am
very glad to be away from the spacial finder. I have been disagreeing
with John Siracusa on this since 2001 and the old days of the
macosx-talk mailing list.

> What weaknesses are you thinking of?

Having recently used a Mac OS 8.1 machine, there is nothing I miss. I
thought maybe the old Apple menu, but nope, not even that.

> For me one of the things I miss from Classic Mac OS is being able to launch
> programs from Preferences files and having different sets of preferences to do
> different things. Wish they had moved that to macOS... though I also know only
> a very small number of users even knew of that feature. 

And it was rarely useful.

iTerm2 has profiles, and a lot of apps that would benefit from user
profiles or different work profiles have mechanisms for this.

-- 
'He's mad, isn't he?' 'No, mad's when you froth at the mouth,' said
	Gaspode. ' He's insane. That's when you froth at the brain.'

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134062

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2020-08-17 01:14 +0000
Message-ID<hpu3vtF60d1U28@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#134060
On Aug 16, 2020 at 2:09:02 PM MST, "Lewis"
<g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

...

>>  It works differently. I, too, miss the spacial Finder (though you can
>> largely
>>  get that back by hiding the toolbar), but the new Finder also has MANY
>>  benefits.
> 
> Since I OFTEN have two windows on my screen for the same folder, I am
> very glad to be away from the spacial finder. I have been disagreeing
> with John Siracusa on this since 2001 and the old days of the
> macosx-talk mailing list.

I see benefits to both. I like being able to set a folder to a specific view
and knowing when I go to that folder it will have THAT view. MY view. The view
I want.

But, really, it is not that big of a deal... means I have to switch from icon
to list or whatever... sometimes a sort option. And there are benefits to
having a back buttons and the like.

>>  What weaknesses are you thinking of?
> 
> Having recently used a Mac OS 8.1 machine, there is nothing I miss. I
> thought maybe the old Apple menu, but nope, not even that.

I am sure there are a few other things I would like... but nothing comes to
mind off hand other than what I note below. 

>>  For me one of the things I miss from Classic Mac OS is being able to launch
>>  programs from Preferences files and having different sets of preferences to
>> do
>>  different things. Wish they had moved that to macOS... though I also know
>> only
>>  a very small number of users even knew of that feature. 
> 
> And it was rarely useful.

But there were times it was -- with no good way to do it now. Hardly a deal
breaker though. 

> iTerm2 has profiles, and a lot of apps that would benefit from user
> profiles or different work profiles have mechanisms for this.

Even with things like Pages it might be good to have "sets" of preferences for
how I want the toolbar set up along with some other options -- but, really,
NOT a big deal. It is not like I run into issues often where I think how great
it would be. 

-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134064

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-17 07:10 -0400
Message-ID<170820200710458541%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#134058
In article <hpte32F60d1U14@mid.individual.net>, Snit
<usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> > ...however, they totally fucked up classic mac os, notably finder,
> > which still to this day does not work properly.
> 
> It works differently. I, too, miss the spacial Finder (though you can largely
> get that back by hiding the toolbar), but the new Finder also has MANY
> benefits.
> 
> What weaknesses are you thinking of?

another reading fail. i did not say weaknesses. i said it doesn't work
properly, which it does not. 

> For me one of the things I miss from Classic Mac OS is being able to launch
> programs from Preferences files and having different sets of preferences to do
> different things. Wish they had moved that to macOS... though I also know only
> a very small number of users even knew of that feature.

yet another thing you do not understand.

what you describe is a function of the *app*, not the os, and uses an
api that is available on mac os x.

it's was rarely used, not intuitive (even more so on mac os x) and mac
os x app developers have much better options.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134076

FromSnit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date2020-08-17 21:45 +0000
Message-ID<hq0c3rFf4arU7@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#134064
On Aug 17, 2020 at 4:10:45 AM MST, "nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <hpte32F60d1U14@mid.individual.net>, Snit
> <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
>>  > ...however, they totally fucked up classic mac os, notably finder,
>>  > which still to this day does not work properly.
>>  
>>  It works differently. I, too, miss the spacial Finder (though you can
>> largely
>>  get that back by hiding the toolbar), but the new Finder also has MANY
>>  benefits.
>>  
>>  What weaknesses are you thinking of?
> 
> another reading fail. i did not say weaknesses. i said it doesn't work
> properly, which it does not. 

I do not care what hair you are splitting to say not working "properly" is
somehow not a "weakness", but I will note you changed the topic away from the
Finder and any flaws it has to your need to insult.

You don't talk tech -- you just attack. I will give you another chance: what
do you think is not working properly with the Finder? 

I can point to areas where I see room for improvement -- and have even spoken
to you about them. But can you? I bet not -- I bet you just just try to hide
the fact you have no clue what you are talking about behind yet more insults.
Please prove me wrong. Seriously... it would make this conversation much
better.
> 
> 
>>  For me one of the things I miss from Classic Mac OS is being able to launch
>>  programs from Preferences files and having different sets of preferences to
>> do
>>  different things. Wish they had moved that to macOS... though I also know
>> only
>>  a very small number of users even knew of that feature.
> 
> yet another thing you do not understand.
> 
> what you describe is a function of the *app*, not the os, and uses an
> api that is available on mac os x.
> 
> it's was rarely used, not intuitive (even more so on mac os x) and mac
> os x app developers have much better options.

I noted most were not aware of this in Classic Mac. You have now shown you
were one who did not understand this worked pretty much universally there. And
not on OS X / macOS. 

Thanks for backing my point. Here, so you can understand better what I am
talking about:

https://youtu.be/IouS4iDvsOQ

If you can show ANY app with preferences that does not do this in Classic Mac
I would love to see it. But I bet you won't. It was the standard in Classic
Mac... it was rare for ANY app to not respect this. I do not know of a single
one which did not (though of course I did not try every single app I used!)


-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134077

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-18 11:02 -0400
Message-ID<180820201102534764%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#134076
In article <hq0c3rFf4arU7@mid.individual.net>, Snit
<usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> > 
> >>  > ...however, they totally fucked up classic mac os, notably finder,
> >>  > which still to this day does not work properly.
> >>  
> >>  It works differently. I, too, miss the spacial Finder (though you can
> >> largely
> >>  get that back by hiding the toolbar), but the new Finder also has MANY
> >>  benefits.
> >>  
> >>  What weaknesses are you thinking of?
> > 
> > another reading fail. i did not say weaknesses. i said it doesn't work
> > properly, which it does not. 
> 
> I do not care what hair you are splitting to say not working "properly" is
> somehow not a "weakness", but I will note you changed the topic away from the
> Finder and any flaws it has to your need to insult.

i did not change anything nor did i insult anyone.

'does not work properly' is not the same as 'weakness'. it's a failure.

that you thought the former is the same as the latter is a reading fail.

you have many reading fails, with this being yet another on an ever
growing very long list.

> You don't talk tech -- you just attack. I will give you another chance: what
> do you think is not working properly with the Finder? 

get off your high horse.

you are not the arbitrator who doles out chances to others.

it was clear from the start you were trolling, which you've confirmed.

> I can point to areas where I see room for improvement -- and have even spoken
> to you about them. But can you? I bet not -- I bet you just just try to hide
> the fact you have no clue what you are talking about behind yet more insults.
> Please prove me wrong. Seriously... it would make this conversation much
> better.

what would make this and other conversations better would be if you
weren't combative and desperately trying to derail yet another thread.

> >>  For me one of the things I miss from Classic Mac OS is being able to
> >>  launch
> >>  programs from Preferences files and having different sets of preferences
> >>  to
> >> do
> >>  different things. Wish they had moved that to macOS... though I also know
> >> only
> >>  a very small number of users even knew of that feature.
> > 
> > yet another thing you do not understand.
> > 
> > what you describe is a function of the *app*, not the os, and uses an
> > api that is available on mac os x.
> > 
> > it's was rarely used, not intuitive (even more so on mac os x) and mac
> > os x app developers have much better options.
> 
> I noted most were not aware of this in Classic Mac. You have now shown you
> were one who did not understand this worked pretty much universally there. And
> not on OS X / macOS. 

i'm well aware of it and unlike you, i know how it works internally. 

it is *not* an os level function and never worked universally, nor
could it for reasons you obviously do not understand and don't appear
to have any interest in learning.

the only thing the os does is provide a list of documents to the app
upon launch, if any, which occurs in both classic mac os and mac os x.

at that point, it's up to the app how to handle it. prefs files would
need to be special cased, versus simply opening a normal user document.

go read apple developer documentation for more information, not that
you will understand any of it.

as usual, you are *way* out of your league, but you'll no doubt argue
anyway.

> Thanks for backing my point.

i'm not backing anything you said. stop lying.

> Here, so you can understand better what I am
> talking about:

i know exactly what you're talking about, how it works and have even
written apps that did that (and much more) on classic mac os, but that
was long, long ago.

you have not, nor could you if you tried, even with an easy to follow
tutorial.

as usual, you're talking out your butt and pretending to know more than
you actually do.

you might consider to stfu and learn something for a change, rather
than look like a complete idiot while your ass is being handed to you.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134081

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-08-18 21:01 -0400
Message-ID<pR__G.354093$PN2.133602@fx48.iad>
In reply to#134077
On 2020-08-18 11:02, nospam wrote:

> the only thing the os does is provide a list of documents to the app
> upon launch, if any, which occurs in both classic mac os and mac os x.
> 
> at that point, it's up to the app how to handle it. prefs files would
> need to be special cased, versus simply opening a normal user document.


While an application is free to have its preferences fiels anywhere it
wants, generally operating systems provide some standards of where
preferences should be stored. (and in the case of IOS, the app is more
dansboxed so has to follow standards).

OS-X has a confusing set of locations.
 in ~/Library, some apps have their own directory, some in Application
Support, some in Preferences.  And then there are the system-wide
equivalents in /Library and /System/Library.

This matters when you want to reset an application, or delete it and
have no idea where its preferences are stored. (gets worse with Adobe
CS6 where the licence is stored under another company's name).


Apple has done a pretty good job of setting the standard of
/Applications for where application "files" should be stored. But
preferences are less obvious.

No OS ios perfect. I this Windows had done he registry thing which was
very organized but a hell to manage.

Unix has no standard, so many apps stored their prfs in ~/.something to
make them hidden.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134082

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-08-19 01:30 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrjp05h.2kks.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#134081
In message <pR__G.354093$PN2.133602@fx48.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> Apple has done a pretty good job of setting the standard of
> /Applications for where application "files" should be stored. But
> preferences are less obvious.

No, Preferences are stored in the Preferences folder, either inside the
Library folder top level, or inside a Container folder in the Library.

> Unix has no standard, so many apps stored their prfs in ~/.something to
> make them hidden.

No Mac apps, no.


-- 
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Brain, but 'Snowball for Windows'?"

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