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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #133949 > unrolled thread

Trivia Pixar computers

Started byJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
First post2020-08-10 04:52 -0400
Last post2020-08-17 08:59 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 146 — 10 participants

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  Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-10 04:52 -0400
    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-10 08:02 -0400
      Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-11 02:49 -0400
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-11 07:13 +0000
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-11 14:04 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-11 20:39 +0000
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-11 19:22 -0400
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-11 09:39 -0400
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-11 09:50 -0700
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-11 14:08 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-11 20:37 +0000
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-11 17:02 -0700
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-12 12:27 +0000
                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-12 08:09 -0700
                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-12 21:29 +0000
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-12 14:34 -0700
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 20:25 -0400
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-12 22:23 -0400
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 22:43 -0400
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-12 19:52 -0700
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-13 04:26 +0000
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-13 02:44 -0400
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-13 08:10 +0000
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-13 19:15 -0400
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-13 19:47 -0400
                                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-14 00:33 +0000
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-14 03:40 +0000
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Wolffan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2020-08-17 08:45 -0400
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-13 09:25 -0400
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-13 13:39 -0700
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-13 19:19 -0400
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-13 23:21 +0000
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-13 19:47 -0400
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-14 00:35 +0000
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-14 03:43 +0000
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-13 04:24 +0000
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-11 19:22 -0400
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-11 16:58 -0700
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-12 12:32 +0000
                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-12 08:10 -0700
                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-12 21:32 +0000
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-12 14:36 -0700
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 20:25 -0400
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-12 22:29 -0400
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 22:43 -0400
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-13 04:29 +0000
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 08:44 -0400
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-16 08:25 -0400
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-16 17:11 +0000
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-17 09:14 -0400
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-17 17:43 +0000
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-16 14:17 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-16 19:00 +0000
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-16 21:09 +0000
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-17 01:14 +0000
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-17 07:10 -0400
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-17 21:45 +0000
                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-18 11:02 -0400
                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-18 21:01 -0400
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 01:30 +0000
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-18 18:39 -0700
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 05:57 +0000
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-19 00:39 -0700
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 10:00 +0000
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 06:34 -0400
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-19 10:57 -0700
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 20:29 +0000
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 16:49 -0400
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 17:00 -0400
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-19 21:05 +0000
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-20 03:36 +0000
                                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-19 21:28 -0700
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-19 10:56 -0700
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 00:32 -0400
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Krzysztof Mitko <invalid@kmitko.at.list.dot.pl> - 2020-08-21 13:45 +0200
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-16 16:13 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-16 21:23 +0000
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-17 09:37 -0400
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-17 17:35 +0000
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-17 13:46 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-17 09:27 -0400
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-17 17:48 +0000
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-17 14:56 -0400
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-17 15:21 -0400
                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-18 18:05 -0400
                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 00:32 -0400
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-19 07:14 +0000
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 06:34 -0400
                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 05:58 -0400
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 10:11 +0000
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 16:45 -0400
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 17:00 -0400
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 18:38 -0400
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 18:58 -0400
                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 23:51 -0400
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-20 00:27 -0400
                                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-20 06:12 +0000
                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-20 08:25 +0000
                                      Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-22 21:39 -0400
                                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-22 21:55 -0400
                                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-22 23:06 -0400
                                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-22 23:48 -0400
                                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-23 22:36 -0700
                                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-23 06:22 +0000
                                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-23 04:41 -0400
                                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-23 06:42 -0400
                                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-23 11:24 +0000
                                                  Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-23 19:33 -0400
                                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-23 21:11 -0400
                                                    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-24 13:11 +0000
                                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-23 06:21 +0000
                                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-23 04:34 -0400
                                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-23 06:42 -0400
                                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-23 19:06 -0400
                                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-23 23:31 +0000
                                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-23 21:11 -0400
                                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-23 11:19 +0000
                                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-23 06:42 -0400
                        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 06:34 -0400
                          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-19 19:24 +0000
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 16:35 -0400
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-19 21:01 +0000
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 18:58 -0400
                            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-19 20:42 +0000
                              Re: Trivia Pixar computers Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2020-08-19 21:21 +0000
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-19 18:41 -0400
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-19 18:58 -0400
                                Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-20 03:31 +0000
      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-16 08:03 -0400
    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Calum <com.gmail@nospam.scottishwildcat> - 2020-08-10 14:16 +0100
      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2020-08-11 10:04 +1200
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-11 07:14 +0000
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-16 08:31 -0400
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-16 17:13 +0000
    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-10 08:20 -0700
      Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-11 03:07 -0400
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-11 17:12 -0700
          Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-12 00:59 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> - 2020-08-11 22:23 -0700
              Re: Trivia Pixar computers JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2020-08-12 19:28 -0400
                Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-12 20:25 -0400
            Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-12 12:37 +0000
    Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-16 07:54 -0400
      Re: Trivia Pixar computers Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2020-08-16 17:06 +0000
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-16 14:17 -0400
        Re: Trivia Pixar computers Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2020-08-17 08:59 -0400

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#133949 — Trivia Pixar computers

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-08-10 04:52 -0400
SubjectTrivia Pixar computers
Message-ID<7V7YG.151250$HY4.66027@fx37.iad>
Have been going back in history on computer graphcs and stumbled on the
history of Pixar


Promotional video from 1988:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhhGfdkK9Ek

Note the speed at which it rendes 1 frame for the clown or the plane. I
remember those days. Now, an iPhoen does this at over 30 frames per
socond in your hand.


Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixar

Lucasfilm, after Star Wars decided to hire some computer engineers to
help develop computer graphics im 1979.  They built computers called
"Pixar". They didn't sell well, so Lucasfilm spun it off in 1986 and
guess who bought majority? Steve Jobs for $10m dollars. (eventually
increased his stake by investing $50m) The new company was named... wait
for it.... Pixar. It remained focused on selling computers but also
developped the imaging software. (if you have watched the video above,
you will have seen they had medical, mapping and other coprporate goals,
not just movies),


The Pixar Image COmputer was very much custom designed, and they had
their own CPU chip called CHAP. They own bus "YAPBUS (Yet Another Pixad
BUS). So like DEC, they decigned all of their computers. It was high
performance for images but not muchj else.

Important: The folks at Lucasfilm/Pixar developped the concep]t of Alpha
channel for images).

The CPU was quite interesing.  As with others at the time, single core,
single execution stream. But, each instruction acted on 4 sets of values
at the same time.   You didn't add 1 to register A, you added 1,1,1,1 to
registers A B C D in one instruction.

This way, each instruction did the same to all 4 values makiing up a
pixel in an image (R B G and alpha).

So for processing images, this machines was significantly faster than a
VAX 75 which was branc new at the time.

http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/equipment/pixar-image-computer


So Steve Jobs got majority of Pixar for $10m (so total value around $20m
) in 1986. It was sold to Disney for $7.4b in 2006.


After the Pixar and Pixar II cpmpiters worked well, but sold fewer than
200 units, they abandonned hardware and focused on sofwtare in 1990.


Can't remember which software package it was, but it cane with a
diskette for RenderMan  (I think it was a Macromedia precursor to
Extreme 3D).

So Steve Jobs invested in NeXT in 1985, a computer company, and invested
in Pixar in 1986, also a computer company.

Pixar had proprioetary CPU, NeXT used a 68k CPU fom motorola. BTW, NeXT
also migrated from 68k to PowerPC.

It was when NeXt decied to focus on software that it moved to the 8086
starting in 1991 with first demo of the port in 1992 on standard PCs 80486.

NeXTSTEP was also ported to PA-RISC (HP_ and SPARC (Sun) workstations.

After purchase by Apple,  the NeXT group re-ported NeXTSTEP to the
PowerPC (remember they had moved to 486 in early 1990s). While NeXTSTEP
ran on Intel boxes,  the porting of the valious Apple frameworks (Carbon
etc) was done to NextSTEP on PowerPC only.


Note: while NeXT stopoped making its own hardware at the 486, it
continued to do NextSTEP os on x86 for a while, so suppor would have
included more recent chips.

BYUT. prior to being bought by Apple, NeXT forcused on application alyet
with OpenSTEP since it was no longer selling computers with its own OS.
So in essence, NeXTSTEP development would have stopped.

OpenSTEP was desined to run on other operating systems such as Sn
Solaris and OpenStep Enterprise for Windows NT.

So it is interesting that when Apple bought Jobs/NeXT, it had already
stoppe developping the OS NeXTSTEP.

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]


#133950

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-10 08:02 -0400
Message-ID<100820200802254050%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#133949
In article <7V7YG.151250$HY4.66027@fx37.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> 
> 
> So Steve Jobs invested in NeXT in 1985, a computer company, and invested
> in Pixar in 1986, also a computer company.

he did much more than just invest in next.

> Pixar had proprioetary CPU, NeXT used a 68k CPU fom motorola. BTW, NeXT
> also migrated from 68k to PowerPC.

no they didn't. next did not use powerpc at all until they were bought
by apple nearly a decade later.

> It was when NeXt decied to focus on software that it moved to the 8086
> starting in 1991 with first demo of the port in 1992 on standard PCs 80486.

which apple kept alive, ultimately becoming mac os intel.

> NeXTSTEP was also ported to PA-RISC (HP_ and SPARC (Sun) workstations.

that part is true.

> After purchase by Apple,  the NeXT group re-ported NeXTSTEP to the
> PowerPC (remember they had moved to 486 in early 1990s). 

nope. that was their first time porting to powerpc.

they also maintained the intel version.

> While NeXTSTEP
> ran on Intel boxes,  the porting of the valious Apple frameworks (Carbon
> etc) was done to NextSTEP on PowerPC only.

nope. mac os led a secret dual-life on intel, which was explained to
you before.

are you going to argue this all over again?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133959

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-08-11 02:49 -0400
Message-ID<kcrYG.83382$MQ.18176@fx14.iad>
In reply to#133950
On 2020-08-10 08:02, nospam wrote:

>> Pixar had proprioetary CPU, NeXT used a 68k CPU fom motorola. BTW, NeXT
>> also migrated from 68k to PowerPC.
> 
> no they didn't. next did not use powerpc at all until they were bought
> by apple nearly a decade later.

I was quoting the wikipedia entry.  It stated cl;early it stated on a
varieto to 68k, then went to PowerPC then to Intel 485 at which point it
abandonned the idea of making computers.  This was circa 1992-1993.

Remember that NeXT was started by Jobs as he left Apple I think 1985 or
1986. So they wouldn't have gone to the 8086 16 bit game controller with
segment registers used on the IBM PC.


> which apple kept alive, ultimately becoming mac os intel.

Ur isn't clear to me that "kept alive" is the correct term. The
Wikipedia articel stated that prior to being bought by Apple, NeXT had
already switched away from NeXTSTEP and forpcsed on OpenStep which was a
set of APIs sold to folks like Sun and banks etc.

So it is quite possible that the correct wording is "resurrected
NeXTSTEP" instead of "kept alive".


> nope. that was their first time porting to powerpc.

Not according to the wikipedia entry.  I beleive the last one they had
was on a PowerPC 601.  A few years in the 1990s meant a lot had changed
so not sure how much was still usable, but they would have have the boot
loader stuff already.

> they also maintained the intel version.

OS-X is a superset that includes NeXTSTEP , and components from MacOS 9
as well as new stuff for OS-X.

Maintaining/keeping the #ifdefs etc in the components that came from
NEXTSTEP is a no brainer. But that doesn't mean that all components from
the Apple side were poted to x86 at the time they were integrated into
NextSTEP to create OS-X.

It was obviously done at some point.
Consider the ability to run MacOS 9 applications in the MacOS 9
"applicatioN" that launched in OS-X. Not much sense in porting that to x86.

Consider that at the time of Intel announcement, Apple was about to pull
plug on a nukjber of APIs until there were severe grumblings from the
big developpers such as Adobe, so Apple ported them to the x86 version
(they were leftovers from MacOS days).

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133961

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-08-11 07:13 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrj4h8e.1mts.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#133959
In message <kcrYG.83382$MQ.18176@fx14.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2020-08-10 08:02, nospam wrote:
>> which apple kept alive, ultimately becoming mac os intel.

> Ur isn't clear to me that "kept alive" is the correct term.

This is because you are a FUDster idiot who cannot read. This has been
covered MANY times.

> So it is quite possible that the correct wording is "resurrected
> NeXTSTEP" instead of "kept alive".

No, this is not the case at all. NextStep became Mac OS, and Mac OS was
kept running on Intel from its inception.

> OS-X is a superset that includes NeXTSTEP , and components from MacOS 9
> as well as new stuff for OS-X.

No, First of all, there i no OS X any more, second of all there is
NOTHING from Mac OS 9 in macOS. Not a single line of code.

> Maintaining/keeping the #ifdefs etc in the components that came from
> NEXTSTEP is a no brainer. But that doesn't mean that all components from
> the Apple side were poted to x86 at the time they were integrated into
> NextSTEP to create OS-X.

This is exactly what happened, as has been explained to you numerous
times. An Intel version of the current version of OS X was maintained
from 10.0 Developer Beta right up until the switch to Intel.

You pretending this is in any way in doubt just makes you look like the
foolish FUDster you continue to be.

> It was obviously done at some point.
> Consider the ability to run MacOS 9 applications in the MacOS 9
> "applicatioN" that launched in OS-X. Not much sense in porting that to x86.

Classic was not OS X, it is was application.

-- 
Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons
	exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133970

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-08-11 14:04 -0400
Message-ID<85BYG.322992$PN2.245992@fx48.iad>
In reply to#133961
On 2020-08-11 03:13, Lewis wrote:

> No, First of all, there i no OS X any more, second of all there is
> NOTHING from Mac OS 9 in macOS. Not a single line of code.

So you are denying that initian releases of OS-X had many MacOS 9
frameworks like Carbon in them? Are you claiming that MAcOS frameworks
had always been in NeXTSTEP and didn't need to be ported to OS-X ?

> Classic was not OS X, it is was application.


Classic was invoked by OS-X when you tried to launch an application
compiled into MacOS 9 or earlier.

But OS-X also supported many Mac OS 9 frameworks natiuvely for apps
developped under Mac IS 9 and earlier and recompiled on OS-X

These frameworks did not exist under NeXTSTEP. (unles one is to beleive
your claims)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133974

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-08-11 20:39 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrj60gk.bvp.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#133970
In message <85BYG.322992$PN2.245992@fx48.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2020-08-11 03:13, Lewis wrote:

>> No, First of all, there i no OS X any more, second of all there is
>> NOTHING from Mac OS 9 in macOS. Not a single line of code.

> So you are denying that initian releases of OS-X had many MacOS 9
> frameworks like Carbon in them? Are you claiming that MAcOS frameworks
> had always been in NeXTSTEP and didn't need to be ported to OS-X ?

Please reread what I said. Re read it a couple of dozen times until
understanding finally penetrates that thick FUDskull that prevents your
brain from comprehension..


-- 
What is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before
	you, and to hear the lamentation of the women

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133977

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-11 19:22 -0400
Message-ID<110820201922050921%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#133970
In article <85BYG.322992$PN2.245992@fx48.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> But OS-X also supported many Mac OS 9 frameworks natiuvely for apps
> developped under Mac IS 9 and earlier and recompiled on OS-X

known as carbon. 

> These frameworks did not exist under NeXTSTEP. (unles one is to beleive
> your claims)

nobody said they did.

what you fail to understand is that when apple wrote carbon for
powerpc, they secretly built it and ran it on intel.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133967

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-11 09:39 -0400
Message-ID<110820200939323516%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#133959
In article <kcrYG.83382$MQ.18176@fx14.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> 
> >> Pixar had proprioetary CPU, NeXT used a 68k CPU fom motorola. BTW, NeXT
> >> also migrated from 68k to PowerPC.
> > 
> > no they didn't. next did not use powerpc at all until they were bought
> > by apple nearly a decade later.
> 
> I was quoting the wikipedia entry. 

wikipedia is not a reliable source.

> It stated cl;early it stated on a
> varieto to 68k, then went to PowerPC then to Intel 485 at which point it
> abandonned the idea of making computers.  This was circa 1992-1993.

they did not go to powerpc until apple.

> Remember that NeXT was started by Jobs as he left Apple I think 1985 or
> 1986. So they wouldn't have gone to the 8086 16 bit game controller with
> segment registers used on the IBM PC.

they went to x86 in the early 90s.

> > which apple kept alive, ultimately becoming mac os intel.
> 
> Ur isn't clear to me that "kept alive" is the correct term.

it is.

> The
> Wikipedia articel stated that prior to being bought by Apple, NeXT had
> already switched away from NeXTSTEP and forpcsed on OpenStep which was a
> set of APIs sold to folks like Sun and banks etc.

not relevant to mac os on intel.

> So it is quite possible that the correct wording is "resurrected
> NeXTSTEP" instead of "kept alive".

nope.

> > nope. that was their first time porting to powerpc.
> 
> Not according to the wikipedia entry. 

wikipedia is not a reliable source.

> I beleive the last one they had
> was on a PowerPC 601.  A few years in the 1990s meant a lot had changed
> so not sure how much was still usable, but they would have have the boot
> loader stuff already.

nope. it took a few months from when apple bought next to when they
were first able to boot openstep on a powerpc mac, and that was just
the kernel, not the entire thing.

> > they also maintained the intel version.
> 
> OS-X is a superset that includes NeXTSTEP , and components from MacOS 9
> as well as new stuff for OS-X.

no.

> Maintaining/keeping the #ifdefs etc in the components that came from
> NEXTSTEP is a no brainer. But that doesn't mean that all components from
> the Apple side were poted to x86 at the time they were integrated into
> NextSTEP to create OS-X.

just about everything was compiled on both powerpc and intel from the
start.

keep in mind, nearly everything about nextstep/openstep was rewritten
for mac os x. for example, nextstep/openstep used display postscript,
whereas mac os x used pdf. that's a shitload more than an #ifdef.

> It was obviously done at some point.
> Consider the ability to run MacOS 9 applications in the MacOS 9
> "applicatioN" that launched in OS-X. Not much sense in porting that to x86.

classic was never ported to x86.

> Consider that at the time of Intel announcement, Apple was about to pull
> plug on a nukjber of APIs until there were severe grumblings from the
> big developpers such as Adobe, so Apple ported them to the x86 version
> (they were leftovers from MacOS days).

nope.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133968

FromAlan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no>
Date2020-08-11 09:50 -0700
Message-ID<rgui9c$i0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#133967
On 2020-08-11 6:39 a.m., nospam wrote:
> In article <kcrYG.83382$MQ.18176@fx14.iad>, JF Mezei
> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> 
>>
>>>> Pixar had proprioetary CPU, NeXT used a 68k CPU fom motorola. BTW, NeXT
>>>> also migrated from 68k to PowerPC.
>>>
>>> no they didn't. next did not use powerpc at all until they were bought
>>> by apple nearly a decade later.
>>
>> I was quoting the wikipedia entry.
> 
> wikipedia is not a reliable source.
> 
>> It stated cl;early it stated on a
>> varieto to 68k, then went to PowerPC then to Intel 485 at which point it
>> abandonned the idea of making computers.  This was circa 1992-1993.
> 
> they did not go to powerpc until apple.
> 
>> Remember that NeXT was started by Jobs as he left Apple I think 1985 or
>> 1986. So they wouldn't have gone to the 8086 16 bit game controller with
>> segment registers used on the IBM PC.
> 
> they went to x86 in the early 90s.
> 
>>> which apple kept alive, ultimately becoming mac os intel.
>>
>> Ur isn't clear to me that "kept alive" is the correct term.
> 
> it is.
> 
>> The
>> Wikipedia articel stated that prior to being bought by Apple, NeXT had
>> already switched away from NeXTSTEP and forpcsed on OpenStep which was a
>> set of APIs sold to folks like Sun and banks etc.
> 
> not relevant to mac os on intel.
> 
>> So it is quite possible that the correct wording is "resurrected
>> NeXTSTEP" instead of "kept alive".
> 
> nope.
> 
>>> nope. that was their first time porting to powerpc.
>>
>> Not according to the wikipedia entry.
> 
> wikipedia is not a reliable source.
> 
>> I beleive the last one they had
>> was on a PowerPC 601.  A few years in the 1990s meant a lot had changed
>> so not sure how much was still usable, but they would have have the boot
>> loader stuff already.
> 
> nope. it took a few months from when apple bought next to when they
> were first able to boot openstep on a powerpc mac, and that was just
> the kernel, not the entire thing.

NeXT did begin a project on PowerPC. They just never finished it.

'NeXT's long-term plan was to migrate to the emerging high-performance 
industry standard Reduced Instruction Set Computing (RISC) architecture, 
with the NeXT RISC Workstation (NRW). Initially the NRW was to be based 
on the Motorola 88110 processor, but due to a lack of confidence in 
Motorola's commitment to the 88000-series architecture in the time 
leading up to the AIM alliance's transition to PowerPC, it was later 
redesigned around dual PowerPC 601s.[36][37] NeXT produced some 
motherboards and enclosures, but exited the hardware business before 
full production.'

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXT#Second_generation>

And before you go back to "wikipedia is not reliable"

<http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/index.php?topic=1271.0>

If they had gotten as far as producing motherboards, then there were 
clearly wire-wrap versions that they had already had running and there 
would have been PowerPC versions of the OS.

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#133971

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-08-11 14:08 -0400
Message-ID<78BYG.322993$PN2.289556@fx48.iad>
In reply to#133968
On 2020-08-11 12:50, Alan Baker wrote:

> NeXT did begin a project on PowerPC. They just never finished it.

Conside that by the time they got prototypes built, they would have
already done much of the porting effort to allow first boot.

As both 68k and powerPc were big endian, the port would have been fairly
straightforward, juust as it was for Apple.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133973

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-08-11 20:37 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrj60br.bvp.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#133968
In message <rgui9c$i0$1@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
> If they had gotten as far as producing motherboards, then there were 
> clearly wire-wrap versions that they had already had running and there 
> would have been PowerPC versions of the OS.

Would have been is not "were" and if is not "was".


-- 
>You are forgetting something: the Nazgul are immune to non-magical
>    weapons.
>
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
	magic."

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133980

FromAlan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no>
Date2020-08-11 17:02 -0700
Message-ID<rgvbic$lvl$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#133973
On 2020-08-11 1:37 p.m., Lewis wrote:
> In message <rgui9c$i0$1@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>> If they had gotten as far as producing motherboards, then there were
>> clearly wire-wrap versions that they had already had running and there
>> would have been PowerPC versions of the OS.
> 
> Would have been is not "were" and if is not "was".
> 
> 

If there were pre-production motherboards (there were)...

...then there cleary was a port of the OS that ran on earlier prototype 
hardware.

That's just a fact.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133987

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-08-12 12:27 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrj7o1n.11fe.g.kreme@www.local>
In reply to#133980
In message <rgvbic$lvl$2@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
> On 2020-08-11 1:37 p.m., Lewis wrote:
>> In message <rgui9c$i0$1@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>> If they had gotten as far as producing motherboards, then there were
>>> clearly wire-wrap versions that they had already had running and there
>>> would have been PowerPC versions of the OS.
>> 
>> Would have been is not "were" and if is not "was".
>> 
>> 

> If there were pre-production motherboards (there were)...

> ...then there cleary was a port of the OS that ran on earlier prototype 
> hardware.

> That's just a fact.

It's misleading since ther was never any sort of release for either the boards
or the OS.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#133992

FromAlan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no>
Date2020-08-12 08:09 -0700
Message-ID<rh10mv$65c$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#133987
On 2020-08-12 5:27 a.m., Lewis wrote:
> In message <rgvbic$lvl$2@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>> On 2020-08-11 1:37 p.m., Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <rgui9c$i0$1@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>>> If they had gotten as far as producing motherboards, then there were
>>>> clearly wire-wrap versions that they had already had running and there
>>>> would have been PowerPC versions of the OS.
>>>
>>> Would have been is not "were" and if is not "was".
>>>
>>>
> 
>> If there were pre-production motherboards (there were)...
> 
>> ...then there cleary was a port of the OS that ran on earlier prototype
>> hardware.
> 
>> That's just a fact.
> 
> It's misleading since ther was never any sort of release for either the boards
> or the OS.
> 

Not when the discussion is whether or not Apple had to port NextSTEP to 
PowerPC from square one.

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#133998

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2020-08-12 21:29 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrj8nql.2g0s.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>
In reply to#133992
In message <rh10mv$65c$1@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
> On 2020-08-12 5:27 a.m., Lewis wrote:
>> In message <rgvbic$lvl$2@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>> On 2020-08-11 1:37 p.m., Lewis wrote:
>>>> In message <rgui9c$i0$1@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>>>> If they had gotten as far as producing motherboards, then there were
>>>>> clearly wire-wrap versions that they had already had running and there
>>>>> would have been PowerPC versions of the OS.
>>>>
>>>> Would have been is not "were" and if is not "was".
>>>>
>>>>
>> 
>>> If there were pre-production motherboards (there were)...
>> 
>>> ...then there cleary was a port of the OS that ran on earlier prototype
>>> hardware.
>> 
>>> That's just a fact.
>> 
>> It's misleading since ther was never any sort of release for either the boards
>> or the OS.
>> 

> Not when the discussion is whether or not Apple had to port NextSTEP to 
> PowerPC from square one.

They did though.


-- 
So, the apocalypse is happening and whatever and this little piggy comes all
this way, but you won’t accept my help because I’m a woman?
Pig: Quite right.

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#134000

FromAlan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no>
Date2020-08-12 14:34 -0700
Message-ID<rh1na0$ipe$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#133998
On 2020-08-12 2:29 p.m., Lewis wrote:
> In message <rh10mv$65c$1@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>> On 2020-08-12 5:27 a.m., Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <rgvbic$lvl$2@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>>> On 2020-08-11 1:37 p.m., Lewis wrote:
>>>>> In message <rgui9c$i0$1@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
>>>>>> If they had gotten as far as producing motherboards, then there were
>>>>>> clearly wire-wrap versions that they had already had running and there
>>>>>> would have been PowerPC versions of the OS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would have been is not "were" and if is not "was".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>> If there were pre-production motherboards (there were)...
>>>
>>>> ...then there cleary was a port of the OS that ran on earlier prototype
>>>> hardware.
>>>
>>>> That's just a fact.
>>>
>>> It's misleading since ther was never any sort of release for either the boards
>>> or the OS.
>>>
> 
>> Not when the discussion is whether or not Apple had to port NextSTEP to
>> PowerPC from square one.
> 
> They did though.

Really?

You were privy to the inner workings of Apple's OS team just post the 
purchase of NeXT, were you?

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#134009

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-12 20:25 -0400
Message-ID<120820202025235616%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#134000
In article <rh1na0$ipe$1@dont-email.me>, Alan Baker
<notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:

> > 
> >> Not when the discussion is whether or not Apple had to port NextSTEP to
> >> PowerPC from square one.
> > 
> > They did though.
> 
> Really?

really.

> You were privy to the inner workings of Apple's OS team just post the 
> purchase of NeXT, were you?

were you?

not that it matters, since apple publicly stated that it took a few
months to boot the nextstep/openstep kernel on powermacs.

they also rewrote most of it, including replacing display postscript
with pdf.

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#134012

FromJF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date2020-08-12 22:23 -0400
Message-ID<vu1ZG.124933$d95.35328@fx06.iad>
In reply to#134009
On 2020-08-12 20:25, nospam wrote:

> they also rewrote most of it, including replacing display postscript
> with pdf.


This was a global change. Adobe made it hard for companies to continue
to include display postcript, so many operating systems had to pull the
software from their OS.  Happened on VMS as well.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134014

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2020-08-12 22:43 -0400
Message-ID<120820202243222390%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#134012
In article <vu1ZG.124933$d95.35328@fx06.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> 
> > they also rewrote most of it, including replacing display postscript
> > with pdf.
> 
> 
> This was a global change. 

it still needed to be done

> Adobe made it hard for companies to continue
> to include display postcript, so many operating systems had to pull the
> software from their OS.  Happened on VMS as well.

nope. the problem was the price.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#134016

FromAlan Baker <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no>
Date2020-08-12 19:52 -0700
Message-ID<rh29u7$iaa$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#134009
On 2020-08-12 5:25 p.m., nospam wrote:
> In article <rh1na0$ipe$1@dont-email.me>, Alan Baker
> <notonyourlife@no.no.no.no> wrote:
> 
>>>
>>>> Not when the discussion is whether or not Apple had to port NextSTEP to
>>>> PowerPC from square one.
>>>
>>> They did though.
>>
>> Really?
> 
> really.
> 
>> You were privy to the inner workings of Apple's OS team just post the
>> purchase of NeXT, were you?
> 
> were you?
> 
> not that it matters, since apple publicly stated that it took a few
> months to boot the nextstep/openstep kernel on powermacs.

A few months... ...right.

That suggests that there was a lot of knowledge about how to do the port.

> 
> they also rewrote most of it, including replacing display postscript
> with pdf.
PDF... ...which is a close cousing of Postscript.

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